Maybe just maybe the players actually opted to play with masks on. I don't know this to be the case, but I've seen plenty of examples where athletes take the virus more seriously than the general public at large.

(03-04-2021 01:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I'd much prefer that we play in a conference that supports all of our sports. I would also prefer to play farther south than north. Any discussion on whether the schools are a peer academically doesn't do much for me. This is sports, not rhetorical studies or the quiz bowl.

Patriot would be a step down in every way.

Stipulating that this is a pandemic year and that we have to wait and see what unfolds on selection Sunday...
Would note that earlier today Andy Katz had, in his bracket:
Drexel as a 16
Colgate as a 14
UNCG as a 14
Winthrop as a 13.

At some point the whole step up and step down as regards the CAA gets to be a bigger stretch. Seems unlikely any of the present members will ever be rewarded with an at large bid. Tribe fans might just as easily turn out for games with Army and Navy, or VMI and Citadel, or even Hampton and Winthrop, as with you pick the CAA opponents. Presumed prestige is the phrase that comes to mind.

(03-11-2021 06:06 PM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  

(03-04-2021 01:00 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I'd much prefer that we play in a conference that supports all of our sports. I would also prefer to play farther south than north. Any discussion on whether the schools are a peer academically doesn't do much for me. This is sports, not rhetorical studies or the quiz bowl.

Patriot would be a step down in every way.

Stipulating that this is a pandemic year and that we have to wait and see what unfolds on selection Sunday...
Would note that earlier today Andy Katz had, in his bracket:
Drexel as a 16
Colgate as a 14
UNCG as a 14
Winthrop as a 13.

At some point the whole step up and step down as regards the CAA gets to be a bigger stretch. Seems unlikely any of the present members will ever be rewarded with an at large bid. Tribe fans might just as easily turn out for games with Army and Navy, or VMI and Citadel, or even Hampton and Winthrop, as with you pick the CAA opponents. Presumed prestige is the phrase that comes to mind.

-This is a down year for the CAA, as we all acknowledged.
-The SOCON is having a couple strong years, compared to its past decade.
-Drexel is our #6 seed (the other three are #2, #1 and #1, respectively) and in any event is not getting a 16 seed--quote me on that.
-Winthrop going 23-1 and getting a 13 seed would not be a sign of the Big South's strength; it would actually be a huge indictment. They would not have even sniffed an at-large with a second loss, even with this year's extra spot.
-I wouldn't say we'll never send an at-large. Drexel in 2012 was a whisper away and UNCW in 2017 would have been well in consideration. Granted it was a decade ago with long-gone teams, but we are the last of that bunch to do it (twice in the same year!). I can confidently say none of those three other conferences has ever sent an at-large in my lifetime.

None of the above is to suggest that the CAA is necessarily the best place for W&M. I will leave that up to the rest of you. But there is no doubt that even after the raid on the conference, it's played a higher quality of basketball compared to any of our other options.

(03-11-2021 06:06 PM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  Stipulating that this is a pandemic year and that we have to wait and see what unfolds on selection Sunday...
Would note that earlier today Andy Katz had, in his bracket:
Drexel as a 16
Colgate as a 14
UNCG as a 14
Winthrop as a 13.

Drexel will be a 15 unless there are a few more upsets and would squeak out a 14. With that said...

Colgate has a NET of 7 (Navy at 94 is 2nd then Army at 118)

UNCG has a NET of 84. SoCon the past few years put together a smart strategy to help their ratings and encourage potential at larges. CAA could learn from them

Winthrop has a NET of 53. 2nd highest NET in Big South is 191 (Gardner Webb)

In the clearest down year for the CAA we have 4 teams between 137 and 161. It was a balanced year without a clear top team, which is unusual

Not disagreeing or arguing where W&M should be, its not my place. However, cherry picking stats thats convenient sends a misguided message to others. CAA at its low point is still competitive with those leagues best. Our top isnt as high but doesnt take long for the rest to catch up. Also with such an abbreviated season, numbers are always going to be skewed with so many games lost, both in conference and out of conference. Basing decisions on this years numbers is awfully harsh. With that said, this conference wont be around for much longer as its constructed

I love that Colgate - barring a loss in the PL finals - is going to finish the regular season with a NET of ~7. Only Army and Navy played OOC games in the Patriot League, and they went a combined 7-2 (both losses to power conference teams, and Navy actually beat Georgetown) so the computers are really struggling.

(03-11-2021 06:58 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  -Drexel is our #6 seed (the other three are #2, #1 and #1, respectively) and in any event is not getting a 16 seed--quote me on that.

Update: Please do not, in any event, quote me on that.

Absolutely brutal and terrible ranking. No way Oral Roberts and Cleveland state and Iona should be ahead of Drexel. Oh well

(03-14-2021 05:36 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Absolutely brutal and terrible ranking. No way Oral Roberts and Cleveland state and Iona should be ahead of Drexel. Oh well

You guys got jobbed on the seed. You know what though? F it! Take em down and be the first 16 seed to win. It’s not shocking CAA gets no respect, commish is a Joke and does very little to promote the conference. Good luck!


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The CAA needs to show something in post season. I can’t recall the last time a current conference team won , and not counting JMUs play-in win back in 2013. Nothing against that but it’s not the point of making a statement. UNCW had the nearest miss I can remember a few years ago against UVA. Other than that, we haven’t faired that well.

(03-14-2021 05:33 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(03-11-2021 06:58 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  -Drexel is our #6 seed (the other three are #2, #1 and #1, respectively) and in any event is not getting a 16 seed--quote me on that.

Update: Please do not, in any event, quote me on that.

I actually thought Katz was off also. We may have "misunderestimated" that Drexel's loss to the Tribe might drop it from a 15 to a 16.

My point earlier was that the honor among thieves pecking order of the lower mid-majors is less important than other considerations for the long term success of Tribe athletics. It remains unclear what was learned when the previous athletic department leadership and Pictor Group turned over every rock regarding the costs to compete in the CAA and what those costs buy.

Of particular interest, for an athletic department that is financially challenged how do coaching salaries and travel costs match up against other options?

Selection Sunday offers some insight into what W&M receives for its costs. The Tribe has the opportunity to compete in a league that might be tougher top to bottom than other options, but isn't good enough to offer signature wins and at large bids. It does, however, provide ample opportunity for bad losses. Going forward for the Tribe at some to be determined point in the future, if the stars align, and the transfer portal works to the advantage of W&M, in two directions, the Tribe might get a 14 seed, or a 15, or a 16. Other potential conference options aren't providing worse outcomes. This year they're better. One question for leadership is at what point do CAA down years turn into a down decade?

CAA membership buys essentially starting every football season with two losses. Only one of those is attributable to CAA membership, but it's still a headwind for a program trying to generate momentum on the community engagement and ticket sales front.

It buys an okay Olympic sports overlay, but a little checking might persuade that there is a better option available.

It doesn't buy significant media revenue or exposure.

Unfortunately, changing the commissioner won't change what is foundational about the CAA as relates to W&M in its present predicament. Someone else named this post. Maybe the CAA isn't a joke. My contention is that as a fan, it's hard to be overly invested in the CAA as a particularly good bargain for Tribe athletics.

(03-14-2021 07:23 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  The CAA needs to show something in post season. I can’t recall the last time a current conference team won , and not counting JMUs play-in win back in 2013. Nothing against that but it’s not the point of making a statement. UNCW had the nearest miss I can remember a few years ago against UVA. Other than that, we haven’t faired that well.

Not "current," but VCU & GMU made the Final 4 as CAA teams no that long ago.

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(03-14-2021 08:18 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 07:23 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  The CAA needs to show something in post season. I can’t recall the last time a current conference team won , and not counting JMUs play-in win back in 2013. Nothing against that but it’s not the point of making a statement. UNCW had the nearest miss I can remember a few years ago against UVA. Other than that, we haven’t faired that well.

Not "current," but VCU & GMU made the Final 4 as CAA teams no that long ago.

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I certainly recall that but I think time has almost eliminated any glow left to the CAA from that with the average fan. Plus they are both in another league now. I wonder how many people would even associate the CAA with those teams or earlier appearances.

It was nice to see James Butler on the Drexel team. I think the announcers spent more time chatting about his Dad and Navy though than anything related to today’s CAA.

We need a win or at least a scare to get some needed press back. The bright side of the 16 seed is it really isn’t that competitively different than being a 14 or 15 - though if you even threaten a 1 seed, you get much more coverage. A few I can remember were Princeton vs Georgetown, Michigan vs Farleigh Dickinson and more recent, Duke vs Lehigh. Then the big one, UMBC over Virginia.

(03-14-2021 07:23 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  The CAA needs to show something in post season. I can’t recall the last time a current conference team won , and not counting JMUs play-in win back in 2013. Nothing against that but it’s not the point of making a statement. UNCW had the nearest miss I can remember a few years ago against UVA. Other than that, we haven’t faired that well.

Uncw also was neck n neck with Duke for about 85% of the game as well.


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(03-14-2021 08:37 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 08:18 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 07:23 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  The CAA needs to show something in post season. I can’t recall the last time a current conference team won , and not counting JMUs play-in win back in 2013. Nothing against that but it’s not the point of making a statement. UNCW had the nearest miss I can remember a few years ago against UVA. Other than that, we haven’t faired that well.

Not "current," but VCU & GMU made the Final 4 as CAA teams no that long ago.

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I certainly recall that but I think time has almost eliminated any glow left to the CAA from that with the average fan. Plus they are both in another league now. I wonder how many people would even associate the CAA with those teams or earlier appearances.

It was nice to see James Butler on the Drexel team. I think the announcers spent more time chatting about his Dad and Navy though than anything related to today’s CAA.

We need a win or at least a scare to get some needed press back. The bright side of the 16 seed is it really isn’t that competitively different than being a 14 or 15 - though if you even threaten a 1 seed, you get much more coverage. A few I can remember were Princeton vs Georgetown, Michigan vs Farleigh Dickinson and more recent, Duke vs Lehigh. Then the big one, UMBC over Virginia.

I am not ready to discount two Final Fours in the past 15 years. How many other mid-majors had even one appearance? Butler lost in the title game in back to back years, MVC had Wichia State and Loyola, Gonzaga went once...and I think that's it.

Since then:

-VCU won as a #12 in 2012 and was a last-minute Indiana comeback away from a Sweet 16.
-Northeastern as a #14 in 2015 was down 2 with 10 seconds left and missed the most wide open roll man for a layup that would've sent the game to overtime.
-UNCW as a #13 in 2016 was down five against Duke with a little under a minute and couldn't hit any of three shots in a single possession.
-As you noted, UNCW as a #12 in 2017 was up 15 on UVA at one point, and were within two with 30 seconds left.
-Charleston as a #13 in 2015 was up 2 on Auburn with a couple minutes left. Grant Riller missed a couple clutch free throws and had a decent look at the tying 3 with six seconds left. Arguably got hit on the elbow.

I grant you, that is four straight years of "almost." But I would still argue the conference has a record of punching above its weight. Certainly more than would earn any disrespect. And disrespect is certainly what I would giving this team a 16 seed despite all the metrics (Kenpom, Sagarin, Torvik, SRS) having Drexel above three of the 15 seeds (and every other 16) by a decent margin. If you don't like any of those, tell me how Oral Roberts had a worse record in a worse conference (and is missing a starter) and got slotted ahead of Drexel.

I think the selection chair made it clear, after announcement of the bracket, that games played hurt us. He harped on games played being over 80% for the season and over 85% in conference. So to me it was obvious the CAA being at 56% well off everyone else really hurt us and why we dropped a seed line to 16. Otherwise its completely indefensible.

Being a 15 vs a 16 is night and day, to be honest. Most had us paired with Houston. Playing Illinois is a complete game changer compared to Houston. Chance are certainly slim, but not impossible. Thankfully that over a 1 has happened once so everyone has some hope it can happen again.

The lowest % of games played this year and the lack of success by the current CAA members add up to drive CAA prestige down. GMU's and VCU's past success adds to the A10's prestige and the lack of success that the CAA has had since they left, diminishes the prestige of the CAA.

(03-15-2021 08:00 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  The lowest % of games played this year and the lack of success by the current CAA members add up to drive CAA prestige down. GMU's and VCU's past success adds to the A10's prestige and the lack of success that the CAA has had since they left, diminishes the prestige of the CAA.

I think this shows the challenge with us wanting to be in the CAA for football vs. basketball. Tale of two conference/sports combinations. If we truly want to be a top hoops team like Huge wanted then we should care a lot more about what happened to Drexel. If we want to continue to be in one of the best football conferences, then maybe not so much.

I am not a fan of our Commissioner and agree with many of the comments on this board. The reality is that Drexel as the #6 seed in the CAA probably was penalized with the #16 seed in the NCAA for the low CAA seeding versus getting the rightful seeding as a #15.

Drexel at 12-7 had a 135 NET compared to the NET for Oral Roberts of 158 who finished 16-10 and was 4th in the Summit League or Cleveland State NET of 160 who finished 19-7 and was 2nd in the Horizon League. The other two 15 seeds of Iona (NET 138) and Grand Canyon (NET 107) are tougher arguments especially Joe Pitino the coach at Iona.

(03-15-2021 08:54 AM)wmmii Wrote:  I am not a fan of our Commissioner and agree with many of the comments on this board. The reality is that Drexel as the #6 seed in the CAA probably was penalized with the #16 seed in the NCAA for the low CAA seeding versus getting the rightful seeding as a #15.

Drexel at 12-7 had a 135 NET compared to the NET for Oral Roberts of 158 who finished 16-10 and was 4th in the Summit League or Cleveland State NET of 160 who finished 19-7 and was 2nd in the Horizon League. The other two 15 seeds of Iona (NET 138) and Grand Canyon (NET 107) are tougher arguments especially Joe Pitino the coach at Iona.

I think you're overestimating the amount of thought that goes into this, especially this year. I would bet that one of the main factors was simply number of games played, and the CAA was very low in that regard.

(03-15-2021 08:17 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  

(03-15-2021 08:00 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  The lowest % of games played this year and the lack of success by the current CAA members add up to drive CAA prestige down. GMU's and VCU's past success adds to the A10's prestige and the lack of success that the CAA has had since they left, diminishes the prestige of the CAA.

I think this shows the challenge with us wanting to be in the CAA for football vs. basketball. Tale of two conference/sports combinations. If we truly want to be a top hoops team like Huge wanted then we should care a lot more about what happened to Drexel. If we want to continue to be in one of the best football conferences, then maybe not so much.

I think that drawing any conclusions from this season is a mistake. Whatever happens this year should be mostly ignored when trying to determine long-term patterns or develop goals.