(10-16-2021 06:00 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 05:39 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 05:34 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 05:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 04:24 PM)pesik Wrote:  Wichita only played 3 of its top 7 games
Houston played way more ..
Ps houston played @ Wichita and @smu ..houston only missed @memphis

Houston lost @ECU and @Tulsa...That is all that needs to be said.

Houston lost 2 games to the bottom of the league...To say you deserve to be champion losing those games is just dishonest.

The top 3 Memphis, Houston and WSU.

WSU played @ both of the other 2. Neither Memphis nor Houston did.

So lets say we say top 4...teams play all the games...

Say WSU goes 1-1 vs SMU...

Houston loses @Memphis and Memphis loses @WSU...Both likely possibilities.

WSU still wins.

Houston laid eggs against bad teams just like Memphis did...Those bad losses cost the teams the championship...

You are jumping between arguments and moving the goal post like crazy

Playing a harder schedule and deserving to win the conference title are 2 completely different arguments and a crazy level of moving the goal post

But your argument insanely flawed- your argument is based on the fact that Wichita lost to houston and Memphis … it ignores that SMU was #2 in the league till their Covid breaks,

And you picked a bunch of random game scenarios that would have had Wichita still the conference champions even though it doesn’t match any regulated odds
Houston would have been favored over Memphis even @memphis
Wichita lost to Cincy in a neutral game, one of their canceled games was @cincy
Even at SMU and Wichita going 1-1 would still have had houston at the title
Wichita best conference away win was UCF by 1 point

Did you play a harder schedule by playing more games at home...That is the point. That is why I brought up the road games.

And the games are not random...Those are the remaining games against the top 4 teams. The ones you mentioned above... You know your proof that Houstons road was tougher. WSU didn't lose @ home all year.

Finally are saying that you would bet Houston beating Memphis @ Memphis after watching the other two games.

And apparently that win @Tulsa was a tough win...Both Memphis and Houston couldn't do it.

If you are asking if I had to bet houston @ Memphis I’m betting houston.. I’m not saying it’s a lock or anything but I’m taking houston.. grimes would have had to be injured (like he was in the 2019 game ) for me to feel otherwise..
Close away games is not an indication wins in home games transitive properties doesn’t work like that.. houston was still lie 50 spots higher than Memphis in Kenpomat that time (in the regular season)
Houston blew out UCF away 2 seasons ago but they beat us at our place..

That game likely goes Memphis watching the remainder of the season...I think that is clear in hindsight...And Hindsight is more accurate...Not saying Kenpom was better at the time.

Bottom line is we are talking razor thin happenings for Houston to get the championship...It is not like WSU had a yellow brick paved road to the championship because of the schedule...that is the entire point.

Houston would have to win @ a rolling Memphis or WSU would need to lose @Cinci or @ECU. That doesn't indicate a schedule that was just so much easier it is the reason they won the conference.

What??? Why is that clear beside Memphis Homerism

Memphis entire season was on the line in a neutral game that meant nothing to houston (our send was locked in place) and houston won.. but you are assuming they would have won at home.. sports don’t work like that

I’m hoopvision (a deep analytic/fil breakdown YouTube channel) broke down the 2nd game it noted Memphis was only able to get an early lead running an abnormally high pick and roll that threw houston out the loop (couldnt run its monster defense properly), that the game was completely flipped as soon as houston figured it out.. that high pick and roll wasn’t going start working again in a 3rd game

(10-16-2021 06:11 PM)pesik Wrote:  What??? Why is that clear beside Memphis Homerism

Memphis entire season was on the line in a neutral game that meant nothing to houston (our send was locked in place) and houston won.. but you are assuming they would have won at home.. sports don’t work like that

I’m hoopvision (a deep analytic/fil breakdown YouTube channel) it notes Memphis was only able to get an early lead running an abnormally high pick and roll that threw houston out the loop (could run its monster defense properly), that the game was completely flipped as soon as houston figured it out.. that high pick and roll wasn’t going start working again in a 3rd game

Lol...

So the point is that only Houston adjusts...Gotcha. Come on really.

You clearly see that the schedules weren't the reason that WSU won the conference.

Houston\Memphis Losing to the bottom of the league and WSU not doing that is the reason they won the league.

And during your deep analytics...Why was Houston 41-29 @ the half of the second game. So when did they shutdown that high pick and roll to turn the game...Memphis outscored houston by 10 in the 2nd half.

You are really reaching

(10-16-2021 06:14 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 06:11 PM)pesik Wrote:  What??? Why is that clear beside Memphis Homerism

Memphis entire season was on the line in a neutral game that meant nothing to houston (our send was locked in place) and houston won.. but you are assuming they would have won at home.. sports don’t work like that

I’m hoopvision (a deep analytic/fil breakdown YouTube channel) it notes Memphis was only able to get an early lead running an abnormally high pick and roll that threw houston out the loop (could run its monster defense properly), that the game was completely flipped as soon as houston figured it out.. that high pick and roll wasn’t going start working again in a 3rd game

Lol...

So the point is that only Houston adjusts...Gotcha. Come on really.

You clearly see that the schedules weren't the reason that WSU won the conference.

Houston\Memphis Losing to the bottom of the league and WSU not doing that is the reason they won the league.

Sampson at this point in his career adjusts better than penny .. only Memphis fandom would deny that.. penny himself wouldn’t deny that .. penny in the interview I just posted with grimes noted he regularly calls Sampson for advice

It make no “real world” sense to think because we played them close in a neutral game we’d have beat them in a away game.. when that team is top 10 and you are unranked
I’m no trolling, if there was a 3rd game @memphis I and most people would bet houston.. no one is saying a guaranteed houston win but houston would be favored

(10-16-2021 06:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 06:14 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 06:11 PM)pesik Wrote:  What??? Why is that clear beside Memphis Homerism

Memphis entire season was on the line in a neutral game that meant nothing to houston (our send was locked in place) and houston won.. but you are assuming they would have won at home.. sports don’t work like that

I’m hoopvision (a deep analytic/fil breakdown YouTube channel) it notes Memphis was only able to get an early lead running an abnormally high pick and roll that threw houston out the loop (could run its monster defense properly), that the game was completely flipped as soon as houston figured it out.. that high pick and roll wasn’t going start working again in a 3rd game

Lol...

So the point is that only Houston adjusts...Gotcha. Come on really.

You clearly see that the schedules weren't the reason that WSU won the conference.

Houston\Memphis Losing to the bottom of the league and WSU not doing that is the reason they won the league.

Sampson at this point in his career adjusts better than penny .. only Memphis fandom would deny that.. penny himself wouldn’t deny that .. penny in the interview I just posted with grimes noted he regularly calls Sampson for advice

It make no “real world” sense to think because we played them close in a neutral game we’d have beat them in a away game.. when that team is top 10 and you are unranked
I’m no trolling, if there was a 3rd game @memphis I and most people would bet houston.. no one is saying a guaranteed houston win but houston would be favored

When was that adjustment made...

Houston was up by 12 at the half...

Memphis outscored them by 10 in the second half. Seems like that analysis that you are referencing makes very little sense unless you are saying when Houston Made the adjustment it turned the game in Memphis' favor.

Also who said the Adjustment at halftime??? You added context I never said.. you are literally the one reaching

(10-16-2021 06:26 PM)pesik Wrote:  Also who said the Adjustment at halftime??? You added context I never said.. you are literally the one reaching

No you said an adjustment was made and it completely flipped the game...

Quote:it notes Memphis was only able to get an early lead running an abnormally high pick and roll that threw houston out the loop (could run its monster defense properly), that the game was completely flipped as soon as houston figured it out.. that high pick and roll wasn’t going start working again in a 3rd game

You are full of crap...Memphis' biggest lead in the first half was 7-4...Surely you would know when this adjustment was made since you quoted it and said it wouldn't work again.

Keep backpedaling.

(10-16-2021 06:39 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 06:26 PM)pesik Wrote:  Also who said the Adjustment at halftime??? You added context I never said.. you are literally the one reaching

No you said an adjustment was made and it completely flipped the game...

Quote:it notes Memphis was only able to get an early lead running an abnormally high pick and roll that threw houston out the loop (could run its monster defense properly), that the game was completely flipped as soon as houston figured it out.. that high pick and roll wasn’t going start working again in a 3rd game

You are full of crap...Memphis' biggest lead in the first half was 7-4...Surely you would know when this adjustment was made since you quoted it and said it wouldn't work again.

Keep backpedaling.

im confused here, are you upset that I didn’t add super context to my post

Houston was destroying Memphis, the Memphis utilized unique pick and roll in the 2nd half to grab lead, houston figured it out and flips the game back in control
Your upset that I didn’t include that houston was destroying Memphis at the start of the game , when that had nothing to do with my point…

My point- Memphis kept running one type of play and that’s what kept them in it.. but houston figured it out before the game was over, so it wouldn’t even have mattered in a 3rd game
I’ll post the video when I get home, I’m on the road right now

The fact that houston was destroying Memphis before it actually helps my point, so I don’t get why you needed to add that context

(10-16-2021 06:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  l

Houston would have to win @ a rolling Memphis or WSU would need to lose @Cinci or @ECU. That doesn't indicate a schedule that was just so much easier it is the reason they won the conference.

Also houston played @wichita it wasn’t a cancelled game

And again houston would have been favored over Memphis - houston was top 5 in Kenyon and Memphis was in the 60s in the regular season

If houston would have beaten Memphis .. the game that houston would have been favored in…
Wichita would have had to win EVERY game im about to list: SMU, @SMU, @Cincy, vs Memphis

I’d bet money houston would have beaten Memphis.. I’d have bet money Wichita would only win at most 2 ..

This is the silly part of your post you think Memphis was guaranteed “clearly” going to beat a top 5 houston team.. but at the same time stating they’d have lost to an unranked Wichita you already beat by 20

(10-16-2021 04:58 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 07:08 PM)pesik Wrote:  troll houston bias.. he regularly posts make troll posts towards Houston in an attempt to rile up Houston fans ..
(bias wasnt "for Wichita", it was to troll houston)

and it was cincy fans who started this mess, they are the ones who came in with claims Wichita played a tougher schedule..
nobody is blaming Wichita, point to anywhere that Wichita is being blamed, the entire debate has acknowledged wichita was the champion by all sides...the parts debated was that wichita played a harder schedule (brought in by cincy fans)..and that there was no schedule benefit given to Wichita (again cincy fans)..neither were true
none of it started by me

No he doesn't

I'd rather troll ECU and Temple fans. I think I'm mostly positive about Houston, though I will admit to dropping a random line to get Pesik going. Most the other Houston fans seem to get it.

(10-16-2021 09:50 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 04:58 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 07:08 PM)pesik Wrote:  troll houston bias.. he regularly posts make troll posts towards Houston in an attempt to rile up Houston fans ..
(bias wasnt "for Wichita", it was to troll houston)

and it was cincy fans who started this mess, they are the ones who came in with claims Wichita played a tougher schedule..
nobody is blaming Wichita, point to anywhere that Wichita is being blamed, the entire debate has acknowledged wichita was the champion by all sides...the parts debated was that wichita played a harder schedule (brought in by cincy fans)..and that there was no schedule benefit given to Wichita (again cincy fans)..neither were true
none of it started by me

No he doesn't

I'd rather troll ECU and Temple fans. I think I'm mostly positive about Houston, though I will admit to dropping a random line to get Pesik going. Most the other Houston fans seem to get it.

Wait, is that what you do? I thought you liked us! Anyway, congratulations on starting the worst off topic thread derailment ever.

(10-17-2021 07:57 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 09:50 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 04:58 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 07:08 PM)pesik Wrote:  troll houston bias.. he regularly posts make troll posts towards Houston in an attempt to rile up Houston fans ..
(bias wasnt "for Wichita", it was to troll houston)

and it was cincy fans who started this mess, they are the ones who came in with claims Wichita played a tougher schedule..
nobody is blaming Wichita, point to anywhere that Wichita is being blamed, the entire debate has acknowledged wichita was the champion by all sides...the parts debated was that wichita played a harder schedule (brought in by cincy fans)..and that there was no schedule benefit given to Wichita (again cincy fans)..neither were true
none of it started by me

No he doesn't

I'd rather troll ECU and Temple fans. I think I'm mostly positive about Houston, though I will admit to dropping a random line to get Pesik going. Most the other Houston fans seem to get it.

Wait, is that what you do? I thought you liked us! Anyway, congratulations on starting the worst off topic thread derailment ever.

Oh course I like you. Even Miggy.

(10-16-2021 04:01 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 03:47 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(10-14-2021 02:39 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(10-14-2021 02:34 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I love that the Houston fan is telling me to remove my bias here. I said during the 2000 season I thought last year's Houston team would be final four caliber. I said they were final four caliber all last season. I've repeatedly spoken highly of Houston and Sampson's program.

I also said repeatedly last year I thought WSU was really an NIT caliber team, but their close game success (or some would say luck) gave them an NCAA tournament resume. I wasn't exactly singing the praises of that WSU team.

But because I don't buy his self serving argument that WSU only won the conference because Houston was screwed by the schedule gods (they weren't) I need to "remove the bias and answer honestly".

Pesik is one of my favorite posters who speak intelligent about a ton of basketball issues, but nobody clings to a self serving argument against all evidence quite the way he does.

there is obvious bias in this argument fron you..

all you had to say was Wichita played the schedule it was given..and that would have been the end of the debate

you came in strong saying they played a tougher schedule (which was just incorrect) then twisted it to say there was no benefit.. when there obviously was

again you could have just said it doesn't matter what the benefits are, or if Houston played a tougher schedule.. Wichita can only play the games it was given... then that's it
you are the one trying to add all these illogical tidits

Why would he have a bias towards WSU?

Good Lord P. Just drop it already. You’re the one who started this mess.

Don’t worry. Nobody is saying that WSU was better than Houston or even Memphis for that matter. But they won the conference based on the season that presented itself. And everybody knew the protocol going into last year. So just stop with the scheduling thing. If Houston doesn’t drop a turd at ECU, then it’s not a issue. Stop blaming WSU for something your team could have controlled.

troll houston bias.. he regularly posts make troll posts towards Houston in an attempt to rile up Houston fans ..
(bias wasnt "for Wichita", it was to troll houston)

and it was cincy fans who started this mess, they are the ones who came in with claims Wichita played a tougher schedule..
nobody is blaming Wichita, point to anywhere that Wichita is being blamed, the entire debate has acknowledged wichita was the champion by all sides...the parts debated was that wichita played a harder schedule (brought in by cincy fans)..and that there was no schedule benefit given to Wichita (again cincy fans)..neither were true
none of it started by me

No you started it with your whole quotation of WSU’s “conference championship”. Why again were those necessary if there never was a question about them deserving to win it?

(10-17-2021 09:19 AM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 04:01 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(10-16-2021 03:47 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(10-14-2021 02:39 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(10-14-2021 02:34 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I love that the Houston fan is telling me to remove my bias here. I said during the 2000 season I thought last year's Houston team would be final four caliber. I said they were final four caliber all last season. I've repeatedly spoken highly of Houston and Sampson's program.

I also said repeatedly last year I thought WSU was really an NIT caliber team, but their close game success (or some would say luck) gave them an NCAA tournament resume. I wasn't exactly singing the praises of that WSU team.

But because I don't buy his self serving argument that WSU only won the conference because Houston was screwed by the schedule gods (they weren't) I need to "remove the bias and answer honestly".

Pesik is one of my favorite posters who speak intelligent about a ton of basketball issues, but nobody clings to a self serving argument against all evidence quite the way he does.

there is obvious bias in this argument fron you..

all you had to say was Wichita played the schedule it was given..and that would have been the end of the debate

you came in strong saying they played a tougher schedule (which was just incorrect) then twisted it to say there was no benefit.. when there obviously was

again you could have just said it doesn't matter what the benefits are, or if Houston played a tougher schedule.. Wichita can only play the games it was given... then that's it
you are the one trying to add all these illogical tidits

Why would he have a bias towards WSU?

Good Lord P. Just drop it already. You’re the one who started this mess.

Don’t worry. Nobody is saying that WSU was better than Houston or even Memphis for that matter. But they won the conference based on the season that presented itself. And everybody knew the protocol going into last year. So just stop with the scheduling thing. If Houston doesn’t drop a turd at ECU, then it’s not a issue. Stop blaming WSU for something your team could have controlled.

troll houston bias.. he regularly posts make troll posts towards Houston in an attempt to rile up Houston fans ..
(bias wasnt "for Wichita", it was to troll houston)

and it was cincy fans who started this mess, they are the ones who came in with claims Wichita played a tougher schedule..
nobody is blaming Wichita, point to anywhere that Wichita is being blamed, the entire debate has acknowledged wichita was the champion by all sides...the parts debated was that wichita played a harder schedule (brought in by cincy fans)..and that there was no schedule benefit given to Wichita (again cincy fans)..neither were true
none of it started by me

No you started it with your whole quotation of WSU’s “conference championship”. Why again were those necessary if there never was a question about them deserving to win it?

i literally explained it to you earlier.. it wasnt questioning the championship... but "why would you feel disrespected" for not being treated like the top dog in the next years poll when there were unique circumstances

wsu noted in media day interviews, how they won the league but still being ranked lower in the polls, .. this context should have been obvious with my full quote

i was questioning why theyd feel like they are the top dogs, not that they didnt win the league... my point- it was obvious wichita wasnt going to be treated like the top dog

you are just trying to find ways to twist this back on me... i didnt start this