They don’t have to do East West. They can get rid of divisions and get a waiver to play a CCG. You can protect three rivals with a 5/5 rotation. Keep it at 8 conference games and schedule OOC with the B1G, filling out with the Big 12/SBC/AAC. I’m not sure how many conference games they play now. Yes, flights will be required for northern vs southern schools.

(10-23-2021 05:05 PM)thrill_house Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So drop EMU, add WKU? I'd take that...

Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work. WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference and it's a good location for three MAC schools (Ohio, Miami, BSU).

Yea it would not be awesome for EMU (or Buffalo for that matter), but it's also not the worst thing in the world. The MAC would still be, for the most part, a "Bus league".

If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

It's not just for EMU, it's the bulk of the MAC teams. Central is about 2.5 hours from Toledo. Western about 2 hours. And if it's not the Michigan MAC schools, then it's Kent/Akron who get screwed out of their Toledo/BG games which are their closest geographical rivals they've been playing forever.

I don't know if you've actually done the logistics, but there isn't a single program who's travel time is cut down with these additions. Sure, the bi-annual crossover between our two outliers (NIU and Buffalo) goes to a "twice every 7 years" scenario, but every program who gets stuck with MTSU/WKU in their division trades 2 Ohio schools that are multiple hours closer. Not to mention they've been playing those programs for generations.

MTSU is a 6+ hour drive to 10/12 schools and WKU is a 6+ hour drive to 8/12 members of the conference (and that's being nice, it's 5.75 hours to BGSU and Ohio U). Meanwhile, if you removed NIU and Buffalo, every school would be within 6 hours of each other.

If any of the MAC programs would like to join a conference with WKU/MTSU, they are free to leave for C-USA. The MAC doesn't need 12 teams to have a conference and the departures of those programs would lower all of our travel costs.

Cutting travel time wouldnt really be the allure of adding WKU and MTS. The motivation would be to increase the footprint of the too concentrated MAC---but a reasonable footprint expansion. Pick up two more states---while adding similar peer quality football programs---and top of the pack basketball programs. The MAC doesnt NEED to add anyone----but those are pretty sensible additions for the MAC if it is interested in expansion. This is not something the MAC has spent a ton of time planning and studying. Instead----its more of an unexpected opportunity that seemingly has come out of nowhere.

(10-23-2021 06:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 05:05 PM)thrill_house Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So drop EMU, add WKU? I'd take that...

Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work. WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference and it's a good location for three MAC schools (Ohio, Miami, BSU).

Yea it would not be awesome for EMU (or Buffalo for that matter), but it's also not the worst thing in the world. The MAC would still be, for the most part, a "Bus league".

If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

It's not just for EMU, it's the bulk of the MAC teams. Central is about 2.5 hours from Toledo. Western about 2 hours. And if it's not the Michigan MAC schools, then it's Kent/Akron who get screwed out of their Toledo/BG games which are their closest geographical rivals they've been playing forever.

I don't know if you've actually done the logistics, but there isn't a single program who's travel time is cut down with these additions. Sure, the bi-annual crossover between our two outliers (NIU and Buffalo) goes to a "twice every 7 years" scenario, but every program who gets stuck with MTSU/WKU in their division trades 2 Ohio schools that are multiple hours closer. Not to mention they've been playing those programs for generations.

MTSU is a 6+ hour drive to 10/12 schools and WKU is a 6+ hour drive to 8/12 members of the conference (and that's being nice, it's 5.75 hours to BGSU and Ohio U). Meanwhile, if you removed NIU and Buffalo, every school would be within 6 hours of each other.

If any of the MAC programs would like to join a conference with WKU/MTSU, they are free to leave for C-USA. The MAC doesn't need 12 teams to have a conference and the departures of those programs would lower all of our travel costs.

Cutting travel time wouldnt really be the allure of adding WKU and MTS. The motivation would be to increase the footprint of the too concentrated MAC---but a reasonable footprint expansion. Pick up two more states---while adding similar peer quality football programs---and top of the pack basketball programs. The MAC doesnt NEED to add anyone----but those are pretty sensible additions for the MAC if it is interested in expansion. This is not something the MAC has spent a ton of time planning and studying. Instead----its more of an unexpected opportunity that seemingly has come out of nowhere.

Exactly, we fell in the MAC’s lap, and they don’t HAVE to add us… but if they did they would actually wind up with one of 2 top tier CUSA programs available that hasn’t been snatched up yet (the other being LT).

Plus there’s Nashville. It’s got to be tempting, but not necessary, for the MAC to expand this way.

(10-23-2021 05:05 PM)thrill_house Wrote:  I don't know if you've actually done the logistics, but there isn't a single program who's travel time is cut down with these additions.

There are no adds, anywhere, that will cut down on our logistics. But that's not an excuse to pretend it's 1980. Two schools that bend, but don't break, our conference footprint are solid adds in this day and age.

Here are the questions (WKU/MTSU):

1 - Do they improve our revenue sports - Yes
2 - Do they culturally fit our conference - Yes
3 - Do they add to our footprint without blowing it up - Yes
4 - Will the improve our media deals - TBD

If you want to only drive 2.5 hours to all your foes, drop to division III and be done with it.

(10-23-2021 06:55 PM)BKTopper Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 06:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 05:05 PM)thrill_house Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So drop EMU, add WKU? I'd take that...

Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work. WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference and it's a good location for three MAC schools (Ohio, Miami, BSU).

Yea it would not be awesome for EMU (or Buffalo for that matter), but it's also not the worst thing in the world. The MAC would still be, for the most part, a "Bus league".

If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

It's not just for EMU, it's the bulk of the MAC teams. Central is about 2.5 hours from Toledo. Western about 2 hours. And if it's not the Michigan MAC schools, then it's Kent/Akron who get screwed out of their Toledo/BG games which are their closest geographical rivals they've been playing forever.

I don't know if you've actually done the logistics, but there isn't a single program who's travel time is cut down with these additions. Sure, the bi-annual crossover between our two outliers (NIU and Buffalo) goes to a "twice every 7 years" scenario, but every program who gets stuck with MTSU/WKU in their division trades 2 Ohio schools that are multiple hours closer. Not to mention they've been playing those programs for generations.

MTSU is a 6+ hour drive to 10/12 schools and WKU is a 6+ hour drive to 8/12 members of the conference (and that's being nice, it's 5.75 hours to BGSU and Ohio U). Meanwhile, if you removed NIU and Buffalo, every school would be within 6 hours of each other.

If any of the MAC programs would like to join a conference with WKU/MTSU, they are free to leave for C-USA. The MAC doesn't need 12 teams to have a conference and the departures of those programs would lower all of our travel costs.

Cutting travel time wouldnt really be the allure of adding WKU and MTS. The motivation would be to increase the footprint of the too concentrated MAC---but a reasonable footprint expansion. Pick up two more states---while adding similar peer quality football programs---and top of the pack basketball programs. The MAC doesnt NEED to add anyone----but those are pretty sensible additions for the MAC if it is interested in expansion. This is not something the MAC has spent a ton of time planning and studying. Instead----its more of an unexpected opportunity that seemingly has come out of nowhere.

Exactly, we fell in the MAC’s lap, and they don’t HAVE to add us… but if they did they would actually wind up with one of 2 top tier CUSA programs available that hasn’t been snatched up yet (the other being LT).

Plus there’s Nashville. It’s got to be tempting, but not necessary, for the MAC to expand this way.

Exposure in the great markets of Bowling Green, Ky and Murfreesboro, TN.

Nashville doesnt care about MTSU.

(10-23-2021 05:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  They don’t have to do East West. They can get rid of divisions and get a waiver to play a CCG. You can protect three rivals with a 5/5 rotation.

That's fine if they deregulate the CCG, but if they don't, what would be the basis of a waiver?

Quote: Keep it at 8 conference games ...

Of course they will, same as the other Go5 conferences. Some schools schedule OOC 2 Go5, one home, one away, play away one P5 buy game, host one FCS bye game, others play 3 away P5 buy games, host one FCS bye game ... if the deal is "add two schools, oh and we are playing 9 conference games", that vote quickly becomes "no, we'll stay with 12".

(10-23-2021 05:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  They don’t have to do East West. They can get rid of divisions and get a waiver to play a CCG. You can protect three rivals with a 5/5 rotation. Keep it at 8 conference games and schedule OOC with the B1G, filling out with the Big 12/SBC/AAC. I’m not sure how many conference games they play now. Yes, flights will be required for northern vs southern schools.

You do not need a waiver to host a conference championship game with 8 full members. Although it has never been done, a conference justifiably can conduct a round-robin schedule where the two highest-ranked teams in the league can play in a separately scheduled conference championship game, OR the conference can split divisions as evenly as possible as long as there are at least 8 full members (so 4 and 4 is allowed) and play a full round-robin within the division, and the highest ranked team from each division plays in the conference championship game.

As proof of what I've said here, I am once again going to provide everyone with the direct source according to NCAA Division 1 Bylaw 17.11.6.2.1 Part (b) which says:

Quote:17.11.6.2.1 Bowl Subdivision. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, the maximum number of football contests shall exclude the following:...

(b) Conference Championship Game.

One conference championship game:

(1) Between division champions of a conference that is divided into two divisions (as equally balanced in number as possible) and conducts round-robin, regular-season competition in each division; or

(2) Between the top two teams in the conference standings following full round-robin regular-season competition among all members of the conference.

NCAA Division 1 Manual (Updated August 1, 2021)

(10-23-2021 07:31 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 06:55 PM)BKTopper Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 06:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 05:05 PM)thrill_house Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So drop EMU, add WKU? I'd take that...

Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work. WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference and it's a good location for three MAC schools (Ohio, Miami, BSU).

Yea it would not be awesome for EMU (or Buffalo for that matter), but it's also not the worst thing in the world. The MAC would still be, for the most part, a "Bus league".

If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

It's not just for EMU, it's the bulk of the MAC teams. Central is about 2.5 hours from Toledo. Western about 2 hours. And if it's not the Michigan MAC schools, then it's Kent/Akron who get screwed out of their Toledo/BG games which are their closest geographical rivals they've been playing forever.

I don't know if you've actually done the logistics, but there isn't a single program who's travel time is cut down with these additions. Sure, the bi-annual crossover between our two outliers (NIU and Buffalo) goes to a "twice every 7 years" scenario, but every program who gets stuck with MTSU/WKU in their division trades 2 Ohio schools that are multiple hours closer. Not to mention they've been playing those programs for generations.

MTSU is a 6+ hour drive to 10/12 schools and WKU is a 6+ hour drive to 8/12 members of the conference (and that's being nice, it's 5.75 hours to BGSU and Ohio U). Meanwhile, if you removed NIU and Buffalo, every school would be within 6 hours of each other.

If any of the MAC programs would like to join a conference with WKU/MTSU, they are free to leave for C-USA. The MAC doesn't need 12 teams to have a conference and the departures of those programs would lower all of our travel costs.

Cutting travel time wouldnt really be the allure of adding WKU and MTS. The motivation would be to increase the footprint of the too concentrated MAC---but a reasonable footprint expansion. Pick up two more states---while adding similar peer quality football programs---and top of the pack basketball programs. The MAC doesnt NEED to add anyone----but those are pretty sensible additions for the MAC if it is interested in expansion. This is not something the MAC has spent a ton of time planning and studying. Instead----its more of an unexpected opportunity that seemingly has come out of nowhere.

Exactly, we fell in the MAC’s lap, and they don’t HAVE to add us… but if they did they would actually wind up with one of 2 top tier CUSA programs available that hasn’t been snatched up yet (the other being LT).

Plus there’s Nashville. It’s got to be tempting, but not necessary, for the MAC to expand this way.

Exposure in the great markets of Bowling Green, Ky and Murfreesboro, TN.

Nashville doesnt care about MTSU.

Bigger than Bowling Green, Ohio.

Our fans fill Nissan, Vanderbilt Stadium and Bridgestone Arena. WKU alums all over Nashvegas metro.

(10-23-2021 08:13 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 05:25 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  They don’t have to do East West. They can get rid of divisions and get a waiver to play a CCG. You can protect three rivals with a 5/5 rotation. Keep it at 8 conference games and schedule OOC with the B1G, filling out with the Big 12/SBC/AAC. I’m not sure how many conference games they play now. Yes, flights will be required for northern vs southern schools.

You do not need a waiver to host a conference championship game with 8 full members. Although it has never been done, a conference justifiably can conduct a round-robin schedule where the two highest-ranked teams in the league can play in a separately scheduled conference championship game, OR the conference can split divisions as evenly as possible as long as there are at least 8 full members (so 4 and 4 is allowed) and play a full round-robin within the division, and the highest ranked team from each division plays in the conference championship game.

As proof of what I've said here, I am once again going to provide everyone with the direct source according to NCAA Division 1 Bylaw 17.11.6.2.1 Part (b) which says:

Quote:17.11.6.2.1 Bowl Subdivision. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, the maximum number of football contests shall exclude the following:...

(b) Conference Championship Game.

One conference championship game:

(1) Between division champions of a conference that is divided into two divisions (as equally balanced in number as possible) and conducts round-robin, regular-season competition in each division; or

(2) Between the top two teams in the conference standings following full round-robin regular-season competition among all members of the conference.

NCAA Division 1 Manual (Updated August 1, 2021)

Yes, I was aware of this rule and am suggesting that it is outdated and needs to be amended.

Based on the lack of smoke up north, I sense the MAC expansion interest is only on the KY/TN line.

(10-23-2021 09:07 PM)galojah Wrote:  Based on the lack of smoke up north, I sense the MAC expansion interest is only on the KY/TN line.

Yeah, if it’s a flat no, NMSU makes no sense for Comf USA. Go at it with FCS call ups out East (JSU, Kenesaw Etc). Let UTEP and NMSU build a Texas FCS conference and keep the moniker if they desire. LA Tech can go either way. There is no sense for schools like WKU and FIU to align themselves with UTEP. Work out a severance with UTEP and start anew.