Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Rice to expand (Chronicle)
Author Message
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,279
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #61
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
Why do we consider that diversity of gender or sex or even geography necessarily leads to diversity of thought, especially as it relates to politics (which is really the most prevalent issue these days)? If you look at places like SF or NYC, you have people from all over the world of every gender and identity, age race and background... and 90% of them vote exactly the same way. Little diversity of 'political' thought.

I'm not complaining about it or saying that its necessarily bad... I'm simply saying that ethnicity, background, age, race, gender and identity (or any of a number of other common criteria these days) doesn't assure diversity of thought... and we have some very large examples.
04-02-2021 01:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
75src Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,591
Joined: Mar 2009
Reputation: 25
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #62
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
We can get Asian Americans instead of PRC nationals. I do not think PRC nationals contribute very much to the academic experience other than money since they do not mix much with other students and are a national security threat. The money can be made up with contributions.

The first Rice death in World War 2 was a former student who fought for the wrong side. He had returned to the Vaterland, drafted into the Wehrmacht and killed in Poland in September 1939.

quote='ExcitedOwl18' pid='17364265' dateline='1617383222']
(04-02-2021 11:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 11:47 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 10:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 10:01 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I don’t have an issue with international students at Rice, I’d just like to see less of them from the PRC.

What sort of applications are we seeing from other countries, both at Rice and at peer institutions?

Are there a massive amount of high-quality students from other countries that want to come to the US, but can't get accepted?

Frankly, in the field I'm most adjacent to (civil/environmental engineering), the foreign grad students from Europe that I know are getting high-quality post-grad degrees in their home countries and don't have a major desire to do a PhD in the US. That is very much Dutch/German/French focused and in one field, but still.

Do we see other nationalities banging and the gates that we aren't letting in?

I think the issue is there was a stated initiative put in place to increase students from PRC (and I think at the time develop a relationship with an academic institution there), but far from novel this has morphed into a recruit full tuition students scheme at many universities. It would be novel to target Sub-Sahara Africa or Latin America or at least get us some rugby talent from NZ and Aussie. But we now pretty much look like we're using the same not so original playbook as the masses.

So less, see less Chinese students, and more increase recruiting from other international locals?

Yes-and in the case that there aren't enough qualified, interested international students, I'd recommend that we accept more from the USA.

At this point, the amount of PRC students at our universities is a national security issue IMO.

However, those who are against Asian students in general (like the poster who rejected "yellow" students) are motivated by racism.
[/quote]
04-02-2021 01:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
75src Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,591
Joined: Mar 2009
Reputation: 25
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #63
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
There are more than enough Texans who want to go to UT so let them in instead of PRC nationals who want to destroy academic freedom.

(04-02-2021 12:19 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 12:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 11:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 11:47 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 10:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  What sort of applications are we seeing from other countries, both at Rice and at peer institutions?

Are there a massive amount of high-quality students from other countries that want to come to the US, but can't get accepted?

Frankly, in the field I'm most adjacent to (civil/environmental engineering), the foreign grad students from Europe that I know are getting high-quality post-grad degrees in their home countries and don't have a major desire to do a PhD in the US. That is very much Dutch/German/French focused and in one field, but still.

Do we see other nationalities banging and the gates that we aren't letting in?

I think the issue is there was a stated initiative put in place to increase students from PRC (and I think at the time develop a relationship with an academic institution there), but far from novel this has morphed into a recruit full tuition students scheme at many universities. It would be novel to target Sub-Sahara Africa or Latin America or at least get us some rugby talent from NZ and Aussie. But we now pretty much look like we're using the same not so original playbook as the masses.

So less, see less Chinese students, and more increase recruiting from other international locals?

Yes-and in the case that there aren't enough qualified, interested international students, I'd recommend that we accept more from the USA.

At this point, the amount of PRC students at our universities is a national security issue IMO.

However, those who are against Asian students in general (like the poster who rejected "yellow" students) are motivated by racism.

A prominent member of the UT faculty faced backlash from the PRC coalition of students last year. He made a comment at the beginning of Covid that if China wants to be seen as a leader of the world they should let the world in to investigate and not suppress data. A majority of the Chinese students (a large portion of tuition) immediately went to the CCP playbook for suppressing dissent. They laughably called his comments racist etc (he’s AA with a Chinese wife). The admin went into damage control and made him apologize. That wasn’t enough for the CCP playbook though. Certain students pushed for a resignation and told potential incoming students to not apply. To UT’s credit they didn’t/couldn’t force the professor out over the issue and he’s still teaching today. Due to Covid visa restrictions the Chinese admissions numbers went way down but it will be interesting to see if they rebound.

Certainly not all, but most of the Chinese students here are extremely wealthy and to get that way you have to be in good standing with the CCP. Take your conclusions from there...
04-02-2021 01:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ExcitedOwl18 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,340
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 68
I Root For: Rice
Location: Northern NJ
Post: #64
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-02-2021 01:18 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Why do we consider that diversity of gender or sex or even geography necessarily leads to diversity of thought, especially as it relates to politics (which is really the most prevalent issue these days)? If you look at places like SF or NYC, you have people from all over the world of every gender and identity, age race and background... and 90% of them vote exactly the same way. Little diversity of 'political' thought.

I'm not complaining about it or saying that its necessarily bad... I'm simply saying that ethnicity, background, age, race, gender and identity (or any of a number of other common criteria these days) doesn't assure diversity of thought... and we have some very large examples.

I can’t speak to SF, but you’re mischaracterizing NY politics. There are deep, deep divisions that go beyond party label. Up until a couple years ago, New York essentially had a three party system... Democrats, republicans, and the “IDC.” Even now, there are some Democrats in NY who are more conservative than most at the national level, especially from the orthodox Jewish areas.

NYC also still has some pretty conservative areas that elect R’s to Congress like Staten Island and South Brooklyn. Good luck electing a R from inside SF/Oakland/San Jose city limits.

At presidential and federal statewide level, yes, NY voted heavily for Biden/Schumer/etc but it ends there.
04-02-2021 01:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RiceLad15 Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 16,642
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 108
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: H-town
Post: #65
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-02-2021 01:58 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 01:18 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Why do we consider that diversity of gender or sex or even geography necessarily leads to diversity of thought, especially as it relates to politics (which is really the most prevalent issue these days)? If you look at places like SF or NYC, you have people from all over the world of every gender and identity, age race and background... and 90% of them vote exactly the same way. Little diversity of 'political' thought.

I'm not complaining about it or saying that its necessarily bad... I'm simply saying that ethnicity, background, age, race, gender and identity (or any of a number of other common criteria these days) doesn't assure diversity of thought... and we have some very large examples.

I can’t speak to SF, but you’re mischaracterizing NY politics. There are deep, deep divisions that go beyond party label. Up until a couple years ago, New York essentially had a three party system... Democrats, republicans, and the “IDC.” Even now, there are some Democrats in NY who are more conservative than most at the national level, especially from the orthodox Jewish areas.

NYC also still has some pretty conservative areas that elect R’s to Congress like Staten Island and South Brooklyn. Good luck electing a R from inside SF/Oakland/San Jose city limits.

At presidential and federal statewide level, yes, NY voted heavily for Biden/Schumer/etc but it ends there.

Absolutely agree with the reductive take that appears to be based primarily on national-level politics (i.e. who gets the vote for POTUS) or the results of a first-past-the-post voting system/

You could also look at a place like Houston, which is clearly just as diverse as NYC, and likely more diverse than SF, and the political attitudes are also diverse. It would be odd to argue that Houston is not full of people from all across the political spectrum, just because they elected a wave of Dems to local offices.

The only way I could see a university clearly developing a diversity of thought is if they explicitly asked probing questions on applications, and let students' personal opinions on political topics impact admissions.

To be fair, it does seem like we aren't actually talking diversity of thought, but rather diversity of opinion. Even like-minded liberals or conservatives likely think differently when it comes to academics (i.e. how to tackle problems, analyze issues, etc.).
04-02-2021 02:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,600
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 50
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #66
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
No matter how much some want to make it a Democratic/Republican issue, it really is not. Many, if not most of us on the left regard China and its "students" as a major security risk. Unfortunately, the PRC seems to own the Rice President, and until the Board acts in a more appropriate way, we are going to be stuck with this current situation.
04-02-2021 02:34 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
waltgreenberg Online
Legend
*

Posts: 33,139
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation: 138
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Chicago

The Parliament Awards
Post: #67
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-02-2021 10:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:57 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:37 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Even though Rice in the mid-60's was not at all diverse in the modern sense, I thought it was very diverse in terms of thought and experience. Kids from all over the world, and of every political bent or none at all.

??? You have a very odd definition of diversity. Back in the mid-60s Rice was over 80% male, over 75% from Texas and virtually no one of color. Not sure how "very diverse" in terms of thought and experience one can have with that demographic makeup.

Walt, IMO you are the one with the odd definition, although it may well be a majority opinion in this odd world we live in.

Like I said in the opening sentence, it was not diverse in the modern sense. But I, from small town Texas, was exposed to a wide variety of experiences in my fellow students - kids who had lived in Panama, France, Norway, an English Lord, a monarchist, a socialist, for example - all white males.

As I said, it was diverse in terms of thought and experience, not race or skin color. I remain convinced that the diversity pf thought and experience brought to Rice by one white male from Croatia or Austria is more than the 20th black female from Bellaire.

International students made up less than 5% of the Rice student base in the mid-1960s, and many of them were grad students, not undergrads.

Well, I am not lying, Walt. I knew all these people. They were all freshmen in my class, the class of '67, except the English Lord, who came a year later.

Even as a wide-eyed undergrad in the mid-60's, I felt that I experienced much more diversity of thought and experience at Rice than I would have at TCU or UT. One of the things that made me glad to be at Rice.

I think diversity is much more than just race. JMHO. Others may prefer to grade diversity on just race. That is their prerogative.

Few people perceive diversity as just race. It's geography. It's gender. It's other things. I can understand you coming from a small town in Texas, and coming to the big city, you perceived diversity. Having said that, Rice in the mid-1960s was anything BUT diverse in almost any demographic category.
04-02-2021 04:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 58,538
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 854
I Root For: Rice
Location: DFW Metroplex

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #68
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-02-2021 04:02 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 10:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:57 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:37 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  ??? You have a very odd definition of diversity. Back in the mid-60s Rice was over 80% male, over 75% from Texas and virtually no one of color. Not sure how "very diverse" in terms of thought and experience one can have with that demographic makeup.

Walt, IMO you are the one with the odd definition, although it may well be a majority opinion in this odd world we live in.

Like I said in the opening sentence, it was not diverse in the modern sense. But I, from small town Texas, was exposed to a wide variety of experiences in my fellow students - kids who had lived in Panama, France, Norway, an English Lord, a monarchist, a socialist, for example - all white males.

As I said, it was diverse in terms of thought and experience, not race or skin color. I remain convinced that the diversity pf thought and experience brought to Rice by one white male from Croatia or Austria is more than the 20th black female from Bellaire.

International students made up less than 5% of the Rice student base in the mid-1960s, and many of them were grad students, not undergrads.

Well, I am not lying, Walt. I knew all these people. They were all freshmen in my class, the class of '67, except the English Lord, who came a year later.

Even as a wide-eyed undergrad in the mid-60's, I felt that I experienced much more diversity of thought and experience at Rice than I would have at TCU or UT. One of the things that made me glad to be at Rice.

I think diversity is much more than just race. JMHO. Others may prefer to grade diversity on just race. That is their prerogative.

Few people perceive diversity as just race. It's geography. It's gender. It's other things. I can understand you coming from a small town in Texas, and coming to the big city, you perceived diversity. Having said that, Rice in the mid-1960s was anything BUT diverse in almost any demographic category.

I see diversity of thought and experience as being non-demographic. I guess you could say my freshman roommate, the gay Catholic monarchist opera lover, was not diverse, as he was demographically "just' a white male. But he exposed me to differences in the ways of thinking that were new and valuable to me. He was as valuable and different at the HS All-America who lived next door, another white male.

There are lots of ways of being different, there are lots of various backgrounds. I think there is way too much emphasis today on what you refer to as "demographic categories". JMHO.

You and I have different definitions of diversity, which is fine and dandy. Mine is based more on what is inside a person's head(let's call this 1960's diversity), and yours seem to be based more on demographic categories(2020's diversity?).
04-02-2021 04:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
waltgreenberg Online
Legend
*

Posts: 33,139
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation: 138
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Chicago

The Parliament Awards
Post: #69
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-02-2021 04:20 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 04:02 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 10:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:57 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Walt, IMO you are the one with the odd definition, although it may well be a majority opinion in this odd world we live in.

Like I said in the opening sentence, it was not diverse in the modern sense. But I, from small town Texas, was exposed to a wide variety of experiences in my fellow students - kids who had lived in Panama, France, Norway, an English Lord, a monarchist, a socialist, for example - all white males.

As I said, it was diverse in terms of thought and experience, not race or skin color. I remain convinced that the diversity pf thought and experience brought to Rice by one white male from Croatia or Austria is more than the 20th black female from Bellaire.

International students made up less than 5% of the Rice student base in the mid-1960s, and many of them were grad students, not undergrads.

Well, I am not lying, Walt. I knew all these people. They were all freshmen in my class, the class of '67, except the English Lord, who came a year later.

Even as a wide-eyed undergrad in the mid-60's, I felt that I experienced much more diversity of thought and experience at Rice than I would have at TCU or UT. One of the things that made me glad to be at Rice.

I think diversity is much more than just race. JMHO. Others may prefer to grade diversity on just race. That is their prerogative.

Few people perceive diversity as just race. It's geography. It's gender. It's other things. I can understand you coming from a small town in Texas, and coming to the big city, you perceived diversity. Having said that, Rice in the mid-1960s was anything BUT diverse in almost any demographic category.

I see diversity of thought and experience as being non-demographic. I guess you could say my freshman roommate, the gay Catholic monarchist opera lover, was not diverse, as he was demographically "just' a white male. But he exposed me to differences in the ways of thinking that were new and valuable to me. He was as valuable and different at the HS All-America who lived next door, another white male.

There are lots of ways of being different, there are lots of various backgrounds. I think there is way too much emphasis today on what you refer to as "demographic categories". JMHO.

You and I have different definitions of diversity, which is fine and dandy. Mine is based more on what is inside a person's head(let's call this 1960's diversity), and yours seem to be based more on demographic categories(2020's diversity?).

This is a really stupid debate...and I promise this will be my last response. There is not a 1960s perception of diversity and a different one in the 2020s. Diversity in thought and experience comes from diversity in demographics-- in any era. That's not to say that mid-1960s Rice did not have people with different backrounds. Of course it did. However, when 75% - 80% of the student population comes from the exact same demographics, diversity in thought and experience will, by definition (not just mine), be minimized.
04-02-2021 04:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 58,538
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 854
I Root For: Rice
Location: DFW Metroplex

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #70
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-02-2021 04:40 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 04:20 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 04:02 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 10:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:57 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  International students made up less than 5% of the Rice student base in the mid-1960s, and many of them were grad students, not undergrads.

Well, I am not lying, Walt. I knew all these people. They were all freshmen in my class, the class of '67, except the English Lord, who came a year later.

Even as a wide-eyed undergrad in the mid-60's, I felt that I experienced much more diversity of thought and experience at Rice than I would have at TCU or UT. One of the things that made me glad to be at Rice.

I think diversity is much more than just race. JMHO. Others may prefer to grade diversity on just race. That is their prerogative.

Few people perceive diversity as just race. It's geography. It's gender. It's other things. I can understand you coming from a small town in Texas, and coming to the big city, you perceived diversity. Having said that, Rice in the mid-1960s was anything BUT diverse in almost any demographic category.

I see diversity of thought and experience as being non-demographic. I guess you could say my freshman roommate, the gay Catholic monarchist opera lover, was not diverse, as he was demographically "just' a white male. But he exposed me to differences in the ways of thinking that were new and valuable to me. He was as valuable and different at the HS All-America who lived next door, another white male.

There are lots of ways of being different, there are lots of various backgrounds. I think there is way too much emphasis today on what you refer to as "demographic categories". JMHO.

You and I have different definitions of diversity, which is fine and dandy. Mine is based more on what is inside a person's head(let's call this 1960's diversity), and yours seem to be based more on demographic categories(2020's diversity?).

This is a really stupid debate...and I promise this will be my last response. There is not a 1960s perception of diversity and a different one in the 2020s. Diversity in thought and experience comes from diversity in demographics-- in any era. That's not to say that mid-1960s Rice did not have people with different backrounds. Of course it did. However, when 75% - 80% of the student population comes from the exact same demographics, diversity in thought and experience will, by definition (not just mine), be minimized.

There are none so blind...

Here I thought we could have and were having a decent discussion about and from differing POVs. My mistake.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2021 09:32 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
04-02-2021 09:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 58,538
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 854
I Root For: Rice
Location: DFW Metroplex

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #71
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
Still wondering why we need to expand.
04-02-2021 09:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RiceLad15 Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 16,642
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 108
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: H-town
Post: #72
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-02-2021 09:11 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Still wondering why we need to expand.

One good argument for it, is that it can allow for a better educational experience. More bodies = more tuition = more funding for faculty. That allows for an expansion in research areas and therefore subject matter experts.

Again, my perspective is heavily influence by CEVE, but look at the size and breadth of CEVE-like departments at top universities (which are larger) and compare them to Rice. Look at the topics the professors study/teach and compare those to Rice.
04-03-2021 08:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
franklyconfused Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 948
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 16
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #73
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-03-2021 08:18 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:11 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Still wondering why we need to expand.

One good argument for it, is that it can allow for a better educational experience. More bodies = more tuition = more funding for faculty. That allows for an expansion in research areas and therefore subject matter experts.

Again, my perspective is heavily influence by CEVE, but look at the size and breadth of CEVE-like departments at top universities (which are larger) and compare them to Rice. Look at the topics the professors study/teach and compare those to Rice.

Almost every conversation I have with a prospective student at some point involves something along the lines of "Rice a small school, so we don't have as many of the [class/extracurricular/amenity] options as [Big State School], but what we have is higher quality due to [better funding/better residence options/more personal professor interactions/etc]." It's great when undergrads get to the 400-level specialty courses with small student counts, but the odds that any given student is actually interested in learning the specific topics that the handful of faculty are interested in teaching at that level are low.
04-03-2021 08:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 58,538
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 854
I Root For: Rice
Location: DFW Metroplex

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #74
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-03-2021 08:37 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  
(04-03-2021 08:18 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:11 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Still wondering why we need to expand.

One good argument for it, is that it can allow for a better educational experience. More bodies = more tuition = more funding for faculty. That allows for an expansion in research areas and therefore subject matter experts.

Again, my perspective is heavily influence by CEVE, but look at the size and breadth of CEVE-like departments at top universities (which are larger) and compare them to Rice. Look at the topics the professors study/teach and compare those to Rice.

Almost every conversation I have with a prospective student at some point involves something along the lines of "Rice a small school, so we don't have as many of the [class/extracurricular/amenity] options as [Big State School], but what we have is higher quality due to [better funding/better residence options/more personal professor interactions/etc]." It's great when undergrads get to the 400-level specialty courses with small student counts, but the odds that any given student is actually interested in learning the specific topics that the handful of faculty are interested in teaching at that level are low.

Thanks for the responses.

So, are schools like CalTech and MIT also eXpanding?

Also wondering if there is a sweet spot to aim for, or is eternal expansion the way of the future?
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2021 08:47 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
04-03-2021 08:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RiceLad15 Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 16,642
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 108
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: H-town
Post: #75
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-03-2021 08:40 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-03-2021 08:37 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  
(04-03-2021 08:18 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-02-2021 09:11 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Still wondering why we need to expand.

One good argument for it, is that it can allow for a better educational experience. More bodies = more tuition = more funding for faculty. That allows for an expansion in research areas and therefore subject matter experts.

Again, my perspective is heavily influence by CEVE, but look at the size and breadth of CEVE-like departments at top universities (which are larger) and compare them to Rice. Look at the topics the professors study/teach and compare those to Rice.

Almost every conversation I have with a prospective student at some point involves something along the lines of "Rice a small school, so we don't have as many of the [class/extracurricular/amenity] options as [Big State School], but what we have is higher quality due to [better funding/better residence options/more personal professor interactions/etc]." It's great when undergrads get to the 400-level specialty courses with small student counts, but the odds that any given student is actually interested in learning the specific topics that the handful of faculty are interested in teaching at that level are low.

Thanks for the responses.

So, are schools like CalTech and MIT also eXpanding?

Also wondering if there is a sweet spot to aim for, or is eternal expansion the way of the future?

MIT’s total enrollment is over 11k. Cal Tech is much smaller (total around 2k), but my understanding is that Cal Tech is a specialty school in a way Rice isn’t.
04-03-2021 11:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
elw4796 Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,552
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 49
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #76
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
Here's a Forbes article that focuses on expansion as a way to increase *socioeconomic* diversity, written by a former college president.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnie...2ee316b6a7
04-03-2021 12:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
georgewebb Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,582
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 110
I Root For: Rice!
Location:

The Parliament AwardsDonators
Post: #77
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-03-2021 12:07 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  Here's a Forbes article that focuses on expansion as a way to increase *socioeconomic* diversity, written by a former college president.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnie...2ee316b6a7

The article seems to make two big logical leaps, in assuming that increasing enrollment is both NECESSARY and SUFFICIENT to increase the proportion of students who are Pell Grant recipients.

But neither is true:
- Rice could increase the Pell Grant proportion while keeping the overall student body the same.
- Rice could increase the overall student body while keeping the Pell Grant proportion the same.

Increasing the Pell Grant proportion may be a good idea, but it seems orthogonal to the size of the student body.
04-03-2021 12:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
georgewebb Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,582
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 110
I Root For: Rice!
Location:

The Parliament AwardsDonators
Post: #78
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
Another way to immediately increase socioeconomic diversity at zero cost to Rice would be be to expand the ROTC programs. Right now Rice has an NROTC unit (which is quite highly regarded) but not Army or Air Force.

ROTC allows students with no family wealth at all to attend great universities, without any subsidy by the university. It is one of the most mobility-inducing programs in the entire educational landscape, and has been for a century or so.
04-03-2021 12:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cr11owl Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,717
Joined: Feb 2009
Reputation: 29
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #79
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-03-2021 12:39 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Another way to immediately increase socioeconomic diversity at zero cost to Rice would be be to expand the ROTC programs. Right now Rice has an NROTC unit (which is quite highly regarded) but not Army or Air Force.

ROTC allows students with no family wealth at all to attend great universities, without any subsidy by the university. It is one of the most mobility-inducing programs in the entire educational landscape, and has been for a century or so.

I’ve always wondered why Rice only had the Navy ROTC program. I’ve heard several people say UH had Army and Air Force so we didn’t add them.
04-03-2021 01:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Almadenmike Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,573
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 161
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: San Jose, Calif.

DonatorsNew Orleans BowlDonators
Post: #80
RE: Rice to expand (Chronicle)
(04-03-2021 01:45 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  I’ve always wondered why Rice only had the Navy ROTC program. I’ve heard several people say UH had Army and Air Force so we didn’t add them.

We had Army ROTC at least into the early 70s. (I was in it/Class of 1970.) Don't know when/why it was dropped.
04-03-2021 02:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.