TUfan Wrote:Graybeard-- you need to leave the country and learn to think for yourself. You sound like a broken record-- reciting exactly what the righ-wing freaks on the radio tell you to spout.

let's see... a lie about a blow job vs. a lie about why we are really going to war, the amount of money it will take, and the strange idea of having a plan when entering into a war that is in obvious need of leadership. I'll take the blow job anyday. At least he did things for this country besides run up a HUGE debt.

:bang: So, where was any of my post incorrect? It wasn't.

So, why did we really go to war? You seem to know!

I'm still not sure that old slick willy did a whole lot for this country. Let see, he raised taxes, allowed Al Queda to do whatever they wanted, allowed companies to go corrupt on his watch, allowed the economy to grow due to false/misleading information that could only lead to a huge crash, turned down Osama on a silver platter, and I'm sure there are many more things.

Oh well...thats all for now.

For more political speak, try the Spin Room!

:ecu:

I don't need the spin room. I have you to antagonize on the board I lead. Besides, I usually limit my politics talk to the Tulsa Rivals board where people can have civil discussions based on actual policy. However that would require one to turn off Rush and think.

GrayBeard Wrote:


:ecu:

This was how I started this thread. I wasn't trying to antagonize any political talk. That was started by yourself.

Have I been less than civil in this discussion? :ecu:

You've been fine, but I've been to the spinroom. It lacks substance. My reply to your picture was meant as a joke. Things just went from there. So be it...

P.S. I'd rather be a ******* than a fat slob of an elephant.

TUfan Wrote:You've been fine, but I've been to the spinroom. It lacks substance. My reply to your picture was meant as a joke. Things just went from there. So be it...

P.S. I'd rather be a ******* than a fat slob of an elephant.

TUfan I love you for the mere fact that you are a fellow alum; however, you and I could not be further apart on this issue. You had mentioned that we need to leave the country in order to think for ourselves. I've never left the country for financial reasons; however, I am neither a follower, nor a believer in everything I read or see whether it be in this country or another. I am a judge of character. Only a persons character defines who you are and what impact you will make in this world. From historical facts I know that the country you are about to visit/live (I believe France) has only the character of a weakling. They stand for nothing and they fall for just about anything. I ask that you question their motives before you fall into their trap. If you read, find this topic; what advantages did France gain by supporting the Saddam regime?

Cane Gang to correct your "nations" list. Italy and Japan fully supported our actions. The Japanese has deployed peacekeeping troops for the first time since WWII to support our efforts in Iraq. Australia also has a small contigency of troops and they also, most importantly, fought along side us in the war. Canada was led by a socialist as are most of the allies that didn't support the war. Thanks but no thanks. They may have different names, but a socialist is a socialist is a socialist.

On the topic of character, I only need to know one thing about G.W., he is a Christian man who prays daily. Your right he has made mistakes and he will make more, as would we all in his position. The most important character trait, first, is his faith in a Power that is higher than us all and second, G.W. says what he means and means what he says. He may make mistakes but he seeks God's council, the creator of heaven and earth, and He's the one and only guy I want on my side.

Tulsa97 Wrote:On the topic of character, I only need to know one thing about G.W., he is a Christian man who prays daily. Your right he has made mistakes and he will make more, as would we all in his position. The most important character trait first is his faith in a Power that is higher than us all and G.W. says what he means and means what he says. He may make mistakes but he seeks God council, the creator of heaven and earth, and he's the one and only Guy I want on my side.

No... you really didn't say that, did you?

In other words, a person can be a total incompetent but as long as they are a self-proclaimed Christian, that's just fine in your book?

I feel that a world view is necessary. We are no longer isolated from the world by months long travel. (I have been to far more countries than the one I am about to experience.) I think by traveling and taking the time to learn other cultures and how they see the world, and having the chance to view the US from outside of the "machine" (so to speak) is the best way to learn what our country really stands for and the best way to understand "the little things" that are so easy to overlook when you are surrounded by them daily.

Essentially it provides an opportunity to step back and reflect-- something that is necessary to see just about every part of our lives clearly. You might pray (as I often do) as a method of stepping back and reflecting on your life with Christ. I might step back from an arguement to reflect on how I really feel. In order to do the same in trying to understand this country, I think we need to step back in much the same way. Also, I believe that one must know all sides of a position/arguement. There is no better way to learn how others view us than by traveling and immersing oneself in such a place.

As far as Bush being a Christain...it is not hard to proclaim oneself a Christain. However, I feel that a true christain does not judge, nor need to proclaim before the world to be a good Christain, but rather (s)he allows judgement to be cast by a higher being. I do not belive that Bush does that. Furthermore, with as much as he mis-speaks, I should hope that he does not truely believe all in which he says...or he is a much larger hypocrite than I ever imagined and lacks more character than even Nixon.

Not only do I not want him at my side, but I certainly do not want his narrow views leading us in a time when a thorough understanding of international politics are so crucial.

Cane Gang Wrote:

Tulsa97 Wrote:On the topic of character, I only need to know one thing about G.W., he is a Christian man who prays daily.  Your right he has made mistakes and he will make more, as would we all in his position.  The most important character trait first is his faith in a Power that is higher than us all and G.W. says what he means and means what he says.  He may make mistakes but he seeks God council, the creator of heaven and earth, and he's the one and only Guy I want on my side.

No... you really didn't say that, did you?

In other words, a person can be a total incompetent but as long as they are a self-proclaimed Christian, that's just fine in your book?

Folks turn off CNN. I don't want to have this debate. Bush is not only self-proclaimed, but I believe the people that have had the opportunity to meet the man in person. Ministers (too numerous to mention), our congressman (who I have spoken with on a personal basis), these are the people I believe. I wouldn't worry too much about what is said as much as I would the actions. Yes, I know he is a Christian man by more accounts that I can keep track.

IMO, he truly loves this country and its people. They take priority over our allies any day of the week and twice on Sundays. If there was even a remote possibility of a mad-man with WMD or the entire city of New York, I choose New York. Priorities. I believe his are well placed.

TUF I meant God on my side, not Bush. Bush can't really do that much for me, but God can do everything for me if He so chooses. As far as your view of America through another's eyes, I agree if gives you perspective outside of the machine; however, there is no other place on this earth I would rather be living.

Worldly views are limited and narrow minded. The world has given man nothing but heartache. Why would I want that view and that view alone? And yes we should proclaim that we are Christians to the world. I have been saved from my own self-destruction. I won't hide it and neither will Bush.

You both have your view, but you won't change mine. One day you will see the truth, I hope sooner than later. In the meantime lets hope for good TU football.

See the truth? In God or in Bush? 'Cause seeing it in God is something deeply personal-- something I don't need to shout from the mountain top for it to be true. I think advertising it in such a manner is nothing more than a coverup. To judge others and hope that they "see the truth more sooner than later" is judgemental on your part. You know nothing of my relationship with God other than what I have told you in this short thread. In making assumptions in a feabile attempt to legitimize your view, you do nothing but look like a right-winged fool who cannot think for himself.

Lacking a world view is limited and narrow minded. In no way to Christains, Americans or anyone else operate in a vaccuum, and until they do, to deny that everything everyone does affects someone only holds back this country, its people and the world.

P.S. I won't be seeing any football this season. :(

Geez, more unfactual BS. No reason to even discuss anything with you.

uhmump95 Wrote:Sorry TechDawg, but all you need is the right name, a fat wallet, and a good tutor to graduate from the Ivy league now a days.

As for Clinton, perhaps 9/11 wouldn't have been such a surprise if Republican didn't push that to be a major issue.

Priceless stuff there.

That is a perfect example of someone stating something as a fact when they actually have no basis or background for their statement.

Actually both of those statements are examples of that.

Good tutor and money is all you need to graduate from an Ivy League school? Nice.

Clinton could have prevented 9/11 altogether if he had actually done something other than fire a couple missiles (aka slapping them on the wrist).

TUfan Wrote:See the truth? In God or in Bush?

Lacking a world view is limited and narrow minded.

Last post on this topic. I was referring to seeing the truth in God. "If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Titus 2:11-14, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say 'No' to ungoliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, up-right and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to puify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."

1 John 2:15-17 "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world-the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does-comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever."

The world gave us Hitler (determined to rule over it and to destroy an entire race of people), Stalin, Saddam, Mao Tse Tung, Alexander the Great, Ivan the Terrible, King George the III, Henry the VIII, and on and on and on....people who abused their power to rule over men and exploit them for their own gain.

If lacking a world view removes me from those people, so be it, in fact I welcome it. Sincerely, I hope your world view does not hurt you.

Bon chance et au revoir!

Tulsa97 Wrote:

TUfan Wrote:See the truth? In God or in Bush?

Lacking a world view is limited and narrow minded.

Last post on this topic. I was referring to seeing the truth in God. "If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Titus 2:11-14, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say 'No' to ungoliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, up-right and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to puify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."

1 John 2:15-17 "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world-the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does-comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever."

The world gave us Hitler (determined to rule over it and to destroy an entire race of people), Stalin, Saddam, Mao Tse Tung, Alexander the Great, Ivan the Terrible, King George the III, Henry the VIII, and on and on and on....people who abused their power to rule over men and exploit them for their own gain.

If lacking a world view removes me from those people, so be it, in fact I welcome it. Sincerely, I hope your world view does not hurt you.

Bon chance et au revoir!

God created the world... and I'm supposed to not love it? Seems pretty ungrateful to me.

Hi everyone, I hope we're having a wonderful day. Isn't it wonderful football season is starting in a couple of weeks. I can hardly wait!! Maybe then we can debate grass vs synthetic turf----sounds like fun to me!! :D

jfisher Wrote:Hi everyone, I hope we're having a wonderful day. Isn't it wonderful football season is starting in a couple of weeks. I can hardly wait!! Maybe then we can debate grass vs synthetic turf----sounds like fun to me!! :D

We can start now if you'd like. Start a thread.