In 1979, the Big East was formed with basketball as its core mission. Today, the league plows on in on an in altered, but stable, condition.

As I look across the D-1 landscape east of the Mississippi, I see a lot of non-FBS basketball conferences. I would argue the best is probably the A-10. However, after that a lot of the better mid-major programs are spread out among various leagues.

Why can't they come together just as the original Big East members did to form a mid-major super league?

I understand they would need a waiver from the NCAA to get an AQ bid, but if the ensuing realignment resulted in the same number of conferences (32), I don't see the waiver being an issue.

Who would comprise this league?

I would have a 12-team league with no schools that play FBS football.

Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:
Belmont
Murray State
Vermont
FGCU
Winthrop
College of Charleston
Monmouth
Iona
Siena
Chattanooga
UNC Greensboro
Wofford

I think this league would be similar to the MVC: most years a two-bid league.

What do you think?

Travel costs would be insane for these schools.

(09-21-2021 09:16 PM)VCE Wrote:  Travel costs would be insane for these schools.

I really wouldn't be much worse than for schools in the WCC.

(09-21-2021 09:11 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  In 1979, the Big East was formed with basketball as its core mission. Today, the league plows on in on an in altered, but stable, condition.

As I look across the D-1 landscape east of the Mississippi, I see a lot of non-FBS basketball conferences. I would argue the best is probably the A-10. However, after that a lot of the better mid-major programs are spread out among various leagues.

Why can't they come together just as the original Big East members did to form a mid-major super league?

I understand they would need a waiver from the NCAA to get an AQ bid, but if the ensuing realignment resulted in the same number of conferences (32), I don't see the waiver being an issue.

Who would comprise this league?

I would have a 12-team league with no schools that play FBS football.

Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:
Belmont
Murray State
Vermont
FGCU
Winthrop
College of Charleston
Monmouth
Iona
Siena
Chattanooga
UNC Greensboro
Wofford

I think this league would be similar to the MVC: most years a two-bid league.

What do you think?

Lots of solid programs on this list. But I likely would have Boston University and American University. Not sure which two schools I would drop to stay at 12.

(09-21-2021 09:20 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 09:16 PM)VCE Wrote:  Travel costs would be insane for these schools.

I really wouldn't be much worse than for schools in the WCC.

With the dearth of schools in the west, the WCC members don’t have much of a choice.

(09-21-2021 09:11 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:
Belmont
Murray State
Vermont
FGCU
Winthrop
College of Charleston
Monmouth
Iona
Siena
Chattanooga
UNC Greensboro
Wofford

Monmouth, UT-Chattanooga, Murray State, and Wofford all play 63-scholarship football.

(09-21-2021 10:07 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 09:11 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:
Belmont
Murray State
Vermont
FGCU
Winthrop
College of Charleston
Monmouth
Iona
Siena
Chattanooga
UNC Greensboro
Wofford

Monmouth, UT-Chattanooga, Murray State, and Wofford all play 63-scholarship football.

Shizzle noted that don't play FBS football, DFW Hoya. But if I dropped the four that play FCS football, I might add Boston U., American U., Drexel and Canisius.

(09-21-2021 09:11 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  In 1979, the Big East was formed with basketball as its core mission. Today, the league plows on in on an in altered, but stable, condition.

As I look across the D-1 landscape east of the Mississippi, I see a lot of non-FBS basketball conferences. I would argue the best is probably the A-10. However, after that a lot of the better mid-major programs are spread out among various leagues.

Why can't they come together just as the original Big East members did to form a mid-major super league?

I understand they would need a waiver from the NCAA to get an AQ bid, but if the ensuing realignment resulted in the same number of conferences (32), I don't see the waiver being an issue.

Who would comprise this league?

I would have a 12-team league with no schools that play FBS football.

Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:

Belmont
Bellarmine
Stetson
FGCU
Winthrop
Samford
Jacksonville
Mercer
Lipscomb
Chattanooga
ETSU
Furman
the Citadel

I think it has potential, but needs altering.
Mine has 13, but a lot of very strong basketball and baseball. Could be a Big East-lite, or at very least an A-10-lite

Too many publics, not enough rich kid schools, and not urban enough.

Northeastern
Drexel
Fordham or Hofstra
Howard
Loyola Chicago
St. Thomas
Belmont
Denver

They can hold a beauty pageant to get to 10.

(09-22-2021 12:22 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 09:11 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  In 1979, the Big East was formed with basketball as its core mission. Today, the league plows on in on an in altered, but stable, condition.

As I look across the D-1 landscape east of the Mississippi, I see a lot of non-FBS basketball conferences. I would argue the best is probably the A-10. However, after that a lot of the better mid-major programs are spread out among various leagues.

Why can't they come together just as the original Big East members did to form a mid-major super league?

I understand they would need a waiver from the NCAA to get an AQ bid, but if the ensuing realignment resulted in the same number of conferences (32), I don't see the waiver being an issue.

Who would comprise this league?

I would have a 12-team league with no schools that play FBS football.

Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:

Belmont
Bellarmine
Stetson
FGCU
Winthrop
Samford
Jacksonville
Mercer
Lipscomb
Chattanooga
ETSU
Furman
the Citadel

I think it has potential, but needs altering.
Mine has 13, but a lot of very strong basketball and baseball. Could be a Big East-lite, or at very least an A-10-lite

My nephew recently asked me why he had to read the Pokémon book I got him backwards. What just happened here?

(09-22-2021 12:48 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  Too many publics, not enough rich kid schools, and not urban enough.

Northeastern
Drexel
Fordham or Hofstra
Howard
Loyola Chicago
St. Thomas
Belmont
Denver

They can hold a beauty pageant to get to 10.

Holy Cross maybe

So the "mini-Big East" is basically the A-10. Just a few public members but largely made up of private universities across the mid-Atlantic and Midwest now.

But I'd propose a Southern version, the Magnolia League...I don't believe that any A-10 or Patriot League schools would actually depart for this, since those members rely heavily on student recruiting in the north, but this would be fun nevertheless:

George Washington
American
Howard
Richmond
William & Mary
Davidson
College of Charleston
Belmont
Wofford
Furman
Mercer
Samford/Bellarmine (maybe Saint Louis) -- a great fit here would be Emory, which is current Division III


Both public universities act like private schools, so I don't really see an institutional mismatch in the league.

(09-22-2021 12:48 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  Too many publics, not enough rich kid schools, and not urban enough.

Northeastern
Drexel
Fordham or Hofstra
Howard
Loyola Chicago
St. Thomas
Belmont
Denver

They can hold a beauty pageant to get to 10.

I think you're on the right track.

Assuming A-10 and Patriot League schools are off the table, I could see a league combining several privates from the CAA and MVC plus a few others:

Northeastern
Drexel
Hofstra
Elon
Loyola Chicago
Drake
Valparaiso
Detroit
Belmont
Towson
William & Mary
Delaware

To be honest, I had it in my head that the CAA was more disjointed due to the defections from that league over the years, but in looking at the lineup again, the schools still fit together fairly well. I'm not sure if this proposed league makes so much more sense for the CAA and MVC schools compared to their current situations, but it's an interesting exercise.

(09-22-2021 08:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 12:48 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  Too many publics, not enough rich kid schools, and not urban enough.

Northeastern
Drexel
Fordham or Hofstra
Howard
Loyola Chicago
St. Thomas
Belmont
Denver

They can hold a beauty pageant to get to 10.

I think you're on the right track.

Assuming A-10 and Patriot League schools are off the table, I could see a league combining several privates from the CAA and MVC plus a few others:

Northeastern
Drexel
Hofstra
Elon
Loyola Chicago
Drake
Valparaiso
Detroit
Belmont
Towson
William & Mary
Delaware

To be honest, I had it in my head that the CAA was more disjointed due to the defections from that league over the years, but in looking at the lineup again, the schools still fit together fairly well. I'm not sure if this proposed league makes so much more sense for the CAA and MVC schools compared to their current situations, but it's an interesting exercise.

I agree, the CAA is an eclectic in a way that almost feels coherent. My assumption is that a Big East-lite conference would emerge as a marriage of uppity private mid-majors that see a benefit to having a presence in major and growing metro areas (hence my inclusion of Denver and St. Thomas). Ideally they would grab a couple in the south, but beyond Belmont, there aren't many schools that fit the mold. Trinity would be a great fit from an institutional perspective, but they're D3.

It's very difficult to recreate the genius of Dave Gavitt and the Big East.

The original seven schools were independents, leaders in their TV markets, and those with a basketball emphasis. But had they formed in 1969 instead of 1979, the list might easily had been Holy Cross, Rutgers, Fordham, NYU, St. Bonaventure, St. Joseph's, and Temple.

Schools with conference ties tends to clog up the wheels of realignment. Realistically, though, the best scenario for this argument is to cleave the Atlantic 10 into midwest and northeast conferences and fill in the gaps.

The "Metro" conference (for old times sake) would include St. Louis, Dayton, Detroit, Loyola-Chicago, Bradley, Duquesne, and two TBA.

The "Eastern 8" would include George Washington, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Fordham, Holy Cross, UMass, URI, and St. Bonaventure.

Schools outside Washington DC (George Mason, Richmond, Davidson, VCU) would move to the CAA.

(09-22-2021 01:34 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  It's very difficult to recreate the genius of Dave Gavitt and the Big East.

The original seven schools were independents, leaders in their TV markets, and those with a basketball emphasis. But had they formed in 1969 instead of 1979, the list might easily had been Holy Cross, Rutgers, Fordham, NYU, St. Bonaventure, St. Joseph's, and Temple.

Schools with conference ties tends to clog up the wheels of realignment. Realistically, though, the best scenario for this argument is to cleave the Atlantic 10 into midwest and northeast conferences and fill in the gaps.

The "Metro" conference (for old times sake) would include St. Louis, Dayton, Detroit, Loyola-Chicago, Bradley, Duquesne, and two TBA.

The "Eastern 8" would include George Washington, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Fordham, Holy Cross, UMass, URI, and St. Bonaventure.

Schools outside Washington DC (George Mason, Richmond, Davidson, VCU) would move to the CAA.

And with those hypothetical groupings, Belmont could (in theory) be part of either the "Metro" league or the CAA.

I sometimes find myself as concerned about Belmont's future as I do Memphis' long-term prospects. I'm not overly optimistic for either.

The Big East was a miracle, never to be repeated. It was unique of its time and place. It certainly had its flaws but what Dave Gavitt did was amazing – probably the most impressive thing I’ve ever seen in college athletics. In 1985, when the Big East had three of the Final Four and nearly had all four of the FF, that was just a ludicrous achievement for a nine-team league.

And the Big East basketball tournament was the most amazing college sporting event I’ve ever been to and I’ve been to plenty of big-time college football atmospheres over the years. MSG on a Saturday night was just a uniquely remarkable experience.

My team (Pitt) is in the ACC now and it is genuinely shocking to everyone I know how much of a drop off the conference tournament experiences have been. Now, in fairness, Pitt has sucked while it’s been in the ACC. However, that doesn’t really matter. You’re talking about midtown Manhattan versus going to some waffle house in North Carolina. It’s just not even on the same planet.

I have never been to the Rose Bowl but listening to Big Ten fans talk about the magic of the Rose Bowl reminds me a lot of BE fans talking about MSG. They were just far away better than everything else in the sport and of course there was a lot of pride associated with that.

What made MSG so amazing is that most of the schools were within driving distance of New York City so you would end up with a cauldron of different fan bases and it was interesting watching alliances form and pure hatred. Everyone hated Connecticut fans. Literally, everyone rooted against UConn. Those fans were very obnoxious. However, those teams were always good and that made it fun.

This league would never work because it would be too cost prohibitive relative to the revenue generated.

(09-21-2021 09:11 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  In 1979, the Big East was formed with basketball as its core mission. Today, the league plows on in on an in altered, but stable, condition.

As I look across the D-1 landscape east of the Mississippi, I see a lot of non-FBS basketball conferences. I would argue the best is probably the A-10. However, after that a lot of the better mid-major programs are spread out among various leagues.

Why can't they come together just as the original Big East members did to form a mid-major super league?

I understand they would need a waiver from the NCAA to get an AQ bid, but if the ensuing realignment resulted in the same number of conferences (32), I don't see the waiver being an issue.

Who would comprise this league?

I would have a 12-team league with no schools that play FBS football.

Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:
Belmont
Murray State
Vermont
FGCU
Winthrop
College of Charleston
Monmouth
Iona
Siena
Chattanooga
UNC Greensboro
Wofford

I think this league would be similar to the MVC: most years a two-bid league.

What do you think?

Why would you assume that?

(09-22-2021 05:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 09:11 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  In 1979, the Big East was formed with basketball as its core mission. Today, the league plows on in on an in altered, but stable, condition.

As I look across the D-1 landscape east of the Mississippi, I see a lot of non-FBS basketball conferences. I would argue the best is probably the A-10. However, after that a lot of the better mid-major programs are spread out among various leagues.

Why can't they come together just as the original Big East members did to form a mid-major super league?

I understand they would need a waiver from the NCAA to get an AQ bid, but if the ensuing realignment resulted in the same number of conferences (32), I don't see the waiver being an issue.

Who would comprise this league?

I would have a 12-team league with no schools that play FBS football.

Preferably schools that don't play football or play non-scholarship.

So here are my twelve:
Belmont
Murray State
Vermont
FGCU
Winthrop
College of Charleston
Monmouth
Iona
Siena
Chattanooga
UNC Greensboro
Wofford

I think this league would be similar to the MVC: most years a two-bid league.

What do you think?

Why would you assume that?

Because that would be a better line-up than the MVC, which generally gets 2 teams in.

Why are people want to keep creating new conferences like the old Big East? Schools with football have different agendas than non-football schools. CAA and MVC is heading down the same path as the old Big East as we speak.