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A very simple first step
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #21
RE: A very simple first step
(03-06-2021 03:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Nothing that anyone proposes about "saving travel costs" for CUSA or SBC schools is worth it unless every school would be replacing a substantial number of its teams' plane flights with bus trips.

There's not going to be anything like this right now, because the SBC is riding pretty high and feeling good about itself - see the poster above who said something to the effect that the SBC has no reason to help CUSA pull its acorns out of the fire.

The only way we will see CUSA and SBC come together to maybe address travel or other geographic issues is when both conferences are feeling like CUSA does now.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2021 08:44 AM by quo vadis.)
03-10-2021 08:44 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #22
RE: A very simple first step
(03-10-2021 08:24 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(03-09-2021 07:44 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-09-2021 07:35 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  How many G5 schools will decide football is too expensive per the UAB model? When will this happen? Will this trigger smaller more regional conferences?

The UAB model? Alabama tried to kill them in a purely political maneuver and it didn't stick. There wasn't anybody at UAB promoting dropping football.

UAB fans can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe their president was in bed with the Alabama board and decided to end football after the team had a decent season. An uproar form UAB fans and the Birmingham community raised hell and money to get football back. They overcame the administration powers so major kudos to them.

If the stunt had been pulled the year before when the season was awful along with attendance, it might have succeeded. Now UAB could be the school added to the AAC down the road. Quite the turnaround.

Ok maybe I made a bad choice calling it the UAB model. But everyone has some huge financial challenges due to the pandemic. Some schools may choose to drop out of FBS. There may be opportunities to restructure conferences when they do.
03-10-2021 09:13 AM
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Post: #23
RE: A very simple first step
The “problem” CUSA had was two-fold.

One was chasing a dead television model. The relevance of markets was going away and with the rapid rise of cord cutting it is no longer how many will tune to channel on their cable lineup and even the great carriage fee drive of how many can you force to pay higher in-state rates for a cable channel.

The model is becoming how many fans do you have that will pay to access your streaming service.

An eyeball model, especially a paying eyeball model is bad for programs that don’t have motivated fans or don’t have bases of alumni who followed football as students.

So there was some chasing of schools who aren’t ideal at least right now for the direction media rights are headed. Sun Belt and CUSA have some problematic members for that model.

The bigger problem that hit CUSA was internal strife. They went into their expansion discussion with UNT considered a lock and FIU might get invited. ECU frustrated with the lack of regional members led the fight for more eastern members then of course they were soon gone. Moves were made to address needs of departing members
03-13-2021 03:46 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: A very simple first step
(03-13-2021 03:46 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The “problem” CUSA had was two-fold.

One was chasing a dead television model. The relevance of markets was going away and with the rapid rise of cord cutting it is no longer how many will tune to channel on their cable lineup and even the great carriage fee drive of how many can you force to pay higher in-state rates for a cable channel.

...................

The bigger problem that hit CUSA was internal strife. They went into their expansion discussion with UNT considered a lock and FIU might get invited. ECU frustrated with the lack of regional members led the fight for more eastern members then of course they were soon gone. Moves were made to address needs of departing members

Eh, I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but would add some caveats:

1) TV deals were always about eyeballs, not markets. Just a look at the SEC, which has huge eyeball-drawing brand names located in small cities, would tell us that, not only now but in 2012 as well.

2) That said, the "market model" that was the fad in the early 2010s didn't fail for everyone. The B1G added Rutgers and Maryland almost entirely for their cable markets, and their revenues have skyrocketed since even above the very high level they were at when they joined. It may be coincidence, but even if we don't credit Maryland Rutgers for those erupting revenues, they certainly haven't been a roadblock to them either.

Also, the AAC was reconstituted along a "market model" at basically the same time that CUSA was doing the same, and the AAC has done about as well revenue-wise as we could expect it do and just signed a deal that tripled its media money.

3) As for new members skewing east to satisfy a departing ECU, let's look at who CUSA added after the AAC raids in 2012-2013:

FAU
UNCC
LA-Tech
MTSU
UNT
Old Dominion
UTSA
WKU

It's such a mess that I probably missed someone, but still, looking at that roster, I see only Old Dominion and UNCC as fitting that description. Arguably MTSU as well. Have they been good additions to the conference? No, not really.

But then again, have the other additions been that much better? Did UNT and LA-Tech and UTSA and WKU move the needle in terms of market value?

I don't think so. The raw reality is that CUSA was a third-order conference raiding fourth-order conferences as backfill. The P5 (order 1) raided the Big East/AAC (order 2) which raided CUSA (order 3) which then plucked schools from the Sun Belt and others (order 4). You're scraping the bottom of the value-barrel there so it was unrealistic to expect media value to do anything but sink or stagnate. Any school that could attract any "eyeballs" worth mentioning wasn't going to be joining a rebuilding CUSA.

There just weren't any good options, IMO. So in fairness to the current CUSA commissioner, I don't think anything short of divine intervention could have gotten them a better media deal. Now, performance on the field, which has also sucked, is another matter. That is the domain of the schools.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2021 07:13 AM by quo vadis.)
03-13-2021 07:09 AM
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HTOWN_HERD Offline
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Post: #25
RE: A very simple first step
I’ll still contend that CUSA needs to drop 2 schools. FIU and USTA would be my pick to drop. We are not just splitting the media payout 14 ways, we are also splitting the CFP payout 14 ways. Drop 2 for a little more revenue and then could also do this to help with travel.

- Let the East and West portions of CUSA operate as separate conferences when it comes to scheduling. You would only be required to play the 5 other teams from your division and no cross over games unless you chose to. For example Marshall could still have the ability to schedule UAB if they want, but it wouldn’t count as a conference game. The best two teams from each division would still meet in the championship the same as now.

- Find a way to simplify our media package. I understand we are never going to get meaningful linear tv time, but our package is way to fractured up for even streaming services. There has to be way to fix that.

- Lastly, everyone needs to step up their game, and I believe that is going to happen. WKU will have maybe the best offense in the conference and maybe nation this year. ODUs new coach has been recruiting at a pretty nice level, and Marshall is hoping we made the right decision with Charles Huff. We have to start winning our non-conference games and beating P5’s and certainly can’t afford to go 0-6 in bowl games like last year anymore.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2021 09:17 AM by HTOWN_HERD.)
03-13-2021 09:15 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #26
RE: A very simple first step
(03-13-2021 03:46 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The “problem” CUSA had was two-fold.

One was chasing a dead television model. The relevance of markets was going away and with the rapid rise of cord cutting it is no longer how many will tune to channel on their cable lineup and even the great carriage fee drive of how many can you force to pay higher in-state rates for a cable channel.

The model is becoming how many fans do you have that will pay to access your streaming service.

An eyeball model, especially a paying eyeball model is bad for programs that don’t have motivated fans or don’t have bases of alumni who followed football as students.

So there was some chasing of schools who aren’t ideal at least right now for the direction media rights are headed. Sun Belt and CUSA have some problematic members for that model.

The bigger problem that hit CUSA was internal strife. They went into their expansion discussion with UNT considered a lock and FIU might get invited. ECU frustrated with the lack of regional members led the fight for more eastern members then of course they were soon gone. Moves were made to address needs of departing members

You’re exactly right—

I imagine when the 8 presidents and commissioner gathered together that it was pretty much a given that UNT and a FL school were going to be added. (Replacing UCF and SMU).

The West schools then put forth UTSA and LA Tech for the last two spots. After all, they did lose 2 Texas schools, so they should add 2 Texas schools, even if one was going to be a start up project. LA Tech was the best quality program and deservedly belonged in the conversation.

That’s where ECU interjected and pushed expansion candidates that were favorable to them: ODU and Charlotte. Frankly, these 2 start ups should have never been in the conversation. If there was any squarely Eastern school that should have been in the discussion at this point it should have been MTSU—a TN school, and one that was relatively successful in the SBC, for a TN school.

The only way to break the stalemate was to take all 6.
03-13-2021 09:15 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #27
RE: A very simple first step
(03-06-2021 10:02 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Trade FAU and FIU for ALR and UTA.

Make that Marshall & USM and you've got a deal. Not a fan of schools in a conference that do not play football.
03-13-2021 07:49 PM
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Post: #28
RE: A very simple first step
(03-09-2021 07:35 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  How many G5 schools will decide football is too expensive per the UAB model? When will this happen? Will this trigger smaller more regional conferences?

About 15-20% of the NP5 probably need to either go IAA or drop football altogether. Anyone that is in a conference isn't going to do that, so they are safe. That is just a fact.

If there is any movement like this it will be with UConn, UMass and New Mexico State. BYU, Liberty, Army and ND aren't going anywhere, they have the money to survive as an independent.

The only school in a conference right now that could be in trouble in the next 10 years I would say is Akron. They owe like 540 million dollars on 9 new buildings, the INF and new stadium, all built since 2000. Also just since 2011 their enrollment has went from 31K to just under 16K. They truly are a financial mess. They actually have more problems than staying IA.
03-16-2021 01:13 AM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: A very simple first step
(03-13-2021 07:49 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 10:02 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Trade FAU and FIU for ALR and UTA.

Make that Marshall & USM and you've got a deal. Not a fan of schools in a conference that do not play football.

Nor are the C-USA schools you propose to dump the non-football schools on.

These two schools are the Sunbelt’s problem to fix.
03-16-2021 07:51 AM
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Post: #30
RE: A very simple first step
(03-16-2021 07:51 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(03-13-2021 07:49 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 10:02 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Trade FAU and FIU for ALR and UTA.

Make that Marshall & USM and you've got a deal. Not a fan of schools in a conference that do not play football.

Nor are the C-USA schools you propose to dump the non-football schools on.

These two schools are the Sunbelt’s problem to fix.

Those two schools aren’t a “problem” for the Sun Belt.
03-16-2021 08:46 AM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #31
RE: A very simple first step
(03-16-2021 08:46 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(03-16-2021 07:51 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(03-13-2021 07:49 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 10:02 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Trade FAU and FIU for ALR and UTA.

Make that Marshall & USM and you've got a deal. Not a fan of schools in a conference that do not play football.

Nor are the C-USA schools you propose to dump the non-football schools on.

These two schools are the Sunbelt’s problem to fix.

Those two schools aren’t a “problem” for the Sun Belt.


They actually save the other schools a good bit of money since they're travel partners with two schools on the edge of the footprint.
03-16-2021 09:03 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #32
RE: A very simple first step
(03-16-2021 09:03 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(03-16-2021 08:46 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(03-16-2021 07:51 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(03-13-2021 07:49 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 10:02 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Trade FAU and FIU for ALR and UTA.

Make that Marshall & USM and you've got a deal. Not a fan of schools in a conference that do not play football.

Nor are the C-USA schools you propose to dump the non-football schools on.

These two schools are the Sunbelt’s problem to fix.

Those two schools aren’t a “problem” for the Sun Belt.


They actually save the other schools a good bit of money since they're travel partners with two schools on the edge of the footprint.

People keep using using that argument to justify UALR and UTA but I can’t see how they are really saving all that money, especially when those 2 are collectively sucking up 1/6th of the conference revenue without spending a dime to contribute to the conference’s cash crop: FBS football

All their presence saves is maybe 1-2 flights a season for Texas St, ULM, ULL, and Ark St in basketball and non-revenue sports.

Just make Texas St and Ark St travel partners and call it a day.
03-16-2021 09:15 AM
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