SMUstang
Banned
Posts: 3,513
Joined: Jan 2004
I Root For: SMU Mustangs
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
[quote='Erictelevision' pid='17302117' dateline='1614810738']
Esayem: you're definitely right about the ACC. They grabbed great hoops and passable football programs. And you're right about ND and their "subwsy alumni".
[/quote
Great Hoops
Louisville
Syracuse
Passable football programs
Boston College
Pittsburg
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2021 05:55 PM by SMUstang.)
|
|
03-03-2021 05:53 PM |
|
YNot
All American
Posts: 4,671
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 298
I Root For: BYU
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 04:18 PM)ChrisLords Wrote: Geographically misplaced teams.
SEC - None
B1G - None
ACC - None - maybe ND but not a full member anyway.
B12 - WVU
Pac12 - Utah and Colorado
AAC - Soon to be Boise State
MWC - Hawaii - a misfit in any conference
CUSA - None
MAC - None
Sunbelt - None
Big East - Creighton
A10 - St. Louis
Doesn't really look so bad. The P5 have barely begun to make bad geographic fits. Even the G5 are reasonably condensed. Only the AAC is really spread out from Texas to Florida to Philly to Cincinnati but they'd take Boise St. San Diego St. and BYU if they could.
I disagree that Utah and Colorado are misplaced in the PAC. They are institutional fits, they're in contiguous states and markets, they have significant overlapping alumni geography with PAC schools and the professional leagues consistently place Colorado and Utah teams with others in PAC 12 territory.
While the distances tend to range far out West, we're comparing to conferences that cover:
- Miami to Boston
- Texas & Missouri to South Carolina & Florida
- Minnesota & Nebraska to New Jersey & Maryland
- and even, Ames to Austin (970 miles)....[Boulder to LA is only 50 miles further]
|
|
03-03-2021 06:16 PM |
|
Erictelevision
All American
Posts: 3,253
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 52
I Root For: Uconn hoops
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
YNot: thank you for the geography facts before I could even ask!
|
|
03-03-2021 06:27 PM |
|
bhutchcraft89
Water Engineer
Posts: 81
Joined: Mar 2018
Reputation: 7
I Root For: Kansas State
Location: KC metro
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
Its Pittsburgh! Pittsburg is in KS.
|
|
03-03-2021 07:29 PM |
|
Sicembear11
Special Teams
Posts: 774
Joined: Jul 2020
Reputation: 146
I Root For: Baylor
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 04:18 PM)ChrisLords Wrote: Geographically misplaced teams.
SEC - None
B1G - None
ACC - None - maybe ND but not a full member anyway.
B12 - WVU
Pac12 - Utah and Colorado
AAC - Soon to be Boise State
MWC - Hawaii - a misfit in any conference
CUSA - None
MAC - None
Sunbelt - None
Big East - Creighton
A10 - St. Louis
Doesn't really look so bad. The P5 have barely begun to make bad geographic fits. Even the G5 are reasonably condensed. Only the AAC is really spread out from Texas to Florida to Philly to Cincinnati but they'd take Boise St. San Diego St. and BYU if they could.
If we are going by geography only, then Nebraska, Missouri; and Arkansas should all be in the Big 12.
|
|
03-03-2021 07:39 PM |
|
Wahoowa84
All American
Posts: 3,418
Joined: Oct 2017
Reputation: 486
I Root For: UVa
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
In terms of outliers in their P5 conferences....
WVU and Colorado are geographic stretches. Of course Colorado would still be isolated in the B12 or BIG.
Louisville and Nebraska are both academic outliers. The BIG has all these research institutions and the Cornhuskers are not.
|
|
03-03-2021 07:44 PM |
|
goofus
All American
Posts: 4,285
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 148
I Root For: Iowa
Location: chicago suburbs
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
I propose a 4-way trade
WV --> ACC
Lou --> SEC
Mizzou --> Big Ten
Neb --> Big 12
|
|
03-03-2021 08:06 PM |
|
Nerdlinger
Realignment Enthusiast
Posts: 4,908
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 423
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: Schmlocation
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 08:06 PM)goofus Wrote: I propose a 4-way trade
WV --> ACC
Lou --> SEC
Mizzou --> Big Ten
Neb --> Big 12
My assessments:
WV --> ACC (for Lou = wash)
Lou --> SEC (for Mizzou = gain in BB at least)
Mizzou --> Big Ten (for Neb = slight gain)
Neb --> Big 12 (for WV = loss, although tighter footprint)
None are enough to really move any needles.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2021 08:46 PM by Nerdlinger.)
|
|
03-03-2021 08:26 PM |
|
Erictelevision
All American
Posts: 3,253
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 52
I Root For: Uconn hoops
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
I don't care about needles (I'm afraid of them actually), but his trades make perfect sense to me.
|
|
03-03-2021 08:40 PM |
|
Fighting Muskie
Senior Chief Realignmentologist
Posts: 11,795
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 789
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location: Biden Cesspool
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 05:30 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: Muskie: I TOTALLY agree with your analysis. Would Nebraska seem like less of an outlier if their football program was as dominant as it was in the late 20th c.?
If they were winning more I think the complaints by some would cease.
A lot of folks blame the conference change on the decline of the Husker program but I think it has more to do with bad coaching decisions and more uniform recruiting rules in place versus how things were done in their hey day.
|
|
03-03-2021 10:15 PM |
|
Fighting Muskie
Senior Chief Realignmentologist
Posts: 11,795
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 789
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location: Biden Cesspool
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 05:25 PM)esayem Wrote: (03-03-2021 05:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I guess a lot depends on what we consider an outlier. Are we talking culturally or geographically?
In the PAC 12 I don’t really consider Utah and Colorado as outliers. They are both AAU and Boulder very much has a Left Coast feel and mentality.
In the Big 12 the glaring one is WVU.
In Big 10 country I don’t feel like Nebraska is an outlier. They may have had historical ties to the Big 8 but to me they very much feel like the rest of the Big 10 West. Penn St fits for me too. Rutgers and Maryland don’t.
In the SEC Missouri is the outlier—they belong with other Midwestern land grants.
The ACC is tougher. It’s really hard to define what makes a school an ACC school. It’s an odd mismatch. The school that sticks out to me though as an odd fit is Louisville. They don’t have the academic profile or the geography of an ACC school—but hey they are as good at basketball and better in football than UConn so here we are.
The ACC basically added new factions to its lineup.
Florida State, Miami, and Louisville all have that renegade 80’s program vibe to them.
BC, Syracuse, and Pitt are the original Big East schools with major football programs.
Virginia Tech is our long lost cousin from the old SoCon days.
Georgia Tech is a hell of an engineer and fits in well; another lost SoCon relative.
Notre Dame is sort of an odd fit until you take into account their strong east coast presence.
Right. The folks running the ACC realized that they had to expand past the original footprint and bring in schools that don’t fit the original mold.
Had they not conceded and admitted Florida St and then Miami, VT, and BC a decade and a half later, they might have been picked apart.
If The conference landscape is Europe in the early 1900s, the ACC is Austria-Hungary—a conglomeration of various factions held together by the idea that they are stronger together than on their own.
|
|
03-03-2021 10:21 PM |
|
Erictelevision
All American
Posts: 3,253
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 52
I Root For: Uconn hoops
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
Muskie: which conference is late 20th c USSR or Yugoslavia?
|
|
03-03-2021 10:45 PM |
|
CarlSmithCenter
Special Teams
Posts: 931
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 86
I Root For: Ball So Hard U
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 10:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: (03-03-2021 05:25 PM)esayem Wrote: (03-03-2021 05:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I guess a lot depends on what we consider an outlier. Are we talking culturally or geographically?
In the PAC 12 I don’t really consider Utah and Colorado as outliers. They are both AAU and Boulder very much has a Left Coast feel and mentality.
In the Big 12 the glaring one is WVU.
In Big 10 country I don’t feel like Nebraska is an outlier. They may have had historical ties to the Big 8 but to me they very much feel like the rest of the Big 10 West. Penn St fits for me too. Rutgers and Maryland don’t.
In the SEC Missouri is the outlier—they belong with other Midwestern land grants.
The ACC is tougher. It’s really hard to define what makes a school an ACC school. It’s an odd mismatch. The school that sticks out to me though as an odd fit is Louisville. They don’t have the academic profile or the geography of an ACC school—but hey they are as good at basketball and better in football than UConn so here we are.
The ACC basically added new factions to its lineup.
Florida State, Miami, and Louisville all have that renegade 80’s program vibe to them.
BC, Syracuse, and Pitt are the original Big East schools with major football programs.
Virginia Tech is our long lost cousin from the old SoCon days.
Georgia Tech is a hell of an engineer and fits in well; another lost SoCon relative.
Notre Dame is sort of an odd fit until you take into account their strong east coast presence.
Right. The folks running the ACC realized that they had to expand past the original footprint and bring in schools that don’t fit the original mold.
Had they not conceded and admitted Florida St and then Miami, VT, and BC a decade and a half later, they might have been picked apart.
If The conference landscape is Europe in the early 1900s, the ACC is Austria-Hungary—a conglomeration of various factions held together by the idea that they are stronger together than on their own.
Big XII is France, no defense and weak in the trenches.
|
|
03-03-2021 11:34 PM |
|
TerryD
Hall of Famer
Posts: 14,881
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation: 898
I Root For: Notre Dame
Location: Grayson Highlands
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 05:25 PM)esayem Wrote: (03-03-2021 05:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I guess a lot depends on what we consider an outlier. Are we talking culturally or geographically?
In the PAC 12 I don’t really consider Utah and Colorado as outliers. They are both AAU and Boulder very much has a Left Coast feel and mentality.
In the Big 12 the glaring one is WVU.
In Big 10 country I don’t feel like Nebraska is an outlier. They may have had historical ties to the Big 8 but to me they very much feel like the rest of the Big 10 West. Penn St fits for me too. Rutgers and Maryland don’t.
In the SEC Missouri is the outlier—they belong with other Midwestern land grants.
The ACC is tougher. It’s really hard to define what makes a school an ACC school. It’s an odd mismatch. The school that sticks out to me though as an odd fit is Louisville. They don’t have the academic profile or the geography of an ACC school—but hey they are as good at basketball and better in football than UConn so here we are.
The ACC basically added new factions to its lineup.
Florida State, Miami, and Louisville all have that renegade 80’s program vibe to them.
BC, Syracuse, and Pitt are the original Big East schools with major football programs.
Virginia Tech is our long lost cousin from the old SoCon days.
Georgia Tech is a hell of an engineer and fits in well; another lost SoCon relative.
Notre Dame is sort of an odd fit until you take into account their strong east coast presence.
Two other things make the ACC a great fit for ND:
1) The ACC doesn't require ND football, and
2) There are a number of smaller, private schools (like ND) in the ACC.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2021 01:12 AM by TerryD.)
|
|
03-04-2021 01:11 AM |
|
Realignment
Special Teams
Posts: 812
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 29
I Root For: USC Trojans
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
I actually like where the Pac-12 is membership wise. But it doesn't correlate with TV deals.
|
|
03-04-2021 02:40 AM |
|
Fighting Muskie
Senior Chief Realignmentologist
Posts: 11,795
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 789
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location: Biden Cesspool
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-03-2021 10:45 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: Muskie: which conference is late 20th c USSR or Yugoslavia?
Yugoslavia is easy—C-USA: an odd assortment of teams/people who don’t actually like each other stuck together in a weak confederacy
The USSR is harder. Probably the SEC. Big, powerful, and capable of gobbling up, other programs at a whim.
wait—you said late 20th century. In that case the USSR is the PAC 12. They’re both in total economic shambles due to poor leadership and are rapidly declining but the delusional folks in charge are still living lavishly of the backs of other peoples’ labor reminiscing about the glory days when they were at their height.
|
|
03-04-2021 07:06 AM |
|
Todor
Heisman
Posts: 8,656
Joined: Jan 2019
Reputation: 914
I Root For: New Mexico State
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-04-2021 07:06 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: (03-03-2021 10:45 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: Muskie: which conference is late 20th c USSR or Yugoslavia?
Yugoslavia is easy—C-USA: an odd assortment of teams/people who don’t actually like each other stuck together in a weak confederacy
The USSR is harder. Probably the SEC. Big, powerful, and capable of gobbling up, other programs at a whim.
wait—you said late 20th century. In that case the USSR is the PAC 12. They’re both in total economic shambles due to poor leadership and are rapidly declining but the delusional folks in charge are still living lavishly of the backs of other peoples’ labor reminiscing about the glory days when they were at their height.
Are there any conferences that are in a debt they can never get out of, held captive by corporate and military interests that work to drive society to hate one another and has 2 factions of one political party that never leaves power?
Not sure there is a Doomed Conference lol.
|
|
03-04-2021 09:45 AM |
|
esayem
Hark The Sound!
Posts: 16,264
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 1205
I Root For: Olde Ironclad
Location: Tobacco Road
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
Wouldn’t the Big Ten be the USSR? I mean they have the same politics.
|
|
03-04-2021 09:47 AM |
|
esayem
Hark The Sound!
Posts: 16,264
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 1205
I Root For: Olde Ironclad
Location: Tobacco Road
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-04-2021 09:45 AM)Todor Wrote: (03-04-2021 07:06 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: (03-03-2021 10:45 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: Muskie: which conference is late 20th c USSR or Yugoslavia?
Yugoslavia is easy—C-USA: an odd assortment of teams/people who don’t actually like each other stuck together in a weak confederacy
The USSR is harder. Probably the SEC. Big, powerful, and capable of gobbling up, other programs at a whim.
wait—you said late 20th century. In that case the USSR is the PAC 12. They’re both in total economic shambles due to poor leadership and are rapidly declining but the delusional folks in charge are still living lavishly of the backs of other peoples’ labor reminiscing about the glory days when they were at their height.
Are there any conferences that are in a debt they can never get out of, held captive by corporate and military interests that work to drive society to hate one another and has 2 factions of one political party that never leaves power?
Not sure there is a Doomed Conference lol.
90’s WAC. We all saw what happened there.
|
|
03-04-2021 09:49 AM |
|
Todor
Heisman
Posts: 8,656
Joined: Jan 2019
Reputation: 914
I Root For: New Mexico State
Location:
|
RE: Misplaced Teams
(03-04-2021 09:49 AM)esayem Wrote: (03-04-2021 09:45 AM)Todor Wrote: (03-04-2021 07:06 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: (03-03-2021 10:45 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: Muskie: which conference is late 20th c USSR or Yugoslavia?
Yugoslavia is easy—C-USA: an odd assortment of teams/people who don’t actually like each other stuck together in a weak confederacy
The USSR is harder. Probably the SEC. Big, powerful, and capable of gobbling up, other programs at a whim.
wait—you said late 20th century. In that case the USSR is the PAC 12. They’re both in total economic shambles due to poor leadership and are rapidly declining but the delusional folks in charge are still living lavishly of the backs of other peoples’ labor reminiscing about the glory days when they were at their height.
Are there any conferences that are in a debt they can never get out of, held captive by corporate and military interests that work to drive society to hate one another and has 2 factions of one political party that never leaves power?
Not sure there is a Doomed Conference lol.
90’s WAC. We all saw what happened there.
Well, the 90's WAC might have been doomed, it has reloaded surprisingly well as a 2013 forward conference!
|
|
03-04-2021 11:17 AM |
|