So just wondering how WKU fans feel about these two coaches? They both have had 5 seasons at WKU.

Harper had respectable regular season records, but really shined come conference tournament time having made the NCAA tournament twice, something Stansbury hasn't accomplished yet.

Stansbury is an excellent recruiter and WKU's teams have had some great talent under Stansbury, but he has, in my opinion, underperformed come tournament time. Reminds me of Kermit a bit until he was finally able to push past that barrier and win a conference tourney.

I think Stansbury is still the more desirable coach, but was curious how WKU fans felt.


RAY HARPER




RICK STANSBURY

All I'll say is I have no idea what would be the upside at WKU if he had Stanz recruiting AND Harpers in game management and player development. I can only dream.

(03-26-2021 08:27 AM)topper1296 Wrote:  All I'll say is I have no idea what would be the upside at WKU if he had Stanz recruiting AND Harpers in game management and player development. I can only dream.

Let's just combine the teams from UNT and WKU. Northwestern Kentexas. McCasland coaching up Stansbury recruits. That's a recipe for Sweet 16 right there.

Going by winning percentage, I'd definitely take Stansbury (.636) over Harper (.588). Some coaches recruit better than they coach, and others coach better than they recruit. Going strictly by winning percentage, from someone who hasn't really followed WKU basketball until UTSA joined C-USA, it appears Stansbury's recruiting trumps Harper's game management.

That rare coach who can both recruit top talent and also coach like a mf'er typically ends up at a Gonzaga, Duke, or other perennial basketball power. Having said that, from looking at who WKU has had in the past, it's a shame WKU lost Darrin Horn to South Carolina. He struggled at South Carolina against SEC coaches and has since gone to Northern Kentucky, but from looking at his seasons coaching the Hilltoppers, it seems WKU was a great fit for him as he went 111-48 (.698) over 5 seasons and improved almost every year there...

2003: 15-13
2004: 22-9
2005: 23-8
2006: 22-11
2007: 29-7

I'm just hoping that once UTSA finally gets a decent basketball arena, we'll be able to turn things around as UNT has. I really and truly feel that our pitiful excuse for an arena and low turnout for basketball games is holding us back. Not that facilities are a magical elixir, but they definitely help to pull in those one or two upper level D1 recruits who can make the difference between a conference contender and a conference champion. We've had a nice one-two punch at guard these last 4 years, but had very little of an inside game and that one-dimensional aspect was too much to overcome. Having a Bassey or someone similar inside would've changed the whole landscape, and in basketball, one solid big man inside along with a couple scoring threats from outside is often all it takes.

(03-26-2021 08:07 AM)tyler90wm Wrote:  So just wondering how WKU fans feel about these two coaches? They both have had 5 seasons at WKU.

Harper had respectable regular season records, but really shined come conference tournament time having made the NCAA tournament twice, something Stansbury hasn't accomplished yet.

Stansbury is an excellent recruiter and WKU's teams have had some great talent under Stansbury, but he has, in my opinion, underperformed come tournament time. Reminds me of Kermit a bit until he was finally able to push past that barrier and win a conference tourney.

I think Stansbury is still the more desirable coach, but was curious how WKU fans felt.


RAY HARPER




RICK STANSBURY

Before YGs comes in for Harper, its clearly Stansbury. Harpers teams were so bad in regular season it didn't matter what we did in March, because we were always going to be a 16th seed with an uphill battle. Stansbury can clearly bring talent in at WKU but like most his coaching is left to be desired. I really think his laid back approach is not ideal for March in do or die situations. Harper was much better, but he also had Sun Belt. CUSA is much better than Sun Belt, so doubt Harper would win 1 CUSA tournament, much less 2 winning 4 games in 4 days. Only done once since WKU joined conference, with the Mean Green getting it done.

One could argue WKU got more benefits under Harper just being in NCAA tournament. However I disagree, us beating Alabama was talked by talking heads all season to where WKU had a chance to become an HH name. Now will be forgotten but we had the chance to capitalize on that but did not. Same as when we beat Purdue, Oklahoma St, Wisconsin, Arkansas, etc. Stansbury just has to figure out March, it took Kermit Davis a very long time to figure it out and maybe Stansbury never gets it figured out. I do think he needs a younger guy fired up assistant who can maybe motivate and get our guys going when needed....Short answer to question though, Stansbury and its not close for most WKU fans...Ones that disagree were friends with Harper himself...Ideal world a mixture of both would be unreal...

(03-26-2021 09:10 AM)Volkmar Wrote:  Going by winning percentage, I'd definitely take Stansbury (.636) over Harper (.588). Some coaches recruit better than they coach, and others coach better than they recruit. Going strictly by winning percentage, from someone who hasn't really followed WKU basketball until UTSA joined C-USA, it appears Stansbury's recruiting trumps Harper's game management.

That rare coach who can both recruit top talent and also coach like a mf'er typically ends up at a Gonzaga, Duke, or other perennial basketball power. Having said that, from looking at who WKU has had in the past, it's a shame WKU lost Darrin Horn to South Carolina. He struggled at South Carolina against SEC coaches and has since gone to Northern Kentucky, but from looking at his seasons coaching the Hilltoppers, it seems WKU was a great fit for him as he went 111-48 (.698) over 5 seasons and improved almost every year there...

2003: 15-13
2004: 22-9
2005: 23-8
2006: 22-11
2007: 29-7

I'm just hoping that once UTSA finally gets a decent basketball arena, we'll be able to turn things around as UNT has. I really and truly feel that our pitiful excuse for an arena and low turnout for basketball games is holding us back. Not that facilities are a magical elixir, but they definitely help to pull in those one or two upper level D1 recruits who can make the difference between a conference contender and a conference champion. We've had a nice one-two punch at guard these last 4 years, but had very little of an inside game and that one-dimensional aspect was too much to overcome. Having a Bassey or someone similar inside would've changed the whole landscape, and in basketball, one solid big man inside along with a couple scoring threats from outside is often all it takes.

Agree, in retrospect having an alum like Horn was a good fit. He knew WKU hoops inside and out, but he struggled with expectations while at WKU. Some in fanbase didnt like the fact he wouldn't shake your hand. By the time he finally got us to promise land, most WKU Fans gave credit to him adding Scott Cherry on staff for Xs and Os. Horn was a little like Stansbury, but finding CLee and Evans, under the radar guys really held him. You can say he would have continued having success but doesn't hurt too land 2 gems studs under the radar players..USC, Georgia are hard places to win. Nate Oats at Bama looks like a different breed of a coach, rare to make it work at football schools. Peral up and down at Auburn, Kermit will be fired here soon at Ole Miss..

Agree 100% about UTSA's arena, how the hell did you even get the womens tournament. No wonder women are arguing how bad they are treated. I am really surprised Jackson and Wallace stayed all 4 years at UTSA, if they had gone to portal, both would be highly sought after. Do you know if they are coming back? I agree with you for WKU having Bassey and you guys have those two guards, it does seem like a waste for both of us...Shame...

(03-26-2021 09:57 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(03-26-2021 09:10 AM)Volkmar Wrote:  Going by winning percentage, I'd definitely take Stansbury (.636) over Harper (.588). Some coaches recruit better than they coach, and others coach better than they recruit. Going strictly by winning percentage, from someone who hasn't really followed WKU basketball until UTSA joined C-USA, it appears Stansbury's recruiting trumps Harper's game management.

That rare coach who can both recruit top talent and also coach like a mf'er typically ends up at a Gonzaga, Duke, or other perennial basketball power. Having said that, from looking at who WKU has had in the past, it's a shame WKU lost Darrin Horn to South Carolina. He struggled at South Carolina against SEC coaches and has since gone to Northern Kentucky, but from looking at his seasons coaching the Hilltoppers, it seems WKU was a great fit for him as he went 111-48 (.698) over 5 seasons and improved almost every year there...

2003: 15-13
2004: 22-9
2005: 23-8
2006: 22-11
2007: 29-7

I'm just hoping that once UTSA finally gets a decent basketball arena, we'll be able to turn things around as UNT has. I really and truly feel that our pitiful excuse for an arena and low turnout for basketball games is holding us back. Not that facilities are a magical elixir, but they definitely help to pull in those one or two upper level D1 recruits who can make the difference between a conference contender and a conference champion. We've had a nice one-two punch at guard these last 4 years, but had very little of an inside game and that one-dimensional aspect was too much to overcome. Having a Bassey or someone similar inside would've changed the whole landscape, and in basketball, one solid big man inside along with a couple scoring threats from outside is often all it takes.

Agree, in retrospect having an alum like Horn was a good fit. He knew WKU hoops inside and out, but he struggled with expectations while at WKU. Some in fanbase didnt like the fact he wouldn't shake your hand. By the time he finally got us to promise land, most WKU Fans gave credit to him adding Scott Cherry on staff for Xs and Os. Horn was a little like Stansbury, but finding CLee and Evans, under the radar guys really held him. You can say he would have continued having success but doesn't hurt too land 2 gems studs under the radar players..USC, Georgia are hard places to win. Nate Oats at Bama looks like a different breed of a coach, rare to make it work at football schools. Peral up and down at Auburn, Kermit will be fired here soon at Ole Miss..

Agree 100% about UTSA's arena, how the hell did you even get the womens tournament. No wonder women are arguing how bad they are treated. I am really surprised Jackson and Wallace stayed all 4 years at UTSA, if they had gone to portal, both would be highly sought after. Do you know if they are coming back? I agree with you for WKU having Bassey and you guys have those two guards, it does seem like a waste for both of us...Shame...

I truly have no idea how we ended up hosting any part of the women's tournament either. And yeah, what the NCAA did to the women this year was an embarrassment. Like you, I was also surprised that Jackson and Wallace actually did stay all 4 years. Maybe they really like playing for Coach Henson? Not sure. I haven't heard anything about whether they'll return next season though.

I feel as though both Jackson and Wallace would've probably been even more effective if they were on a team with a legitimate inside threat because they would've then had more breathing space to shoot from the perimeter. They may not have scored as many points because they wouldn't have needed to, but I imagine their shooting percentages would've been higher. Yeah, them and Bassey on the same team would've been a dream for any coach.

Stansbury is a good coach. As far as all this talent WKU has, I just don’t see it. And I have watched them multiple times this year. Yes they have some athletic players but other than Bassey nothing that’s any better than Tech or UAB.

(03-26-2021 10:37 AM)Dawgxas Wrote:  Stansbury is a good coach. As far as all this talent WKU has, I just don’t see it. And I have watched them multiple times this year. Yes they have some athletic players but other than Bassey nothing that’s any better than Tech or UAB.

We are paper tigers. As far as recruiting rankings go, we should be ahead of everyone in the conference by a wide margin, but our players never really seem to develop that talent. We had 5* Bassey, 4* Rawls, 4* Anderson, multiple KY Mr. Basketballs. Either those guys were overrated coming into college, or Stansbury doesn't know how to utilize their talents (or build a roster that compliments each other).

Harper was a great X's and O's coach, but a terrible roster manager. I also wasn't a fan of how boring we were to watch under him.

Both coaches suffered from winning a big one. Harper could get us to the NCAA tournament in the Sun Belt, but as a 16 with no chance of winning a game.

Stansbury can't get past the C-USA tournament title game.

Both are short of the mark most WKU fans have for the program.

I will take a ncaa bid any day over water cooler rankings on recruiting. I wouldnt say no chance of winning a game as a 16 seed. I was sitting in the stands as Western led #1 seed Kansas for most of that game and lost the game by lthe same margin as Tech last night. But a lot closer game. I guarantee more eyes was on that Western vs Kansas game than a NIT F4. Hell Western never makes it to the NIT much less the NIT F4 with out JJ....a Harper recruit

As for this so called recruiting its one thing to get a kid to sign with a school and its another to get them to play. Harper cant be as terrible roster manager as Stansbury....Most of his recruits played 1 year or less

Harper never had the backing of Western and to this day is the only coach at Western to NEVER get a rollover year. Unless a coach at Western does something crazy, stupid, their contract rollsover for another year at the end of June. When Harper got the job he was told the type of players he had to recruit...Boy scouts. That did not change till year 3.

I'm talking firsthand info because my wife and Harpers were very close friends (going on 15 years) and while I was not as close as those two I was/am friends with Harper.

Here's the list of players over the past 5 seasons and the years they played at Western. The players with ZERO years played were signed and took up a scholarship

The total avg is 1.3 years over the past 5 seasons. Of course some players will be back next year but my guess 1 to 3 of those under classmen will transfer

Harper means the player was not a Stansbury recruit but is added to the total avg years played. I added in the games and minutes played for a few players still on the team. I did this because in 5 seasons under Stansbury...ZERO players have played meaningful minutes when they did not avg at least 15 mpg in their first season.


image hosting

(03-26-2021 11:44 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I will take a ncaa bid any day over water cooler rankings on recruiting. I wouldnt say no chance of winning a game as a 16 seed. I was sitting in the stands as Western led #1 seed Kansas for most of that game and lost the game by lthe same margin as Tech last night. But a lot closer game. I guarantee more eyes was on that Western vs Kansas game than a NIT F4. Hell Western never makes it to the NIT much less the NIT F4 with out JJ....a Harper recruit

As for this so called recruiting its one thing to get a kid to sign with a school and its another to get them to play. Harper cant be as terrible roster manager as Stansbury....Most of his recruits played 1 year or less

Harper never had the backing of Western and to this day is the only coach at Western to NEVER get a rollover year. Unless a coach at Western does something crazy, stupid, their contract rollsover for another year at the end of June. When Harper got the job he was told the type of players he had to recruit...Boy scouts. That did not change till year 3.

I'm talking firsthand info because my wife and Harpers were very close friends (going on 15 years) and while I was not as close as those two I was/am friends with Harper.

Well this makes me feel better, no shame to take up for a friend and explains a lot of your viewpoints, thank you.

Neutral observer, Stansbury was better, sorry man. Not saying WKU is a powerhouse but every 4-5 seasons we made a run in NCAA with 90 years of data to back this up. Since 2009 when we lost at buzzer to Gonzaga for a Sweet 16 berth, this program has just not been the same, hard to pinpoint and it could very well coincide with our football program going to FBS. Makes some sense as you rarely see a program in our conference make noise in both sports. All I know is I am sick of NITs and was even sicker of losing to average teams and have 14 losses under Harper in regular season with 1 win at Ole Miss worth 10 cents in the regular season. Less of the two disappointments is Stansbury and its not close..

(03-26-2021 01:40 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(03-26-2021 11:44 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  I will take a ncaa bid any day over water cooler rankings on recruiting. I wouldnt say no chance of winning a game as a 16 seed. I was sitting in the stands as Western led #1 seed Kansas for most of that game and lost the game by lthe same margin as Tech last night. But a lot closer game. I guarantee more eyes was on that Western vs Kansas game than a NIT F4. Hell Western never makes it to the NIT much less the NIT F4 with out JJ....a Harper recruit

As for this so called recruiting its one thing to get a kid to sign with a school and its another to get them to play. Harper cant be as terrible roster manager as Stansbury....Most of his recruits played 1 year or less

Harper never had the backing of Western and to this day is the only coach at Western to NEVER get a rollover year. Unless a coach at Western does something crazy, stupid, their contract rollsover for another year at the end of June. When Harper got the job he was told the type of players he had to recruit...Boy scouts. That did not change till year 3.

I'm talking firsthand info because my wife and Harpers were very close friends (going on 15 years) and while I was not as close as those two I was/am friends with Harper.

Well this makes me feel better, no shame to take up for a friend and explains a lot of your viewpoints, thank you.

Neutral observer, Stansbury was better, sorry man. Not saying WKU is a powerhouse but every 4-5 seasons we made a run in NCAA with 90 years of data to back this up. Since 2009 when we lost at buzzer to Gonzaga for a Sweet 16 berth, this program has just not been the same, hard to pinpoint and it could very well coincide with our football program going to FBS. Makes some sense as you rarely see a program in our conference make noise in both sports. All I know is I am sick of NITs and was even sicker of losing to average teams and have 14 losses under Harper in regular season with 1 win at Ole Miss worth 10 cents in the regular season. Less of the two disappointments is Stansbury and its not close..

Harpers hands were tied because of a low APR scores the previous two years. He was given the job with a clear message...do not take chances on the kids that will lower it. That was for two years. Since a lot of people want to look at recruit rankings.....

if you compare the last two years of Harper you will see recruiting was picking up. Other than Bassey Stansbury has not recruited a player that played for him (other than 1 one and done GT) that was as good or better than JJ and Fredrick Edmond. Willie Carmichael and Jabari McGhee both had offers from at least 5 SEC schools. T.J. Price was light years better basketball player than Josh. Fant was better than Williams. I dont give a crap how many 4 star players Stansbury got to sign at Western. They all left without playing. Or very little. Dont take that to me I think Harpers recruiting was even in the same neighborhood of Stansbury's. It wasnt. But when you look at who actually played for Western and what they did at Western. Recruiting for Stansbury is a big bust

Harper had the same problem we have now...PG play

I'm learning stuff reading this thread.

In case anyone who knows I'm a teacher is wondering, it's a teacher work day today - kids aren't coming back to school from Spring Break until Monday - and I'm already done with all we were tasked to do. So I've been amusing myself with research on everything from WKU's coaches to mass shootings. lol

(03-26-2021 01:10 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Here's the list of players over the past 5 seasons and the years they played at Western. The players with ZERO years played were signed and took up a scholarship

The total avg is 1.3 years over the past 5 seasons. Of course some players will be back next year but my guess 1 to 3 of those under classmen will transfer

Harper means the player was not a Stansbury recruit but is added to the total avg years played. I added in the games and minutes played for a few players still on the team. I did this because in 5 seasons under Stansbury...ZERO players have played meaningful minutes when they did not avg at least 15 mpg in their first season.


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Do you have the same data for Harper? Genuinely curious as to how they stack up. My feel is that we had a lot of turnover early with Stansbury, but that it has started to even out over the past season or two.

(03-26-2021 02:27 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  I'm learning stuff reading this thread.

In case anyone who knows I'm a teacher is wondering, it's a teacher work day today - kids aren't coming back to school from Spring Break until Monday - and I'm already done with all we were tasked to do. So I've been amusing myself with research on everything from WKU's coaches to mass shootings. lol

Longest period in our history with no NCAA Tourney and conference championship. First time in our history a coach has not went to the NCAA Tourney with in 5 seasons.

Some of our fans dont consider the last 2 trips as worthy because of the 16 seed. While not something you want at any point. Its still way better than not getting a bid or winning the conference championship.

What those fans are not looking at...todays 16 seed was a 15 seed a few years ago. But the feeling of winning a conference championship and losing even knowing you are getting a 15 or 16 seed....

there's no comparison. Especially when you are looking at a 7 to 10 hour drive home. I was at the last 2 Western won and the 5 we lost under Stansbury. Well covid stopped last years but we were still there.

Believe me the buzz going around the arena with Western up on #1 seed Kansas was light years ahead of any first round game I was in attendance, that Western played. Western still put a scare into Kansas, down only 4 with about a minute to play.

At that point seeding doesnt matter

But if you listen to some Western fans....hey seem to be ashamed Western made another NCAA Tourney. The 23rd in Western's history and last one. To some beating a few middle of the road p5 schools then laying a egg in the conference tourney....

means more

The idiots who pushed out horn were crazy. He would have stayed and become a
God.

(03-26-2021 03:27 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  The idiots who pushed out horn were crazy. He would have stayed and become a
God.

Wait, he was pushed out? I had assumed, with the success he had and even being a WKU alumnus, that South Carolina (SEC $$ and all) made an offer he couldn't refuse and that he moved on.

Noticed an MT fan started this stupid thread.

(03-26-2021 03:32 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  

(03-26-2021 03:27 PM)Jack Bauer Wrote:  The idiots who pushed out horn were crazy. He would have stayed and become a
God.

Wait, he was pushed out? I had assumed, with the success he had and even being a WKU alumnus, that South Carolina (SEC $$ and all) made an offer he couldn't refuse and that he moved on.

His seat was getting very warm before the Sweet 16 run. Had Lee and a great cast of players to go with him for 4 seasons up to that point with no bid to show for it (granted Lee was not 100% during one of the conference tournaments before that). We finally made the dance and thanks to a hail mary 3 by Ty Rogers avoided blowing a double digit lead in the last 8 minutes against Drake in the first round to advance.

A lot of fans didn't like his personality. He wasn't a salesman like Stansbury (or even Harper). He came across as very cold and unlikeable. I would have liked for him to stay because he was building something at WKU at the time, but he 100% left for the pay day at South Carolina.