(10-06-2021 12:57 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(10-05-2021 11:46 AM)Win5002 Wrote:  

(09-10-2021 06:30 PM)knightmite Wrote:  

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

Whatever ESPN and Fox compensates us to do. I'd prefer to stay at 12 for awhile until we nail down the financials. Then add 2 more if financially feasible.

Just curious as an Iowa State fan, does UCF want another school in their region so they are not on an island so to speak in the B12? I know there has been bad blood with USF in the past but is that enough to want to say isolated?

The new B12 is quite a bit different from the old B12. The old B12 had two huge brands in UT & OU that represented about 50% of the league value as everyone knows. I was really never for expansion then unless OU & UT were clearly supporting expansion which they never did.

But now its a lot different. The median value is so much closer that the additional inventory of games gives and time windows(especially late night starts and week day games) probably provides extra value to the network contracts.

This is also where I think it is very important to strengthen existing teams instead of spreading out too far. Memphis strengthens WVU & Cincy, and UCF to a smaller degree since they have existing history.

BSU helps BYU with a rival and provides the league an additional late night start time slot to sell. As well as BSU has always done well ratings wise against lesser opponents.

The team that I at first glance thought, no way but now see the reasons for considering as #15 or #16 is SMU. It strengthens rivalry games against 5 Texahoma games and helps the ticket sales of especially all Texas teams. It also intensifies the Texas media coverage of the team, and that is really essential for this league. The school also has money and that bodes well for SMU making the necessary investments and advertising revenue for the league.

UCF would rather be on an island than have usf be in the conference. Would it be the worst thing in the world? No, but we can cover both media markets adequately, there’s a lot of UCF alumni in Tampa, and we generally have about the same if not more of our fans when we play them in the Bucs stadium.

I personally like Memphis and SMU or Memphis and Colorado State. Memphis is the no brained, but SMU is also committed to win at a high level and invest in their program, and it’s showing. Their fanbase will get bigger over time as they continue to win. Colorado State has everything except on field success, so I feel that they would be a very good project for the B12.

Interesting, I wonder if most UCF fans and more importantly their school feels this way.

I think you need another eastern team in Memphis but Boise St. does so much better ratings wise than SMU & CSU. I am starting to see why Sicem 365 has mentioned SMU in a 16 team league though.

(10-06-2021 03:08 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  

(10-06-2021 12:57 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(10-05-2021 11:46 AM)Win5002 Wrote:  

(09-10-2021 06:30 PM)knightmite Wrote:  

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

Whatever ESPN and Fox compensates us to do. I'd prefer to stay at 12 for awhile until we nail down the financials. Then add 2 more if financially feasible.

Just curious as an Iowa State fan, does UCF want another school in their region so they are not on an island so to speak in the B12? I know there has been bad blood with USF in the past but is that enough to want to say isolated?

The new B12 is quite a bit different from the old B12. The old B12 had two huge brands in UT & OU that represented about 50% of the league value as everyone knows. I was really never for expansion then unless OU & UT were clearly supporting expansion which they never did.

But now its a lot different. The median value is so much closer that the additional inventory of games gives and time windows(especially late night starts and week day games) probably provides extra value to the network contracts.

This is also where I think it is very important to strengthen existing teams instead of spreading out too far. Memphis strengthens WVU & Cincy, and UCF to a smaller degree since they have existing history.

BSU helps BYU with a rival and provides the league an additional late night start time slot to sell. As well as BSU has always done well ratings wise against lesser opponents.

The team that I at first glance thought, no way but now see the reasons for considering as #15 or #16 is SMU. It strengthens rivalry games against 5 Texahoma games and helps the ticket sales of especially all Texas teams. It also intensifies the Texas media coverage of the team, and that is really essential for this league. The school also has money and that bodes well for SMU making the necessary investments and advertising revenue for the league.

UCF would rather be on an island than have usf be in the conference. Would it be the worst thing in the world? No, but we can cover both media markets adequately, there’s a lot of UCF alumni in Tampa, and we generally have about the same if not more of our fans when we play them in the Bucs stadium.

I personally like Memphis and SMU or Memphis and Colorado State. Memphis is the no brained, but SMU is also committed to win at a high level and invest in their program, and it’s showing. Their fanbase will get bigger over time as they continue to win. Colorado State has everything except on field success, so I feel that they would be a very good project for the B12.

Interesting, I wonder if most UCF fans and more importantly their school feels this way.

I think you need another eastern team in Memphis but Boise St. does so much better ratings wise than SMU & CSU. I am starting to see why Sicem 365 has mentioned SMU in a 16 team league though.

Yes, I’d say a majority of UCF fans either want to leave them behind permanently or are indifferent. We now have a big recruiting advantage over them, and I doubt we’d want to lose that. I also don’t think it would help the league much because they have a small fanbase, don’t hold their market at all, don’t have good facilities, and haven’t really had much on field success. I’d much rather have Memphis as our “rival” in the league.

Suffice to say that UCF has found a rival wherever we've been. Marshall in the MAC and CUSA. ECU in CUSA. Tulsa in CUSA and the AAC. So while USF may be the only rival that will survive realignment, someone in the Big 12 will become a rival to UCF.

Perhaps West Virginia...they had some great Big East battles against USF. Or perhaps Texas Tech. Who knows...it will develop based on playing games and having those games matter.

Geography and history are definitely factors for rivalries, but so is on the field/court competition. The new Big XII will develop its own history and rivalries will emerge.

With or without USF, UCF is basically on an Island. Doesn't matter who else we play is most likely is a Plane ride.

I would suggest South Florida and Colorado State as possible expansion with Air Force, Army and Navy as strong possibilities.

(10-05-2021 11:46 AM)Win5002 Wrote:  

(09-10-2021 06:30 PM)knightmite Wrote:  

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

Whatever ESPN and Fox compensates us to do. I'd prefer to stay at 12 for awhile until we nail down the financials. Then add 2 more if financially feasible.

Just curious as an Iowa State fan, does UCF want another school in their region so they are not on an island so to speak in the B12? I know there has been bad blood with USF in the past but is that enough to want to say isolated?

The new B12 is quite a bit different from the old B12. The old B12 had two huge brands in UT & OU that represented about 50% of the league value as everyone knows. I was really never for expansion then unless OU & UT were clearly supporting expansion which they never did.

But now its a lot different. The median value is so much closer that the additional inventory of games gives and time windows(especially late night starts and week day games) probably provides extra value to the network contracts.

This is also where I think it is very important to strengthen existing teams instead of spreading out too far. Memphis strengthens WVU & Cincy, and UCF to a smaller degree since they have existing history.

BSU helps BYU with a rival and provides the league an additional late night start time slot to sell. As well as BSU has always done well ratings wise against lesser opponents.

The team that I at first glance thought, no way but now see the reasons for considering as #15 or #16 is SMU. It strengthens rivalry games against 5 Texahoma games and helps the ticket sales of especially all Texas teams. It also intensifies the Texas media coverage of the team, and that is really essential for this league. The school also has money and that bodes well for SMU making the necessary investments and advertising revenue for the league.

Honestly, UCF doesn’t need usf for travel or regional partners. The AAC is the only time we’ve ever had an in conference regional rival. We’re used to being on an island, so it’s really not that big of a deal. They really don’t bring anything to the table objectively.

Whatever we end up with, we need to do like the SEC and only play 8 Conference games, with a patsy late in the season.
Personally, I prefer to stay at 12 unless we can get the Arizona schools. No more AAC, we got the best

My opinion would be to stay at 12 for 5 years or so and see if we're in a position to pull teams from the Pac 12 or ACC when their TV deals get close. I think the ACC is on borrowed time with their TV deal being the lowest of the P5 conferences (we'll see what the Big 12 is able to get moving forward) and no remedy in sight to keep up with the other conferences. That said they do have their GOR through '35 so they have the time to find a fix, I just don't know if there will be one available. And we'll see what the Pac 12 does, we know USC isn't happy with their not so subtle public messages.

And I completely agree with the other UCF posters about not wanting usf in. I'd rather be on an island by ourselves than on an island with usf.

The smart move is to stick with 12 and watch and wait. If a school or two emerges as a strong candidate then you open up discussions. But for now, there’s nothing about Memphis, USF, SMU, Colorado St, or Boise St that screams MUST ADD NOW.

(09-09-2021 03:33 PM)HAL 9100 Wrote:  The biggest mistake for the American was letting the basketball schools take the Big East brand. The “P6” fight would’ve been much easier if we had kept the Big East because people would still recognize it as a BCS conference. Once you change your brand, then you change your image and it could be for the worse. No one is pushing to change the Big 10 despite having 14 schools. People know the Big 12 as a P5 brand more than they know what schools are inside it and that’s not something to throw away.

I agree 1000%! Do not mess with the big12 brand. It must stay.

Big mistake on the part of Aresco to sell the Big East name.

(09-09-2021 03:33 PM)HAL 9100 Wrote:  The biggest mistake for the American was letting the basketball schools take the Big East brand. The “P6” fight would’ve been much easier if we had kept the Big East because people would still recognize it as a BCS conference. Once you change your brand, then you change your image and it could be for the worse. No one is pushing to change the Big 10 despite having 14 schools. People know the Big 12 as a P5 brand more than they know what schools are inside it and that’s not something to throw away.

Well they can’t do big 14 since the big 12 owns the rights to that name.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

I don't think they hurt themselves in giving up the name. It paid a bunch of money to $$$ starved AAC. BE name was junk for FB at that point.

I see no real reason to expand beyond 12. Is it going to result in more money for the 12? Probably not. How does it help UCF to add USF? How does it help TCU to add SMU? How does it help BYU to add Boise? How does it help Cincinnati to add Memphis? Aside from one game?

I think if the addition opens up new markets, it makes sense to expand. That kind of makes SMU and USF no gos. I wouldn't mind Memphis being added or Colorado St. as those two give us access to two new markets.

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(01-03-2022 06:35 PM)uhmump95 Wrote:  I think if the addition opens up new markets, it makes sense to expand. That kind of makes SMU and USF no gos. I wouldn't mind Memphis being added or Colorado St. as those two give us access to two new markets.

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Those markets would be unlikely to make the 12 others any money, so is it really worth it to add those schools if it takes away from the current (new) 12 schools?

(01-03-2022 07:47 PM)cc22 Wrote:  

(01-03-2022 06:35 PM)uhmump95 Wrote:  I think if the addition opens up new markets, it makes sense to expand. That kind of makes SMU and USF no gos. I wouldn't mind Memphis being added or Colorado St. as those two give us access to two new markets.

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Those markets would be unlikely to make the 12 others any money, so is it really worth it to add those schools if it takes away from the current (new) 12 schools?

They have the potential to grow and have a good foothold on their markets and eventually make money. Memphis basketball dominates their market, and CSU only has CU to compete with for the most part.

Boise State is fun, but she's not the girl you bring home to mom. Colorado State has a much higher ceiling and a less offensive stadium (blue turf- barf). Football just needs a makeover and hopefully Norvell can deliver.

Other pros:

Land Grant Ag school. That kind of cultural fit is attractive to fellow land grants ISU, KSU, OSU, & WVU. Tech also has an ag program.

Denver > Boise. If you remember Sonny Lubick, you know he had Colorado State rolling. Fans will show up for a winner with a more attractive schedule. And Denver has a lot more potential fans.

Geographic proximity. Don't forget there are sports besides football, and we'll be shipping kids to Morgantown, Orlando, Provo, and Ames. I'd prefer to reclaim old Big 12 territory.


I also would support Memphis:

I like the Liberty Bowl. It just needs some updating. Hey, FedEx: would you like to be an official sponsor of the Big 12? Memphis is already near the middle of the conference map and the state of Tennessee could easily support another Power 5 school. I believe Penny Hardaway will have that basketball program rolling once he figures out how to get blue chip Prima Donnas to play consistently as a team.

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

I think once OUT are out we should just stay the course. I hope with P5 level the new adds will be more valuable which will mean additions are not as necessary.

(01-12-2022 05:07 PM)CYOWA Wrote:  Boise State is fun, but she's not the girl you bring home to mom. Colorado State has a much higher ceiling and a less offensive stadium (blue turf- barf). Football just needs a makeover and hopefully Norvell can deliver.

Other pros:

Land Grant Ag school. That kind of cultural fit is attractive to fellow land grants ISU, KSU, OSU, & WVU. Tech also has an ag program.

Denver > Boise. If you remember Sonny Lubick, you know he had Colorado State rolling. Fans will show up for a winner with a more attractive schedule. And Denver has a lot more potential fans.

Geographic proximity. Don't forget there are sports besides football, and we'll be shipping kids to Morgantown, Orlando, Provo, and Ames. I'd prefer to reclaim old Big 12 territory.


I also would support Memphis:

I like the Liberty Bowl. It just needs some updating. Hey, FedEx: would you like to be an official sponsor of the Big 12? Memphis is already near the middle of the conference map and the state of Tennessee could easily support another Power 5 school. I believe Penny Hardaway will have that basketball program rolling once he figures out how to get blue chip Prima Donnas to play consistently as a team.

I agree on all these points. They have the potential to have P5 athletic programs, unfortunately I don’t think Boise does. However, I think we should wait for those programs to emerge before we think about adding them.