(11-11-2021 06:09 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote:  After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.

Not a chance that we stayed guys, I'm sorry but that conference is shite. It is honestly probably better than it was, with the worst teams going to the AAC, but only slightly better in aggregate even with liberty. Sunbelt is still stronger and better option. ESPN, more money and exposure, better competition.

Better option in football. In all sports combined, I have analysis showing CUSA's 9 teams rate better in all sports combined than the Sun Belt and MAC, even though fairly close. The conference that lost the most in this whole thing was the AAC.

(11-11-2021 05:28 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 05:13 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  I don't believe it. CUSA was going after JMU and Liberty until Marshall and ODU decided to go to the Sun Belt with JMU. It makes perfect sense. The SB has a nice east presence and a good TV deal with ESPN. Who knows what the next TV deal would look like even if Marshall, ODU, JMU and Liberty were a part of the conference. Too much uncertainty as opposed to a stable conference and TV deal.

*shrug* Believe whatever you want.

No worries, we will.

(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote:  After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.

Yes but instead of being proactive and trying to get ahead of things Judy was reactive. It is sad because the scenario you describe could have happened with a better conference commissioner at the helm.

(11-11-2021 05:52 PM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 05:45 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  I'm fully aware of what actually happened, and yes, Liberty joined after Marshall and ODU took JMU to the Sun Belt. But I'm also very aware of discussions that were going on before any of those moves were official, and Liberty and JMU were linked to CUSA as there were active discussions about bringing them in. Marshall and ODU both strongly supported bring in both institutions. Unfortunately those discussions did not bear fruit, and lead to Marshall and ODU packing their bags for the Sun Belt.

Then who was against it? And did that same school or schools vote yes after everyone left?

I was never told who specifically who was against it. Just some concerns about Liberty was expressed for the usual reasons, and concerns about the conference becoming too east centric. Some apparently felt since the west had lost the most to the AAC that most new additions should come from the west also. As to how the voting later went, Marshall was not a part of that as we had already lost our rights to voice our opinions due to leaving for the Sun Belt. So I'm not sure how the vote went, and how the discussion took place. That said, clearly some of the prior opposition had to have switched their votes/views in order for Liberty to be voted in.

(11-11-2021 06:12 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:04 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 05:48 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  Basically wanting a travel partner for UTEP (NMSU) was too much for Marshall. Funny cuz Tarleton St was mentioned after Marshall had left along with McNeese St. Neither of who are in or expected to be in.

UTEP's needs, unfortunately, did not rate very high on the factors that went into Marshall and ODU's decisions. Marshall and ODU had been signaling months before they were working together on an Eastern strategy, and this presented an opportunity. The league with the best Eastern strategy (and one that also had a shiny new TV commitment) won the day...

Exactly. That's all I've been asking for y'all to admit. Not this bs that if JMU had joined you guys would still be here. For all we know JMU liked the SB and their TV deal better.

I'm pretty sure that they did. I think it was a bunch of things.

My impression and theory is ODU and Marshall were trying to remake Conference USA into a more eastern league, the one we have wanted for some time. Our president released a statement to that effect. That meant JMU and Liberty.

I think not everyone was happy with Liberty, and possibly JMU themselves weren't that keen on being with them. But either way, loading up in the east wasn't really fair to the rest of the league, and Judy probably wanted to add some western schools to balance out.

If Liberty wasn't an option, we tried recruiting the Eastern SBC schools. They didn't want to come, but DID want to share a conference with us. They turned it around and convinced the SBC to invite the three of us instead. We are all favorably located for App State and Coastal, and there's a lot of history between the teams in the new East.

When ESPN agreed to pay for our addition, that became an actual option. Suddenly the choice was between the SBC, which quite frankly feels more like where we were meant to be, or staying and trying to rebuild the conference that we were unhappy with, trying to change it into something it's not.

In the long run I think it's probably better for both parties how this worked out. Now we aren't in CUSAs way for westward expansion. NMSU and SHSU, for example. Y'all were/are free to remold the conference with fewer dissenting opinions

clt says the lowly sunbelt waiving entrance fees was a huge factor

(11-11-2021 10:00 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt says the lowly sunbelt waving entrance fees was a huge factor

Waving?

(11-11-2021 06:17 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:09 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote:  After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.

Not a chance that we stayed guys, I'm sorry but that conference is shite. It is honestly probably better than it was, with the worst teams going to the AAC, but only slightly better in aggregate even with liberty. Sunbelt is still stronger and better option. ESPN, more money and exposure, better competition.

Better option in football. In all sports combined, I have analysis showing CUSA's 9 teams rate better in all sports combined than the Sun Belt and MAC, even though fairly close. The conference that lost the most in this whole thing was the AAC.

All I and most care about in reality, is football and basketball. Soccer haa recently been something I'm following for obvious reasons but football and basketball is the 2 major ones. Football sunbelt is heads and shoulders better. Potentially best G5 league. Basketball got better with Marshall and ODU, though, maybe not better than the old cusa, i think it's equal to the new. Both are always going to be 1 bid leagues anyway.

(11-11-2021 10:08 PM)ODU-Z8 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:00 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt says the lowly sunbelt waving entrance fees was a huge factor

Waving?

clt says that gif is from Beaufort county Sc

(11-11-2021 10:12 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:17 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:09 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote:  After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.

Not a chance that we stayed guys, I'm sorry but that conference is shite. It is honestly probably better than it was, with the worst teams going to the AAC, but only slightly better in aggregate even with liberty. Sunbelt is still stronger and better option. ESPN, more money and exposure, better competition.

Better option in football. In all sports combined, I have analysis showing CUSA's 9 teams rate better in all sports combined than the Sun Belt and MAC, even though fairly close. The conference that lost the most in this whole thing was the AAC.

All I and most care about in reality, is football and basketball. Soccer haa recently been something I'm following for obvious reasons but football and basketball is the 2 major ones. Football sunbelt is heads and shoulders better. Potentially best G5 league. Basketball got better with Marshall and ODU, though, maybe not better than the old cusa, i think it's equal to the new. Both are always going to be 1 bid leagues anyway.

New CUSA can be a two bid league occasionally if NM State, Liberty, or WKU have good seasons.

(11-11-2021 10:44 PM)pistolp747 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:12 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:17 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:09 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote:  After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.

Not a chance that we stayed guys, I'm sorry but that conference is shite. It is honestly probably better than it was, with the worst teams going to the AAC, but only slightly better in aggregate even with liberty. Sunbelt is still stronger and better option. ESPN, more money and exposure, better competition.

Better option in football. In all sports combined, I have analysis showing CUSA's 9 teams rate better in all sports combined than the Sun Belt and MAC, even though fairly close. The conference that lost the most in this whole thing was the AAC.

All I and most care about in reality, is football and basketball. Soccer haa recently been something I'm following for obvious reasons but football and basketball is the 2 major ones. Football sunbelt is heads and shoulders better. Potentially best G5 league. Basketball got better with Marshall and ODU, though, maybe not better than the old cusa, i think it's equal to the new. Both are always going to be 1 bid leagues anyway.

New CUSA can be a two bid league occasionally if NM State, Liberty, or WKU have good seasons.

That’s what I said back in 2014 and still waiting. Not going to happen. Almost feel bad for all these newbies, but reality will hit sooner or later for all..

(11-11-2021 10:48 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:44 PM)pistolp747 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:12 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:17 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:09 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  Not a chance that we stayed guys, I'm sorry but that conference is shite. It is honestly probably better than it was, with the worst teams going to the AAC, but only slightly better in aggregate even with liberty. Sunbelt is still stronger and better option. ESPN, more money and exposure, better competition.

Better option in football. In all sports combined, I have analysis showing CUSA's 9 teams rate better in all sports combined than the Sun Belt and MAC, even though fairly close. The conference that lost the most in this whole thing was the AAC.

All I and most care about in reality, is football and basketball. Soccer haa recently been something I'm following for obvious reasons but football and basketball is the 2 major ones. Football sunbelt is heads and shoulders better. Potentially best G5 league. Basketball got better with Marshall and ODU, though, maybe not better than the old cusa, i think it's equal to the new. Both are always going to be 1 bid leagues anyway.

New CUSA can be a two bid league occasionally if NM State, Liberty, or WKU have good seasons.

That’s what I said back in 2014 and still waiting. Not going to happen. Almost feel bad for all these newbies, but reality will hit sooner or later for all..

I always thought a league with UAB, LaTech, ODU, WKU and UTEP would easily be a two bid league, but never happened. Even with Marshall, UNT and MT stepping up their hoops prowess too. It think the new CUSA is a really good hoops league. But I doubt it sees two bids. But it should be better than the SB most seasons.

(11-11-2021 10:48 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:44 PM)pistolp747 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:12 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:17 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 06:09 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  Not a chance that we stayed guys, I'm sorry but that conference is shite. It is honestly probably better than it was, with the worst teams going to the AAC, but only slightly better in aggregate even with liberty. Sunbelt is still stronger and better option. ESPN, more money and exposure, better competition.

Better option in football. In all sports combined, I have analysis showing CUSA's 9 teams rate better in all sports combined than the Sun Belt and MAC, even though fairly close. The conference that lost the most in this whole thing was the AAC.

All I and most care about in reality, is football and basketball. Soccer haa recently been something I'm following for obvious reasons but football and basketball is the 2 major ones. Football sunbelt is heads and shoulders better. Potentially best G5 league. Basketball got better with Marshall and ODU, though, maybe not better than the old cusa, i think it's equal to the new. Both are always going to be 1 bid leagues anyway.

New CUSA can be a two bid league occasionally if NM State, Liberty, or WKU have good seasons.

That’s what I said back in 2014 and still waiting. Not going to happen. Almost feel bad for all these newbies, but reality will hit sooner or later for all..

I believe two bids is an actual possibility in this new CUSA. This new version of the conference will have the old WAC feel to it. That conference Spanned from Hawaii to Louisiana. Liberty will be our Boise in football (but not for long) and NM State will continue dominate in hoops and get a better seed in the tournament. Possibility achieving a top 25 ranking due to a better overall strength of schedule. The WAC has always been an anchor for the Aggies.

Also, I feel like NM State football can actually be competitive in this conference. Our football team is not as bad as the record indicates. If we would have played a Sun Belt or CUSA schedule this year I believe my Aggies would have a better record. Not to long ago we where playing the Sun Belt schools and actually competing. Not to mention all the good eastern talent that may want to head out west to play for NM State.

Overall, I see this move very good for NM State and it’s new Conference mates.

Don't underestimate App and Coastal's role in getting Marshall, ODU, and JMU over. App and ODU had been working on am eastern based league for years and never could get buy in from the necessary AAC programs. This was an opportunity for App to get their Eastern based league, which Coastal was a part of, and help make the Sun Belt stronger. I believe the blueprint App wanted always included JMU, ODU, and Marshall. Considering this had been discussed previously amongst those programs, I believe it was more feasible that they leave for the Sun Belt rather than App and Coastal leave for a Texas based, minded, and centric C-USA.

And that's what it comes down to. Judy's drama appears to be a Texas based league and Texas centric league even if it's the western edge geographically.

Yes tex-centricity is a word and real movement I could do without. I could also do without Judy.

(11-12-2021 12:38 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Yes tex-centricity is a word and real movement I could do without. I could also do without Judy.

In the political sense, and the influx that they are dealing with, I could soon do without it as well.

In terms of this conference, it is a travesty. It doesn't matter where your league offices are, you shouldn't be focused on Texas, or any specific geographic region for that matter. You should be focused on what is best for your member institutions.

The Sun Belt is in New Orleans, they had an opportunity to invite another Louisiana program, but did they? No. Five of the six most recent additions have come from East to Statesboro and North to West Virginia. Judy almost certainly would have taken a Texas school in a comparable situation.

This is why Marshall and ODU left and why JMU joined the Sun Belt. The answer isn't timing. The answer is that the Sun Belt is a better all around fit for these programs than a league seeking seemingly replicate the Southwest conference, in part, while having sporadic East Coast programs.

Plus, no one in the Sun Belt wanted Liberty after their rounds offering bribes in 2014 or whatever year it was. The Belt went with a small school with a short history and budgetary concerns at the beach instead. Liberty has done well for themselves, but when that is the impression you leave on people, it's not going to be reversed. I'm also not an academic snob but they are more similar to Grand Canyon and the University of Phoenix than they are like a BYU or Notre Dame and their athletics program benefits from that model.

I'm not surprised C-USA took them, but if they didn't have to, they wouldn't have. It was an act of desperation, not legitimate interest, I'd imagine.

(11-11-2021 10:00 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt says the lowly sunbelt waiving entrance fees was a huge factor

And the three future Scum Belch members blame MacLeod for the media rights contract no thanks to two of those new members voting to support stabbing our previous media partner in the back.

(11-12-2021 01:29 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:00 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt says the lowly sunbelt waiving entrance fees was a huge factor

And the three future Scum Belch members blame MacLeod for the media rights contract no thanks to two of those new members voting to support stabbing our previous media partner in the back.

I blame Judy for jumping on the 1st contract offered to her. But CUSA is in this situation because of RC Johnson (Memphis AD 1996-2012) and Britton Banowsky. RC Johnson is the one that led the charge for CUSA to leave ESPN. For what ever reason he wanted to try and screw "The Mouse House". UAB, SMU and UTEP jumped on board immediately.

But 95% of the crap that has gotten on CUSA, happened on Banowsky's watch.

(11-11-2021 05:02 PM)FAU Connoisseur! Wrote:  I don't think USM or marshal could afford to stay in C-USA from a monetary standpoint. It became too expensive for them.
So they were gone no matter what.

I disagree. Both were trying for the Big East/AAC for years. I think after we got a good AD he looked at what was out there he felt the SBC was a good fit.

I can't speak as to why ODU and Marshall joined the SBC, but I feel that our AD felt this was a good move with the culture of the fans and footprint of the SBC vs CUSA.

(11-11-2021 05:52 PM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 05:45 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  I'm fully aware of what actually happened, and yes, Liberty joined after Marshall and ODU took JMU to the Sun Belt. But I'm also very aware of discussions that were going on before any of those moves were official, and Liberty and JMU were linked to CUSA as there were active discussions about bringing them in. Marshall and ODU both strongly supported bring in both institutions. Unfortunately those discussions did not bear fruit, and lead to Marshall and ODU packing their bags for the Sun Belt.

Then who was against it? And did that same school or schools vote yes after everyone left?

The western schools probably, and here's why. One thing you have to consider when it comes to conferences is it's all politics and voting blocs. If Marshall and ODU were successful in bringing in Liberty and JMU, then those four, plus WKU, MTSU, and FIU would make a powerful voting bloc in the east, which the western schools DID NOT WANT from what I can tell. So they torpedoed the idea, leading to ODU and Marshall leaving. Now they have a conference with a much more southwestern bend to it, just like they wanted.

Once Liberty's vote wasn't a threat to the western bloc they were okay with adding them.