One of the things I’ve always disliked about the NCAAT is that the round of 64 is usually played over Thursday and Friday. Games start at noon and if you’re team draws an early start time and you’re at school or work you can’t see them play.

I think the key to the first weekend of the tournament, for the media partner at least, is to get as many eye balls on the games as possible and some time slots are destined to get far fewer eye balls. So my proposal is this:

Play the First 4 on Thursday (all in the evening like this year)

Play 8 of the 32 games of the round of 64 on Friday
Play the other 24 games of that round on Saturday

Play 9 of the 16 games of the round of 64 on Sunday
Play the other 3 games of the round of 64 in prime time on Monday

The one perceived hiccup is that some teams (by my count 10) by the luck of the draw, would end up having to play back to back games on Saturday and Sunday. So if guaranteeing a day of rest is a sacred cow you can’t bear to part with, it’s a no go. Plenty of teams play on back to back days in their conference tournaments so I don’t see why this couldn’t be so in the NCAAT.

The Sweet 16 and Regional Final schedule was moved to a Sat-Sun-Mon-Tue schedule. If you shifted the 1st week to that schedule, you'd have the 1st round entirely on the weekend so you wouldn't have to miss any of those games. The problem is the 2nd round games get moved to Monday and Tuesday and you'd either have to put all those games at night and have three or four of them on at the same time or play some of them in the afternoon and you'd have the same issue as you would with the 1st round and I'd think the 2nd round games are more valuable and you'd rather have those on the weekends and sacrifice 1st round games.

And as for back to back days, for most of the power conferences the conference tournaments are warm ups as opposed to the NCAA Tournament which defines your season. I'd hate for teams to play back to back nights and the quality of play to go down when it matters the most.

(03-20-2021 06:36 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  One of the things I’ve always disliked about the NCAAT is that the round of 64 is usually played over Thursday and Friday. Games start at noon and if you’re team draws an early start time and you’re at school or work you can’t see them play.

I think the key to the first weekend of the tournament, for the media partner at least, is to get as many eye balls on the games as possible and some time slots are destined to get far fewer eye balls. So my proposal is this:

Play the First 4 on Thursday (all in the evening like this year)

Play 8 of the 32 games of the round of 64 on Friday
Play the other 24 games of that round on Saturday

Play 9 of the 16 games of the round of 64 on Sunday
Play the other 3 games of the round of 64 in prime time on Monday

The one perceived hiccup is that some teams (by my count 10) by the luck of the draw, would end up having to play back to back games on Saturday and Sunday. So if guaranteeing a day of rest is a sacred cow you can’t bear to part with, it’s a no go. Plenty of teams play on back to back days in their conference tournaments so I don’t see why this couldn’t be so in the NCAAT.

This is an interesting concept. I would probably be OK with it though there are element I would find negative (just as there exist with the current set-up).

I'd prefer the Saturday to Tuesday configuration.

For the first round (32 games) you can get the greatest number of games in front of the biggest audiences with 5 unique TV timeslots each day.

You would have day games for the second round, but with proper bracketing, you can have a game that tops off at 11 PM Eastern between two teams in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones that would still come on at a reasonable time for the majority of fans of the schools involved.

The same principle would actually apply to the third and fourth rounds (Sweet 16 and Elite 8), except the fourth round would require no day games, as all 4 games could tip off at 7:10 PM and 9:40 PM Eastern over two nights. This would also give all of the Sweet 16 games unique broadcast windows for the first time.

The Final Four would continue in the same arrangement - semifinals on Saturday, championship on Monday.

(03-20-2021 08:07 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  I'd prefer the Saturday to Tuesday configuration.

For the first round (32 games) you can get the greatest number of games in front of the biggest audiences with 5 unique TV timeslots each day.

You would have day games for the second round, but with proper bracketing, you can have a game that tops off at 11 PM Eastern between two teams in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones that would still come on at a reasonable time for the majority of fans of the schools involved.

The same principle would actually apply to the third and fourth rounds (Sweet 16 and Elite 8), except the fourth round would require no day games, as all 4 games could tip off at 7:10 PM and 9:40 PM Eastern over two nights. This would also give all of the Sweet 16 games unique broadcast windows for the first time.

The Final Four would continue in the same arrangement - semifinals on Saturday, championship on Monday.

The problem with playing the round of 32 on Monday and Tuesday is you’re trying to fit in 8 games per day on workdays. By the round of 32 you’ve weeded out most of the weaker teams and you’ve got a lot of really good match ups. The networks might be ok burying a 4 vs 13 at a crummy time slot but you don’t want to do that with a 4 vs 5 in the 2nd round. I suppose each night, CBS could take on a quadruple header while TNT and TBS aired 2 games apiece.

(03-20-2021 08:36 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-20-2021 08:07 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  I'd prefer the Saturday to Tuesday configuration.

For the first round (32 games) you can get the greatest number of games in front of the biggest audiences with 5 unique TV timeslots each day.

You would have day games for the second round, but with proper bracketing, you can have a game that tops off at 11 PM Eastern between two teams in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones that would still come on at a reasonable time for the majority of fans of the schools involved.

The same principle would actually apply to the third and fourth rounds (Sweet 16 and Elite 8), except the fourth round would require no day games, as all 4 games could tip off at 7:10 PM and 9:40 PM Eastern over two nights. This would also give all of the Sweet 16 games unique broadcast windows for the first time.

The Final Four would continue in the same arrangement - semifinals on Saturday, championship on Monday.

The problem with playing the round of 32 on Monday and Tuesday is you’re trying to fit in 8 games per day on workdays. By the round of 32 you’ve weeded out most of the weaker teams and you’ve got a lot of really good match ups. The networks might be ok burying a 4 vs 13 at a crummy time slot but you don’t want to do that with a 4 vs 5 in the 2nd round. I suppose each night, CBS could take on a quadruple header while TNT and TBS aired 2 games apiece.

Exactly. So I favor keeping the Thur-Sun configuration for the first week and having the 1st round stuck on Thur/Fri afternoons as the lesser of the two evils.

I wouldn't be against the 2nd week moving to Sat-Tue permanently although I'm not sure I like having regional finals on Monday and Tuesday, especially the second ones ending close to midnight on the East Coast on weeknights. These are games that determine who goes to the Final Four. This year will likely be a trial to see how it goes. I'm hoping my Illini will have the issue of playing in a regional final on a Monday or a Tuesday night but I hope they get an early final. I hated having to stay up late for Villanova's game yesterday and that was a Friday night. My 47 year old body can barely make it to midnight without a nap or two during the day, 11pm these days is pushing it.

Actually for the round of 32, if you use four networks:

CBS - 7:10 PM, 9:40 PM
TBS - 7:25 PM, 9:55 PM
TruTV - 7:40 PM, 10:10 PM
TNT - 7:55 PM, 10:25 PM

(03-20-2021 09:12 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Actually for the round of 32, if you use four networks:

CBS - 7:10 PM, 9:40 PM
TBS - 7:25 PM, 9:55 PM
TruTV - 7:40 PM, 10:10 PM
TNT - 7:55 PM, 10:25 PM

No way would I accept all those late games. You'd have a 50-50 chance at playing a game ending close to if not after midnight (remember 9:40pm is an estimated time, good luck tipping off at that time). Maybe start the first window at 6:10pm or 6:40pm and go from there.

This is probably a different subject, but I have thought about how the NCAA would schedule it if each round was expanded to a best 2 out of 3 series.

I am guessing the Play-in games would still be 1 game only on Tues and Wed.

Then first round series would be Thurs, Fri, Sat or Fri, sat, Sun

2nd round series would be Sun, Mon, Tues or Monday, Tues, Wed

Sweet 16 would be Thurs, Fri, Sat or Fri, Sat, Sun

Elite 8 would be Sun, Mon, Tues or Monday, Tues, Wed

Final 4 would be Sat, sun, Mon

National championship would be Tues, Wed, Thur

The whole thing sounds exhausting but the assumption is that many series would be only 2 games instead of 3 games

Well baseball does double elimination and/or best 2 of 3 in rounds so it's not unprecedented. I'd think for basketball it would be much more strenuous a sport and not realistic. Maybe for the championship a 2 of 3 could work.

The key thing is we all want to see more games. The first weekend is harder. You have to decided which round you really want to see more of, the round of 64 or the round of 32?

After great thought (nearly 2 minutes), I think the NCAA has it right. The opening round of 64 on the weekend is great, but I think the round of 32 is more compelling, as you have the 4 or 5 Cinderellas who survived, plus the top seeds have tougher matches (11 of the 16 games Friday were double digit wins), as those not good enough (8 of 10 single bid conference schools were dispatched) and those not complete enough teams (flawed, usually guard play) or not playing consistently enough have been dispatched. Sure a couple of schools sneak in, got a lucky win against a high seed not motivated or not able to make in game adjustments (cough, Ohio State). But most of the 2nd round games will be more competitive, as the weakest have been mostly weeded out. So despite the fact I miss most of the round one games, the current set up is better.

Moving the round of 16 to Saturday and Sunday could work, at that is four games per day, very watchable, no overlap needed. The round of 8 is four games total. Those could be on Weeknights, even spread over four days, everyone syncing again on the following Saturday for the Semi-finals (Monday-Tuesday winners in one game, Wednesday-Thursday winners in the other). Of course two games per night one Monday and Tuesday Nights could work, if at separate sites, and some overlap is OK.

The second week is where I'd make the changes, not the first. I would compress the back half of the tournament, with a gap after the first weekend, 8 days to go from 16 to 1. That is more compact, constant action. Teams also get 6 days to prep for that run.

Sat-Sun round of 16
Mon-Thu round of 8
Sat round of 4
Mon Championship

(03-20-2021 12:08 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The key thing is we all want to see more games. The first weekend is harder. You have to decided which round you really want to see more of, the round of 64 or the round of 32?

After great thought (nearly 2 minutes), I think the NCAA has it right. The opening round of 64 on the weekend is great, but I think the round of 32 is more compelling, as you have the 4 or 5 Cinderellas who survived, plus the top seeds have tougher matches (11 of the 16 games Friday were double digit wins), as those not good enough (8 of 10 single bid conference schools were dispatched) and those not complete enough teams (flawed, usually guard play) to compete enough or playing consistently enough have been dispatched. Sure a couple of schools sneak got a lucky win against a high seed not motivated or not able to make in game adjustments (cough, Ohio State). But most of the 2nd round games will be more competitive, as the weakest have been mostly weeded out. So despite the fact I miss most of the round one games, the current set up is better.

Moving the round of 16 to Saturday and Sunday could work, at that is four games per day, very watchable, no overlap needed. The round of 8 is four games total. Those could be on Weeknights, even spread over four days, everyone syncing again on the following Saturday for the Semi-finals (Monday-Tuesday winners in one game, Wednesday-Thursday winners in the other). Of course two games per night one Monday and Tuesday Nights could work, if at separate sites, and some overlap is OK.

The second week is where I'd make the changes, not the first. I would compress the back half of the tournament, with a gap after the first weekend, 8 days to go from 16 to 1. That is more compact, constant action. Teams also get 6 days to prep for that run.

Sat-Sun round of 16
Mon-Thu round of 8
Sat round of 4
Mon Championship

yeah I think next weekend when the round of 16 is all in single game slots- that is going to be an absolute game changer for the tourney. After that I don't think we ever go back.

While the regional finals on four different nights would be great for TV purposes, you then have two schools playing in a regional site on I assume Sunday and Thursday. You think they want to stay at a regional site for three whole days in between? Little problem called school. Sunday to Wednesday isn't much better. Saturday to Tuesday would at least have a Sunday in there.

I think next year we see it
1st rd Thu/Fri
2nd rd Sat/Sun
sweet 16 Sat/Sun
elite 8 Mon/Tue
Final 4 Sat
Title Mon

(03-20-2021 10:07 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(03-20-2021 09:12 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Actually for the round of 32, if you use four networks:

CBS - 7:10 PM, 9:40 PM
TBS - 7:25 PM, 9:55 PM
TruTV - 7:40 PM, 10:10 PM
TNT - 7:55 PM, 10:25 PM

No way would I accept all those late games. You'd have a 50-50 chance at playing a game ending close to if not after midnight (remember 9:40pm is an estimated time, good luck tipping off at that time). Maybe start the first window at 6:10pm or 6:40pm and go from there.

I live in the Eastern Time Zone, so I am well aware of late tip off times. You might be able to get one or two of the cable partners on board with starting games earlier, but the ship of games tipping off after 9:30 PM sailed decades ago and isn't coming back. There are three other time zones just in the contiguous US.

Don’t forget an important consideration for a normal non-pandemic year: NCAA Tournament sites want to maximize traveling tourists. That generally points to a why a Thursday through Sunday schedule for the first weekend is optimal. Going to Friday to Monday like this year is a possible substitute setup - you can get travelers to stay overnight from Sunday to Monday. Tuesday and Wednesday are the worst days to have games when you’re trying to maximize tourism dollars, though. Call me old fashioned, but I liked the “normal” NCAA Tournament schedule better. I understand that it works this year because everything is all in one metro area, but that’s not going to be the case in the future.

Wed: 4 First4
Thu: 12 Rof64
Fri: 12 Rof64
Sat: 4 Rof32, 8 Rof64
Sun: 8 Rof32
Mon: 4 Rof32

(03-20-2021 02:24 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Don’t forget an important consideration for a normal non-pandemic year: NCAA Tournament sites want to maximize traveling tourists. That generally points to a why a Thursday through Sunday schedule for the first weekend is optimal. Going to Friday to Monday like this year is a possible substitute setup - you can get travelers to stay overnight from Sunday to Monday. Tuesday and Wednesday are the worst days to have games when you’re trying to maximize tourism dollars, though. Call me old fashioned, but I liked the “normal” NCAA Tournament schedule better. I understand that it works this year because everything is all in one metro area, but that’s not going to be the case in the future.

I understand the reasoning, and the OP's idea isn't great to me, but I have enjoyed First Four Thursday along with Friday/Saturday First Round.

My only suggestion is that all First Four games should be done on one day prior to the start of the 64 team field, be in in Dayton or Dayton and another historic site (Hinkle, The Palestra, wherever). Start those games at 2P

(03-20-2021 05:36 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(03-20-2021 02:24 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Don’t forget an important consideration for a normal non-pandemic year: NCAA Tournament sites want to maximize traveling tourists. That generally points to a why a Thursday through Sunday schedule for the first weekend is optimal. Going to Friday to Monday like this year is a possible substitute setup - you can get travelers to stay overnight from Sunday to Monday. Tuesday and Wednesday are the worst days to have games when you’re trying to maximize tourism dollars, though. Call me old fashioned, but I liked the “normal” NCAA Tournament schedule better. I understand that it works this year because everything is all in one metro area, but that’s not going to be the case in the future.

I understand the reasoning, and the OP's idea isn't great to me, but I have enjoyed First Four Thursday along with Friday/Saturday First Round.

My only suggestion is that all First Four games should be done on one day prior to the start of the 64 team field, be in in Dayton or Dayton and another historic site (Hinkle, The Palestra, wherever). Start those games at 2P

what made it great was havin the 4 of them not 1 after the other but in a more normal tourney situation where got 2 of them near the same time. Made it much more like normal tournament.

(03-20-2021 02:24 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Don’t forget an important consideration for a normal non-pandemic year: NCAA Tournament sites want to maximize traveling tourists. That generally points to a why a Thursday through Sunday schedule for the first weekend is optimal. Going to Friday to Monday like this year is a possible substitute setup - you can get travelers to stay overnight from Sunday to Monday. Tuesday and Wednesday are the worst days to have games when you’re trying to maximize tourism dollars, though. Call me old fashioned, but I liked the “normal” NCAA Tournament schedule better. I understand that it works this year because everything is all in one metro area, but that’s not going to be the case in the future.

I agree on the first weekend. And I was only thinking TV, that the 2nd round is more compelling than the first. But you are very correct about the need to take care of your host cities. Like a Bowl game, you come a day early on Wednesday, and no matter what your school does you stay through the weekend, check out the town and perhaps some of the parks and other natural attractions in the area (I live in the West and most cities out here have awesome mountains, deserts or coastline nearby). And of course I'll be in the gym watching as many games as I can.

But the second weekend is the one that should be tweaked. It's less the holiday of the first weekend, more down to business. TV numbers likely matter more, as the viewership cranks up. Getting all 8 games of the 3rd round individual slots on Saturday and Sunday I think outweighs the host city aspect. Maybe I'm wrong and those four cities pay enormous fees, but I suspect better TV viewership is greater value.