Figure I'd start a new thread, since there's so much happening specific to changes in the CAA. Rumors are swirling around the other boards that all of the southern tier CAA teams, UNCW, W&M, CoC and Elon could be heading out to the Southern Conference.

While this would be pure disaster for the CAA, I'm starting to think that this could actually be good news for Drexel and their fans. Isn't this kind of what we've been wanting all along? This would be the chance for the CAA to rebuild as a mid-Atlantic or northern conference? Or does the CAA dissolve with the five remaining members looking for new homes?

I thought the around the NCAA was a fine thread, but this is fine too.

It would depend on what the CAA can grab from the AE, MAAC and Patriot. If those conferences and teams are reasonably happy where they are at, then the CAA will dissolve.

The SoCon has been pretty adamant in the past about not adding basketball only schools, which is why UNCG is available possibly to the CAA. I have a hard time seeing the SoCon grab those teams just to kill the CAA. While they would be a good geographical fit, I dont think their conference is so strong to absorb that many more mouths to feed. I think it is still more likely that the CAA adds a few schools to make a N/S divisional split.

Again, for it to happen, the league needs to be aggressive and proactive and not the typical reactive or else it will lose out in a bad way.

(10-29-2021 12:00 PM)dan10 Wrote:  I thought the around the NCAA was a fine thread, but this is fine too.

You started that thread as an off-topic thread to focus on the NCAA as a whole. It's a good thread if we want to discuss the Big Ten or the ACC or what not.

Things are getting crazy now that the CAA is directly affected. It's about as on-topic as we could possibly get.

I think, for Drexel specifically, losing the southern schools is risky but could work out pretty well. The core of Towson, Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra, and Northeastern, plus some schools that have been brought up in rumors like Howard, Monmouth, and Fairfield, could result in a pretty nice conference that Drexel should compete well in and one that shouldn't be dragged down too much by dead weight. It could also help from a fan engagement perspective to have more teams within driving distance. I doubt it touches the top-10 in RPI like the CAA did in its peak, but there would be a path forward for Drexel to make the best of it.

The worst case scenario would be the conference being unable to add anyone and dissolving, because then Drexel's on its own. The AE, Patriot, and MAAC all have either weight deader than anyone the CAA currently has, or schools a fifth our size. Delaware and Northeastern are great peers to have, and if the CAA dissolves, who knows if we end up where they do.

A good point got made on the UNCW board:

(10-29-2021 11:59 AM)82hawk Wrote:  If this happens, and as quickly as the speculation suggests, this has been in the making for awhile. Probably waiting for the inevitable departure of JMU.

The writing had been on the wall of JMU just waiting for their chance to move to FBS. If the CAA was proactive, they would have had a folder with "OPEN IN CASE OF JMU LEAVING" at the ready. If they didn't have a concrete plan, they've probably already lost.

Beyond history, our school doesnt have that much in common with Delaware. And with football being their top priority, I could easily see a situation where we split from them. To me the NU and HU's of the CAA are the ones we need to stay aligned with.

IMO, for as long as UD is in FCS, I want to be in the same conference as them, unless a perfect opportunity for us arises (i.e. a non-football conference below the A10 but above the AE/MAAC/Patriot). If they ever move up to FBS, I am happy for them to go their own way.

(10-29-2021 12:20 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Beyond history, our school doesnt have that much in common with Delaware. And with football being their top priority, I could easily see a situation where we split from them. To me the NU and HU's of the CAA are the ones we need to stay aligned with.

It's just a rivalry thing. Those of use who grew up in the Philadelphia region know that there are a lot of us who chose to attend college at Drexel or Delaware, and many students and alumni of these two schools are friends (or enemies). You're right that we have more in common with Hofstra and NU, but the rivalry significance with those two is not there. Drexel and Delaware are technically in the same media market, and are pretty close geographically.

i know some of us have had differences in the past...which is what's supposed to happen and it's happened much less often especially now that we have a title...but i just want to compliment everyone on being realistic.

i wandered back over to gohens.net for the first time in a while yesterday. one of them says their ultimate goal should be to join the acc. pigs will fly before they join the acc. they seemed to think they were already on equal footing with some of those schools. delaware is not north carolina, virginia, or maryland. it's a state you drive through on the way to those states.

again...appreciate you guys are grounded and intelligent. if anything we split hairs.

The ACC could implode and lose all their major brands to the SEC/Big 10/Big 12, and Delaware still wouldn't be on their short list. That is an impressive amount of self-delusion.

I think the difference is that the Drexel ethos completely embraces the underdog role. The choice to support Drexel carries with it the decision not to associate with the big boys like Penn State, Villanova, or Temple. We might not always agree on how Drexel can prove itself, but I think there's a common sense of appreciation for what Drexel's proven so far.

Delaware's a state flagship, and that comes with a different ethos. They're the big dog in the state, tiny as that state may be. Some fans let that get to their heads.

The SoCon taking the southern wing of the CAA would be a win for everyone

The northern 5 can rebuild as a private school heavy Northeastern based conference

Add Monmouth and Fairfield right off the bat and you got your minimum of 7. From there you pick from the MEAC,MAAC, AEast, NEC and maybe even the Patriot League. Hampton would probably still join if yall wanted school in Virginia

It's a win win

The problem is, unless you get a waiver, you need 6 for an autobid. If the five southern schools are all leaving, everyone else needs to find a home or you're locked out of March Madness.

I think that it's a bit delusional to think that AE members would leave AE to join AE 2.0 (literally). AE is now all medium sized public institutions and they seem to be on the same page. Remind me how 5 AE leftovers have the pull to rebuild another AE?

(10-29-2021 05:34 PM)mainejeff Wrote:  I think that it's a bit delusional to think that AE members would leave AE to join AE 2.0 (literally). AE is now all medium sized public institutions and they seem to be on the same page. Remind me how 5 AE leftovers have the pull to rebuild another AE?

First of all, welcome to our board, enjoy your stay.

Secondly, while I would not blame anyone in the America East for staying pat, I would also not be shocked if there were institutions interested in chasing a conference that's suddenly fairly geographically compact, with a Mid-Atlantic core of large institutions with fairly high endowments. Stony Brook remains a fit in terms of size, and UMBC would no longer be a geographic outlier. The most likely outcome is that they stay where they are, but it's certainly not delusional to think that they could jump. Especially compared to Delaware wanting to join the ACC.

(10-29-2021 04:13 PM)DrachenFire Wrote:  The problem is, unless you get a waiver, you need 6 for an autobid. If the five southern schools are all leaving, everyone else needs to find a home or you're locked out of March Madness.

Are you saying that the rule is that 6 teams must stay together for multiple years? Obviously the CAA won't survive as 5 schools and would need to bring more in. If 5 schools leave but 2-5 new schools join, then would the CAA be able to keep the auto bid?

I guess some of it may depend on timing. From the NCAA Bylaws:

Quote: 31.3.4.2 Requirements -- National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification in a National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (Note: A provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member may not be used to meet the requisite number.);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;
© There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.

Quote: 31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements -- Basketball. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in basketball, a member conference must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
31.3.4.4.1 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's membership to fall below seven institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together, provided the conference maintains at least six Division I members (see Bylaw 20.02.5). (Adopted: 4/27/00, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

Quote: 31.02.3 Core Conference. A core conference is a multisport conference that has been elected to membership and, as a result of legislation, is identified in the applicable sections of Constitution 4 related to representation in the NCAA governance structure. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

Quote: 20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).
20.02.5.3 Regular-Season Conference Competition. Multisport conference members shall participate in regular- season conference competition, subject to the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Basketball teams shall participate in a regular-season conference schedule of a double round robin, in-season competition, or a minimum of 14 regular-season conference contests;
(b) In football or in a minimum of two men's team sports other than men's basketball [as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2- (b)], teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue; and
© In a minimum of two women's team sports other than women's basketball (as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2), teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue.
20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/reports/getReport/90008

[quote='DrachenFire' pid='17793951' dateline='1635554293']
I guess some of it may depend on timing. From the NCAA Bylaws:

[quote] 31.3.4.2 Requirements -- National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification in a National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (Note: A provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member may not be used to meet the requisite number.);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;
© There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.[/quote]
[quote] 31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements -- Basketball. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in basketball, a member conference must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
31.3.4.4.1 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's membership to fall below seven institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together, provided the conference maintains at least six Division I members (see Bylaw 20.02.5). (Adopted: 4/27/00, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)[/quote]
[quote] 31.02.3 Core Conference. A core conference is a multisport conference that has been elected to membership and, as a result of legislation, is identified in the applicable sections of Constitution 4 related to representation in the NCAA governance structure. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)[/quote]
[quote] 20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).
20.02.5.3 Regular-Season Conference Competition. Multisport conference members shall participate in regular- season conference competition, subject to the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Basketball teams shall participate in a regular-season conference schedule of a double round robin, in-season competition, or a minimum of 14 regular-season conference contests;
(b) In football or in a minimum of two men's team sports other than men's basketball [as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2- (b)], teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue; and
© In a minimum of two women's team sports other than women's basketball (as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2), teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue.
20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11) [/quote]
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/reports/getReport/90008
[/quote

Any change to the above would of course mean that the universe had been rent asunder. Anyone advocating said change would of necessity have to be banned from employment in college athletics.

So reading through this....
5 schools leaving the CAA in the same year would not be a good thing for the conference. 6 teams do need to stay together. Now, I'm not convinced that all of these schools are actually going to bolt and it might just be more of an inquiry. Schools like Elon and W&M recruit and have large alumni bases from the Northeast. Elon specifically wanted to be connected to a Northeast based conference for that reason. Reduction of travel costs would really be the only legitimate reason why those 2 schools would want to bolt.

I read that Howard maybe move into the CAA as well

(10-29-2021 08:12 PM)Dragon For Life Wrote:  I read that Howard maybe move into the CAA as well

I'd be fine with that, but that might be a death sentence to the MEAC. It would mean that HBCU's can survive on their own and don't have to stick together in their own conference bubble. Howard is a top notch academic school ranked as the #2 HBCU in the country and would bring the CAA back to the DC market. I think that moving out of the MEAC might actually help improve their athletics.