(11-09-2021 09:12 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 08:13 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 07:44 AM)wmmii Wrote:  Just think at one time we regularly played ACC teams as part of the goal former President Paschall had of us joining the ACC until new President Graves in 1971 changed course....shows what PERMANENT impact a new President can have. IMO what a shame...

Without the gravy train of decades of ACC money pouring in and propelling athletics, Wake Forest easily could be Campbell, High Point, or UNC Pembroke (NC colleges around 7k enrollment). I see no reason to think that W&M couldn't have ridden that same wave if they were involved from the beginning. These ACC programs thought of as blue bloods weren't blue bloods in 1971.

See bold. Not quite accurate. UNC, UVa, Maryland all thought themselves to be superior to their Southern Conference brethren back in 1953. That is why they broke away to form their own league with state schools (VA, MD, SC, NC), a few other North Carolina schools (to solidify the North Carolina base of the league), and a power football school (Clemson). So, even then, the ACC thought that they were better than any of their southern/eastern peers.

I wonder if the ACC would have thrived as it has if it added W&M. We would have been a drag on its basketball and football prowess. It's fair to ask whether GA Tech and FSU would have joined the ACC in the early '90s if we were around.

(11-09-2021 09:21 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  I wonder if the ACC would have thrived as it has if it added W&M. We would have been a drag on its basketball and football prowess. It's fair to ask whether GA Tech and FSU would have joined the ACC in the early '90s if we were around.

Why do you think W&M would have been any more of a drag than Wake has been. In the years before the ACC (late 40's early 50's), both schools performed similarly in the southern conference. To Wakes benefit, they had one of their best basketball seasons right before the inception of the ACC in 1953. They weren't as good before and they werent as good after. From a football standpoint, W&M traditionally had accomplished much more than Wake had to that point.

(11-09-2021 09:38 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 09:21 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  I wonder if the ACC would have thrived as it has if it added W&M. We would have been a drag on its basketball and football prowess. It's fair to ask whether GA Tech and FSU would have joined the ACC in the early '90s if we were around.

Why do you think W&M would have been any more of a drag than Wake has been. In the years before the ACC (late 40's early 50's), both schools performed similarly in the southern conference. To Wakes benefit, they had one of their best basketball seasons right before the inception of the ACC in 1953. They weren't as good before and they werent as good after. From a football standpoint, W&M traditionally had accomplished much more than Wake had to that point.

Wake thrived in the ACC because of its proximity to the other Tobacco Road schools.

I think there’s a decent chance WM does fine in the ACC in an alternate timeline; the profile and character of the university are forever altered and many of us (me included) aren’t posting here.

Wake is going to be breaking in a whole new roster tomorrow night. Play half-decent defense and take care of the ball & that will be enough to run with them.

(11-09-2021 09:41 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Wake thrived in the ACC because of its proximity to the other Tobacco Road schools.

This is absolutely true. Being under 2 hours away from half of your conference is a big thing and probably led to the invite. However, W&M fits in the footprint just as well and is situated perfectly between the NC block and the northern UMD and UVA. Bottom line is, I'm sure W&M had reservations and Wake jumped in with both feet.

(11-09-2021 09:54 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 09:41 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Wake thrived in the ACC because of its proximity to the other Tobacco Road schools.

This is absolutely true. Being under 2 hours away from half of your conference is a big thing and probably led to the invite. However, W&M fits in the footprint just as well and is situated perfectly between the NC block and the northern UMD and UVA. Bottom line is, I'm sure W&M had reservations and Wake jumped in with both feet.

There was also the matter of our tiny football stadium. In the late 60's, Wake expanded their stadium to fit ACC-size crowds. W&M's plan to enlarge Cary Field until it basically abutted Bryan Complex was doomed from the start.

(11-09-2021 10:04 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 09:54 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 09:41 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Wake thrived in the ACC because of its proximity to the other Tobacco Road schools.

This is absolutely true. Being under 2 hours away from half of your conference is a big thing and probably led to the invite. However, W&M fits in the footprint just as well and is situated perfectly between the NC block and the northern UMD and UVA. Bottom line is, I'm sure W&M had reservations and Wake jumped in with both feet.

There was also the matter of our tiny football stadium. In the late 60's, Wake expanded their stadium to fit ACC-size crowds. W&M's plan to enlarge Cary Field until it basically abutted Bryan Complex was doomed from the start.

Wake and W&M resembled each other the summer of 1952 before the formation of the ACC. By the late 1960's, those paths had completely gone in different directions.

(11-09-2021 10:09 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 10:04 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 09:54 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 09:41 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Wake thrived in the ACC because of its proximity to the other Tobacco Road schools.

This is absolutely true. Being under 2 hours away from half of your conference is a big thing and probably led to the invite. However, W&M fits in the footprint just as well and is situated perfectly between the NC block and the northern UMD and UVA. Bottom line is, I'm sure W&M had reservations and Wake jumped in with both feet.

There was also the matter of our tiny football stadium. In the late 60's, Wake expanded their stadium to fit ACC-size crowds. W&M's plan to enlarge Cary Field until it basically abutted Bryan Complex was doomed from the start.

Wake and W&M resembled each other the summer of 1952 before the formation of the ACC. By the late 1960's, those paths had completely gone in different directions.

The demarcation point in the early '50s had a lot to do with our big academic cheating scandal. If that had not happened, maybe we would have gone to the ACC.

(11-09-2021 10:17 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  The demarcation point in the early '50s had a lot to do with our big academic cheating scandal. If that had not happened, maybe we would have gone to the ACC.

I thought a cheating scandal was a prerequisite for the ACC

One Wake-centric Preview
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn/...lliam-mary

Gonna need a big game from Wight with Harvey unable to play. And looks like it'll be a trial by fire for Hatton.

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(11-09-2021 12:45 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  Gonna need a big game from Wight with Harvey unable to play. And looks like it'll be a trial by fire for Hatton.

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Hatton has good hands and footwork.

The WM athletics cheating scandal of the early 50s lead to the reduction in athletics scholarships across the board. After winning two NCAA titles in Men's tennis in the late 40s, WM didn't offer any tennis scholarships for more than 20 years. No way WM was going to be included in the ACC when it was formed.

Additionally, Gene Hooks the WF AD was playing golf every week with the ADs from State, UNC, and Duke.

Our history of poor athletic leadership goes back a long time.

FYI that the posted game notes for the game tomorrow list our probable starters as:

Rice, Covington, Kochera, Blair and Wight

(11-09-2021 09:12 AM)Zorch Wrote:  ... That is why they broke away to form their own league with state schools (VA, MD, SC, NC), a few other North Carolina schools (to solidify the North Carolina base of the league), and a power football school (Clemson). ...

(11-09-2021 01:15 PM)TribeDeac Wrote:  The WM athletics cheating scandal of the early 50s lead to the reduction in athletics scholarships across the board. After winning two NCAA titles in Men's tennis in the late 40s, WM didn't offer any tennis scholarships for more than 20 years. No way WM was going to be included in the ACC when it was formed.

Additionally, Gene Hooks the WF AD was playing golf every week with the ADs from State, UNC, and Duke.

Our history of poor athletic leadership goes back a long time.

W&M cheating scandal and sports de-emphasis and the puny Cary Field ...Yes, TribeFan1983 and TribeDeac, plus the bold from above, have covered the bases. UNC wanted a NC-centric league that could control (out-vote) the other state's schools. Four of the eight teams being from N.C. would ensure the bloc could not be outvoted. Also, don't forget that W&M was quite good before the scandal (from cheating or otherwise) and I'm sure UNC didn't want to be outshone by a small school from Virginia. Lastly, keep in mind that perhaps UVa wasn't too vigorous in supporting W&M either because I'm sure that they wanted to be the only Virginia school in the ACC (don't forget that in later years UVa blackballed Va. Tech for decades until Governor Mark Warner stepped in). I agree with A Quest Called Tribe that had W&M joined the ACC in either 1953 or in the '70s that the institution would not resemble what it does today.

(11-09-2021 12:45 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  Gonna need a big game from Wight with Harvey unable to play. And looks like it'll be a trial by fire for Hatton.

What's wrong with Harvey? You know, once, just once in my lifetime, I would like to see our basketball (or football) team start a season with everybody healthy.

EDIT: Okay, never mind. I see on the other thread that Harvey has been suspended for the first semester. Does that mean that everyone else IS healthy and I get my wish?

(11-09-2021 01:41 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 12:45 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  Gonna need a big game from Wight with Harvey unable to play. And looks like it'll be a trial by fire for Hatton.

What's wrong with Harvey? You know, once, just once in my lifetime, I would like to see our basketball (or football) team start a season with everybody healthy.

EDIT: Okay, never mind. I see on the other thread that Harvey has been suspended for the first semester. Does that mean that everyone else IS healthy and I get my wish?

The only player who did not dress last Wednesday night for the practice and scrimmage was Jake, and he did not look like anything was noticeably wrong with him.

(11-09-2021 01:27 PM)Naptown Tribe Wrote:  FYI that the posted game notes for the game tomorrow list our probable starters as:

Rice, Covington, Kochera, Blair and Wight

I'll be curious to see how much this starting lineup changes throughout the season, and what our rotation winds up looking like. I thought Carroll might start, to add a little more experience

(11-09-2021 01:27 PM)Naptown Tribe Wrote:  FYI that the posted game notes for the game tomorrow list our probable starters as:

Rice, Covington, Kochera, Blair and Wight

If only someone had suggested this might be the starting lineup.....

Strange enough, Wake's game notes have Carroll starting and not Rice.

Their projected lineup goes:
6'2"
6'5"
6'8"
6'8
7'0"