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Big Ten skirting FOIA
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #1
Big Ten skirting FOIA
This could be really something....
03-05-2021 11:48 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
This part from the linked article lends some comfort:

Quote:“The courts have generally come down on the idea that if it’s a public official communicating public business, then those communications would be subject to the law, subject to disclosure,” said David Cuillier, an associate professor of journalism at the University of Arizona who has testified before Congress regarding the Freedom of Information Act. “And none of these workarounds to hide from the public are going to hold water.”

"Some," in that, for those of us in Pennsylvania who have to prop up "Dear State" with our taxes, Penn State is very hard-nosed about defending their privacy under their Commonwealth (state-related) status. Where your money actually goes once it gets to Penn State? Nunuvyabiznis. Platforms like this make it all the more difficult to extract information from a place that already puts up walls toward public information requests.

As I get older, and while I know Delaware has a similar institution within it, I increasingly like the idea of bolting from PA to DE just so I can stop paying into propping up PSU.
03-05-2021 12:42 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
I have a hard time mustering up any outrage about this.
03-05-2021 12:50 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-05-2021 12:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  I have a hard time mustering up any outrage about this.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the B1G deal is.
03-05-2021 12:59 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
This could be what takes down the Big Ten. Expect a 30-for-30 within 5 years.
03-05-2021 01:00 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-05-2021 12:42 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Where your money actually goes once it gets to Penn State? Nunuvyabiznis.

That's the point here. Taxpayers in these states ought to be able to know what's going on if your university presidents, whether or not you agree with their decisions, decide the school is going to host all football personnel on campus while telling non-athlete students to stay far away so that the football players have a better chance of getting through the season without a covid outbreak. For sure, if you are a student at one of these universities, or the parent of a student, when non-athlete students are paying full-price tuition for sitting in their parents' house taking classes online, you ought to be able to find out what's going down and why.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2021 03:46 PM by Wedge.)
03-05-2021 02:28 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
Take down the Big Ten?

If you win a FOIA lawsuit all you get are the information that was withheld plus maybe attorney's fees. Dollars to donuts some state AG's office tells the school "don't be an idiot, just release the info," that school releases the info, and they get a "don't do that again" stern lecture from a judge.

Worst case scenario it goes to court and the Big Ten pays both sets of lawyers. Ho-hum.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2021 03:41 PM by ccd494.)
03-05-2021 03:40 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-05-2021 12:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 12:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  I have a hard time mustering up any outrage about this.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the B1G deal is.

Eh, it was their business, but they handled it poorly. That's what people will remember. The FOIA issue is extremely ancillary to the PR hit they've taken already.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2021 06:06 PM by JRsec.)
03-05-2021 06:05 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.
03-05-2021 06:27 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?
03-05-2021 10:32 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.
03-06-2021 12:44 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 12:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.

What if you meet with them face to face, and only the private writes anything down?
03-06-2021 07:35 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 07:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 12:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.

What if you meet with them face to face, and only the private writes anything down?

Quite.

In Margin Call, the fictionalization of an investment bank at the start of the Panic of 2008, the head of the mortgage backed securities trading floor gets a call from his chief deputy about a problem late in the evening, and asks him to just email the info, and the deputy says, "I don't THINK that would be a good idea", the head of the trading floor pauses and says "OK, I'm on my way."

In the Big Ten version, they are on their way to Evanston, Illinois.
03-06-2021 08:53 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 07:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 12:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.

What if you meet with them face to face, and only the private writes anything down?

If you meet face to face, or talk on the phone, or use a video chat, no one should write anything down.

But yes, if only NU or WF took notes, that would not apply to FOIA so long as they did not forward those notes to a public school. As soon as Northwestern emails the minutes to Illinois, now that document is FOIA-able.
03-06-2021 09:36 AM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 12:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.

Sure you can, if you are in the right state. 04-cheers

Actual legality doesn't really matter. What matters is the practical ability to get info and if the ptb in NC do not want it to come out, it's not coming out for a long, long time. The judiciary in the State of NC is fully controlled by ACC legal graduates - fully controlled. NW nor Illinois has that control over Springfield.

Even if you can prove a conversation took place, the conversation will turn out to be something privialeged such as "ongoing contract negotiations".
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2021 04:38 PM by Statefan.)
03-06-2021 04:32 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 04:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 12:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.

Sure you can, if you are in the right state. 04-cheers

Actual legality doesn't really matter. What matters is the practical ability to get info and if the ptb in NC do not want it to come out, it's not coming out for a long, long time. The judiciary in the State of NC is fully controlled by ACC legal graduates - fully controlled. NW nor Illinois has that control over Springfield.

Even if you can prove a conversation took place, the conversation will turn out to be something privialeged such as "ongoing contract negotiations".

Except the ACC also includes public schools in New York and Pennsylvania. Is the plan not to cc Syracuse or Pitt on anything?
03-06-2021 05:12 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 05:12 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 04:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 12:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 06:27 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This is what the ACC uses Wake Forest for.

Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.

Sure you can, if you are in the right state. 04-cheers

Actual legality doesn't really matter. What matters is the practical ability to get info and if the ptb in NC do not want it to come out, it's not coming out for a long, long time. The judiciary in the State of NC is fully controlled by ACC legal graduates - fully controlled. NW nor Illinois has that control over Springfield.

Even if you can prove a conversation took place, the conversation will turn out to be something privialeged such as "ongoing contract negotiations".

Except the ACC also includes public schools in New York and Pennsylvania. Is the plan not to cc Syracuse or Pitt on anything?

Ha! In the ACC anything outside of Duke and Wake who are tied at the hip, or should I say HEEL, to UNC is on a need to know basis!
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2021 06:14 PM by JRsec.)
03-06-2021 06:14 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 05:12 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  Except the ACC also includes public schools in New York and Pennsylvania. Is the plan not to cc Syracuse or Pitt on anything?
Clearly, unless they are incompetent, they will only CC something to Syracuse or Pitt if it is innocuous or if they intend to allow the information to be released.

Mind you, competence on these things should not be assumed to be perfect ... those kinds of mistakes are how things get out that they don't want to get out.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2021 07:08 AM by BruceMcF.)
03-07-2021 07:07 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
(03-06-2021 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 05:12 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 04:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(03-06-2021 12:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(03-05-2021 10:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Isn't that what Northwestern is for?

If you work for a public institution, you can't launder your communications through a private entity. Anything you write down is subject to FOIA regardless of the recipient.

If you work for like the State Department of Health, and you email a private citizen with your work email, that email is FOIA-able.

Sure you can, if you are in the right state. 04-cheers

Actual legality doesn't really matter. What matters is the practical ability to get info and if the ptb in NC do not want it to come out, it's not coming out for a long, long time. The judiciary in the State of NC is fully controlled by ACC legal graduates - fully controlled. NW nor Illinois has that control over Springfield.

Even if you can prove a conversation took place, the conversation will turn out to be something privialeged such as "ongoing contract negotiations".

Except the ACC also includes public schools in New York and Pennsylvania. Is the plan not to cc Syracuse or Pitt on anything?

Ha! In the ACC anything outside of Duke and Wake who are tied at the hip, or should I say HEEL, to UNC is on a need to know basis!

TRUE.
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03-08-2021 10:36 AM
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MattBrownEP Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Big Ten skirting FOIA
I wrote about this yesterday. In my humble opinion, this behavior is part of a broad trend of a culture of non-compliance when it comes to FOIA. That hurts folks like you. It hurts journalists. And it even hurts athletic departments.

It shouldn't be okay. We should expect schools to follow the law.

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/heres-wh...hould-care
03-09-2021 08:29 AM
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