Here's the what if: When Paterno 1st learns Sandusky is a monster, he go directly to the town (NOT campus) police. The obvious thing they changes is he leaves Penn State because he died, reputation intact.

(03-24-2021 08:43 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Here's the what if: When Paterno 1st learns Sandusky is a monster, he go directly to the town (NOT campus) police. The obvious thing they changes is he leaves Penn State because he died, reputation intact.

Honestly, this would have had major repercussions for even the NFL.

If JoePa isn't fired by Penn State, he could have named a successor before his death, or Penn State wouldn't have started looking until after his death, meaning Bill O'Brien is likely not the candidate. Based on reports from late 2011/early 2012, there were a number of high profile candidates who had no interest in the program due to the scandal, but if they're looking to replace the honored Joe Paterno, they get one of the candidates they want.

If BOB isn't hired at Penn State at this time, he could have stayed with New England, been hired at another school whose candidate may have been taken by Penn State, or been hired by one fo the many NFL teams looking for a head coach at the time. This also means that the Houston Texans would have likely picked a different candidate in 2014, meaning they don't see many of the highs & lows experienced under the man from 2014-2020.

Do we know how long Paterno knew about the abuse? When is the earliest reported incident?

(03-25-2021 11:08 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do we know how long Paterno knew about the abuse? When is the earliest reported incident?

That's what I was thinking. You're going back as far as 1976 now. That's really even before Paterno wins his titles...with Sandusky defenses.

I've come to wonder what fraction "Paterno's legacy" would be if Jerry got axed in '76 and Paterno didn't have Sandusky's contributions to lean on. Dude had four losing seasons in five years immediately after Sandusky retired. The best of Penn State WAS the Sandusky era. That's when Joe really got that "god" status around him up there. If he doesn't win as much, and they aren't getting titles...what legacy, you know?

I wish the school had gotten rid of all three of them (Sandusky, Paterno, and Tarman) in '76. You might have had a more willing partner to discuss an eastern sports conference and a different philosophy on basketball without that stubborn control-freak mucking it up.

(03-25-2021 01:12 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(03-25-2021 11:08 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do we know how long Paterno knew about the abuse? When is the earliest reported incident?

That's what I was thinking. You're going back as far as 1976 now. That's really even before Paterno wins his titles...with Sandusky defenses.

I've come to wonder what fraction "Paterno's legacy" would be if Jerry got axed in '76 and Paterno didn't have Sandusky's contributions to lean on. Dude had four losing seasons in five years immediately after Sandusky retired. The best of Penn State WAS the Sandusky era. That's when Joe really got that "god" status around him up there. If he doesn't win as much, and they aren't getting titles...what legacy, you know?

I wish the school had gotten rid of all three of them (Sandusky, Paterno, and Tarman) in '76. You might have had a more willing partner to discuss an eastern sports conference and a different philosophy on basketball without that stubborn control-freak mucking it up.

That’s why you wanted them fired after what they did/know? For an Eastern sports conference?

(03-24-2021 08:43 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Here's the what if: When Paterno 1st learns Sandusky is a monster, he go directly to the town (NOT campus) police.

I forget the details of the case, but did Paterno go to the campus police when he first found out about Sandusky? If so, that would seem appropriate, as IIRC campus police are usually "real police", they have the same authorization to investigate and arrest that city police do.

I've always thought "campus police" worked on behalf of the school. Meaning: they do what it takes to protect the school.

At first I thought this meant he offered to share revenue in the early 80’s for an all-sports conference...

(03-26-2021 12:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I've always thought "campus police" worked on behalf of the school. Meaning: they do what it takes to protect the school.

Most campus police forces consist of sworn officers, meaning they are required to uphold the laws of the state, etc. Sure, there might be corrupt officers in any police force, but at Penn State, the campus police are "real police". If you report something to them, you are reporting it to official government law enforcement.

(03-26-2021 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-26-2021 12:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I've always thought "campus police" worked on behalf of the school. Meaning: they do what it takes to protect the school.

Most campus police forces consist of sworn officers, meaning they are required to uphold the laws of the state, etc. Sure, there might be corrupt officers in any police force, but at Penn State, the campus police are "real police". If you report something to them, you are reporting it to official government law enforcement.

Right. There are two forces: University Park and State College. But, UPark rolls up to someone within the University. This was Schultz. It's not necessarily the same at State College. Where I came to loathe Paterno after this was that McCreary came to him in State College, and Paterno took it back onto University Park. A deliberate and administratively savvy move by Paterno. Even if University Park is where the Sandusky stuff took place, Paterno didn't immediately call SC police for them to create their own records on this when McCreary came over to State College to report it to Paterno (which very well could have been pushed back to University Park, but, it was something not afforded to State College to do). In fact, doing so probably would have mobilized local district investigators onto the scene. The "Schultz equivalent" in SC is a district attorney, not some administrative suit. Schultz, already having gone through the 1998 allegation, used his venue to jump on the grenade and not let another force or body in on the investigation. It still makes me fume. What awful, craven, soulless people these were.

On a side note, it's (kinda?) a known thing at Main Campus that while your parties are best done off-campus, in State College, where there might be more tolerance locally for some activities, it was a matter of what kind of punishments came down whether you did something stupid in University Park or did it in State College. UPark could do academic-related things, kick you off campus, expel you, or make you perform community service. State College, you were getting the tickets, fines, handcuffs, mug shots, etc.. Different tracks.

Quote:That’s why you wanted them fired after what they did/know? For an Eastern sports conference?

No, and I honestly hope there's more to spotlight on all of the people across the years who had their hand in covering this up (Tarman got off the easiest, imo...dementia and statutes spared him), even if he and Paterno can't defend themselves from whatever is put out there. It's just that the taint of Paterno cast across so much of Penn State athletics that it does rub against all of that conference stuff, as well as the orientation of the overall athletic department. It's a lot of damage, and none of it had to happen.

(03-26-2021 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-26-2021 12:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I've always thought "campus police" worked on behalf of the school. Meaning: they do what it takes to protect the school.

Most campus police forces consist of sworn officers, meaning they are required to uphold the laws of the state, etc. Sure, there might be corrupt officers in any police force, but at Penn State, the campus police are "real police". If you report something to them, you are reporting it to official government law enforcement.

SUNY campus Police Officers are sworn law enforcement officers in New York they have the same authority as a NYPD officer or NYSP Trooper. The SUNY Police Officers are squared away.

(03-26-2021 12:53 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(03-26-2021 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-26-2021 12:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I've always thought "campus police" worked on behalf of the school. Meaning: they do what it takes to protect the school.

Most campus police forces consist of sworn officers, meaning they are required to uphold the laws of the state, etc. Sure, there might be corrupt officers in any police force, but at Penn State, the campus police are "real police". If you report something to them, you are reporting it to official government law enforcement.

SUNY campus Police Officers are sworn law enforcement officers in New York they have the same authority as a NYPD officer or NYSP Trooper. The SUNY Police Officers are squared away.

Yep, that's the case with most campus police.

Thanks for reassuring me my cynicism WRT campus police is unwarranted.