Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
Author Message
interwebowl Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 92
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 13
I Root For: rice coastal
Location:
Post: #1
Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
I remember when Rice beat Oregon at the Eugene regional. As the Rice fans were celebrating, the students from Oregon we're chanting one sport school, one sport school. Of course they were correct, but at least we used to have one sport we were good at. My friend Shingles and I were just happy to celebrate!

Now under this failed regime we have none of any that fans care about. I used to think we could join the Southland or the Sun Belt, but clearly those teams are way too good for us anymore as our early season record suggests.

Fear not, as I think Braggadocious has found the answer. We need to join the SWAC. Now I know we are not historically black, but we do historically suck at most sports when matched up against P5 and Go6 teams which makes us have something in common with our new SWAC brethren. It would be great to see Rice baseball be a feared opponent once again and I think the SWAC is really our only hope for that. Braggadocious put together what has to be the weakest OOC schedule I have ever seen Rice play and he is winning the games against the truly awful opponents and getting run ruled by mediocre teams. Who needs to get this move going? At least the halftimes at football would be entertaining again.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2021 01:59 AM by interwebowl.)
03-20-2021 10:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


wiessguy Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,223
Joined: Aug 2007
Reputation: 9
I Root For: Da Owls
Location: Houston, TX
Post: #2
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
Well, just about every other option has been discussed here.

Like every where else we’ve landed, we’d be cellar dwellers in 3-4 years in the SWAC.
03-20-2021 11:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
75src Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,591
Joined: Mar 2009
Reputation: 25
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
The historically black schools could rise if better facilities were available for youth and high school baseball in black neighborhoods.
03-21-2021 01:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
interwebowl Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 92
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 13
I Root For: rice coastal
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
Agreed. That is not the plan though because if they rise then we sink.
03-21-2021 02:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
interwebowl Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 92
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 13
I Root For: rice coastal
Location:
Post: #5
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMsigs0gglQ/...3umvqc2x50

This is so sad and pathetic. If we were in the SWAC maybe.
03-21-2021 05:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dragon2owl Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,146
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation: 37
I Root For: RICE
Location: Houston
Post: #6
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-21-2021 05:51 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  https://www.instagram.com/p/CMsigs0gglQ/...3umvqc2x50

This is so sad and pathetic. If we were in the SWAC maybe.

What was it? The link no longer exists?
03-21-2021 06:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 80,655
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 3192
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #7
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-20-2021 11:47 PM)wiessguy Wrote:  Well, just about every other option has been discussed here.
Like every where else we’ve landed, we’d be cellar dwellers in 3-4 years in the SWAC.

This.

It is absurd to cry over what conference we are in, when over the last 50 years we have pretty consistently gravitated toward the bottom of whatever conference we were in. Except Wayne Graham's baseball team, so we fired him
03-21-2021 06:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tomball Owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,293
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 71
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Comal County
Post: #8
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-20-2021 10:32 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  I remember when Rice beat Oregon at the Eugene regional. As the Rice fans were celebrating, the students from Oregon we're chanting one sport school, one sport school. Of course they were correct, but at least we used to have one sport we were good at. My friend Shingles and I were just happy to celebrate!

Now under this failed regime we have none of any that fans care about. I used to think we could join the Southland or the Sun Belt, but clearly those teams are way too good for us anymore as our early season record suggests.

Fear not, as I think Braggadocious has found the answer. We need to join the SWAC. Now I know we are not historically black, but we do historically suck at most sports when matched up against P5 and Go6 teams which makes us have something in common with our new SWAC brethren. It would be great to see Rice baseball be a feared opponent once again and I think the SWAC is really our only hope for that. Braggadocious put together what has to be the weakest OOC schedule I have ever seen Rice play and he is winning the games against the truly awful opponents and getting run ruled by mediocre teams. Who needs to get this move going? At least the halftimes at football would be entertaining again.

Sunday’s loss is on you. Even the suggestion of moving to the SWAC caused the Owls to begin the spiral downward vs SWAC competition.

Maybe you should have suggested the Owls join the SEC? At least the Owls would get bigger paychecks and be on television a lot more. And the occasional win vs SEC competition would be a lot more satisfying than occassionally beating directional state U.

Yeah, I know. That ship sailed decades ago.
03-21-2021 06:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Texasowl Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,208
Joined: Apr 2020
Reputation: 12
I Root For: Rice University
Location:
Post: #9
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
Maybe we should try to move into a better conference based on the success of the women programs and slowly let men sports incorporate into the conference over a five yr period. The university would have to demonstrate their willingness to try this. It probably means firing the President and the AD with an out of the box vision.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2021 09:42 PM by Texasowl.)
03-21-2021 09:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Online
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,280
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #10
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-21-2021 09:40 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  Maybe we should try to move into a better conference based on the success of the women programs and slowly let men sports incorporate into the conference over a five yr period. The university would have to demonstrate their willingness to try this. It probably means firing the President and the AD with an out of the box vision.

I suggested this years ago... specifically to the AD.

I suggested that we look at sports and conferences where schools like LSU or UT sponsor less popular sports like crew, sailing, rifle or other olympic sports where they create 'secondary' conference affiliations (like DBU did or does with baseball). I believe I looked at UT in sailing and A&M in equestrian events and others... which at LEAST puts us at the table with the ADs of those schools, where we could begin conversations and potentially create other affiliations.

Women and Olympic sports are a place where we have an INCREDIBLE advantage in g5... because we offer something NO other g5 school can offer... and that is an INCREDIBLE academic opportunity in exchange for their sporting labors. They have to work just as hard or harder at sports at ANY school they attend... so why would you walk away with a ULaLa degree rather than a Rice degree at the end? We should DOMINATE g5 in women's and Olympic sports... and leverage that success into a better conference (and the money and notoriety that goes with that).
03-22-2021 09:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,601
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 50
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #11
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 09:34 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 09:40 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  Maybe we should try to move into a better conference based on the success of the women programs and slowly let men sports incorporate into the conference over a five yr period. The university would have to demonstrate their willingness to try this. It probably means firing the President and the AD with an out of the box vision.

I suggested this years ago... specifically to the AD.

I suggested that we look at sports and conferences where schools like LSU or UT sponsor less popular sports like crew, sailing, rifle or other olympic sports where they create 'secondary' conference affiliations (like DBU did or does with baseball). I believe I looked at UT in sailing and A&M in equestrian events and others... which at LEAST puts us at the table with the ADs of those schools, where we could begin conversations and potentially create other affiliations.

Women and Olympic sports are a place where we have an INCREDIBLE advantage in g5... because we offer something NO other g5 school can offer... and that is an INCREDIBLE academic opportunity in exchange for their sporting labors. They have to work just as hard or harder at sports at ANY school they attend... so why would you walk away with a ULaLa degree rather than a Rice degree at the end? We should DOMINATE g5 in women's and Olympic sports... and leverage that success into a better conference (and the money and notoriety that goes with that).

Recruiting issues are exactly the same in women's sports as they are in men's. Conference affiliation and the opportunity to practice with, and play against, the best is a HUGE factor.

To get the 4* or 5* women athletes, you must be one of the elite programs (P5 or Northern Arizona for cross country, UConn for basketball).

Rice has a shot at getting an occasional 3*, but it's mostly 2* and below. Is this enough to "dominate" G5? Perhaps, but the only metric that really counts is NCAA championship competition, and there's little chance of being able to do anything at that level.
03-22-2021 09:46 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Hambone10 Online
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,280
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #12
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 09:46 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Recruiting issues are exactly the same in women's sports as they are in men's. Conference affiliation and the opportunity to practice with, and play against, the best is a HUGE factor.

To get the 4* or 5* women athletes, you must be one of the elite programs (P5 or Northern Arizona for cross country, UConn for basketball).

Rice has a shot at getting an occasional 3*, but it's mostly 2* and below. Is this enough to "dominate" G5? Perhaps, but the only metric that really counts is NCAA championship competition, and there's little chance of being able to do anything at that level.

While I don't disagree with anything you're saying, this is a bit like Steve Martin's how to get $1mm and pay no taxes... first, get $1mm.

Said simply for clarity... If g5 has 25% of the NCAA championship qualifiers and Rice has 25% of those (because we dominate g5 based on the 'opportunity') then Rice will likely have as many qualifiers as any other school in the nation... and suddenly 4+ star kids are considering Rice rather than a 'secondary' school in a P5 conference.... and the key invitationals who want to showcase the best talent are inviting P5 schools, AND Rice. Rice is getting mention in the Olympics as well. If we want to target international students, fine. That too can be done through sports. I suspect the biggest reason we don't do that is that we target international students to pay full tuition, not to give them scholarships... but if that scholarship makes full-freight students feel more 'at home', then its worth it.

Let me say it even differently....

I suspect Grace Forbes has competed in more meets with P5 athletes in one year than Rice football has in a decade... so the opportunity to create that competition clearly exists. What you say is true, but you STILL have to create a strategy and build around what you CAN do.... and we DO have a CLEAR advantage in g5. The next best school in CUSA is AUB at +/- 150. Wayne Graham taught us that.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2021 10:12 AM by Hambone10.)
03-22-2021 10:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,601
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 50
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #13
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 10:01 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If we want to target international students, fine. That too can be done through sports. I suspect the biggest reason we don't do that is that we target international students to pay full tuition, not to give them scholarships...

Women's tennis has 8 players. Zero Americans.

Women's Track and Field has 8 international out of 45.

Women's soccer has 8 international out of 29.

Women's swimming has 7 international out of 31.

Women's volleyball - 0 international out of 15.

Women's basketball - 0 international out of 11.
03-22-2021 10:25 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 80,655
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 3192
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #14
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 10:01 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 09:46 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Recruiting issues are exactly the same in women's sports as they are in men's. Conference affiliation and the opportunity to practice with, and play against, the best is a HUGE factor.

If anything, I'd say bigger, because if anything the name recognition and resource differentials can be even greater.

Quote:I suspect Grace Forbes has competed in more meets with P5 athletes in one year than Rice football has in a decade... so the opportunity to create that competition clearly exists. What you say is true, but you STILL have to create a strategy and build around what you CAN do.... and we DO have a CLEAR advantage in g5. The next best school in CUSA is AUB at +/- 150. Wayne Graham taught us that.

Exactly, and that's what we have for some reason been loath to do. Our coaches sit around and complain that, "I can't recruit the same people as La Tech," or whomever, without considering that La Tech can't recruit the same people as we can. The kid who is a star QB or RHP who also is a 4.0 student with 1500+ total on the two SATs (and they do exist) sure as heck is not going to La Tech, unless about 3 generations of his family did. Maybe not as many of them as the other extreme in Texas, but if we go national there are enough of them to build a quality program.

Another thing, because of our prior relationships we can get games with people like TexasU, aTm, and LSU, more easily than out CUSA brethren. So take the games, pocket the cash, and use the exposure to recruit.

We can do this, we just have to get over the defeatist attitude and do it. If the women can do it, so can the men. But we need some different--vastly different--direction. The "Rice way" needs to go to the rubbish bin.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2021 10:43 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-22-2021 10:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Online
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,280
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #15
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 10:25 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 10:01 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If we want to target international students, fine. That too can be done through sports. I suspect the biggest reason we don't do that is that we target international students to pay full tuition, not to give them scholarships...

Women's tennis has 8 players. Zero Americans.

Women's Track and Field has 8 international out of 45.

Women's soccer has 8 international out of 29.

Women's swimming has 7 international out of 31.

Women's volleyball - 0 international out of 15.

Women's basketball - 0 international out of 11.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing? Add in the 140 or so football, baseball and Men's basketball athletes.... what is that... about 35 out of almost 300 athletes?

How different is this than say 5 or 10 or 20 years ago? Compare that to the increase in international students for the campus in general. If you would have prefered that I had said 'don't do MORE of it' rather than 'don't do it', I would have agreed.

Of course you wouldn't have many international students playing football since that's almost exclusively an American thing... but men's basketball is huge internationally and baseball has numerous large pockets of popularity internationally.
03-22-2021 04:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,601
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 50
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #16
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 04:36 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Are you agreeing or disagreeing? Add in the 140 or so football, baseball and Men's basketball athletes.... what is that... about 35 out of almost 300 athletes?

How different is this than say 5 or 10 or 20 years ago? Compare that to the increase in international students for the campus in general. If you would have prefered that I had said 'don't do MORE of it' rather than 'don't do it', I would have agreed.

Of course you wouldn't have many international students playing football since that's almost exclusively an American thing... but men's basketball is huge internationally and baseball has numerous large pockets of popularity internationally.

Neither agreeing nor disagreeing - just listing the numbers.

Volleyball and soccer can do fine with mostly American rosters. Basketball might need to go foreign a little more, based on the recruiting thread.

Both swimming and track and field/cross country would be enormously helped by adding foreign athletes who are 3* or 4* and value education.

Tennis speaks for itself.
03-22-2021 05:54 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


jowls13 Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 35
Joined: Jan 2018
Reputation: 4
I Root For: rice owls
Location:
Post: #17
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
Graduated in 2017 after playing an Olympic sport. Totally believe that in Olympic sports Rice has a huge recruiting advantage over other CUSA schools. There are plenty of quality students who would not consider other CUSA schools that would love to be at Rice due to academics. And we are only school in conference with a true national brand due to academics. For sports with no pro path academics carries a ton of weight. Also, you do see this with Rice often out recruiting other conference schools. Given this advantage I don’t know how we are not better in some of these sports.
03-22-2021 09:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RiceFootball2K5 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,471
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 20
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #18
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 09:06 PM)jowls13 Wrote:  Graduated in 2017 after playing an Olympic sport. Totally believe that in Olympic sports Rice has a huge recruiting advantage over other CUSA schools. There are plenty of quality students who would not consider other CUSA schools that would love to be at Rice due to academics. And we are only school in conference with a true national brand due to academics. For sports with no pro path academics carries a ton of weight. Also, you do see this with Rice often out recruiting other conference schools. Given this advantage I don’t know how we are not better in some of these sports.

Those teams, or our other ones, aren't better because our esteemed athletic director doesn't know a g****** thing about winning.
03-22-2021 09:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 80,655
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 3192
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #19
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
They aren't better because the Rice culture is that winning is too hard. So come up with an excuse, and losing is okay.

Wayne Graham is the one coach that refused to buy into that culture. How did that turn out? So we fired him.
03-22-2021 09:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fort Bend Owl Online
Legend
*

Posts: 28,346
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 448
I Root For: An easy win
Location:

The Parliament Awards
Post: #20
RE: Recipe for Rice Athletic Relevance
(03-22-2021 09:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  They aren't better because the Rice culture is that winning is too hard. So come up with an excuse, and losing is okay.

Wayne Graham is the one coach that refused to buy into that culture. How did that turn out? So we fired him.

You keep saying that but you're not giving Tina Langley enough credit.

Wayne Graham -- 1173-528 (.689 win percentage)
Tina Langley -- 124-60 (.674 win percentage)
03-22-2021 09:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.