(04-05-2021 07:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 07:32 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 07:11 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I wonder if JK looks at Sydney Colson. Coached at Rice for 3 years. Local from Houston, went to school at Texas A&M. She played pretty sparingly in the WNBA last year. She's still very young (only 31), so that might disqualify her in the mind of those searching. Also not sure how somebody like Latara King would respond to that.

Hate to remind people that neither Tina or Rhoades or Pera were local, and none had prior Texas ties, but they all have proven their ability to recruit talent.

After Tina, there is no way Karlgaard is going to hire someone who is not experienced from a winning program nationally.

I've always said that the next step in our WBB program is convincing the top 100 Texas recruits to stay home. I don't dispute that all of Langley, Rhoades, and Pera have recruited well, but I think somebody from Texas best fits what we need for the women's program. Just one person's opinion.

But I don't disagree that the most likely hire will be a power conference assistant. Just throwing some different names out there.

Many do stay home, but they choose to go to UT, Baylor or A&M. And only a handful of the Top 100 recruits would qualify academically for Rice. In basketball, in particular-- both WBB and MBB, we have done a really good job recently in out-of-state recruiting.

Dream names:

Gail Goestenkors
Becky Hammon

One of the older Ogwumike sisters - Nneka or Chiney. Instant name recognition with female basketball players and coaches, Stanford (therefore intelligent and academic quals, so they know and can talk about the value of education), Texas background. No head coaching experience, but can attract assistants who can recruit. Plus they have Rice ties through Olivia and Erica. Long shot, but interesting.

Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

(04-05-2021 08:32 PM)grOWLer Wrote:  One of the older Ogwumike sisters - Nneka or Chiney. Instant name recognition with female basketball players and coaches, Stanford (therefore intelligent and academic quals, so they know and can talk about the value of education), Texas background. No head coaching experience, but can attract assistants who can recruit. Plus they have Rice ties through Olivia and Erica. Long shot, but interesting.

I like that idea, but doesn't appear to fit the mold of prior hires.

I was thinking about them (the Ogwumike sisters). Nneka is older (30) but still a double digit scorer (and starter) in the WNBA. Chiney has her own ESPN show - I doubt she's a possible candidate.

Being a head coach pays more than the WNBA.

(04-05-2021 08:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

Angie Nelp definitely fits the mold for a Karlgaard hire. And I wouldn't be surprised if Joe asked Tina for any recommendations. Actually, he would have been derelict in his duties if he did not.

I want an experienced college coach; not a former star player with no coaching experience.

(04-05-2021 09:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 08:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

Angie Nelp definitely fits the mold for a Karlgaard hire. And I wouldn't be surprised if Joe asked Tina for any recommendations. Actually, he would have been derelict in his duties if he did not.

I want an experienced college coach; not a former star player with no coaching experience.

Isn’t that what he did with Rhoades with Pera?

Not that Pera has been terrible, but he hasn’t been a slam dunk.

I think the danger with leaning too heavily on your exiting coach’s opinion is two-fold:

1) Coaches don’t want to be upstaged by their successor. So they don’t “aim as high” in their recommendations as they should.
2) They suggest those in their own coaching tree, to the detriment of those who didn’t come up through their system.

Ultimately, Langley was a good coach for us but let’s keep her in perspective-2 NCAA appearances in six years (counting last year’s tournament cancellation as an appearance). A huge improvement over our history in the sport? Yes. Some good national press and star players? Yes.

But she never won a game in the dance and jumped for a mediocre P5 program... So her loyalty to Rice is questionable at best. We shouldn’t give her the treatment that many thought Wayne Graham should’ve gotten (I.e. name your successor, etc).

Not saying you’re suggesting that-just speaking broadly.

(04-05-2021 10:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 09:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 08:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

Angie Nelp definitely fits the mold for a Karlgaard hire. And I wouldn't be surprised if Joe asked Tina for any recommendations. Actually, he would have been derelict in his duties if he did not.

I want an experienced college coach; not a former star player with no coaching experience.

Isn’t that what he did with Rhoades with Pera?

Not that Pera has been terrible, but he hasn’t been a slam dunk.

I think the danger with leaning too heavily on your exiting coach’s opinion is two-fold:

1) Coaches don’t want to be upstaged by their successor. So they don’t “aim as high” in their recommendations as they should.
2) They suggest those in their own coaching tree, to the detriment of those who didn’t come up through their system.

Ultimately, Langley was a good coach for us but let’s keep her in perspective-2 NCAA appearances in six years (counting last year’s tournament cancellation as an appearance). A huge improvement over our history in the sport? Yes. Some good national press and star players? Yes.

But she never won a game in the dance and jumped for a mediocre P5 program... So her loyalty to Rice is questionable at best. We shouldn’t give her the treatment that many thought Wayne Graham should’ve gotten (I.e. name your successor, etc).

Not saying you’re suggesting that-just speaking broadly.

Mediocre P5 program? The Huskies were in the Final Four 5 years ago and currently have the 16th best recruiting class. The former coach who took them to the Final Four took the Arkansas job and his replacement couldn’t maintain the success.

Sounds like Washington doubled the salary to get Langley relative to the coach they fired. Rice must have had a significant salary package for Coach Langley for Washington to spend so much to get her.

(04-05-2021 10:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 09:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 08:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

Angie Nelp definitely fits the mold for a Karlgaard hire. And I wouldn't be surprised if Joe asked Tina for any recommendations. Actually, he would have been derelict in his duties if he did not.

I want an experienced college coach; not a former star player with no coaching experience.

Isn’t that what he did with Rhoades with Pera?

Not that Pera has been terrible, but he hasn’t been a slam dunk.

I think the danger with leaning too heavily on your exiting coach’s opinion is two-fold:

1) Coaches don’t want to be upstaged by their successor. So they don’t “aim as high” in their recommendations as they should.
2) They suggest those in their own coaching tree, to the detriment of those who didn’t come up through their system.

Ultimately, Langley was a good coach for us but let’s keep her in perspective-2 NCAA appearances in six years (counting last year’s tournament cancellation as an appearance). A huge improvement over our history in the sport? Yes. Some good national press and star players? Yes.

But she never won a game in the dance and jumped for a mediocre P5 program... So her loyalty to Rice is questionable at best. We shouldn’t give her the treatment that many thought Wayne Graham should’ve gotten (I.e. name your successor, etc).

Not saying you’re suggesting that-just speaking broadly.

Good grief-- I don't know where to start. First off, Washington is no "mediocre P5 program". They were in the Final Four just 5 years ago, and have a long history of playing in the NCAA tourney. They not only have a top recruiting class incoming, but their current team is relatively young with considerable upside. And the Pac-12 is arguably the #1 conference in women's basketball and has been for awhile now.

As for judging Tina's performance by NCAA tourney wins is absurd. The program was in a dumpster when she took over. She had one rebuilding year, and then reeled off 5 consecutive 20+ win seasons, two CUSA championships, 2 post-season championships (including this year's WNIT), and a couple Top 30 national rankings. She brought the program to national prominence.

Also, for those of us who have the opportunity to get to know her a bit, her loyalty to Rice and her student-athletes is not "questionable at best". She turned down the Penn State job last year. Unlike Wayne, Tina is not a Houston or Texas native. It was naive to think we were going to be able to keep her long term. BTW, I wasn't suggesting that Tina should be able to name her successor. Rather, that Karlgaard should solicit suggestions from her. She is very well connected nationally, and very good friends with some of the best elite coaches in the country. And she's a huge supporter of women head coaches. BTW, Tina and Joe were close, so I'd be very, very surprised if Joe didn't know this was coming well in advance (not so much the Washington job specifically, but that Tina was ready to move on if the right offer presented itself).

I don't think Joe picked Pera because Rhoades recommended him. Unlike Tina, Rhoades did not leave on great terms. Pera was picked in the desperate hope of retaining at least some of the returning players.

(04-05-2021 04:27 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  No person I’d rather have making an important coaching hire than Joe Karlgaard!

LOL! Dude stop!

(04-05-2021 10:25 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  Sounds like Washington doubled the salary to get Langley relative to the coach they fired. Rice must have had a significant salary package for Coach Langley for Washington to spend so much to get her.

Yes, she got a very substantial bump with her extension two years ago.

Hire someone with college coaching experience. There are plenty of good assistants out there who are looking for their first big chance to be a head coach.

(04-05-2021 11:41 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Hire someone with college coaching experience. There are plenty of good assistants out there who are looking for their first big chance to be a head coach.

Tennessee Tech went 15-10 this season under Kim Rosamond, in her 4th year after being an assistant at Vanderbilt. She's 71-76 overall as head coach.

(04-05-2021 10:19 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 10:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 09:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 08:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

Angie Nelp definitely fits the mold for a Karlgaard hire. And I wouldn't be surprised if Joe asked Tina for any recommendations. Actually, he would have been derelict in his duties if he did not.

I want an experienced college coach; not a former star player with no coaching experience.

Isn’t that what he did with Rhoades with Pera?

Not that Pera has been terrible, but he hasn’t been a slam dunk.

I think the danger with leaning too heavily on your exiting coach’s opinion is two-fold:

1) Coaches don’t want to be upstaged by their successor. So they don’t “aim as high” in their recommendations as they should.
2) They suggest those in their own coaching tree, to the detriment of those who didn’t come up through their system.

Ultimately, Langley was a good coach for us but let’s keep her in perspective-2 NCAA appearances in six years (counting last year’s tournament cancellation as an appearance). A huge improvement over our history in the sport? Yes. Some good national press and star players? Yes.

But she never won a game in the dance and jumped for a mediocre P5 program... So her loyalty to Rice is questionable at best. We shouldn’t give her the treatment that many thought Wayne Graham should’ve gotten (I.e. name your successor, etc).

Not saying you’re suggesting that-just speaking broadly.

Mediocre P5 program? The Huskies were in the Final Four 5 years ago and currently have the 16th best recruiting class. The former coach who took them to the Final Four took the Arkansas job and his replacement couldn’t maintain the success.

Yeah, they did make the final four once in the not so distant past, their only appearance of all-time.

But, between 1999 and 2014, they only made the tournament 4 times, which is below average for a P5 team.

Moral of the story-it’s not an impossible place to win for the right coach but it’s certainly not a “blue blood” WBB program that is turnkey.

Moreover, Washington’s athletic budget was 23rd largest in the country in 2018-19 (most recent year I could find data for)... So squarely in that 25th-75th percentile of schools. If we were able to hold off Penn State last year (6th largest budget), it makes me wonder why we couldn’t do the same with Washington.

(04-06-2021 06:22 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 10:19 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 10:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 09:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 08:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Angie Nelp Assistant HC at Arizona State. Was Langley’s top assistant and the first assistant to get hired away. She is familiar with Rice and all the issues with recruiting at Rice. And she just saw the current players when we beat ASU in the WNIT.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/womens-b...-nelp/4323

Langley received a six-year, $4,050,000 deal that pays her $650,000 during the first two years, $675,000 in years 3 and 4 and $700,000 in the final two years.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...all-coach/

Angie Nelp definitely fits the mold for a Karlgaard hire. And I wouldn't be surprised if Joe asked Tina for any recommendations. Actually, he would have been derelict in his duties if he did not.

I want an experienced college coach; not a former star player with no coaching experience.

Isn’t that what he did with Rhoades with Pera?

Not that Pera has been terrible, but he hasn’t been a slam dunk.

I think the danger with leaning too heavily on your exiting coach’s opinion is two-fold:

1) Coaches don’t want to be upstaged by their successor. So they don’t “aim as high” in their recommendations as they should.
2) They suggest those in their own coaching tree, to the detriment of those who didn’t come up through their system.

Ultimately, Langley was a good coach for us but let’s keep her in perspective-2 NCAA appearances in six years (counting last year’s tournament cancellation as an appearance). A huge improvement over our history in the sport? Yes. Some good national press and star players? Yes.

But she never won a game in the dance and jumped for a mediocre P5 program... So her loyalty to Rice is questionable at best. We shouldn’t give her the treatment that many thought Wayne Graham should’ve gotten (I.e. name your successor, etc).

Not saying you’re suggesting that-just speaking broadly.

Mediocre P5 program? The Huskies were in the Final Four 5 years ago and currently have the 16th best recruiting class. The former coach who took them to the Final Four took the Arkansas job and his replacement couldn’t maintain the success.

Yeah, they did make the final four once in the not so distant past, their only appearance of all-time.

But, between 1999 and 2014, they only made the tournament 4 times, which is below average for a P5 team.

Moral of the story-it’s not an impossible place to win for the right coach but it’s certainly not a “blue blood” WBB program that is turnkey.

Moreover, Washington’s athletic budget was 23rd largest in the country in 2018-19 (most recent year I could find data for)... So squarely in that 25th-75th percentile of schools. If we were able to hold off Penn State last year (6th largest budget), it makes me wonder why we couldn’t do the same with Washington.

I can see both sides of the argument for/against UW being a high-end Wbball job, but I gotta chuckle at the bolded, as would assume at least 100 teams were in the sample population, so 23/100 is better than the 25% of schools right off the bat...

My initial guess was that the numbers you looked at compared D1 football schools, so 129 schools in the population. So that's definitely the top 20% of universities, not somewhere between the 25th and 75th percentile.

But were you looking at USA Today numbers for total revenue? Washington was ranked 23rd out of 227 schools, which didn't appear to include private schools. So it's top 10% of public school athletics revenues at ~$134MM. I would doubt the addition of Duke, Notre Dame, etc. would be enough to knock them down below the top 25%. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

UW certainly isn't a traditional blue blood, but I think it's at least blue blood adjacent and certainly a very attractive program (from support and locale).

In the late 80's and 90's, Stanford and Washington were the two elite women's programs on the west coast. Not just in basketball, but in a lot of women's sports. I'd say Washington has suffered in most of its sports mostly at the expense of Oregon and perhaps some of the southern teams in the Pac 12.

Washington has had some good players recently (Kelsey Plum most notably and Aari McDonald who only played there a year before transferring to Arizona) but they've also missed out on some of the state's best players (Lexie Hull, who just helped - along with her twin sister - Stanford win a national title, and Hailey Van Lith who is doing well now at Louisville). If they can keep the state's best players, they'll be every good as Oregon and Oregon State have been recently. Oregon State is currently having a mass exodus of players so there is something going on with that program.

I was referring to P5 schools (when talking about the 25th-75th percentile).

A couple other points that could have factored into Tina's decision...

1. The Pac-12 is the #1 women's basketball conference

2. Seattle is a great place to live. Perhaps Tina and her family preferred everything that big cities offer over college towns such as Norman, University Park or Auburn.