(04-25-2023 12:14 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote: Who is looking to move up to FBS in MAC footprint. Northern Iowa and Illinois State would be two that would be great fits. There are in the Big Ten/MAC region. Adding two western schools would allow the MAC to move Toledo to the MAC East. Toledo in the East division would boost the MAC in football. Toledo vs the Michigan MAC likely draws the best in Detroit.
NIU and ISU make logical FCS call-ups if the MAC ever did expand !!
I think you mean UNI, and they do not really bring any market with them, which is what the MAC needs to become more appealing in order to renegotiate a better deal with the television networks. ISU also does nothing to bring a market either. The best bet would be to bring both UMass & UConn as football-only with a guaranteed number of basketball games (both men's & women's).
ISU adds zero tangible new market footprint for the MAC. Need a new school in a new state, hopefully near a decent media market.
(04-25-2023 12:14 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote: Who is looking to move up to FBS in MAC footprint. Northern Iowa and Illinois State would be two that would be great fits. There are in the Big Ten/MAC region. Adding two western schools would allow the MAC to move Toledo to the MAC East. Toledo in the East division would boost the MAC in football. Toledo vs the Michigan MAC likely draws the best in Detroit.
NIU and ISU make logical FCS call-ups if the MAC ever did expand !!
I think you mean UNI, and they do not really bring any market with them, which is what the MAC needs to become more appealing in order to renegotiate a better deal with the television networks. ISU also does nothing to bring a market either. The best bet would be to bring both UMass & UConn as football-only with a guaranteed number of basketball games (both men's & women's).
ISU adds zero tangible new market footprint for the MAC. Need a new school in a new state, hopefully near a decent media market.
It's not what we want but big daddy espn wants. They have the say, they control everything unfortunately
(04-25-2023 12:14 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote: Who is looking to move up to FBS in MAC footprint. Northern Iowa and Illinois State would be two that would be great fits. There are in the Big Ten/MAC region. Adding two western schools would allow the MAC to move Toledo to the MAC East. Toledo in the East division would boost the MAC in football. Toledo vs the Michigan MAC likely draws the best in Detroit.
NIU and ISU make logical FCS call-ups if the MAC ever did expand !!
I think you mean UNI, and they do not really bring any market with them, which is what the MAC needs to become more appealing in order to renegotiate a better deal with the television networks. ISU also does nothing to bring a market either. The best bet would be to bring both UMass & UConn as football-only with a guaranteed number of basketball games (both men's & women's).
ISU adds zero tangible new market footprint for the MAC. Need a new school in a new state, hopefully near a decent media market.
It's not what we want but big daddy espn wants. They have the say, they control everything unfortunately
Who is "we" here?
If we are the MAC sports fans, then it's not what we want, its what the MAC Presidents want.
And since what they want is exposure and more media income to reduce the cost of buying that exposure, it is indeed ESPN that decides what that means in terms of conference realignment.
(04-25-2023 07:31 AM)FMRocket Wrote: NIU and ISU make logical FCS call-ups if the MAC ever did expand !!
I think you mean UNI, and they do not really bring any market with them, which is what the MAC needs to become more appealing in order to renegotiate a better deal with the television networks. ISU also does nothing to bring a market either. The best bet would be to bring both UMass & UConn as football-only with a guaranteed number of basketball games (both men's & women's).
ISU adds zero tangible new market footprint for the MAC. Need a new school in a new state, hopefully near a decent media market.
It's not what we want but big daddy espn wants. They have the say, they control everything unfortunately
Who is "we" here?
If we are the MAC sports fans, then it's not what we want, its what the MAC Presidents want.
And since what they want is exposure and more media income to reduce the cost of buying that exposure, it is indeed ESPN that decides what that means in terms of conference realignment.
We meaning the fans but I don't hold a lot of faith in the presidents either. Ultimately it depends on who will move the needle for espn to make more money. Expansion will only occur if they see fit that's all.
(04-26-2023 09:17 AM)cmufanatic Wrote: ... We meaning the fans but I don't hold a lot of faith in the presidents either. Ultimately it depends on who will move the needle for espn to make more money. Expansion will only occur if they see fit that's all.
I don't get the "hold a lot of faith" phrase in this context.
They certainly are not going to be "pursuing a strategic vision for the MAC" or any such. That is below their pay grade. Their focus is on keeping progress going if their school is gaining ground within academia, and on slowing the slide if it is losing ground. And their focus in either event is on raising money.
So I have plenty of faith in a University President to be an academic politician who is looking to raise money for the University. That is why I don't expect to see any conference realignment move unless ESPN is willing to bump the contract as part of the process.
Disney and ESPN gave all the P5 conferences so much money in their TV contracts that they are in the process of doing three rounds of layoffs. Even though they pay us peanuts, I doubt they are giving us more anytime soon. Which means we can move on to a network that isn't hemorrhaging money and losing subscribers.
I’m sure the MAC would be happy to take more money and get better coverage from someone else. I just don’t think that network exists. Sports networks in general are struggling now that people are cutting the cord and those sports networks aren’t getting that cable rights money at the level they used to.
(04-26-2023 02:29 PM)epasnoopy Wrote: Disney and ESPN gave all the P5 conferences so much money in their TV contracts that they are in the process of doing three rounds of layoffs.
I'm not sure I would connect the two. The layoffs are Disney-wide. In ESPN's case, it may need to reduce costs because fewer people are paying for cable subscriptions. (Each subscriber who decides to cancel means ESPN takes a hit of $10 or more per month.)
I know it seems counterintuitive for ESPN to spend big money on college football even as it has been belt-tightening, but live American football is some of the most valuable content available in the marketplace today. I can understand why ESPN feels the need to go after this kind of appointment television.
What does this mean for the MAC's next TV contract? I'm not sure. On the one hand, MAC football obviously isn't driving the same numbers as the Big Ten or SEC, and the fact that ESPN is tightening its belt would seem to be a bad sign.
On the other hand, networks are paying good money for second-rate content like the XFL and the USFL. Given the seemingly insatiable hunger for football out there, the MAC might still be in a decent spot.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2023 06:49 PM by Schadenfreude.)
(04-26-2023 02:29 PM)epasnoopy Wrote: Disney and ESPN gave all the P5 conferences so much money in their TV contracts that they are in the process of doing three rounds of layoffs. Even though they pay us peanuts, I doubt they are giving us more anytime soon.
At the level of the MAC contract, it doesn't seem like it would change very much ... if there's a move they were willing to give a bump for on a contract extension before, it seems likely they'd still give a bump.
Quote: Which means we can move on to a network that isn't hemorrhaging money and losing subscribers.
The only networks that are gaining subscribers are much less lucrative on a per subscriber basis than ESPN, so if we moved, we'd have to accept a steep pay cut to do so.
ESPN remains a cash cow for Disney, Disney is just treating it more as a cash cow and less as an income growth opportunity.
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2023 07:16 AM by BruceMcF.)
(04-26-2023 02:29 PM)epasnoopy Wrote: Disney and ESPN gave all the P5 conferences so much money in their TV contracts that they are in the process of doing three rounds of layoffs. Even though they pay us peanuts, I doubt they are giving us more anytime soon.
At the level of the MAC contract, it doesn't seem like it would change very much ... if there's a move they were willing to give a bump for on a contract extension before, it seems likely they'd still give a bump.
Quote: Which means we can move on to a network that isn't hemorrhaging money and losing subscribers.
The only networks that are gaining subscribers are much less lucrative on a per subscriber basis than ESPN, so if we moved, we'd have to accept a steep pay cut to do so.
ESPN remains a cash cow for Disney, Disney is just treating it more as a cash cow and less as an income growth opportunity.
ESPN is losing subscribers every qtr for how many years now? It's a brand that is losing compared to streaming platforms.
Besides, the MAC should be looking to jump to platforms that have way more eyeballs.
This article predicts that ESPN could continue to lose subscribers until its down to 50 million in 2030. They've already lost over 25 million subscribers in 10 years. ESPN generates far less revenue than Netflix and Amazon. Most MAC games aren't even on ESPN's flagship channel anyway.
Meanwhile, Amazon Prime has over 200 million subscribers worldwide and over 150 million in US alone. Amazon has Thursday night football and clearly wants to get live sports content. Amazon Prime subscription revenue is worth $35 billion.
Both Netflix and Amazon have far more money to spend on content than ESPN.
Netflix has over 230 million subscribers and earns almost $32 billion in revenue. Probably a matter of time before they get into live sports content.
Apple TV is already doing live sports with MLB and MLS.
(04-26-2023 02:29 PM)epasnoopy Wrote: Disney and ESPN gave all the P5 conferences so much money in their TV contracts that they are in the process of doing three rounds of layoffs. Even though they pay us peanuts, I doubt they are giving us more anytime soon.
At the level of the MAC contract, it doesn't seem like it would change very much ... if there's a move they were willing to give a bump for on a contract extension before, it seems likely they'd still give a bump.
Quote: Which means we can move on to a network that isn't hemorrhaging money and losing subscribers.
The only networks that are gaining subscribers are much less lucrative on a per subscriber basis than ESPN, so if we moved, we'd have to accept a steep pay cut to do so.
ESPN remains a cash cow for Disney, Disney is just treating it more as a cash cow and less as an income growth opportunity.
ESPN is losing subscribers every qtr for how many years now? It's a brand that is losing compared to streaming platforms.
Besides, the MAC should be looking to jump to platforms that have way more eyeballs.
This article predicts that ESPN could continue to lose subscribers until its down to 50 million in 2030. They've already lost over 25 million subscribers in 10 years. ESPN generates far less revenue than Netflix and Amazon. Most MAC games aren't even on ESPN's flagship channel anyway.
Meanwhile, Amazon Prime has over 200 million subscribers worldwide and over 150 million in US alone. Amazon has Thursday night football and clearly wants to get live sports content. Amazon Prime subscription revenue is worth $35 billion.
Both Netflix and Amazon have far more money to spend on content than ESPN.
Netflix has over 230 million subscribers and earns almost $32 billion in revenue. Probably a matter of time before they get into live sports content.
Apple TV is already doing live sports with MLB and MLS.
Beat me too it. I I were MAC leadership I would look into reaching out to Amazon, Netflix, YouTube.
Recently watched dcfc soccer on YouTube, good streaming no issues at all.
Whatever company pays the most is top priority but I would try to get off ESPN. Get games back to Saturday at 1pm for the most part. Weeknight games have gotta go
(04-26-2023 02:29 PM)epasnoopy Wrote: Disney and ESPN gave all the P5 conferences so much money in their TV contracts that they are in the process of doing three rounds of layoffs. Even though they pay us peanuts, I doubt they are giving us more anytime soon.
At the level of the MAC contract, it doesn't seem like it would change very much ... if there's a move they were willing to give a bump for on a contract extension before, it seems likely they'd still give a bump.
Quote: Which means we can move on to a network that isn't hemorrhaging money and losing subscribers.
The only networks that are gaining subscribers are much less lucrative on a per subscriber basis than ESPN, so if we moved, we'd have to accept a steep pay cut to do so.
ESPN remains a cash cow for Disney, Disney is just treating it more as a cash cow and less as an income growth opportunity.
ESPN is losing subscribers every qtr for how many years now? It's a brand that is losing compared to streaming platforms.
Besides, the MAC should be looking to jump to platforms that have way more eyeballs.
This article predicts that ESPN could continue to lose subscribers until its down to 50 million in 2030. They've already lost over 25 million subscribers in 10 years. ESPN generates far less revenue than Netflix and Amazon. Most MAC games aren't even on ESPN's flagship channel anyway.
Meanwhile, Amazon Prime has over 200 million subscribers worldwide and over 150 million in US alone. Amazon has Thursday night football and clearly wants to get live sports content. Amazon Prime subscription revenue is worth $35 billion.
Both Netflix and Amazon have far more money to spend on content than ESPN.
Netflix has over 230 million subscribers and earns almost $32 billion in revenue. Probably a matter of time before they get into live sports content.
Apple TV is already doing live sports with MLB and MLS.
Beat me too it. I I were MAC leadership I would look into reaching out to Amazon, Netflix, YouTube.
Recently watched dcfc soccer on YouTube, good streaming no issues at all.
Whatever company pays the most is top priority but I would try to get off ESPN. Get games back to Saturday at 1pm for the most part. Weeknight games have gotta go
It will be interesting to see the final PAC12 media partner and realignment. Don't know what to make of it as ESPN loses the PAC12 will it be looking for more contentor are other streaming services willing to pay up. My guess is the MAC, A10 and others will stay with ESPN. FYI, the main A10 ESPN contract has been stuck at 5M for the A10 and it has been doing short term extensions. Don't expect it to go up as the A10 position has changed. It use to be the best BB conference without football. That all changed when the Big East split, which raided other conferences as the A10. And other A10 teams as Charlotte and Temple left because of football. Those two were not founding members of the A10. The A10 has always had a lot of movement with membership and will continue.
Now, did joke about the MWC for us, but do think it is a 15-20% possibility based on these comments at the video link for 10 sec, 2:50-3:00 minute mark. Talks about the western time zone, breaking into the eastern time media market because that is where the selection committees and the talking heads are, ranking serves. MWC interview, who is a WBB alumnis and majored in Sports Management.
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2023 05:46 PM by Steve1981.)
(04-27-2023 08:31 AM)epasnoopy Wrote: Meanwhile, Amazon Prime has over 200 million subscribers worldwide and over 150 million in US alone. Amazon has Thursday night football and clearly wants to get live sports content.
And appears to want higher profile live sports content than the MAC has available.
Quote: Netflix has over 230 million subscribers and earns almost $32 billion in revenue.
And in the first quarter of 2023 Netflix posted revenue growth, after revenue declines in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2022.
So, how much of that is from subscribers paying Netflix for live sports content?
Quote: Probably a matter of time before they get into live sports content.
Aha, so that would indicate none of it.
Quote: Apple TV is already doing live sports with MLB and MLS.
We are all watching to see if Apple TV gets into college sports with the PAC-12, and under what terms.
But until we have any indication that Netflix, AppleTV or Amazon wants Go5 football content, what we know that we have as an available alternative are the kinds of deals that CUSA has until there were able to strike a deal with CBS & ESPN.
Just because it would be nice if there was a bidder for MAC content with deep pockets, isn't on its own evidence that there is.
(04-27-2023 08:31 AM)epasnoopy Wrote: Meanwhile, Amazon Prime has over 200 million subscribers worldwide and over 150 million in US alone. Amazon has Thursday night football and clearly wants to get live sports content.
And appears to want higher profile live sports content than the MAC has available.
Quote: Netflix has over 230 million subscribers and earns almost $32 billion in revenue.
And in the first quarter of 2023 Netflix posted revenue growth, after revenue declines in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2022.
So, how much of that is from subscribers paying Netflix for live sports content?
Quote: Probably a matter of time before they get into live sports content.
Aha, so that would indicate none of it.
Quote: Apple TV is already doing live sports with MLB and MLS.
We are all watching to see if Apple TV gets into college sports with the PAC-12, and under what terms.
But until we have any indication that Netflix, AppleTV or Amazon wants Go5 football content, what we know that we have as an available alternative are the kinds of deals that CUSA has until there were able to strike a deal with CBS & ESPN.
Just because it would be nice if there was a bidder for MAC content with deep pockets, isn't on its own evidence that there is.
Sitting around and waiting is what has led to the MAC becoming stagnant. You go out and shoot your shot instead of "assuming" like you do that Netflix, Amazon, and Apple TV don't want G5 football. ESPN wanted G5 football and that was at the pinnacle of ESPN. Now they are on a downtrend.
Woopty-do, Netflix had negative subscriber growth for a couple quarters. They still have triple the subscribers as ESPN and have far more revenue than ESPN to spend on content.
Early bird gets the worm. You wait around and watch everyone else get deals and you get left behind. As the MAC already has...
I know all you old timers think ESPN is gods gift to MAC football but it's alright to move on. Guess what else used to be the best at its time...MTV. Now it's a shell of what it used to be.
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2023 06:54 PM by epasnoopy.)
(04-27-2023 08:31 AM)epasnoopy Wrote: Meanwhile, Amazon Prime has over 200 million subscribers worldwide and over 150 million in US alone. Amazon has Thursday night football and clearly wants to get live sports content.
And appears to want higher profile live sports content than the MAC has available.
Quote: Netflix has over 230 million subscribers and earns almost $32 billion in revenue.
And in the first quarter of 2023 Netflix posted revenue growth, after revenue declines in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2022.
So, how much of that is from subscribers paying Netflix for live sports content?
Quote: Probably a matter of time before they get into live sports content.
Aha, so that would indicate none of it.
Quote: Apple TV is already doing live sports with MLB and MLS.
We are all watching to see if Apple TV gets into college sports with the PAC-12, and under what terms.
But until we have any indication that Netflix, AppleTV or Amazon wants Go5 football content, what we know that we have as an available alternative are the kinds of deals that CUSA has until there were able to strike a deal with CBS & ESPN.
Just because it would be nice if there was a bidder for MAC content with deep pockets, isn't on its own evidence that there is.
Sitting around and waiting is what has led to the MAC becoming stagnant. You go out and shoot your shot instead of "assuming" like you do that Netflix, Amazon, and Apple TV don't want G5 football. ESPN wanted G5 football and that was at the pinnacle of ESPN. Now they are on a downtrend.
Woopty-do, Netflix had negative subscriber growth for a couple quarters. They still have triple the subscribers as ESPN and have far more revenue than ESPN to spend on content.
Early bird gets the worm. You wait around and watch everyone else get deals and you get left behind. As the MAC already has...
I know all you old timers think ESPN is gods gift to MAC football but it's alright to move on. Guess what else used to be the best at its time...MTV. Now it's a shell of what it used to be.
I do agree with Steve. I see MAC leadership just re upping with espn. It's an easy lazy approach. Fitting for this conferences leadership which is old, stale, and low energy. Harsh but true.
(04-28-2023 08:00 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote: I'm guessing a Saturday MAC football game on Netflix, Amazon, or Apple would generate about 50,000 viewers at most. Why would they pay for that?
Only reason we draw the small audience we do is because of mid week maction.
Well if a company wants to break through into live sports streaming they may pay. Who knows. All I am asking is that MAC leadership does everything possible, knocks on every available door to grow the conference and revenue.
Chatted with a fella whose son was being recruited by MAC teams, GLIAC.
The recruit and parents are totally turned off by Maction. Empty stadiums, low energy.
This particular recruit chose GVSU.
Smaller yet packed stadiums, high energy, competing for championships.
Extremely small smole size but that's what parents and recruits are discussing.
Things need to drastically change for the MAC. It's slipping yet some don't want to acknowledge that fact
/
WKU and (name the school) to the MAC?
