(11-12-2021 10:28 AM)Huan Wrote:  conference realignment can be unpredictable. let us say it isn't the big 12 but the pac 12 decides to expand by 2 as their media contract is coming up for renegotiation. in a year or two. maybe it is the MWC or even the MAC (after talking to media partner). maybe nothing changes. you plans for potential adversities and hope for the best: insurance. CUSA at 9 is too fragile. think of going to 10 or 12 as insurance. i pay $ in insurance and never used it; money lost but it also buy security and stability and CUSA needs both. Insurance: you may not need it but better have what you don't need rather than need what you cannot get. fbs status maybe at stake since there likely aren't any available fbs to join by 25. there is also a ncaa provision specifying a conference fbs members must have played each other for two continuous years without exception. i don't think most of us realize how tenuous things remain for CUSA at 9.

and if it is games of throne espn may strike again

Perhaps it boils down to appetite for risk.

I like your insurance analogy so ill stick with it. I can go out and get an basic insurance policy to cover my butt in case the worst should happen. Right now, maybe 10 is that policy - however, I would make the case that 9 is the most basic policy since it gives you one departure with no penalty.

After that, its all how one views risk. I could also take out two additional policies with separate companies (new schools) and be extra covered (12 teams). But what if 15 years from now, noone ever leaves and each conference team has been sharing pie they didn't have to? Let's say they gave up $350k/year that they could have been using on expenses. Just like if at the end of 15 years, I didn't need any of those policies - I had just "wasted " money.

Sure they would have come in handy if I needed them, but if I didn't need them then in hindsight I'd wish I'd never taken them out. Its all just risk assessment. For some people, they want the security of knowing their covered- peace of mind. For others, they're willing to take more risk because they can keep more money in their pocket right now

(11-12-2021 12:25 PM)Huan Wrote:  [quote='Bhaddawgy' pid='17845102' dateline='1636736535']
[quote='Huan' pid='17844716' dateline='1636730913']
conference realignment can be unpredictable. let us say it isn't the big 12 but the pac 12 decides to expand by 2 as their media contract is coming up for renegotiation. in a year or two. maybe it is the MWC or even the MAC (after talking to media partner). maybe nothing changes. you plans for potential adversities and hope for the best: insurance. CUSA at 9 is too fragile. think of going to 10 or 12 as insurance. i pay $ in insurance and never used it; money lost but it also buy security and stability and CUSA needs both. Insurance: you may not need it but better have what you don't need rather than need what you cannot get. fbs status maybe at stake since there likely aren't any available fbs to join by 25. there is also a ncaa provision specifying a conference fbs members must have played each other for two continuous years without exception. i don't think most of us realize how tenuous things remain for CUSA at 9.

and if it is games of throne espn may strike again

Looking at the landscape right now as it stands, it seems to me that ten would be enough insurance, right now, who do we have that anyone would even want?

Quote:i think where CUSA settles on number of members will depends on their risk tolerance regarding possible future members defection.

I agree with you bhaddawgy. The notion is that right now none of the other conferences want any CUSA members, and as I've offered in this thread - the assumption is that no conferences will expand in the next ten years.

I agree, Huan. It's about risk tolerance. I thought it was crazy that you must've typed this while I was already in the middle of my last post regarding risk

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

Could add NDSU, SDSU or MO St., and an eastern school,

or

Could add NDSU, SDSU, & MO. St., and move LTU into the CUSA East

CUSA East:
WKU
MTSU
Liberty
FIU
JSU
LTU

CUSA West:
UTEP
NMSU
SHSU
NDSU
SDSU
MO St.

BTW, grammatically speaking, the question isn't "who(m)to add," but rather, "which to add," since a university is a "thing," not a "person."

(11-15-2021 02:21 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

I heard Kennesaw main concern is their alumni isn't involved and not many actually go to the game. Most are probably still going to watch Georgia.

(11-15-2021 08:30 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 02:21 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

I heard Kennesaw main concern is their alumni isn't involved and not many actually go to the game. Most are probably still going to watch Georgia.

Did C-USA say that or it was a rumor?

(11-15-2021 08:48 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 08:30 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 02:21 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

I heard Kennesaw main concern is their alumni isn't involved and not many actually go to the game. Most are probably still going to watch Georgia.

Did C-USA say that or it was a rumor? Kennesaw State would be a good add just on its location alone. Most of the students who go to these mid major schools watch P5 over their school. There are LA Tech students who watch LSU over LA Tech. Kennesaw State is a good team with the budget to join C-USA in metro Atlanta. This alone from a recruiting standpoint would benefit the other teams in C-USA. KSU is a way better add then UConn or UMass. C-USA would be stupid not to add Kennesaw State.

(11-10-2021 11:16 PM)rtist Wrote:  With Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee staying in C-USA, the league now has nine members moving forward in 2023. My question is: should we expand further? If so, how many members should the conference have, and who should be added?

If it were me, I would add Stephen F. Austin as school #10. They are highly competitive in mens basketball, and also Sam Houston State's main rival. Adding a third school located in Texas would also create balance between divisions. Consider:

WEST: NMSU, UTEP, SFA, SHSU, LTU
EAST: LU, WKU, MT, JSU, FIU.

If you wanted to get to 12, I would add two schools west of the Mississippi River, and one school east of the Mississippi River. That maintains the balance between east and west. Lots of choices exist regarding schools to vet, so there's no rush to get to 12 members.

I would add Kennesaw State to the east

(11-13-2021 09:30 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Here's how things stack up an who may be good additions versus not so good additions. This is meant as a quick and dirty evaluation to get a conversation started.

Sources:
Equity in Athletics https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search
2019 Football Attendance http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2019.pdf
2019 - 2020 Basketball Attendance http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...Attend.pdf


Number of Undergrads:
1. Liberty 28,434
2. Florida International 27,652
3. Middle Tennessee State 15,689
4. Sam Houston State 15,311
5. UTEP 13,840
6. Western Kentucky 11,604
7. New Mexico State 9,708
8. Louisiana Tech 7,701
9. Jacksonville State 5,759
Average 15,078

Total Revenue:
1. Liberty $47,756,081
2. Florida International $37,417,126
3. Middle Tennessee State $34,840,886
4. UTEP $29,468,952
5. New Mexico State $27,724,312
6. Western Kentucky $26,568,285
7. Louisiana Tech $21,717,648
8. Sam Houston State $20,010,161
9. Jacksonville State $15,854,684
Average $29,039,793

Football Revenue:
1. Liberty $15,298,764
2. Florida International $12,243,022
3. UTEP $11,831,362
4. Middle Tennessee State $10,195,755
5. Western Kentucky $9,956,826
6. New Mexico State $9,228,333
7. Louisiana Tech $8,977,470
8. Jacksonville State $4,820,503
9. Sam Houston State $4,408,800
Average $9,662,315

Men's Basketball Revenue:
1. UTEP $4,722,860
2. Liberty $3,528,543
3. New Mexico State $3,286270
4. Middle Tennessee State $3,151,735
5. Western Kentucky $3,147,254
6. Louisiana State $2,624,299
7. Florida International $1,958,855
8. Jacksonville State $1,546,609
9. Sam Houston State $1,209,741
Average $2,797,352

Revenue Not Allocated by Sport (typically student fees or budget shortfall covered by the academic side; usually not good):
1. Florida International $20,743,934
2. Liberty $12,117,585
3. Middle Tennessee State $10,908,965
4. Sam Houston State $7,976,097
5. Western Kentucky $6,780,562
6. New Mexico State $6,084,679
7. Jacksonville State $3,873,492
8. Louisiana State $3,118,505
9. UTEP $1,940,390
Average $8,171,579

Total Revenue Less the Non-Allocated:
1. Liberty $35,638,496
2. UTEP $27,528,562
3. Middle Tennessee State $23,931,921
4. New Mexico State $21,639,633
5. Western Kentucky $19,787,723
6. Louisiana State $18,599,143
7. Florida International $16,673,192
8. Sam Houston State $12,034,064
9. Jacksonville State $11,981,192
Average $20,868,214

Football Attendance:
1. Louisiana Tech 20,439
2. Liberty 18,272
3. New Mexico State 17,905
4. UTEP 17,093
5. Jacksonville State 16,829
6. Western Kentucky 15,191
7. Middle Tennessee State 14,253
8. Florida International 13,874
9. Sam Houston State 4,878
Average 15,415

Men's Basketball Attendance:
1. New Mexico State 6,503
2. UTEP 5,311
3. Western Kentucky 5,093
4. Liberty 4,476
5. Middle Tennessee State 3,453
6. Louisiana Tech 2,639
7. Jacksonville State 1,593
8. Florida International 1,048
9. Sam Houston State 1,024
Average 3,460

My thoughts:
FIU - Relatively a lot of students and revenue (including football) makes for good potential. However, they look heavily subsidized as they go from the second highest total revenue to the third lowest total revenue after removing the non-allocated revenues. Attendance is abysmal relative to undergrad student population.
Jacksonville State - The smallest school but seems pretty passionate about football based on the attendance. It doesn't translate to more revenue though. They need to bring in more money to succeed at the FBS level. Hopefully they will be able to drum up more financial support that was waiting for FBS.
Liberty - At or near the top in almost everything. Unfortunately, also the subsidized revenue which doesn't help the perception that they will spend their way to victory. However, they are still first in revenue when excluding it and have the highest undergrad student population.
Louisiana Tech - Low undergrad students, low revenues. Great football attendance that hasn't translated into more revenue. Basketball is lacking relative to the rest of the conference.
Middle Tennessee State - I was pleasantly surprised to see them as high as they are in all the categories, not that I had low expectations. They are at or above the average and median in most categories.
New Mexico State - I expected more students despite the geography being the state university of New Mexico. Not bad all around with high attendance in both sports that needs to translate to more total revenue.
Sam Houston State - I hope revenues increase with a move to FBS because they are really poor compared to the rest of the conference. Attendance is a joke. Less than 5,000 football attendance per game for a good FCS program in Texas? Weren't they in a conference full of Texas schools? At least their undergrad population is good and develops into more money and bodies going to games.
UTEP - At or near the top in almost every category except one: the lowest subsidized school. They seem very well run that just hasn't had the on-field/court results to match the seemingly well-run athletic department.
Western Kentucky - They are right in the middle of just about everything, sometimes just above and sometimes just below. Looks pretty consistent.

(11-14-2021 10:48 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Some schools that get thrown around a bunch:

Undergrads:
C-USA Average 15,078
C-USA Median 13,840

Kennesaw State 25,285
Missouri State 13,939
North Carolina A&T State 9,926
North Dakota State 9,598
Stephen F Austin State 9,183
Tarleton State 8,211
South Dakota State 7,961
McNeese State 5,231

Total Revenue:
C-USA Average $29,039,793
C-USA Median $27,724,312

North Dakota State $28,375,430
South Dakota State $19,685,092
Kennesaw State $19,045,913
Missouri State $18,281,719
Stephen F Austin State $18,175,572
North Carolina A&T State $15,435,243
McNeese State $12,487,483
Tarleton State $11,310,822

Football Revenue:
C-USA Average $9,662,315
C-USA Median $9,956,826

North Dakota State $5,914,804
Stephen F Austin State $4,545,096
South Dakota State $4,322,782
Missouri State $4,197,148
McNeese State $3,578,158
North Carolina A&T State $3,467,102
Tarleton State $2,314,723
Kennesaw State $1,169,910

Men's Basketball Revenue:
C-USA Average $2,797,352
C-USA Median $3,147,254

Missouri State $2,810,739
Stephen F Austin State $2,064,144
South Dakota State $1,921,465
North Dakota State $1,757,396
North Carolina A&T State $1,636,852
McNeese State $1,283,893
Tarleton State $874,734
Kennesaw State $558,521

Non-Allocated Revenue (probably bad):
C-USA Average $8,171,579
C-USA Median $6,780,562

Kennesaw State $16,098,277
North Dakota State $12,378,862
South Dakota State $6,528,029
Stephen F Austin $5,167,480
Tarleton State $4,994,117
North Carolina A&T State $4,461,543
Missouri State $2,935,687
McNeese State $2,426,042

Total Revenue less Non-Allocated:
C-USA Average $20,868,214
C-USA Median $19,787,723

North Dakota State $15,996,568
Missouri State $15,346,032
South Dakota State $13,157,063
Stephen F Austin $13,008,092
North Carolina A&T State $10,973,700
McNeese State $10,061,441
Tarleton State $6,316,705
Kennesaw State $2,947,636

Football Attendance:
C-USA Average 15,415
C-USA Median 16,829

North Dakota State 17,440
North Carolina A&T State 16,927
South Dakota State 10,971
McNeese State 10,878
Tarleton State 8,952
Stephen F Austin State 8,324
Missouri State 6,450
Kennesaw State 5,948

Basketball Attendance:
C-USA Average 3,460
C-USA Median 3,453

Missouri State 3,943
Stephen F Austin State 3,222
McNeese State 2,887
North Carolina A&T State 2,796
North Dakota State 2,676
South Dakota State 2,177
Tarleton State 1,263
Kennesaw State 1,135

In my opinion, it is slim pickings. Missouri State looks the best overall, though their football attendance leaves a lot to be desired. North Dakota State is the next best, but can the conference stomach the distance? South Dakota State doesn't look like a good travel partner from a performance standpoint as they are below average in everything. If MSU is a no, Stephen F Austin looks like the next best to me but that football attendance needs to get higher. Why isn't it higher? They are in Texas and they play in a conference full of Texas schools like Sam Houston State (even worse attendance), right? McNeese State doesn't look ready yet. They look like they outperform their undergraduate size but it needs to be higher to be C-USA level. I don't understand why people keep bringing up Tarleton State. They are Division II and have good attendance for that level but everything else is subpar. Let me know how they do when they move to FCS. Speaking of moving to FCS, Kennesaw State is a major project. They have the most undergrads by far, which is great for potential boosters/supporters. However, they have the lowest football and basketball attendance which translates to the lowest football and basketball revenues. They make up for it with non-allocated revenue, which is insanely high (likely student fees and/or borrowing from the academic side to pay for athletic shortfall). NC A&T was a pleasant surprise as they have solid revenues compared to the others here, low subsidized revenue, and good attendance. I don't think they make C-USA better but they aren't a drag the way many of these are.

(11-14-2021 08:09 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Undergrads:
C-USA Average 15,078
C-USA Median 13,840

Montana 6,123

Total Revenue:
C-USA Average $29,039,793
C-USA Median $27,724,312

Montana $23,570,369

Football Revenue:
C-USA Average $9,662,315
C-USA Median $9,956,826

Montana $9,554,411

Men's Basketball Revenue:
C-USA Average $2,797,352
C-USA Median $3,147,254

Montana $2,390,235

Non-Allocated Revenue (probably bad):
C-USA Average $8,171,579
C-USA Median $6,780,562

Montana $8,662,062

Total Revenue less Non-Allocated:
C-USA Average $20,868,214
C-USA Median $19,787,723

Montana $14,908,307

Football Attendance:
C-USA Average 15,415
C-USA Median 16,829

Montana 22,545

Basketball Attendance:
C-USA Average 3,460
C-USA Median 3,453

Montana 4,025

The University of Montana looks like a really good option but geography likely makes them a non-starter. They are even further away from the conference than the Dakota schools and a football-only member at best. Their subsidy is high and their undergrad population is low but they seem to have a passionate fan base.

(11-15-2021 02:21 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

I would too. In fact, if I were the commissioner, I’d revoke SHSU’s invite and add KSU instead. All the KSU fans seem intent and excited about the idea of going FBS. Sam Houston fans hate this move and the students voted not to fund it. It would be so funny to see the athletic department in shambles lol!

(11-15-2021 02:21 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

Football stadium size and attendance?

NC A&T has wanted to move to fbs for a while now. They have the facilities and the budget is almost there.

(11-15-2021 10:19 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(11-13-2021 09:30 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Here's how things stack up an who may be good additions versus not so good additions. This is meant as a quick and dirty evaluation to get a conversation started.

Sources:
Equity in Athletics https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search
2019 Football Attendance http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2019.pdf
2019 - 2020 Basketball Attendance http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...Attend.pdf


Number of Undergrads:
1. Liberty 28,434
2. Florida International 27,652
3. Middle Tennessee State 15,689
4. Sam Houston State 15,311
5. UTEP 13,840
6. Western Kentucky 11,604
7. New Mexico State 9,708
8. Louisiana Tech 7,701
9. Jacksonville State 5,759
Average 15,078

Total Revenue:
1. Liberty $47,756,081
2. Florida International $37,417,126
3. Middle Tennessee State $34,840,886
4. UTEP $29,468,952
5. New Mexico State $27,724,312
6. Western Kentucky $26,568,285
7. Louisiana Tech $21,717,648
8. Sam Houston State $20,010,161
9. Jacksonville State $15,854,684
Average $29,039,793

Football Revenue:
1. Liberty $15,298,764
2. Florida International $12,243,022
3. UTEP $11,831,362
4. Middle Tennessee State $10,195,755
5. Western Kentucky $9,956,826
6. New Mexico State $9,228,333
7. Louisiana Tech $8,977,470
8. Jacksonville State $4,820,503
9. Sam Houston State $4,408,800
Average $9,662,315

Men's Basketball Revenue:
1. UTEP $4,722,860
2. Liberty $3,528,543
3. New Mexico State $3,286270
4. Middle Tennessee State $3,151,735
5. Western Kentucky $3,147,254
6. Louisiana State $2,624,299
7. Florida International $1,958,855
8. Jacksonville State $1,546,609
9. Sam Houston State $1,209,741
Average $2,797,352

Revenue Not Allocated by Sport (typically student fees or budget shortfall covered by the academic side; usually not good):
1. Florida International $20,743,934
2. Liberty $12,117,585
3. Middle Tennessee State $10,908,965
4. Sam Houston State $7,976,097
5. Western Kentucky $6,780,562
6. New Mexico State $6,084,679
7. Jacksonville State $3,873,492
8. Louisiana State $3,118,505
9. UTEP $1,940,390
Average $8,171,579

Total Revenue Less the Non-Allocated:
1. Liberty $35,638,496
2. UTEP $27,528,562
3. Middle Tennessee State $23,931,921
4. New Mexico State $21,639,633
5. Western Kentucky $19,787,723
6. Louisiana State $18,599,143
7. Florida International $16,673,192
8. Sam Houston State $12,034,064
9. Jacksonville State $11,981,192
Average $20,868,214

Football Attendance:
1. Louisiana Tech 20,439
2. Liberty 18,272
3. New Mexico State 17,905
4. UTEP 17,093
5. Jacksonville State 16,829
6. Western Kentucky 15,191
7. Middle Tennessee State 14,253
8. Florida International 13,874
9. Sam Houston State 4,878
Average 15,415

Men's Basketball Attendance:
1. New Mexico State 6,503
2. UTEP 5,311
3. Western Kentucky 5,093
4. Liberty 4,476
5. Middle Tennessee State 3,453
6. Louisiana Tech 2,639
7. Jacksonville State 1,593
8. Florida International 1,048
9. Sam Houston State 1,024
Average 3,460

My thoughts:
FIU - Relatively a lot of students and revenue (including football) makes for good potential. However, they look heavily subsidized as they go from the second highest total revenue to the third lowest total revenue after removing the non-allocated revenues. Attendance is abysmal relative to undergrad student population.
Jacksonville State - The smallest school but seems pretty passionate about football based on the attendance. It doesn't translate to more revenue though. They need to bring in more money to succeed at the FBS level. Hopefully they will be able to drum up more financial support that was waiting for FBS.
Liberty - At or near the top in almost everything. Unfortunately, also the subsidized revenue which doesn't help the perception that they will spend their way to victory. However, they are still first in revenue when excluding it and have the highest undergrad student population.
Louisiana Tech - Low undergrad students, low revenues. Great football attendance that hasn't translated into more revenue. Basketball is lacking relative to the rest of the conference.
Middle Tennessee State - I was pleasantly surprised to see them as high as they are in all the categories, not that I had low expectations. They are at or above the average and median in most categories.
New Mexico State - I expected more students despite the geography being the state university of New Mexico. Not bad all around with high attendance in both sports that needs to translate to more total revenue.
Sam Houston State - I hope revenues increase with a move to FBS because they are really poor compared to the rest of the conference. Attendance is a joke. Less than 5,000 football attendance per game for a good FCS program in Texas? Weren't they in a conference full of Texas schools? At least their undergrad population is good and develops into more money and bodies going to games.
UTEP - At or near the top in almost every category except one: the lowest subsidized school. They seem very well run that just hasn't had the on-field/court results to match the seemingly well-run athletic department.
Western Kentucky - They are right in the middle of just about everything, sometimes just above and sometimes just below. Looks pretty consistent.

(11-14-2021 10:48 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Some schools that get thrown around a bunch:

Undergrads:
C-USA Average 15,078
C-USA Median 13,840

Kennesaw State 25,285
Missouri State 13,939
North Carolina A&T State 9,926
North Dakota State 9,598
Stephen F Austin State 9,183
Tarleton State 8,211
South Dakota State 7,961
McNeese State 5,231

Total Revenue:
C-USA Average $29,039,793
C-USA Median $27,724,312

North Dakota State $28,375,430
South Dakota State $19,685,092
Kennesaw State $19,045,913
Missouri State $18,281,719
Stephen F Austin State $18,175,572
North Carolina A&T State $15,435,243
McNeese State $12,487,483
Tarleton State $11,310,822

Football Revenue:
C-USA Average $9,662,315
C-USA Median $9,956,826

North Dakota State $5,914,804
Stephen F Austin State $4,545,096
South Dakota State $4,322,782
Missouri State $4,197,148
McNeese State $3,578,158
North Carolina A&T State $3,467,102
Tarleton State $2,314,723
Kennesaw State $1,169,910

Men's Basketball Revenue:
C-USA Average $2,797,352
C-USA Median $3,147,254

Missouri State $2,810,739
Stephen F Austin State $2,064,144
South Dakota State $1,921,465
North Dakota State $1,757,396
North Carolina A&T State $1,636,852
McNeese State $1,283,893
Tarleton State $874,734
Kennesaw State $558,521

Non-Allocated Revenue (probably bad):
C-USA Average $8,171,579
C-USA Median $6,780,562

Kennesaw State $16,098,277
North Dakota State $12,378,862
South Dakota State $6,528,029
Stephen F Austin $5,167,480
Tarleton State $4,994,117
North Carolina A&T State $4,461,543
Missouri State $2,935,687
McNeese State $2,426,042

Total Revenue less Non-Allocated:
C-USA Average $20,868,214
C-USA Median $19,787,723

North Dakota State $15,996,568
Missouri State $15,346,032
South Dakota State $13,157,063
Stephen F Austin $13,008,092
North Carolina A&T State $10,973,700
McNeese State $10,061,441
Tarleton State $6,316,705
Kennesaw State $2,947,636

Football Attendance:
C-USA Average 15,415
C-USA Median 16,829

North Dakota State 17,440
North Carolina A&T State 16,927
South Dakota State 10,971
McNeese State 10,878
Tarleton State 8,952
Stephen F Austin State 8,324
Missouri State 6,450
Kennesaw State 5,948

Basketball Attendance:
C-USA Average 3,460
C-USA Median 3,453

Missouri State 3,943
Stephen F Austin State 3,222
McNeese State 2,887
North Carolina A&T State 2,796
North Dakota State 2,676
South Dakota State 2,177
Tarleton State 1,263
Kennesaw State 1,135

In my opinion, it is slim pickings. Missouri State looks the best overall, though their football attendance leaves a lot to be desired. North Dakota State is the next best, but can the conference stomach the distance? South Dakota State doesn't look like a good travel partner from a performance standpoint as they are below average in everything. If MSU is a no, Stephen F Austin looks like the next best to me but that football attendance needs to get higher. Why isn't it higher? They are in Texas and they play in a conference full of Texas schools like Sam Houston State (even worse attendance), right? McNeese State doesn't look ready yet. They look like they outperform their undergraduate size but it needs to be higher to be C-USA level. I don't understand why people keep bringing up Tarleton State. They are Division II and have good attendance for that level but everything else is subpar. Let me know how they do when they move to FCS. Speaking of moving to FCS, Kennesaw State is a major project. They have the most undergrads by far, which is great for potential boosters/supporters. However, they have the lowest football and basketball attendance which translates to the lowest football and basketball revenues. They make up for it with non-allocated revenue, which is insanely high (likely student fees and/or borrowing from the academic side to pay for athletic shortfall). NC A&T was a pleasant surprise as they have solid revenues compared to the others here, low subsidized revenue, and good attendance. I don't think they make C-USA better but they aren't a drag the way many of these are.

(11-14-2021 08:09 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Undergrads:
C-USA Average 15,078
C-USA Median 13,840

Montana 6,123

Total Revenue:
C-USA Average $29,039,793
C-USA Median $27,724,312

Montana $23,570,369

Football Revenue:
C-USA Average $9,662,315
C-USA Median $9,956,826

Montana $9,554,411

Men's Basketball Revenue:
C-USA Average $2,797,352
C-USA Median $3,147,254

Montana $2,390,235

Non-Allocated Revenue (probably bad):
C-USA Average $8,171,579
C-USA Median $6,780,562

Montana $8,662,062

Total Revenue less Non-Allocated:
C-USA Average $20,868,214
C-USA Median $19,787,723

Montana $14,908,307

Football Attendance:
C-USA Average 15,415
C-USA Median 16,829

Montana 22,545

Basketball Attendance:
C-USA Average 3,460
C-USA Median 3,453

Montana 4,025

The University of Montana looks like a really good option but geography likely makes them a non-starter. They are even further away from the conference than the Dakota schools and a football-only member at best. Their subsidy is high and their undergrad population is low but they seem to have a passionate fan base.

Kennesaw State Revenue is 28M not 19M
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...university
https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/?ret...2Ffinances

Kennesaw State would be a good add because of recruiting reason for other teams in C-USA alone Plus this information is not right, I went to Kennesaw State and we had over 35K undergrad. students. The total population for KSU is 43K. The alethic budget is also 28M http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...university

(11-15-2021 11:22 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 02:21 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

Football stadium size and attendance?

You can get a waver to expand your stadium. Sam Houston stadium is not 15K either. The NCAA does not enforce the attendance policy.

GE & MTS,

New Mexico State enrollment is a bit of puzzle. The 9,XXX you listed is not a number I've seen before. The NMSU office of institutional analysis lists around 12,000 undergrad headcount for this year.

NMSU also has a couple satellite campuses that are sometimes counted in the total enrollment, sometimes not.

Also, a community college is part of NMSU and has a campus across the street. It has around 10,000 students but they are generally listed separately .Whether they "count" or not is a paperwork issue I suppose. No doubt they're Aggie supporters though.

It's not really fair to use McNeese State 2020 revenue numbers. Most of Lake Charles didn't even have a place to live. I think there 2019 revenue numbers were around 20 million.

(11-16-2021 12:33 AM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 11:22 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 02:21 PM)jones682 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 11:57 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 10:23 PM)Tigerblud Wrote:  I think going to 12 with Missouri State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State would be best options. But I don't think Liberty would be happy without adding any East teams.

I don't think a lot of teams would be happy adding the Dakotas because of the geography. They seem like they belong in the MAC or MWC. I don't even think many teams would be happy adding UMass or UConn for football only. I think Liberty, FIU, Jacksonville State, would all like some team in the SE...such as EKU or Kennesaw State.

In the west, if you are adding 1 or 2 teams, Missouri State would be first, Stephen F. Austin 2nd, if we are looking at basketball also. SFA already has a rivalry with Sam Houston, which is good. Tarleton State is maybe further down the list because their basketball is not as good.

I would add Kennesaw State. Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta area, 43K students, Top 10 FCS team every year, and they they have the budget of 28M. I would add Kennesaw Sate to the east.

Football stadium size and attendance?

You can get a waver to expand your stadium. Sam Houston stadium is not 15K either. The NCAA does not enforce the attendance policy.

Do you know if KSU admin folks want fbs and if they are making an effort to join CUSA?

Personally think CUSA needs to get out the southeast and get some less populated areas. The SE has the most conferences in all football with SEC, Sunbelt, AAC and some of the ACC.

(11-11-2021 12:39 AM)rtist Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 12:25 AM)Huan Wrote:  NDSU, SDSt, MoSt

North Dakota State and South Dakota State are too far outside the footprint to merit inclusion.

I would consider Missouri State, but I don't know if they are much better than the other candidates mentioned thus far.

its 1 plane flight every other year to FARGO big deal.
NDSU is ready


NDSU can talk Missouri State into coming. sdsu is OUT.

so you add those 2 and then pick up 1 from the east? that's 12 teams.