(04-14-2021 11:30 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 09:07 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 08:43 PM)XLance Wrote:  At the end of the day, the only ACC schools to leave the fold as "football first" schools might be Florida State and Clemson.

If that were to happen Todd Stansbury would be on the phone to Athens, the GABOR, the state legislature, and Birmingham the next day. And while GT might not bring new markets to the SEC, it greatly improves inventory and the gate all around, especially if Missouri goes West where it belongs and Auburn goes East where it belongs.

Isn't Todd Stansbury the Athletic Director?

Decisions of this magnitude are WAY, WAY above his pay grade

I think you'll find Cabrera is on the same page as Stansbury. There's no higher pay grade to be found thereafter.

(04-13-2021 11:04 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Ivy League school presidents determined the implications of this bargain in the 1950s...and they made the choice to de-emphasize football. The transition in basketball has been more gradual. Nevertheless, there is little doubt that many elite recruits go to universities overwhelmingly to help develop their trade (as big-time professional athletes).

Well, every school in the unofficial Ivy League deemphasized football by the 50's, it was only Penn that was hanging on playing a powerhouse schedule.

(04-14-2021 05:13 AM)XLance Wrote:  ...the idea that private research Universities (or public ones that act like privates) will forsake their academic mission in favor of a few athletic dollars is lame...
When University Presidents are facing truly long term decisions, their main goal will be to serve and preserve their institutions, not pursue athletic endeavors.

The irony, coming from a UNC fan, is truly amazing.

(04-14-2021 02:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 05:13 AM)XLance Wrote:  ...the idea that private research Universities (or public ones that act like privates) will forsake their academic mission in favor of a few athletic dollars is lame...
When University Presidents are facing truly long term decisions, their main goal will be to serve and preserve their institutions, not pursue athletic endeavors.

The irony, coming from a UNC fan, is truly amazing.

Since athletics don't impact grant revenue for academics, the objective of the presidents will be to maximize both revenue streams. Only in the Big 10's desire to build a strong land grant AAU consortium as a conference are athletics tied to academics. Nowhere else, including the AAU itself, are the two thought of together. Athletics have nothing to do with AAU status and academic achievement is not impinged by the athletic department, unless of course the schools involved rob money from academics to fund athletics. In those cases the presidents are guilty of malfeasance. Most P5 athletic departments are self sustaining. Where this is so there is no reason to divorce or hinder athletics because of NIL.

(04-14-2021 01:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 11:04 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Ivy League school presidents determined the implications of this bargain in the 1950s...and they made the choice to de-emphasize football. The transition in basketball has been more gradual. Nevertheless, there is little doubt that many elite recruits go to universities overwhelmingly to help develop their trade (as big-time professional athletes).

Well, every school in the unofficial Ivy League deemphasized football by the 50's, it was only Penn that was hanging on playing a powerhouse schedule.

Well, the ACC de-emphasized in 1962 but Clemson nor SC agreed with the decision. Tulane has done it twice.

(04-14-2021 01:13 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 11:30 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 09:07 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 08:43 PM)XLance Wrote:  At the end of the day, the only ACC schools to leave the fold as "football first" schools might be Florida State and Clemson.

If that were to happen Todd Stansbury would be on the phone to Athens, the GABOR, the state legislature, and Birmingham the next day. And while GT might not bring new markets to the SEC, it greatly improves inventory and the gate all around, especially if Missouri goes West where it belongs and Auburn goes East where it belongs.

Isn't Todd Stansbury the Athletic Director?

Decisions of this magnitude are WAY, WAY above his pay grade

I think you'll find Cabrera is on the same page as Stansbury. There's no higher pay grade to be found thereafter.

OK, Good Luck. At least Georgia Tech should be able to beat Vanderbilt every year.

(04-14-2021 03:03 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 01:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 11:04 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Ivy League school presidents determined the implications of this bargain in the 1950s...and they made the choice to de-emphasize football. The transition in basketball has been more gradual. Nevertheless, there is little doubt that many elite recruits go to universities overwhelmingly to help develop their trade (as big-time professional athletes).

Well, every school in the unofficial Ivy League deemphasized football by the 50's, it was only Penn that was hanging on playing a powerhouse schedule.

Well, the ACC de-emphasized in 1962 but Clemson nor SC agreed with the decision. Tulane has done it twice.

You never responded to my question earlier in the thread about your interpretation of Louisville's cultural fit in the ACC. Maryland as well.

(04-14-2021 03:28 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 03:03 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 01:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 11:04 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Ivy League school presidents determined the implications of this bargain in the 1950s...and they made the choice to de-emphasize football. The transition in basketball has been more gradual. Nevertheless, there is little doubt that many elite recruits go to universities overwhelmingly to help develop their trade (as big-time professional athletes).

Well, every school in the unofficial Ivy League deemphasized football by the 50's, it was only Penn that was hanging on playing a powerhouse schedule.

Well, the ACC de-emphasized in 1962 but Clemson nor SC agreed with the decision. Tulane has done it twice.

You never responded to my question earlier in the thread about your interpretation of Louisville's cultural fit in the ACC. Maryland as well.

MD is no longer in the ACC. MD still fits but the System President wanted them out and in the Big 10. Kirwan got his way. MD used to be a southeastern institution but is now an eastern, urban institution which is to say it's no longer really Maryland A&M or Maryland State as when the formed the SoCon. Maybe a better way to describe it is that UMCP is more like Baltimore or Wilmington Delaware than it is DC.

I didn't opine about Louisville because my interaction around and between Louisville, Cincy, and UK are not extensive enough to give me any insight other than to say it's not southeastern, it's not Yankee, it's not southern. For me Kentucky is two states, the Appalachian KY, and the limestone KY. We *meaning people in Central NC and Va) are not intermarried with them and not in business relationships with them.

(04-14-2021 03:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 01:13 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 11:30 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 09:07 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 08:43 PM)XLance Wrote:  At the end of the day, the only ACC schools to leave the fold as "football first" schools might be Florida State and Clemson.

If that were to happen Todd Stansbury would be on the phone to Athens, the GABOR, the state legislature, and Birmingham the next day. And while GT might not bring new markets to the SEC, it greatly improves inventory and the gate all around, especially if Missouri goes West where it belongs and Auburn goes East where it belongs.

Isn't Todd Stansbury the Athletic Director?

Decisions of this magnitude are WAY, WAY above his pay grade

I think you'll find Cabrera is on the same page as Stansbury. There's no higher pay grade to be found thereafter.

OK, Good Luck. At least Georgia Tech should be able to beat Vanderbilt every year.

Let me know when you taste the NY6 there Captain Argyle. PJ more than held his own against the SEC.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using CSNbbs mobile app

(04-14-2021 08:53 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 03:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 01:13 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 11:30 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 09:07 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If that were to happen Todd Stansbury would be on the phone to Athens, the GABOR, the state legislature, and Birmingham the next day. And while GT might not bring new markets to the SEC, it greatly improves inventory and the gate all around, especially if Missouri goes West where it belongs and Auburn goes East where it belongs.

Isn't Todd Stansbury the Athletic Director?

Decisions of this magnitude are WAY, WAY above his pay grade

I think you'll find Cabrera is on the same page as Stansbury. There's no higher pay grade to be found thereafter.

OK, Good Luck. At least Georgia Tech should be able to beat Vanderbilt every year.

Let me know when you taste the NY6 there Captain Argyle. PJ more than held his own against the SEC.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using CSNbbs mobile app

Didn't UNC go to the Orange Bowl last year? Of course, GT won their OB.

Some updates:

Jim Phillips on the ACC annual meeting

On the future of ACC football divisions, which were not missed during the ACC’s COVID contingency plan last fall: “We have started to at least begin conversations. Especially for me being new to the conference, how did we get to divisions? How did we get to eight games? Is, long-term, divisions the right thing? Is eight games the right thing? … I think we have to be open to all of that as we look forward.”

https://amp.thestate.com/sports/spt-colu...14688.html

Also, David Teel talked about a very unlikely scenario of ND joining the ACC football with Navy.

What if the CFP went to six teams with automatics to each Power Five title-game winner? Then the Irish would be competing for the lone at-large bid.

Notre Dame’s calculation then would become: If entree to a national championship is paramount, do we have better odds of earning the ACC’s automatic bid or an at-large?

https://richmond.com/sports/college/teel...3f38f.html

In other words, no real updates. Just same old stuff.

Having said that, I won’t be surprised if Jim Phillips is pushing for the 9 conference games and/or minor divisional realignments. That’s something the ACC can do unilaterally.

(05-18-2021 12:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Some updates:

Jim Phillips on the ACC annual meeting

On the future of ACC football divisions, which were not missed during the ACC’s COVID contingency plan last fall: “We have started to at least begin conversations. Especially for me being new to the conference, how did we get to divisions? How did we get to eight games? Is, long-term, divisions the right thing? Is eight games the right thing? … I think we have to be open to all of that as we look forward.”

https://amp.thestate.com/sports/spt-colu...14688.html

Also, David Teel talked about a very unlikely scenario of ND joining the ACC football with Navy.

What if the CFP went to six teams with automatics to each Power Five title-game winner? Then the Irish would be competing for the lone at-large bid.

Notre Dame’s calculation then would become: If entree to a national championship is paramount, do we have better odds of earning the ACC’s automatic bid or an at-large?

https://richmond.com/sports/college/teel...3f38f.html

In other words, no real updates. Just same old stuff.

Having said that, I won’t be surprised if Jim Phillips is pushing for the 9 conference games and/or minor divisional realignments. That’s something the ACC can do unilaterally.

IIRC, it's a "look-in" year (or maybe next year?), so it's appropriate to consider tweaking the TV contract. That said, how much is Disney willing to pay for those changes?

ESPN is definitely in a "quality, not quantity" buying mode, so whatever the ACC does will have to create better match-ups for TV.

(05-18-2021 12:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Some updates:

Jim Phillips on the ACC annual meeting

On the future of ACC football divisions, which were not missed during the ACC’s COVID contingency plan last fall: “We have started to at least begin conversations. Especially for me being new to the conference, how did we get to divisions? How did we get to eight games? Is, long-term, divisions the right thing? Is eight games the right thing? … I think we have to be open to all of that as we look forward.”

https://amp.thestate.com/sports/spt-colu...14688.html

Also, David Teel talked about a very unlikely scenario of ND joining the ACC football with Navy.

What if the CFP went to six teams with automatics to each Power Five title-game winner? Then the Irish would be competing for the lone at-large bid.

Notre Dame’s calculation then would become: If entree to a national championship is paramount, do we have better odds of earning the ACC’s automatic bid or an at-large?

https://richmond.com/sports/college/teel...3f38f.html

In other words, no real updates. Just same old stuff.

Having said that, I won’t be surprised if Jim Phillips is pushing for the 9 conference games and/or minor divisional realignments. That’s something the ACC can do unilaterally.

Somewhat funny to read the David Teel article. He’s basically putting odds on CFP expansion and ND joining the ACC...

CFP expansion to 8 seems to be his most likely scenario. He thinks it would be a 5-1-2 model, with autobids for the P5 and the top G5 champion. With two at large bids, it’s extremely unlikely that ND joins.

CFP expansion to 6 teams with autobids only to the P5 champs seems like a long shot. He admits that this scenario would be the instance when ND actually considers joining the ACC. Even proposing football scheduling options that would be enticing to Notre Dame (division-less schedules with 2 permanent rivals in a 15 team format; or invite Navy for football only in a 16 team format).

(05-18-2021 07:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 12:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Some updates:

Jim Phillips on the ACC annual meeting

On the future of ACC football divisions, which were not missed during the ACC’s COVID contingency plan last fall: “We have started to at least begin conversations. Especially for me being new to the conference, how did we get to divisions? How did we get to eight games? Is, long-term, divisions the right thing? Is eight games the right thing? … I think we have to be open to all of that as we look forward.”

https://amp.thestate.com/sports/spt-colu...14688.html

Also, David Teel talked about a very unlikely scenario of ND joining the ACC football with Navy.

What if the CFP went to six teams with automatics to each Power Five title-game winner? Then the Irish would be competing for the lone at-large bid.

Notre Dame’s calculation then would become: If entree to a national championship is paramount, do we have better odds of earning the ACC’s automatic bid or an at-large?

https://richmond.com/sports/college/teel...3f38f.html

In other words, no real updates. Just same old stuff.

Having said that, I won’t be surprised if Jim Phillips is pushing for the 9 conference games and/or minor divisional realignments. That’s something the ACC can do unilaterally.

Somewhat funny to read the David Teel article. He’s basically putting odds on CFP expansion and ND joining the ACC...

CFP expansion to 8 seems to be his most likely scenario. He thinks it would be a 5-1-2 model, with autobids for the P5 and the top G5 champion. With two at large bids, it’s extremely unlikely that ND joins.

CFP expansion to 6 teams with autobids only to the P5 champs seems like a long shot. He admits that this scenario would be the instance when ND actually considers joining the ACC. Even proposing football scheduling options that would be enticing to Notre Dame (division-less schedules with 2 permanent rivals in a 15 team format; or invite Navy for football only in a 16 team format).

I don't think 9 conference games works with 16 schools and 2 permanent.

8 games with 16 schools and three permanents can work on a 3-3-2 basis - 3 yearly opponents, 6 opponents split every other year, and the remaining 6 played 2 every three years.

That gives ND, Clemson, FSU, GT, Louisville, and Navy room to schedule OOC P-5s.

ND might be:

1. Navy
2. Pitt
3. FSU
4. UVa/VT
5. NC State/UNC
6. BC/Syracuse
7. Louis/WF/Duke
8. Miami/CU/GT
9. USC
10. Big 10
11. P12/SEC/B12
12. Scrub

Clemson might be:

1. FSU
2. GT
3. BC
4. UNC/NC State
5. VT/UVa
6. Louis/Pitt
7. ND/Syracuse/Navy
8. Duke/WF/Miami
9. South Carolina
10. Georgia/Auburn/Other SEC
11. Scrub
12. Scrub

FSU might be:

1. Miami
2. Clemson
3. ND
4. UNC/NC State
5. WF/Duke
6. BC/Syracuse
7. Pitt/Louisville/VT
8. UVa/GT/Navy
9. Florida
10. Other P-5
11. Chump
12. Chump

(05-18-2021 08:14 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 07:05 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 12:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Some updates:

Jim Phillips on the ACC annual meeting

On the future of ACC football divisions, which were not missed during the ACC’s COVID contingency plan last fall: “We have started to at least begin conversations. Especially for me being new to the conference, how did we get to divisions? How did we get to eight games? Is, long-term, divisions the right thing? Is eight games the right thing? … I think we have to be open to all of that as we look forward.”

https://amp.thestate.com/sports/spt-colu...14688.html

Also, David Teel talked about a very unlikely scenario of ND joining the ACC football with Navy.

What if the CFP went to six teams with automatics to each Power Five title-game winner? Then the Irish would be competing for the lone at-large bid.

Notre Dame’s calculation then would become: If entree to a national championship is paramount, do we have better odds of earning the ACC’s automatic bid or an at-large?

https://richmond.com/sports/college/teel...3f38f.html

In other words, no real updates. Just same old stuff.

Having said that, I won’t be surprised if Jim Phillips is pushing for the 9 conference games and/or minor divisional realignments. That’s something the ACC can do unilaterally.

Somewhat funny to read the David Teel article. He’s basically putting odds on CFP expansion and ND joining the ACC...

CFP expansion to 8 seems to be his most likely scenario. He thinks it would be a 5-1-2 model, with autobids for the P5 and the top G5 champion. With two at large bids, it’s extremely unlikely that ND joins.

CFP expansion to 6 teams with autobids only to the P5 champs seems like a long shot. He admits that this scenario would be the instance when ND actually considers joining the ACC. Even proposing football scheduling options that would be enticing to Notre Dame (division-less schedules with 2 permanent rivals in a 15 team format; or invite Navy for football only in a 16 team format).

I don't think 9 conference games works with 16 schools and 2 permanent.

8 games with 16 schools and three permanents can work on a 3-3-2 basis - 3 yearly opponents, 6 opponents split every other year, and the remaining 6 played 2 every three years.

That gives ND, Clemson, FSU, GT, Louisville, and Navy room to schedule OOC P-5s.

ND might be:

1. Navy
2. Pitt
3. FSU
4. UVa/VT
5. NC State/UNC
6. BC/Syracuse
7. Louis/WF/Duke
8. Miami/CU/GT
9. USC
10. Big 10
11. P12/SEC/B12
12. Scrub

Clemson might be:

1. FSU
2. GT
3. BC
4. UNC/NC State
5. VT/UVa
6. Louis/Pitt
7. ND/Syracuse/Navy
8. Duke/WF/Miami
9. South Carolina
10. Georgia/Auburn/Other SEC
11. Scrub
12. Scrub

FSU might be:

1. Miami
2. Clemson
3. ND
4. UNC/NC State
5. WF/Duke
6. BC/Syracuse
7. Pitt/Louisville/VT
8. UVa/GT/Navy
9. Florida
10. Other P-5
11. Chump
12. Chump

If 16 team with ND & Navy, Teel recommends 1 permanent rival and rotate the other 14 teams over 2 years. The point is to keep the conference schedule at 8 games.

Suggested permanents: FSU-Mia, GT-Clemson, UNC-NCS, WF-Duke, UVA-VT, UL-Pitt, Cuse-BC and ND-Navy.

That's not going to work relative to Duke/UNC/WF/NC State. You would have to flip Duke and Wake

UNC has played UVa 125 times, State 110, and Duke 107 -they started playing UVa in 1892.

State has played WF 114 times starting in 1895.

Incidentally when it comes to Navy they have most played:

121 - Army
94 - Notre Dame
53 - Air Force
40 - Virginia, Pitt, and Duke

Will expansion to 8+ teams in the playoffs finally kill the ND to any conference talk?

(05-18-2021 10:56 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Will expansion to 8+ teams in the playoffs finally kill the ND to any conference talk?

Yes, it will be dead forever.... or until most of the P5 become a Pro League. Never say never.

(05-18-2021 10:56 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Will expansion to 8+ teams in the playoffs finally kill the ND to any conference talk?

Probably not.
When the playoffs are expanded to 8 or more teams, the pressure to reduce the number of conferences to 4 will be tremendous.
Even if the playoff expansion is delayed, the biggest push will be to reduce the number of conferences to four. This actually works in Notre Dame's favor. Since there are 65 teams in the P5, allowing Notre Dame to remain as a semi-member of the ACC is a convenient place to park the Irish until the overall numbers can be reduced.

(05-18-2021 09:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  That's not going to work relative to Duke/UNC/WF/NC State. You would have to flip Duke and Wake

UNC has played UVa 125 times, State 110, and Duke 107 -they started playing UVa in 1892.

State has played WF 114 times starting in 1895.

Incidentally when it comes to Navy they have most played:

121 - Army
94 - Notre Dame
53 - Air Force
40 - Virginia, Pitt, and Duke

Solving UNC’s scheduling issue is trivial. UNC, UVA and Duke commit to OOC play. It’s one game every other year for UVA and Duke; one game every year for UNC. Everyone would be happy.

The challenges are:
1) Convincing FBS commissioners to expand to 6 with guaranteed autobids for the P5. The BIG and SEC are better-off without autobids; and the AAC is desperate for a much larger expansion.
2) Convincing ND to join the ACC. Expanding the CFP to 6 teams with autobids to the P5 actually makes it easier for ND to make the playoffs (as compared to the current 4 team CFP). If ND wants to maximize their probability of making the playoffs, then joining the ACC makes sense. IMO, ND currently only wants the opportunity to make the playoffs...so any expansion actually diminishes their interest/need in joining a conference for football.
3) Convincing the NCAA to change the CCG requirements. Currently, divisions and round-robin play are required.

Agree that Navy football would fit nicely with a number of ACC schools. Nevertheless, Navy would have a difficult time matching up with the talent gap at Clemson, Florida State and Miami.