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Langley to Washington
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Post: #41
RE: Langley to Washington
Two other names to really consider - Stephanie Norman or Sam Purcell at Louisville. Purcell would be a really good hire if we are wanting to hire a male head coach. The Auburn folks thought he'd be a top candidate there (he's an Auburn grad).
04-06-2021 07:39 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-05-2021 06:44 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  
(04-05-2021 05:30 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Isn't this exactly what we say we want - coaches who do well enough to be hired away?

The trick, rarely done at Rice, is to hire somebody who can maintain and then improve the program.

This is a test for JK.

I think it's natural to be slightly sad at first that she isn't going to be Mark Few. Like she could have left multiple times, and so you kind of get the thought in the back of your head that maybe she really likes it at Rice and wants to turn the program into one that's perennially ranked.

But yeah, nobody is going to be upset with her or anything like that. Her six years were ridiculously successful, and she gave us the ability to watch a ton of crazy talented players when Rice athletics really needed some light in what's been a generally bad stretch (at least with respect to the big sports).

To be honest, while I think this is a difficult hire for JK, there's a lot that's out of his control. He could theoretically hire the literal best possible candidate, and 5-6 players could transfer out and we'd be back to where we were before Langley got here. And it wouldn't be his fault at all. The future of the program first and foremost lies with the current players on the roster. If Wiggins and Smith and Schwartz and co. say they want out, nothing JK can do will mean much.

Maybe 5-6 players could transfer in.

The point is, respected winning coaches who stay at Rice a long time are few and far between, and we fired both the ones I think of as an example - Graham and Neely.

so what we need, in every sport, is a SERIES of good hires. Boise State did this in football for a long time. The only time we have done this in a major sport was Hatfield to replace Goldsmith - and that AD is long gone. Time for THIS AD to find the coach for the next stage.
04-06-2021 08:40 AM
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temchugh Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Langley to Washington
JK should hire the person he sees as the best available coach for Rice. Langley came in with nothing and built a winning program very quickly and kept it strong for five straight years.

I hope we can keep many of the current players, but either way, we know that the right coach can succeed.
04-06-2021 09:39 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Langley to Washington
Of course you will see transfers, but WE are/should be a TARGET for lots of transfers in women's sports as well. We need to hire a coach that understands this and knows how to play it.

The academic opportunity we offer is unparalleled... and that is/should be a CRITICAL factor for women, given the lack of ''competing' athletic opportunity once you graduate worth millions...

AND we are 'hot' right now athletically.

If we can't take this and build on it, we have failed at THE MOST BASIC AND IMPORTANT task of being competitive in g5... an the ONLY area (non-revs) where our academic restrictions can be an asset... and where the presence of a tournament mitigates some of the p5/g5 divide.
04-06-2021 11:09 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 08:40 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  so what we need, in every sport, is a SERIES of good hires. Boise State did this in football for a long time. The only time we have done this in a major sport was Hatfield to replace Goldsmith - and that AD is long gone.

I still think that was a done deal. Don't have a lot of evidence, just a feel thing from being a lot closer to the program than I am now.

One thing interesting is remember the fight in press box the elevator between the Baylor coach and the Rice coach? Most of the Baylor coaches at that time had come from Clemson, were Hatfield and his staff had replaced them, and they would almost certainly have had a grapevine back to Clemson. What prompted the fight was that the Baylor coach said to the Rice coach, "I understand they aren't taking you to Duke." That meant he knew something about Goldsmith's plans, and that probably came from Clemson and therefore he probably something about Hatfield's.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 11:30 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
04-06-2021 11:12 AM
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grOWLer Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 11:12 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 08:40 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  so what we need, in every sport, is a SERIES of good hires. Boise State did this in football for a long time. The only time we have done this in a major sport was Hatfield to replace Goldsmith - and that AD is long gone.

I still think that was a done deal. Don't have a lot of evidence, just a feel thing from being a lot closer to the program than I am now.

One thing interesting is remember the fight in press box the elevator between the Baylor coach and the Rice coach? Most of the Baylor coaches at that time had come from Clemson, were Hatfield and his staff had replaced them, and they would almost certainly have had a grapevine back to Clemson. What prompted the fight was that the Baylor coach said to the Rice coach, "I understand they aren't taking you to Duke." That meant he knew something about Goldsmith's plans, and that probably came from Clemson and therefore he probably something about Hatfield's.

I was told that when Goldsmith told Bobby that he was resigning and going to Duke, he told Bobby that "The good news is, here is Ken Hatfield's phone number" and handed it to him.
04-06-2021 11:59 AM
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elw4796 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Langley to Washington
A shame for Langley, the Vanderbilt job opens up the day after she's hired. I bet that's one she would've given serious consideration to. Would've required a similar rebuild to Rice, but the academics are well better than Washington.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 01:17 PM by elw4796.)
04-06-2021 01:17 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Langley to Washington
Others will be closer to this... but this is my take.... speaking solely about performance and not about personalities or ancillaries, which DO matter...

Hiring Todd Graham turned the direction of the program. Replacing him with Bailiff worked, but his success could not be replicated/maintained despite an extension and the jury is still out on Bloom.

Men's Basketball has had a few high points, but has mostly been very disappointing. The good has not been maintained, at all... it may come back, but it hasn't built upon its successes.

Most women's sports have done well, and now we have to see if those gains can be maintained and built upon.

Baseball has not (at least yet) been turned and certainly not built upon. That's a tall order of course, and Wayne himself clearly struggled with it towards the end... but it seems our biggest mistake here was by not involving the person who built it, maintained it and took it to unparalleled heights.

I don't know how we are scoring this, but I'd like some clear evidence that it has not simply been a random walk... and this is perhaps our second most important hire in the last few years.... with the benefit of a more favorable business model and building on clear success.


BTW, again while I don't know specifics... I think Mulkey could be in a real cat birds seat here. She can declare for the draft but not hire an agent... and see how things go. If she likes it, she can go. If she doesn't, she can return OR transfer or even be a graduate transfer (or just a Rice grad student)
04-06-2021 01:28 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 12:37 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(04-05-2021 11:41 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Hire someone with college coaching experience. There are plenty of good assistants out there who are looking for their first big chance to be a head coach.

Tennessee Tech went 15-10 this season under Kim Rosamond, in her 4th year after being an assistant at Vanderbilt. She's 71-76 overall as head coach.

I didn't say they were all qualified.
04-06-2021 02:00 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 01:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Others will be closer to this... but this is my take.... speaking solely about performance and not about personalities or ancillaries, which DO matter...

Hiring Todd Graham turned the direction of the program. Replacing him with Bailiff worked, but his success could not be replicated/maintained despite an extension and the jury is still out on Bloom.

Men's Basketball has had a few high points, but has mostly been very disappointing. The good has not been maintained, at all... it may come back, but it hasn't built upon its successes.

Most women's sports have done well, and now we have to see if those gains can be maintained and built upon.

Baseball has not (at least yet) been turned and certainly not built upon. That's a tall order of course, and Wayne himself clearly struggled with it towards the end... but it seems our biggest mistake here was by not involving the person who built it, maintained it and took it to unparalleled heights.

I don't know how we are scoring this, but I'd like some clear evidence that it has not simply been a random walk... and this is perhaps our second most important hire in the last few years.... with the benefit of a more favorable business model and building on clear success.


BTW, again while I don't know specifics... I think Mulkey could be in a real cat birds seat here. She can declare for the draft but not hire an agent... and see how things go. If she likes it, she can go. If she doesn't, she can return OR transfer or even be a graduate transfer (or just a Rice grad student)

The article which listed the 52 players who wanted to be considered for the draft said:

Every NCAA player who is otherwise eligible and would like to make themselves available for selection in the 2021 WNBA Draft is required to renounce their remaining intercollegiate eligibility.

So Nancy apparently is no longer eligible to play college ball.
04-06-2021 02:45 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Langley to Washington
I'm not convinced that we lose a lot of players to the transfer portal with Langley's departure. There's not nearly the allure of playing professionally in women's basketball, and the financial reward of doing so is much less lucrative than the NBA. I think the right hire is critical to keep the momentum going in the program, but I doubt we lose many players, if any at all, with the next hire.
04-06-2021 02:54 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-05-2021 10:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(04-05-2021 09:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-05-2021 08:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

Angie Nelp definitely fits the mold for a Karlgaard hire. And I wouldn't be surprised if Joe asked Tina for any recommendations. Actually, he would have been derelict in his duties if he did not.

I want an experienced college coach; not a former star player with no coaching experience.

Isn’t that what he did with Rhoades with Pera?

Not that Pera has been terrible, but he hasn’t been a slam dunk.

I think the danger with leaning too heavily on your exiting coach’s opinion is two-fold:

1) Coaches don’t want to be upstaged by their successor. So they don’t “aim as high” in their recommendations as they should.
2) They suggest those in their own coaching tree, to the detriment of those who didn’t come up through their system.

Ultimately, Langley was a good coach for us but let’s keep her in perspective-2 NCAA appearances in six years (counting last year’s tournament cancellation as an appearance). A huge improvement over our history in the sport? Yes. Some good national press and star players? Yes.

But she never won a game in the dance and jumped for a mediocre P5 program... So her loyalty to Rice is questionable at best. We shouldn’t give her the treatment that many thought Wayne Graham should’ve gotten (I.e. name your successor, etc).

Not saying you’re suggesting that-just speaking broadly.

Agree completely with the characterization of the UW program as mediocre.

Three conference wins (3-13) and 7-14 overall is pretty mediocre to me. Firing a coach. That usually only happens when a program is mediocre or worse.

Went to the Final Four four or five years ago. Sounds good. But then the Coach left Seattle for Fayetteville, Arkansas. Hard to imagine. Why leave since you had built a program and life in Seattle is generally considered preferable to life in Fayetteville. Maybe because Kelsy Plum, the Division I career scoring leader, was finishing up at UW and all that was left was a mediocre program. Get out while the getting is good and your. stock is high. Let your successor take the blame when the program flounders.

The top of the PAC 12 for some time to come will going to be, in no particular order, Oregon, Stanford, Oregon State, UCLA, and Arizona. WSU and USC are becoming competitive. It remains to be seen if ASU just had an off year or will continue trending downward. It will be a lot harder to compete in those environs. PAC 12 is not CUSA.

Regarding the claim that UW has the 16th best recruiting class this year. CAL's recruiting class last year was better than UW's incoming crop. Cal got 3 top-50 players. And it lost every conference game it played until its last game, when it beat a struggling ASU squad. Maybe it will do better in the next few years but ..................
04-06-2021 03:08 PM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #53
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 01:17 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  A shame for Langley, the Vanderbilt job opens up the day after she's hired. I bet that's one she would've given serious consideration to. Would've required a similar rebuild to Rice, but the academics are well better than Washington.

The Washington WBB job is much better than Vanderbilt's; it's not even close. And Washington is a pretty solid school academically. It's not Wazzou by any means.
04-06-2021 03:21 PM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #54
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 01:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Others will be closer to this... but this is my take.... speaking solely about performance and not about personalities or ancillaries, which DO matter...

Hiring Todd Graham turned the direction of the program. Replacing him with Bailiff worked, but his success could not be replicated/maintained despite an extension and the jury is still out on Bloom.

Men's Basketball has had a few high points, but has mostly been very disappointing. The good has not been maintained, at all... it may come back, but it hasn't built upon its successes.

Most women's sports have done well, and now we have to see if those gains can be maintained and built upon.

Baseball has not (at least yet) been turned and certainly not built upon. That's a tall order of course, and Wayne himself clearly struggled with it towards the end... but it seems our biggest mistake here was by not involving the person who built it, maintained it and took it to unparalleled heights.

I don't know how we are scoring this, but I'd like some clear evidence that it has not simply been a random walk... and this is perhaps our second most important hire in the last few years.... with the benefit of a more favorable business model and building on clear success.


BTW, again while I don't know specifics... I think Mulkey could be in a real cat birds seat here. She can declare for the draft but not hire an agent... and see how things go. If she likes it, she can go. If she doesn't, she can return OR transfer or even be a graduate transfer (or just a Rice grad student)

Re.Mulkey-- no. By declaring for the draft she has forfeited her remaining year of college eligibility.
04-06-2021 03:23 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 03:21 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 01:17 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  A shame for Langley, the Vanderbilt job opens up the day after she's hired. I bet that's one she would've given serious consideration to. Would've required a similar rebuild to Rice, but the academics are well better than Washington.

The Washington WBB job is much better than Vanderbilt's; it's not even close. And Washington is a pretty solid school academically. It's not Wazzou by any means.

In the mid 80s, Richard Moll wrote a book entitled The Public Ivys. As I recall UW made the second team. I have not heard of any changes since then. UW is indeed solid academically.
04-06-2021 03:25 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Langley to Washington
Thank you both for the correction. I understand why the WNBA would do that... I don't understand why the players would accept it.
04-06-2021 04:06 PM
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Texasowl Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Langley to Washington
We had bad luck with male coaches for WBB. A woman coach is my preference and I think their are a lot of good assistants who we could bring in. Love to see SYTIA MESSER from Baylor come to Rice. A tremendous recruiter.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 04:58 PM by Texasowl.)
04-06-2021 04:57 PM
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elw4796 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Langley to Washington
FYI The Roost saying that JK expects the search to last between 10-20 days and that interest is "pretty high."

He also said he doesn't expect departures (for whatever that's worth)...I'm not sure how he'd know either way.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 05:20 PM by elw4796.)
04-06-2021 05:16 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Langley to Washington
Whatever happens, I want to see us WALK like we have a top 25 program and are trying to hire someone to RUN a top 25 program... and raise the bar even higher
04-06-2021 05:49 PM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #60
RE: Langley to Washington
(04-06-2021 05:49 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Whatever happens, I want to see us WALK like we have a top 25 program and are trying to hire someone to RUN a top 25 program... and raise the bar even higher

Responding to another poster, Karlgaard indicated to the Roost that he spoke to the team and returning players after Tina announced her decision to the team. He apparently also had individual conversations with team members. Not saying they'd tell him if they were truly considering transferring, but he has at least made an effort to read the pulse of the team.

To state the obvious, Rice WBB is a far more attractive destination now than it was when we hired Tina. Quite honestly, it was surprising that we could land someone of Tina's stature at that time (as she was Assistant Head Coach of a Final Four team). The foundation is now in place, we have a solid returning core of players as well as a strong incoming recruiting class, and we now have established a respected national reputation. No, we don't have the resources or fan base of some of the P5 programs, but I do think Karlgaard is prepared to pay a very competitive salary to ensure we land a worthy candidate to continue the success of the program.
04-06-2021 07:53 PM
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