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monarx Offline
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Post: #61
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:00 AM)Engblazr Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 09:57 AM)monarx Wrote:  This is still the best viable plan. It should have been done 5 years ago.

I absolutely would not want UAB in that

Really? Seems better than what you have now. A league with La Tech, LaLa, So Miss, Ark St, Troy and Rice seems like it would be a great thing for you.
10-13-2021 10:03 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #62
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 09:57 AM)monarx Wrote:  This is still the best viable plan. It should have been done 5 years ago.

This always makes more sense to the eastern schools than the schools near the dividing line. Why would UAB or USA or ASU want that? For them the geographies of the leagues (aside from UTEP that screws everything up) are not bad they are basically in the center. Their travel budgets probably go up from this not down.
10-13-2021 10:06 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #63
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:06 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 09:57 AM)monarx Wrote:  This is still the best viable plan. It should have been done 5 years ago.

This always makes more sense to the eastern schools than the schools near the dividing line. Why would UAB or USA or ASU want that? For them the geographies of the leagues (aside from UTEP that screws everything up) are not bad they are basically in the center. Their travel budgets probably go up from this not down.

I assume the new leagues would have E/W or N/S divisions as well. One would think UAB would prefer to play Troy, Ark St, LaLa and USA instead of UNT, UTEP, UTSA and Rice. USA and Troy would probably love to be a in a league with UAB, La Tech and SoMiss. App would probably prefer to play ODU, JMU, Marshall and Charlotte than USA, LaLa or Troy. Just makes perfect sense to me. Money is the only thing that keeps it from happening.
10-13-2021 10:15 AM
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BlazinBham Offline
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Post: #64
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:03 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:00 AM)Engblazr Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 09:57 AM)monarx Wrote:  This is still the best viable plan. It should have been done 5 years ago.

I absolutely would not want UAB in that

Really? Seems better than what you have now. A league with La Tech, LaLa, So Miss, Ark St, Troy and Rice seems like it would be a great thing for you.

We want nothing to do with Texas schools. There’s no intrigue to any of the matchups. They are better off playing each other and schools in the bordering states. We are better off playing schools in the south east. Those schools you listed not in Texas are garbage in hoops besides La Tech and we want no association with that.

AAC would hit a home run in taking a balanced approach in adding schools who are currently doing well in football and basketball. UAB, Marshall, La Tech, Liberty. First 3 are consistently at top of league. Liberty would have 3 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances if not for Covid.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 10:37 AM by BlazinBham.)
10-13-2021 10:31 AM
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HogDawg Offline
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Post: #65
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 09:57 AM)monarx Wrote:  This is still the best viable plan. It should have been done 5 years ago.

What is it with you people and the Sunbelt? That offers no value to the teams already in CUSA.
10-13-2021 10:33 AM
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GreenBison Offline
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Post: #66
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 08:26 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 07:19 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  
(10-12-2021 07:36 PM)freshtop Wrote:  
(10-12-2021 07:19 PM)bit_9 Wrote:  
(10-12-2021 05:29 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  Where did you get that from? lol

Countless discussions have been had on the countless numbers of realignment threads on this very page about the possibility of taking teams from this conference and one or two other conferences and realigning them in a regional fashion. So why is it so pathetic for C-USA's leadership to try and open up discussion on the same thing?
I'm with you. Looking at the other thread and many are gushing over this new west and east mashup. I guess there's an equal number who see the move as a white flag or sign of weakness, which I didn't see it as such. Doing nothing and exposing your belly and waiting is waving the white flag to me.

This is like asking the carjacker if he wants to carpool instead. Maybe he will say yes, but most likely you are losing your car. Doesn't hurt to ask I guess.

That analogy paints a better picture for the views. There's a pretty well rooted hierarchy at play and I guess I'm not looking through that lens. I think a lot of people look at the realignment stuff like a game of War. The bigger and stronger will always pick on the smaller and weaker so therefore that's the construct we've all bought into. Everybody BUT the AAC fans laughed at the "P6" narrative. When CUSA puts out a narrative that (shown by hundreds of posts on threads that support the concept) she's immediately portrayed as weak and ignorant. Seems odd to me. And we all see the death of college athletics playing out year over year and everyone outside the "cartel" calls it out. But soon as there's any leftover blood in the water everyone starts a feeding frenzy and literally helping the cartel in defining their narrative, like good little lemmings.

It's "weak and ignorant" because of when she proposed it. There has been like 8 years since the last time the Big East/AAC raided C-USA to propose to do this with the Sun-Belt. Instead when C-USA was clearly strong enough to raid the Sun-Belt that's exactly what C-USA did. If you proposed this to the Sun-Belt 3-5 years ago then it would have been coming from a very serious place of trying to do what is best for the schools and athletes.

The School Presidents proposed it. There has been discontent among School Presidents for some time now and I'd say COVID put everything under the spotlight last season. Everyone has had enough of being in a Texas Centric conference that does little to placate the Eastern schools.
10-13-2021 10:47 AM
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slycat Offline
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Post: #67
RE: FULL SURRENDER
It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 10:51 AM by slycat.)
10-13-2021 10:51 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #68
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:33 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 09:57 AM)monarx Wrote:  This is still the best viable plan. It should have been done 5 years ago.

What is it with you people and the Sunbelt? That offers no value to the teams already in CUSA.

I like La Tech and am glad to be in a league with you guys. But being in a conference with App, GSU, GaSo, (and Marshall & Charlotte) is more intriguing. Id take CCU too, but I really think they fall back down to earth in a couple seasons. They remind me a lot of ODU early on. When those players and coaches leave, things will get tough. But at least ODU typically brings good basketball.
10-13-2021 10:53 AM
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All4One Offline
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Post: #69
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:51 AM)slycat Wrote:  It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.

Just exactly who in CUSA allegedly gutted the WAC? I don't think you know your WAC history as much as you think you do.

And for the record, CUSA isn't worried about the Suck Belt gutting them.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 10:56 AM by All4One.)
10-13-2021 10:54 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #70
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:51 AM)slycat Wrote:  It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.

CUSA has been raided repeatedly over the years. Its just time to try something different, that is more sensible, fan friendly and economically viable for all. Nobody has to agree to it. Its just dumb not to unless the money issues cant be solved.
10-13-2021 10:55 AM
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HogDawg Offline
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Post: #71
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:54 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:51 AM)slycat Wrote:  It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.

Just exactly who in CUSA allegedly gutted the WAC? I don't think you know your WAC history as much as you think you do.

And for the record, CUSA isn't worried about the Suck Belt gutting them.

Apparently he does. He's obviously referring to the early 2000's when CUSA raided the WAC for SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and ultimately UTEP, which essentially destroyed the eastern WAC and left LA Tech stranded on an island. We LA Tech fans haven't forgotten about it either. 05-mafia
10-13-2021 11:00 AM
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All4One Offline
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Post: #72
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 11:00 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:54 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:51 AM)slycat Wrote:  It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.

Just exactly who in CUSA allegedly gutted the WAC? I don't think you know your WAC history as much as you think you do.

And for the record, CUSA isn't worried about the Suck Belt gutting them.

Apparently he does. He's obviously referring to the early 2000's when CUSA raided the WAC for SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and ultimately UTEP, which essentially destroyed the eastern WAC and left LA Tech stranded on an island. We LA Tech fans haven't forgotten about it either. 05-mafia

I feel the Mountain West was the true WAC slayer.
10-13-2021 11:10 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #73
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 11:10 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:00 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:54 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:51 AM)slycat Wrote:  It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.

Just exactly who in CUSA allegedly gutted the WAC? I don't think you know your WAC history as much as you think you do.

And for the record, CUSA isn't worried about the Suck Belt gutting them.

Apparently he does. He's obviously referring to the early 2000's when CUSA raided the WAC for SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and ultimately UTEP, which essentially destroyed the eastern WAC and left LA Tech stranded on an island. We LA Tech fans haven't forgotten about it either. 05-mafia

I feel the Mountain West was the true WAC slayer.

They fully killed it, but the C-USA raid of the early 00's is what left the league a complete geographic nightmare that set it up to be in a position to be killed. I also think that was a strategic mistake by the MWC to completely kill the WAC. Having them as a home out west to house and build up programs in the footprint that you can eventually add when needed has strategic value. Now despite the MWC not losing anyone you still hear the CSU/AFA AD's screaming they have to get into Texas because that's the only future avenue for them if they lose teams in the future aside from adding the "take only in case you are about to fold" schools of NMSU and UTEP.
10-13-2021 11:19 AM
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All4One Offline
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Post: #74
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 11:19 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:10 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:00 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:54 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:51 AM)slycat Wrote:  It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.

Just exactly who in CUSA allegedly gutted the WAC? I don't think you know your WAC history as much as you think you do.

And for the record, CUSA isn't worried about the Suck Belt gutting them.

Apparently he does. He's obviously referring to the early 2000's when CUSA raided the WAC for SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and ultimately UTEP, which essentially destroyed the eastern WAC and left LA Tech stranded on an island. We LA Tech fans haven't forgotten about it either. 05-mafia

I feel the Mountain West was the true WAC slayer.

They fully killed it, but the C-USA raid of the early 00's is what left the league a complete geographic nightmare that set it up to be in a position to be killed. I also think that was a strategic mistake by the MWC to completely kill the WAC. Having them as a home out west to house and build up programs in the footprint that you can eventually add when needed has strategic value. Now despite the MWC not losing anyone you still hear the CSU/AFA AD's screaming they have to get into Texas because that's the only future avenue for them if they lose teams in the future aside from adding the "take only in case you are about to fold" schools of NMSU and UTEP.

The Mountain West killed the WAC because BYU got together with Karl Benson and prominent WAC members to plot to overthrow the Mountain West. The secrecy of all of that was nuts. But had CUSA not added former WAC Quadrant 4 members, I don't know if the league would've survived. Could they have added UCF and Marshall and called it a day? I believe Tulane and Southern Miss objected to the extensive travel to places like UCF and East Carolina, so that's why CUSA brought in SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP to go to 12 and create a 2-division format. Had the NCAA not required the 12 members to split divisions then, I don't think UTEP or Tulsa gets added and probably not even SMU and Rice.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 11:31 AM by All4One.)
10-13-2021 11:30 AM
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slycat Offline
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Post: #75
RE: FULL SURRENDER
The WAC was targeted multiple times. CUSA first as mentioned above then recently the MWC put the knife in deep and CUSA took what was left aside from TXST, NMSU, and Idaho.

Then a bunch of SBC bailed and went to CUSA. This ended up doing the SBC a favor because the got stronger in the long run.

Now you have a bunch of SBC teams that feel the bridge was burned by those that left and the manner they left. WKU seems to be the one team anyone has an interest in at this point.

Teams like LaTech will forever look done on the SBC but it could cost them ending up in whatever is left of CUSA after realignment. If geographical realignment is going to happens a lot of schools are going to have to get over their petty fights with teams in their region. For now you have some SBC schools that don't want to reach back out to those that left them 10 years ago and you have teams like LaTech and UAB that think they are too good for some teams in their region or what their idea of region really is.

If UAB doesn't think they are a west team and the east doesn't see them are part of their side, then where do they fit? I think that is why regionalization is hard. The teams in the middle can see both sides differently. It also appears no one wants to be with Texas teams.
10-13-2021 11:51 AM
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HogDawg Offline
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Post: #76
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 11:30 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:19 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:10 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:00 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 10:54 AM)All4One Wrote:  Just exactly who in CUSA allegedly gutted the WAC? I don't think you know your WAC history as much as you think you do.

And for the record, CUSA isn't worried about the Suck Belt gutting them.

Apparently he does. He's obviously referring to the early 2000's when CUSA raided the WAC for SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and ultimately UTEP, which essentially destroyed the eastern WAC and left LA Tech stranded on an island. We LA Tech fans haven't forgotten about it either. 05-mafia

I feel the Mountain West was the true WAC slayer.

They fully killed it, but the C-USA raid of the early 00's is what left the league a complete geographic nightmare that set it up to be in a position to be killed. I also think that was a strategic mistake by the MWC to completely kill the WAC. Having them as a home out west to house and build up programs in the footprint that you can eventually add when needed has strategic value. Now despite the MWC not losing anyone you still hear the CSU/AFA AD's screaming they have to get into Texas because that's the only future avenue for them if they lose teams in the future aside from adding the "take only in case you are about to fold" schools of NMSU and UTEP.

The Mountain West killed the WAC because BYU got together with Karl Benson and prominent WAC members to plot to overthrow the Mountain West. The secrecy of all of that was nuts. But had CUSA not added former WAC Quadrant 4 members, I don't know if the league would've survived. Could they have added UCF and Marshall and called it a day? I believe Tulane and Southern Miss objected to the extensive travel to places like UCF and East Carolina, so that's why CUSA brought in SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP to go to 12 and create a 2-division format. Had the NCAA not required the 12 members to split divisions then, I don't think UTEP or Tulsa gets added and probably not even SMU and Rice.

That bolded part makes no sense. Essentially you're saying, "USM didn't like the long trips to ECU, so we sent them to El Paso!" 03-banghead
10-13-2021 11:52 AM
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All4One Offline
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Post: #77
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 11:52 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:30 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:19 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:10 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:00 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  Apparently he does. He's obviously referring to the early 2000's when CUSA raided the WAC for SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and ultimately UTEP, which essentially destroyed the eastern WAC and left LA Tech stranded on an island. We LA Tech fans haven't forgotten about it either. 05-mafia

I feel the Mountain West was the true WAC slayer.

They fully killed it, but the C-USA raid of the early 00's is what left the league a complete geographic nightmare that set it up to be in a position to be killed. I also think that was a strategic mistake by the MWC to completely kill the WAC. Having them as a home out west to house and build up programs in the footprint that you can eventually add when needed has strategic value. Now despite the MWC not losing anyone you still hear the CSU/AFA AD's screaming they have to get into Texas because that's the only future avenue for them if they lose teams in the future aside from adding the "take only in case you are about to fold" schools of NMSU and UTEP.

The Mountain West killed the WAC because BYU got together with Karl Benson and prominent WAC members to plot to overthrow the Mountain West. The secrecy of all of that was nuts. But had CUSA not added former WAC Quadrant 4 members, I don't know if the league would've survived. Could they have added UCF and Marshall and called it a day? I believe Tulane and Southern Miss objected to the extensive travel to places like UCF and East Carolina, so that's why CUSA brought in SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP to go to 12 and create a 2-division format. Had the NCAA not required the 12 members to split divisions then, I don't think UTEP or Tulsa gets added and probably not even SMU and Rice.

That bolded part makes no sense. Essentially you're saying, "USM didn't like the long trips to ECU, so we sent them to El Paso!" 03-banghead

In order to split divisions a conference was required to have 12 teams. Who else could CUSA add that the remaining 6 members would agree to? La Tech would've been ideal, but Tulane wouldn't allow it.
10-13-2021 11:55 AM
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Post: #78
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 10:51 AM)slycat Wrote:  It is just ironic that the conference and teams that had no problem with gutting the WAC and SBC are now begging to not have the same done to them.

I think that's what is missed on me in particular. I didn't watch college football until ODU started up football. I didn't even really start watching college basketball until about 2009 or so, and even then it was just the CAA teams. I don't have any deep hate or contempt for any particular conference, nobody's ever done me wrong. There's obviously way more of that among fans than I was aware of until all this major realignment stuff started up again and ODUs in the middle of it all. I care about the rivalries we can gain or build and making them meaningful. Does that mean Sunbelt, CUSA, or AAC? Whatever is best for the student athletes and fans, not the ego's of admin and conference officials and the pecking order the media companies have built. I'm obviously naïve to it all I guess. I need a interactive Game of Thrones like map that shows who burned who or who leap frogged so and so and hurt so and so's feelings x years ago.

At the end of the day
[Image: 5qaaa8.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 12:05 PM by bit_9.)
10-13-2021 11:57 AM
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HogDawg Offline
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Post: #79
RE: FULL SURRENDER
(10-13-2021 11:55 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:52 AM)HogDawg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:30 AM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:19 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:10 AM)All4One Wrote:  I feel the Mountain West was the true WAC slayer.

They fully killed it, but the C-USA raid of the early 00's is what left the league a complete geographic nightmare that set it up to be in a position to be killed. I also think that was a strategic mistake by the MWC to completely kill the WAC. Having them as a home out west to house and build up programs in the footprint that you can eventually add when needed has strategic value. Now despite the MWC not losing anyone you still hear the CSU/AFA AD's screaming they have to get into Texas because that's the only future avenue for them if they lose teams in the future aside from adding the "take only in case you are about to fold" schools of NMSU and UTEP.

The Mountain West killed the WAC because BYU got together with Karl Benson and prominent WAC members to plot to overthrow the Mountain West. The secrecy of all of that was nuts. But had CUSA not added former WAC Quadrant 4 members, I don't know if the league would've survived. Could they have added UCF and Marshall and called it a day? I believe Tulane and Southern Miss objected to the extensive travel to places like UCF and East Carolina, so that's why CUSA brought in SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP to go to 12 and create a 2-division format. Had the NCAA not required the 12 members to split divisions then, I don't think UTEP or Tulsa gets added and probably not even SMU and Rice.

That bolded part makes no sense. Essentially you're saying, "USM didn't like the long trips to ECU, so we sent them to El Paso!" 03-banghead

In order to split divisions a conference was required to have 12 teams. Who else could CUSA add that the remaining 6 members would agree to? La Tech would've been ideal, but Tulane wouldn't allow it.

I don't know about Tulane, but USM was a problem for sure. USM had an AD named Richard Giannini, who hated LA Tech, because he served in ULM's athletic department before arriving at USM in 1999. He was a flaming azzzhole. He wouldn't schedule OOC games with Tech and he certainly didn't want Tech in CUSA. Never mind, LA Tech would have been the perfect fit, geographically and peer wise. And Giannini damaged CUSA AND UTEP in the long run by promoting UTEP for membership instead of LA Tech. With all due respect to our UTEP brothers, Giannini & USM hurt CUSA, Tech and UTEP in the long run. I'm convinced, if not for Giannini, UTEP would be in the MWC today. It was a stupid, stupid thing to do.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 12:11 PM by HogDawg.)
10-13-2021 12:10 PM
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JCMiner Offline
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Post: #80
RE: FULL SURRENDER
Based on the comments you can tell which schools think they're leaving CUSA and which know they're staying.
10-13-2021 12:12 PM
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