Should UNCW work to get to the minimum needed for NCAA and Title IX requirements?

In May 2013 the plan was to cut M Indoor Track, M Cross Country, M/W Swimming and Softball.

This would have left UNCW with 6 M Sports and 8 W Sports, the NCAA minimum

That lasted about 2 weeks and Chancellor Miller vetoed pulling the trigger on that. M Indoor Track was still dropped in February 2014 for Title IV reasons, but that really didn't effect much since everyone that ran and coached Outdoor Track ran and coached for Indoor Track.

Going into Fall 2014, UNCW 8 M Sports and 10 W Sports.

Then after Chancellor Miller left in the summer of 2014, a second attempt was made to reduce the number of sports.

In December 2014, attempts were made under the Interim Chancellor to cut 4 sports, M Outdoor T&F, W Indoor & Outdoor T&F, and M Cross Country while adding W Beach Volleyball for Title IX compliance

This would have left UNCW with 6 M Sports and 9 W Sports, 1 W sport above the NCAA minimum, but enough to keep UNCW in compliance with Title IX due to the female heavy ratio we have.

The Interim chancellor put up a fight but in February 2015, he allowed the programs to stay with strict fundraising deadlines. They met the first and most crucial deadline and were reinstated allowing a continuation with missing a season. When Chancellor Sartarelli took office, he permanently reinstated them and W Beach Volleyball came to be.

Now we are at 8 M Sports and 11 W Sports.

Here is a good article on the situation prior to track reinstation
https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a2...ave-their/

Here is a good article on the conclusion and where we are now.
https://www.wect.com/story/29750023/uncw...einstated/

Yes, absolutely. Not even a question in mind. It was a mistake when we opted NOT to cut those 5 programs when we had the chance.

I hate to see programs get cut at any time, but its the reality of the situation. Just too many teams with too much travel expenditures to justify.

(05-20-2021 09:49 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Yes, absolutely. Not even a question in mind. It was a mistake when we opted NOT to cut those 5 programs when we had the chance.

I hate to see programs get cut at any time, but its the reality of the situation. Just too many teams with too much travel expenditures to justify.

Wow! To be completely honest, I was expecting you to get mad at me for starting this thread, so thank you for your reply.

We did cut one of the 5 programs, M Indoor Track, but the other 4 M Cross County, Softball, and M/W Swimming and Diving remain.

Isn't M/W Swimming and Diving self sufficient now with the endowment that was set up by Coach Allen?

Softball is a very expensive sport to run with lots of travel, are they self sufficient with the fundraising they did?

Did Save UNCW Track ever deliver on the $1M promised?

I know cutting sports is a very difficult topic in general, but then when you throw in diversity demographic dynamics and title IX requirements, it gets very difficult

(05-20-2021 10:35 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 09:49 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Yes, absolutely. Not even a question in mind. It was a mistake when we opted NOT to cut those 5 programs when we had the chance.

I hate to see programs get cut at any time, but its the reality of the situation. Just too many teams with too much travel expenditures to justify.

Wow! To be completely honest, I was expecting you to get mad at me for starting this thread, so thank you for your reply.

We did cut one of the 5 programs, M Indoor Track, but the other 4 M Cross County, Softball, and M/W Swimming and Diving remain.

Isn't M/W Swimming and Diving self sufficient now with the endowment that was set up by Coach Allen?

Softball is a very expensive sport to run with lots of travel, are they self sufficient with the fundraising they did?

Did Save UNCW Track ever deliver on the $1M promised?

I know cutting sports is a very difficult topic in general, but then when you throw in diversity demographic dynamics and title IX requirements, it gets very difficult

There may have been one time I supported trying to keep programs no matter what, but that is long gone for me. I was supportive of cutting the programs at the time Gary Miller proposed it, and didn't think it made much sense to save them.

If these programs are indeed self-sufficient, that would change things a good bit in my mind. I don't follow them closely enough to know. While I support UNCW athletics in general I really only focus on the sports where I actually work the events: Baseball, Men's and Women's Basketball, Men's and Women's Soccer and Volleyball. And back when I used to work at Softball games, that program as well. So I have a bias towards those programs for sure.

A better decision would be to cut travel by joining a conference that makes some sense for a UNCW and that is not the CAA. The CAA is practically speaking a out right disaster for UNCW and has been for years. Join a regional conference and put a bad chapter in the rear view mirror.

(05-20-2021 04:24 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  A better decision would be to cut travel by joining a conference that makes some sense for a UNCW and that is not the CAA. The CAA is practically speaking a out right disaster for UNCW and has been for years. Join a regional conference and put a bad chapter in the rear view mirror.

Absolutely. But until we do that, you have to work with what you have. And right now that's too many teams in a conference that is stretched too far. The quicker we can get out, the better.

I do not agree with dropping softball. Too much private money has been given to improving the program and the facilities. We are finally reaching the point where we can compete in recruiting and on the field. If softball is dropped, we will lose financial supporters. We may have already lost supporters in baseball due to way longtime donors were pushed out of their seats and into the bleachers. Then allowing parents only to sit in the seated sections. Parents are here for 3 to 4 years. Where donors have been here for decades. It doesn't pay to piss off the hands that feed you.

Cut the fat or switch conferences. Feelings are feelings. Numbers are facts. If we’re red lining thanks to certain sports... they should go.


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(05-20-2021 09:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Cut the fat or switch conferences. Feelings are feelings. Numbers are facts. If we’re red lining thanks to certain sports... they should go.


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Softball is not causing us to redline anymore than the years men's basketball has. Men's basketball has been in the red many times. So let's just drop sports all together, bring DePaul back and be strictly a liberal arts school. Softball actually draws a decent crowd now. They have a more consistent fan base than volleyball and tennis. Maybe even soccer. I'm not sure because I quit going. It was all I could do to make it to halftime. Just too boring for me.
And yeh, feelings are feelings. But money is money. And right now we are making decisions that has started to drive financial supporters away.

(05-20-2021 10:00 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 09:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Cut the fat or switch conferences. Feelings are feelings. Numbers are facts. If we’re red lining thanks to certain sports... they should go.


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Softball is not causing us to redline anymore than the years men's basketball has. Men's basketball has been in the red many times. So let's just drop sports all together, bring DePaul back and be strictly a liberal arts school. Softball actually draws a decent crowd now. They have a more consistent fan base than volleyball and tennis. Maybe even soccer. I'm not sure because I quit going. It was all I could do to make it to halftime. Just too boring for me.
And yeh, feelings are feelings. But money is money. And right now we are making decisions that has started to drive financial supporters away.

I wasn’t talking about softball my friend. I was talking about sports like beach volleyball, track and field, cross country, etc that don’t really draw crowds. Especially track and field with a larger roster and overhead.


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(05-21-2021 08:12 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 10:00 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 09:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Cut the fat or switch conferences. Feelings are feelings. Numbers are facts. If we’re red lining thanks to certain sports... they should go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Softball is not causing us to redline anymore than the years men's basketball has. Men's basketball has been in the red many times. So let's just drop sports all together, bring DePaul back and be strictly a liberal arts school. Softball actually draws a decent crowd now. They have a more consistent fan base than volleyball and tennis. Maybe even soccer. I'm not sure because I quit going. It was all I could do to make it to halftime. Just too boring for me.
And yeh, feelings are feelings. But money is money. And right now we are making decisions that has started to drive financial supporters away.

I wasn’t talking about softball my friend. I was talking about sports like beach volleyball, track and field, cross country, etc that don’t really draw crowds. Especially track and field with a larger roster and overhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gotcha. I'm a little concerned about how things have been handled in the name of covid. I have seen donors lose their seats in the seated chair section at baseball, with only parents allowed to sit in what is a large area. Some of those donors are now not coming to the games. I saw parents being refused to walk out on the field with the seniors by the Assistant AD, while he stood out there and shook hands with every senior. And while we are now at full capacity, tailgating in an open designated area is still not allowed. Even though W&M fans got away with it. This is not a way to build financial support. By running off longtime donors.

(05-21-2021 08:17 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:12 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 10:00 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 09:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Cut the fat or switch conferences. Feelings are feelings. Numbers are facts. If we’re red lining thanks to certain sports... they should go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Softball is not causing us to redline anymore than the years men's basketball has. Men's basketball has been in the red many times. So let's just drop sports all together, bring DePaul back and be strictly a liberal arts school. Softball actually draws a decent crowd now. They have a more consistent fan base than volleyball and tennis. Maybe even soccer. I'm not sure because I quit going. It was all I could do to make it to halftime. Just too boring for me.
And yeh, feelings are feelings. But money is money. And right now we are making decisions that has started to drive financial supporters away.

I wasn’t talking about softball my friend. I was talking about sports like beach volleyball, track and field, cross country, etc that don’t really draw crowds. Especially track and field with a larger roster and overhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gotcha. I'm a little concerned about how things have been handled in the name of covid. I have seen donors lose their seats in the seated chair section at baseball, with only parents allowed to sit in what is a large area. Some of those donors are now not coming to the games. I saw parents being refused to walk out on the field with the seniors by the Assistant AD, while he stood out there and shook hands with every senior. And while we are now at full capacity, tailgating in an open designated area is still not allowed. Even though W&M fans got away with it. This is not a way to build financial support. By running off longtime donors.

That's incredibly disheartening to hear

(05-21-2021 08:49 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:17 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:12 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 10:00 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 09:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Cut the fat or switch conferences. Feelings are feelings. Numbers are facts. If we’re red lining thanks to certain sports... they should go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Softball is not causing us to redline anymore than the years men's basketball has. Men's basketball has been in the red many times. So let's just drop sports all together, bring DePaul back and be strictly a liberal arts school. Softball actually draws a decent crowd now. They have a more consistent fan base than volleyball and tennis. Maybe even soccer. I'm not sure because I quit going. It was all I could do to make it to halftime. Just too boring for me.
And yeh, feelings are feelings. But money is money. And right now we are making decisions that has started to drive financial supporters away.

I wasn’t talking about softball my friend. I was talking about sports like beach volleyball, track and field, cross country, etc that don’t really draw crowds. Especially track and field with a larger roster and overhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gotcha. I'm a little concerned about how things have been handled in the name of covid. I have seen donors lose their seats in the seated chair section at baseball, with only parents allowed to sit in what is a large area. Some of those donors are now not coming to the games. I saw parents being refused to walk out on the field with the seniors by the Assistant AD, while he stood out there and shook hands with every senior. And while we are now at full capacity, tailgating in an open designated area is still not allowed. Even though W&M fans got away with it. This is not a way to build financial support. By running off longtime donors.

That's incredibly disheartening to hear

Why? Because I understand sustainability and know trimming them would improve us in other areas?

I think mullet makes a good point in that we have two options. Trim sports or switch to a more travel friendly conference.


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(05-21-2021 09:19 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:49 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:17 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:12 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-20-2021 10:00 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  Softball is not causing us to redline anymore than the years men's basketball has. Men's basketball has been in the red many times. So let's just drop sports all together, bring DePaul back and be strictly a liberal arts school. Softball actually draws a decent crowd now. They have a more consistent fan base than volleyball and tennis. Maybe even soccer. I'm not sure because I quit going. It was all I could do to make it to halftime. Just too boring for me.
And yeh, feelings are feelings. But money is money. And right now we are making decisions that has started to drive financial supporters away.

I wasn’t talking about softball my friend. I was talking about sports like beach volleyball, track and field, cross country, etc that don’t really draw crowds. Especially track and field with a larger roster and overhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gotcha. I'm a little concerned about how things have been handled in the name of covid. I have seen donors lose their seats in the seated chair section at baseball, with only parents allowed to sit in what is a large area. Some of those donors are now not coming to the games. I saw parents being refused to walk out on the field with the seniors by the Assistant AD, while he stood out there and shook hands with every senior. And while we are now at full capacity, tailgating in an open designated area is still not allowed. Even though W&M fans got away with it. This is not a way to build financial support. By running off longtime donors.

That's incredibly disheartening to hear

Why? Because I understand sustainability and know trimming them would improve us in other areas?

I think mullet makes a good point in that we have two options. Trim sports or switch to a more travel friendly conference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think he was just stating that the stuff 33 pointed out was disheartening. And, it definitely is.

(05-21-2021 10:16 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 09:19 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:49 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:17 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:12 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  I wasn’t talking about softball my friend. I was talking about sports like beach volleyball, track and field, cross country, etc that don’t really draw crowds. Especially track and field with a larger roster and overhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gotcha. I'm a little concerned about how things have been handled in the name of covid. I have seen donors lose their seats in the seated chair section at baseball, with only parents allowed to sit in what is a large area. Some of those donors are now not coming to the games. I saw parents being refused to walk out on the field with the seniors by the Assistant AD, while he stood out there and shook hands with every senior. And while we are now at full capacity, tailgating in an open designated area is still not allowed. Even though W&M fans got away with it. This is not a way to build financial support. By running off longtime donors.

That's incredibly disheartening to hear

Why? Because I understand sustainability and know trimming them would improve us in other areas?

I think mullet makes a good point in that we have two options. Trim sports or switch to a more travel friendly conference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think he was just stating that the stuff 33 pointed out was disheartening. And, it definitely is.

Ahhh yeah, I see that now. I was awake entirely too early this morning and admittedly my reading comprehension was lower than normal... not ezu level, but definitely lower than normal.

(05-21-2021 01:06 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 10:16 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 09:19 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:49 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:17 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

Gotcha. I'm a little concerned about how things have been handled in the name of covid. I have seen donors lose their seats in the seated chair section at baseball, with only parents allowed to sit in what is a large area. Some of those donors are now not coming to the games. I saw parents being refused to walk out on the field with the seniors by the Assistant AD, while he stood out there and shook hands with every senior. And while we are now at full capacity, tailgating in an open designated area is still not allowed. Even though W&M fans got away with it. This is not a way to build financial support. By running off longtime donors.

That's incredibly disheartening to hear

Why? Because I understand sustainability and know trimming them would improve us in other areas?

I think mullet makes a good point in that we have two options. Trim sports or switch to a more travel friendly conference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think he was just stating that the stuff 33 pointed out was disheartening. And, it definitely is.

Ahhh yeah, I see that now. I was awake entirely too early this morning and admittedly my reading comprehension was lower than normal... not ezu level, but definitely lower than normal.

What's lower than low? Asking for a friend

(05-21-2021 10:16 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 09:19 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:49 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:17 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 08:12 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  I wasn’t talking about softball my friend. I was talking about sports like beach volleyball, track and field, cross country, etc that don’t really draw crowds. Especially track and field with a larger roster and overhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gotcha. I'm a little concerned about how things have been handled in the name of covid. I have seen donors lose their seats in the seated chair section at baseball, with only parents allowed to sit in what is a large area. Some of those donors are now not coming to the games. I saw parents being refused to walk out on the field with the seniors by the Assistant AD, while he stood out there and shook hands with every senior. And while we are now at full capacity, tailgating in an open designated area is still not allowed. Even though W&M fans got away with it. This is not a way to build financial support. By running off longtime donors.

That's incredibly disheartening to hear

Why? Because I understand sustainability and know trimming them would improve us in other areas?

I think mullet makes a good point in that we have two options. Trim sports or switch to a more travel friendly conference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think he was just stating that the stuff 33 pointed out was disheartening. And, it definitely is.

They dont teach reading comprehension in the coast guard