(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are considered FCS Independents in '22 and then count as FBS in '23. It is a two-year transition and you typically do not see schools in that first year of the transition play a full FBS schedule.

In the case of Texas State, they were FCS Independents (in the eyes of the NCAA) and played a Southland schedule in 2011. They played a WAC (FBS) schedule in 2012.

What may happen... James Madison is trying to shrink the transition down a year and get a waiver to be a FBS counter in '22 and play a Sun Belt schedule (albeit ineligible for postseason opportunities). By all accounts, it looks like it is a done deal.

I am personally optimistic (though not counting on it) that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are able to do similar. That the schools are able to get eight C-USA games (even if it means the Sam v JaxSt game is a non-league game) and for Sam's sake, they get 2 of 3 soon to be leaving CUSA schools from Texas (UNT, Rice & UTSA) on the schedule. It would help with some momentum behind the move to FBS!

Again, not optimistic. While there are murmurs from JMU camp, not seeing it from Sam/Jax State

(12-30-2021 01:19 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  I'm guessing that NMSU & Liberty will join for 2022.

We already have Liberty on our schedule so that will free up an OOC spot for us. Might be a good year to challenge a crappy P5 take their money and whip them.

(01-04-2022 05:12 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are considered FCS Independents in '22 and then count as FBS in '23. It is a two-year transition and you typically do not see schools in that first year of the transition play a full FBS schedule.

In the case of Texas State, they were FCS Independents (in the eyes of the NCAA) and played a Southland schedule in 2011. They played a WAC (FBS) schedule in 2012.

What may happen... James Madison is trying to shrink the transition down a year and get a waiver to be a FBS counter in '22 and play a Sun Belt schedule (albeit ineligible for postseason opportunities). By all accounts, it looks like it is a done deal.

I am personally optimistic (though not counting on it) that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are able to do similar. That the schools are able to get eight C-USA games (even if it means the Sam v JaxSt game is a non-league game) and for Sam's sake, they get 2 of 3 soon to be leaving CUSA schools from Texas (UNT, Rice & UTSA) on the schedule. It would help with some momentum behind the move to FBS!

Again, not optimistic. While there are murmurs from JMU camp, not seeing it from Sam/Jax State

What would be the basis for a waiver (for any of the three)?

I don't see what would justify waiving that rule that wouldn't have applied to every school that's ever made that transition.

(01-04-2022 09:27 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:12 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are considered FCS Independents in '22 and then count as FBS in '23. It is a two-year transition and you typically do not see schools in that first year of the transition play a full FBS schedule.

In the case of Texas State, they were FCS Independents (in the eyes of the NCAA) and played a Southland schedule in 2011. They played a WAC (FBS) schedule in 2012.

What may happen... James Madison is trying to shrink the transition down a year and get a waiver to be a FBS counter in '22 and play a Sun Belt schedule (albeit ineligible for postseason opportunities). By all accounts, it looks like it is a done deal.

I am personally optimistic (though not counting on it) that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are able to do similar. That the schools are able to get eight C-USA games (even if it means the Sam v JaxSt game is a non-league game) and for Sam's sake, they get 2 of 3 soon to be leaving CUSA schools from Texas (UNT, Rice & UTSA) on the schedule. It would help with some momentum behind the move to FBS!

Again, not optimistic. While there are murmurs from JMU camp, not seeing it from Sam/Jax State

What would be the basis for a waiver (for any of the three)?

I don't see what would justify waiving that rule that wouldn't have applied to every school that's ever made that transition.

For James Madison it's to get out the Colonial faster and to expedite student athletes' ability to compete for conference championships since the Colonial runs their conference like communists run their countries. As soon as James Madison announced their intentions to move up, the Colonial implemented their bylaw that automatically removes members from both hosting postseason conference competitions and from competing in those competitions.

As bad as the Colonial is, the Southland was much more immature to Sam Houston and three other schools when they announced they were headed to the WAC. The Southland decided to immediately expel Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, Abilene Christian, and Lamar at the conclusion of the current year they were competing. The WAC expedited their memberships a year early.

Still, the Atlantic Sun for Jacksonville State and the WAC for Sam Houston aren't running their conferences like the Colonial does. They are full participating members with all the rights and privileges thereof until they come to CUSA in 2023.

Feel bad for JMU. They were like the frog that felt comfortable sitting in a pot on a stove while it was still at low heat before being boiled to death. That's how the Colonial operates. Anyone that chooses to go to the Colonial now has no ambition of being better.

(01-04-2022 09:47 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 09:27 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:12 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are considered FCS Independents in '22 and then count as FBS in '23. It is a two-year transition and you typically do not see schools in that first year of the transition play a full FBS schedule.

In the case of Texas State, they were FCS Independents (in the eyes of the NCAA) and played a Southland schedule in 2011. They played a WAC (FBS) schedule in 2012.

What may happen... James Madison is trying to shrink the transition down a year and get a waiver to be a FBS counter in '22 and play a Sun Belt schedule (albeit ineligible for postseason opportunities). By all accounts, it looks like it is a done deal.

I am personally optimistic (though not counting on it) that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are able to do similar. That the schools are able to get eight C-USA games (even if it means the Sam v JaxSt game is a non-league game) and for Sam's sake, they get 2 of 3 soon to be leaving CUSA schools from Texas (UNT, Rice & UTSA) on the schedule. It would help with some momentum behind the move to FBS!

Again, not optimistic. While there are murmurs from JMU camp, not seeing it from Sam/Jax State

What would be the basis for a waiver (for any of the three)?

I don't see what would justify waiving that rule that wouldn't have applied to every school that's ever made that transition.

For James Madison it's to get out the Colonial faster and to expedite student athletes' ability to compete for conference championships since the Colonial runs their conference like communists run their countries. As soon as James Madison announced their intentions to move up, the Colonial implemented their bylaw that automatically removes members from both hosting postseason conference competitions and from competing in those competitions.

As bad as the Colonial is, the Southland was much more immature to Sam Houston and three other schools when they announced they were headed to the WAC. The Southland decided to immediately expel Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, Abilene Christian, and Lamar at the conclusion of the current year they were competing. The WAC expedited their memberships a year early.

Still, the Atlantic Sun for Jacksonville State and the WAC for Sam Houston aren't running their conferences like the Colonial does. They are full participating members with all the rights and privileges thereof until they come to CUSA in 2023.

Feel bad for JMU. They were like the frog that felt comfortable sitting in a pot on a stove while it was still at low heat before being boiled to death. That's how the Colonial operates. Anyone that chooses to go to the Colonial now has no ambition of being better.

I get why JMU wants to speed the process up, I just don't see why anyone else would (enough to justify a waiver).

(01-04-2022 09:55 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 09:47 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 09:27 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:12 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are considered FCS Independents in '22 and then count as FBS in '23. It is a two-year transition and you typically do not see schools in that first year of the transition play a full FBS schedule.

In the case of Texas State, they were FCS Independents (in the eyes of the NCAA) and played a Southland schedule in 2011. They played a WAC (FBS) schedule in 2012.

What may happen... James Madison is trying to shrink the transition down a year and get a waiver to be a FBS counter in '22 and play a Sun Belt schedule (albeit ineligible for postseason opportunities). By all accounts, it looks like it is a done deal.

I am personally optimistic (though not counting on it) that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are able to do similar. That the schools are able to get eight C-USA games (even if it means the Sam v JaxSt game is a non-league game) and for Sam's sake, they get 2 of 3 soon to be leaving CUSA schools from Texas (UNT, Rice & UTSA) on the schedule. It would help with some momentum behind the move to FBS!

Again, not optimistic. While there are murmurs from JMU camp, not seeing it from Sam/Jax State

What would be the basis for a waiver (for any of the three)?

I don't see what would justify waiving that rule that wouldn't have applied to every school that's ever made that transition.

For James Madison it's to get out the Colonial faster and to expedite student athletes' ability to compete for conference championships since the Colonial runs their conference like communists run their countries. As soon as James Madison announced their intentions to move up, the Colonial implemented their bylaw that automatically removes members from both hosting postseason conference competitions and from competing in those competitions.

As bad as the Colonial is, the Southland was much more immature to Sam Houston and three other schools when they announced they were headed to the WAC. The Southland decided to immediately expel Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, Abilene Christian, and Lamar at the conclusion of the current year they were competing. The WAC expedited their memberships a year early.

Still, the Atlantic Sun for Jacksonville State and the WAC for Sam Houston aren't running their conferences like the Colonial does. They are full participating members with all the rights and privileges thereof until they come to CUSA in 2023.

Feel bad for JMU. They were like the frog that felt comfortable sitting in a pot on a stove while it was still at low heat before being boiled to death. That's how the Colonial operates. Anyone that chooses to go to the Colonial now has no ambition of being better.

I get why JMU wants to speed the process up, I just don't see why anyone else would (enough to justify a waiver).

I don't think that Jacksonville State or Sam Houston are making a conscious effort to get a waiver. They don't really need to. With the six future AAC members staying to 2023, we won't even need a waiver for the league for falling below 8 full members.

From Craig Haley

(01-04-2022 05:12 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are considered FCS Independents in '22 and then count as FBS in '23. It is a two-year transition and you typically do not see schools in that first year of the transition play a full FBS schedule.

In the case of Texas State, they were FCS Independents (in the eyes of the NCAA) and played a Southland schedule in 2011. They played a WAC (FBS) schedule in 2012.

What may happen... James Madison is trying to shrink the transition down a year and get a waiver to be a FBS counter in '22 and play a Sun Belt schedule (albeit ineligible for postseason opportunities). By all accounts, it looks like it is a done deal.

I am personally optimistic (though not counting on it) that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are able to do similar. That the schools are able to get eight C-USA games (even if it means the Sam v JaxSt game is a non-league game) and for Sam's sake, they get 2 of 3 soon to be leaving CUSA schools from Texas (UNT, Rice & UTSA) on the schedule. It would help with some momentum behind the move to FBS!

Again, not optimistic. While there are murmurs from JMU camp, not seeing it from Sam/Jax State

On the first thing I bolded, UTSA started our football program in 2011, playing an FCS schedule. We then also played an FBS WAC schedule in 2012.

On the second thing I bolded, I don't think there's any chance for you to play any of the Texas schools in 2022 who are leaving C-USA. Our 2022 OOC schedules are already set...

UNT plays SMU, Texas Southern, at UNLV, and at Memphis.
Rice plays at USC, McNeese, Louisiana, and at Houston.
UTSA plays Houston, at Army, at Texas, and Texas Southern.

UTSA might have the most brutal first 3 games in the nation next year btw, and I think we'd do well to start 1-2.

(01-05-2022 08:49 AM)Volkmar Wrote:  UTSA might have the most brutal first 3 games in the nation next year btw, and I think we'd do well to start 1-2.

We're starting with Baylor, Clemson, and SFA. So at least we're working our FCS game in there (and we took half their coaching staff).

(01-05-2022 08:49 AM)Volkmar Wrote:  On the first thing I bolded, UTSA started our football program in 2011, playing an FCS schedule. We then also played an FBS WAC schedule in 2012.

I referenced Texas State, not UTSA...

(01-05-2022 08:49 AM)Volkmar Wrote:  On the second thing I bolded, I don't think there's any chance for you to play any of the Texas schools in 2022 who are leaving C-USA. Our 2022 OOC schedules are already set...

UNT plays SMU, Texas Southern, at UNLV, and at Memphis.
Rice plays at USC, McNeese, Louisiana, and at Houston.
UTSA plays Houston, at Army, at Texas, and Texas Southern.

UTSA might have the most brutal first 3 games in the nation next year btw, and I think we'd do well to start 1-2.

My reference was not to playing these schools as "out of conference" games but "in conference" games. James Madison is playing a Sun Belt schedule in '22 according to everyone you ask. I was saying hypothetically if Sam Houston did the same, it would be great to play the departing Texas schools (UNT, Rice and UTSA).

It is pretty clear to me at this point that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are not intending to file a waiver, follow JMU into cutting down the transition period. Unlike JMU, both Sam and JaxSt have no reason to do so.

(01-05-2022 01:02 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-05-2022 08:49 AM)Volkmar Wrote:  On the first thing I bolded, UTSA started our football program in 2011, playing an FCS schedule. We then also played an FBS WAC schedule in 2012.

I referenced Texas State, not UTSA...

(01-05-2022 08:49 AM)Volkmar Wrote:  On the second thing I bolded, I don't think there's any chance for you to play any of the Texas schools in 2022 who are leaving C-USA. Our 2022 OOC schedules are already set...

UNT plays SMU, Texas Southern, at UNLV, and at Memphis.
Rice plays at USC, McNeese, Louisiana, and at Houston.
UTSA plays Houston, at Army, at Texas, and Texas Southern.

UTSA might have the most brutal first 3 games in the nation next year btw, and I think we'd do well to start 1-2.

My reference was not to playing these schools as "out of conference" games but "in conference" games. James Madison is playing a Sun Belt schedule in '22 according to everyone you ask. I was saying hypothetically if Sam Houston did the same, it would be great to play the departing Texas schools (UNT, Rice and UTSA).

It is pretty clear to me at this point that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are not intending to file a waiver, follow JMU into cutting down the transition period. Unlike JMU, both Sam and JaxSt have no reason to do so.

I'm aware that you referenced Texas State. The point of that part of my comment was simply to say that it was similar for UTSA, of course aside from Texas State already having had football for over a century when we finally had our first season.

On the second thing, I apologize for misunderstanding what you were saying.

(01-04-2022 09:55 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 09:47 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 09:27 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:12 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are considered FCS Independents in '22 and then count as FBS in '23. It is a two-year transition and you typically do not see schools in that first year of the transition play a full FBS schedule.

In the case of Texas State, they were FCS Independents (in the eyes of the NCAA) and played a Southland schedule in 2011. They played a WAC (FBS) schedule in 2012.

What may happen... James Madison is trying to shrink the transition down a year and get a waiver to be a FBS counter in '22 and play a Sun Belt schedule (albeit ineligible for postseason opportunities). By all accounts, it looks like it is a done deal.

I am personally optimistic (though not counting on it) that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State are able to do similar. That the schools are able to get eight C-USA games (even if it means the Sam v JaxSt game is a non-league game) and for Sam's sake, they get 2 of 3 soon to be leaving CUSA schools from Texas (UNT, Rice & UTSA) on the schedule. It would help with some momentum behind the move to FBS!

Again, not optimistic. While there are murmurs from JMU camp, not seeing it from Sam/Jax State

What would be the basis for a waiver (for any of the three)?

I don't see what would justify waiving that rule that wouldn't have applied to every school that's ever made that transition.

For James Madison it's to get out the Colonial faster and to expedite student athletes' ability to compete for conference championships since the Colonial runs their conference like communists run their countries. As soon as James Madison announced their intentions to move up, the Colonial implemented their bylaw that automatically removes members from both hosting postseason conference competitions and from competing in those competitions.

As bad as the Colonial is, the Southland was much more immature to Sam Houston and three other schools when they announced they were headed to the WAC. The Southland decided to immediately expel Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, Abilene Christian, and Lamar at the conclusion of the current year they were competing. The WAC expedited their memberships a year early.

Still, the Atlantic Sun for Jacksonville State and the WAC for Sam Houston aren't running their conferences like the Colonial does. They are full participating members with all the rights and privileges thereof until they come to CUSA in 2023.

Feel bad for JMU. They were like the frog that felt comfortable sitting in a pot on a stove while it was still at low heat before being boiled to death. That's how the Colonial operates. Anyone that chooses to go to the Colonial now has no ambition of being better.

I get why JMU wants to speed the process up, I just don't see why anyone else would (enough to justify a waiver).

If the team has used covid to get up to 85 schollies (see JMU) then essentially they are already fbs.

Update from Arkansas State AD on decisions, discussions related to the new schools coming into Sun Belt from CUSA for ‘22…

“That is a discussion that has been on-going with my colleagues in the Sun Belt,’’ said Tom Bowen, Arkansas State’s vice chancellor for intercollegiate athletics. “The athletic directors and I have been trading a lot of calls and text messages to prepare for a meeting on Jan. 25 and I think that will be the priority and topic of the discussion. To talk about what does that mean, how does that work, what are the options, what are all of the logistics.

“I have a lot more questions than I have opinions right now.”

https://247sports.com/college/arkansas-s...179987610/

(01-04-2022 11:47 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(12-30-2021 12:06 PM)whupemall Wrote:  Still don't have anything from an official source, but the latest rumor is, JSU will be playing an ASUN schedule next fall. That would rule out any chance of us (and probably SHSU) joining early with an NCAA waiver (a la JMU to the Sun Belt).

It doesn't answer too many questions about the rest of the CUSA schedules, but at least you know we're (probably) off the table for 2022. JSU at least will probably have some open slots available, so we could possibly help fill some of the vacated games, but we'd count as an FCS opponent, so some teams wouldn't have room to give for a sub-FBS team.

I thought all of the transitioning schools would count as FBS on our schedules.

It depends where they are in the transition to FBS. JMU has petitioned for (and I believe gotten) a waiver from the NCAA to count a second year transition based on scholarship numbers (aided by COVID stayovers) and the 2nd year transition schools count as FBS opponents. I haven't heard anything about SHSU or JSU requesting that waiver.

(01-07-2022 08:26 AM)Luckyshot Wrote:  It depends where they are in the transition to FBS. JMU has petitioned for (and I believe gotten) a waiver from the NCAA to count a second year transition based on scholarship numbers (aided by COVID stayovers) and the 2nd year transition schools count as FBS opponents. I haven't heard anything about SHSU or JSU requesting that waiver.

Let's be perfectly clear - Sam Houston and Jacksonville State likely have similar scholarship-related situations due to COVID as well. And with how things work with the transfer portal and the transition on top of the COVID eligibility situation, have great opportunities to balance out the classes and adjust things.

This James Madison situation has nothing to do with scholarships and everything to do with the Colonial's by-laws regarding automatic bids, postseason participation in league tournaments for non-football sports. JMU needs a landing platform for football because if they just leave to the Sun Belt for other sports, the Colonial won't give them the games to fill out a schedule for football. The Sun Belt schools need JMU to be a FBS counter as many of them already have a FCS game on the slate.

Let's not compare apples to oranges without realizing the true root for JMU's move is a three-letter acronym, C-A-A-.

(01-07-2022 10:38 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-07-2022 08:26 AM)Luckyshot Wrote:  It depends where they are in the transition to FBS. JMU has petitioned for (and I believe gotten) a waiver from the NCAA to count a second year transition based on scholarship numbers (aided by COVID stayovers) and the 2nd year transition schools count as FBS opponents. I haven't heard anything about SHSU or JSU requesting that waiver.

Let's be perfectly clear - Sam Houston and Jacksonville State likely have similar scholarship-related situations due to COVID as well. And with how things work with the transfer portal and the transition on top of the COVID eligibility situation, have great opportunities to balance out the classes and adjust things.

This James Madison situation has nothing to do with scholarships and everything to do with the Colonial's by-laws regarding automatic bids, postseason participation in league tournaments for non-football sports. JMU needs a landing platform for football because if they just leave to the Sun Belt for other sports, the Colonial won't give them the games to fill out a schedule for football. The Sun Belt schools need JMU to be a FBS counter as many of them already have a FCS game on the slate.

Let's not compare apples to oranges without realizing the true root for JMU's move is a three-letter acronym, C-A-A-.

Which is still irrelevant as far as the NCAA ought to care in terms of issuing waivers.

(12-30-2021 10:02 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Not a big deal to have an 11 team conference for one year. The AAC has done it since UConn left and will do it in 2022 again. The MAC did with a waiver for a few years. Totally inconsequential.

B1G did it for a long time after Penn State joined

(01-07-2022 11:33 AM)Cardiff Wrote:  

(12-30-2021 10:02 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Not a big deal to have an 11 team conference for one year. The AAC has done it since UConn left and will do it in 2022 again. The MAC did with a waiver for a few years. Totally inconsequential.

B1G did it for a long time after Penn State joined

It's doable. Pretty sucky number, but you can make it work if you have to (like we did for 2 years with 13).

But boy is it better if you don't have to.

I'm really hoping these efforts to leave early don't work out.

(01-07-2022 11:16 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(01-07-2022 10:38 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(01-07-2022 08:26 AM)Luckyshot Wrote:  It depends where they are in the transition to FBS. JMU has petitioned for (and I believe gotten) a waiver from the NCAA to count a second year transition based on scholarship numbers (aided by COVID stayovers) and the 2nd year transition schools count as FBS opponents. I haven't heard anything about SHSU or JSU requesting that waiver.

Let's be perfectly clear - Sam Houston and Jacksonville State likely have similar scholarship-related situations due to COVID as well. And with how things work with the transfer portal and the transition on top of the COVID eligibility situation, have great opportunities to balance out the classes and adjust things.

This James Madison situation has nothing to do with scholarships and everything to do with the Colonial's by-laws regarding automatic bids, postseason participation in league tournaments for non-football sports. JMU needs a landing platform for football because if they just leave to the Sun Belt for other sports, the Colonial won't give them the games to fill out a schedule for football. The Sun Belt schools need JMU to be a FBS counter as many of them already have a FCS game on the slate.

Let's not compare apples to oranges without realizing the true root for JMU's move is a three-letter acronym, C-A-A-.

Which is still irrelevant as far as the NCAA ought to care in terms of issuing waivers.

Which goes back to my last sentence. JSU and SHSU would have to request the waiver. I haven't heard that they have, but that might just be that the JMU situation is talked about more due to the CAA situation that Texas Terror brought up? (To be clear, I was aware of that, but didn't think it was needed to answer the question OsageJ asked.)

For 2023, 2024, and 2025 I wonder if some of the excess opponents Liberty and NMSU have lined up would be ok with taking Jacksonville St or SHSU instead?