(02-11-2021 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 01:55 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 01:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would agree that the ACC has made out better in this marriage but not, as you contend, "much better."

As I previously posted, and as we all know, Notre Dame offers strong baseball and women's hoops — and the ACC is a much better home for those two sports than the Big East. The ACC is also more academically prestigious than the BE (though the BE does, indeed, offer some academic strength). In other words, it is very beneficial for ND to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference. And it made out better by aligning with the ACC than it would have by, hypothetically, opting for the Big East.

Now, if ND could have pulled off the arrangement it has with the ACC with the Big Ten ... home run for ND.

ND really did not want that. It strongly did not want to be "regionalized" by being in the Big Ten.

That was one of their prime motivations at the time. Staying out of the Big Ten. Remember, Jim Delany was after them hard in the 2010-12 time frame.

The Eastern Seaboard of the ACC appealed to them much more than any such deal with the Big Ten.

Very good points. I guess I was thinking about all the Notre Dame fans and grads who live in Big Ten country who might have preferred Irish sports be affiliated with the Big Ten for logistics reasons. You know this stuff and I don't so I'll defer to you, TD.

Notre Dame grads live in Big Ten East country and the Northeast. Other than Chicago & maybe Milwaukee, they don't care much about the Big Ten West.

ND already plays 6 home games a year within driving distance of Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Columbus. No need to play 4 away games in that region, too.

Top 10 states that ND undergrads are from (listed alphabetically):
California
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Texas

https://recruitstudents.nd.edu/data/

One of the fears of ND regarding the Big Ten is that they would stick them in the Big Ten West and therefore "Nebraska" them.

Terry if you were offered the same deal tomorrow as the current ACC deal with the BIG would you take it or stay in the ACC?

The BIG now has MD and Rutgers which provides east coast exposure.

I have read your posts and hatred of the BIG but wouldn't you rather play Northwestern vs Duke or Ohio State vs NC State? and I love to hate Michigan even more so with Harbaugh as the HC so playing them to me is extremely exciting

(02-11-2021 08:37 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 01:55 PM)TerryD Wrote:  ND really did not want that. It strongly did not want to be "regionalized" by being in the Big Ten.

That was one of their prime motivations at the time. Staying out of the Big Ten. Remember, Jim Delany was after them hard in the 2010-12 time frame.

The Eastern Seaboard of the ACC appealed to them much more than any such deal with the Big Ten.

Very good points. I guess I was thinking about all the Notre Dame fans and grads who live in Big Ten country who might have preferred Irish sports be affiliated with the Big Ten for logistics reasons. You know this stuff and I don't so I'll defer to you, TD.

Notre Dame grads live in Big Ten East country and the Northeast. Other than Chicago & maybe Milwaukee, they don't care much about the Big Ten West.

ND already plays 6 home games a year within driving distance of Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Columbus. No need to play 4 away games in that region, too.

Top 10 states that ND undergrads are from (listed alphabetically):
California
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Texas

https://recruitstudents.nd.edu/data/

One of the fears of ND regarding the Big Ten is that they would stick them in the Big Ten West and therefore "Nebraska" them.

Terry if you were offered the same deal tomorrow as the current ACC deal with the BIG would you take it or stay in the ACC?

The BIG now has MD and Rutgers which provides east coast exposure.

I have read your posts and hatred of the BIG but wouldn't you rather play Northwestern vs Duke or Ohio State vs NC State? and I love to hate Michigan even more so with Harbaugh as the HC so playing them to me is extremely exciting

You didn't ask me but the Big 10 is a no go. Ever

(02-11-2021 08:37 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 01:55 PM)TerryD Wrote:  ND really did not want that. It strongly did not want to be "regionalized" by being in the Big Ten.

That was one of their prime motivations at the time. Staying out of the Big Ten. Remember, Jim Delany was after them hard in the 2010-12 time frame.

The Eastern Seaboard of the ACC appealed to them much more than any such deal with the Big Ten.

Very good points. I guess I was thinking about all the Notre Dame fans and grads who live in Big Ten country who might have preferred Irish sports be affiliated with the Big Ten for logistics reasons. You know this stuff and I don't so I'll defer to you, TD.

Notre Dame grads live in Big Ten East country and the Northeast. Other than Chicago & maybe Milwaukee, they don't care much about the Big Ten West.

ND already plays 6 home games a year within driving distance of Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Columbus. No need to play 4 away games in that region, too.

Top 10 states that ND undergrads are from (listed alphabetically):
California
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Texas

https://recruitstudents.nd.edu/data/

One of the fears of ND regarding the Big Ten is that they would stick them in the Big Ten West and therefore "Nebraska" them.

Terry if you were offered the same deal tomorrow as the current ACC deal with the BIG would you take it or stay in the ACC?

The BIG now has MD and Rutgers which provides east coast exposure.

I have read your posts and hatred of the BIG but wouldn't you rather play Northwestern vs Duke or Ohio State vs NC State? and I love to hate Michigan even more so with Harbaugh as the HC so playing them to me is extremely exciting

Nope. I had hoped in 2015 or so that ND would never play another Big Ten team again.

(02-11-2021 08:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 08:37 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Very good points. I guess I was thinking about all the Notre Dame fans and grads who live in Big Ten country who might have preferred Irish sports be affiliated with the Big Ten for logistics reasons. You know this stuff and I don't so I'll defer to you, TD.

Notre Dame grads live in Big Ten East country and the Northeast. Other than Chicago & maybe Milwaukee, they don't care much about the Big Ten West.

ND already plays 6 home games a year within driving distance of Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Columbus. No need to play 4 away games in that region, too.

Top 10 states that ND undergrads are from (listed alphabetically):
California
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Texas

https://recruitstudents.nd.edu/data/

One of the fears of ND regarding the Big Ten is that they would stick them in the Big Ten West and therefore "Nebraska" them.

Terry if you were offered the same deal tomorrow as the current ACC deal with the BIG would you take it or stay in the ACC?

The BIG now has MD and Rutgers which provides east coast exposure.

I have read your posts and hatred of the BIG but wouldn't you rather play Northwestern vs Duke or Ohio State vs NC State? and I love to hate Michigan even more so with Harbaugh as the HC so playing them to me is extremely exciting

Nope. I had hoped in 2015 or so that ND would never play another Big Ten team again.

What if tomorrow ND was able to put olympic sports in Big East and have full independent football. Would you? I would.

Looking at the Gators future schedule, they’re playing road games at Utah, Cal, Colorado, Arizona State, Texas, Notre Dame and North Carolina State. I remember Florida used to get criticized for not playing any OOC road games outside of their state. Now they’re playing four Pac-12 schools which I find interesting.

(02-11-2021 09:17 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 08:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 08:37 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 02:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Notre Dame grads live in Big Ten East country and the Northeast. Other than Chicago & maybe Milwaukee, they don't care much about the Big Ten West.

ND already plays 6 home games a year within driving distance of Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Columbus. No need to play 4 away games in that region, too.

Top 10 states that ND undergrads are from (listed alphabetically):
California
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Texas

https://recruitstudents.nd.edu/data/

One of the fears of ND regarding the Big Ten is that they would stick them in the Big Ten West and therefore "Nebraska" them.

Terry if you were offered the same deal tomorrow as the current ACC deal with the BIG would you take it or stay in the ACC?

The BIG now has MD and Rutgers which provides east coast exposure.

I have read your posts and hatred of the BIG but wouldn't you rather play Northwestern vs Duke or Ohio State vs NC State? and I love to hate Michigan even more so with Harbaugh as the HC so playing them to me is extremely exciting

Nope. I had hoped in 2015 or so that ND would never play another Big Ten team again.

What if tomorrow ND was able to put olympic sports in Big East and have full independent football. Would you? I would.

Like TerryD and domer78, I am very leery of any formal arrangement with the B1G. I would rather have the present arrangement with the ACC than the B1G.

That said, I like ND playing B1G teams better than playing ACC teams. IMO, games vs Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State are inherently more interesting and have histories than games vs NC State, Duke, Virginia, etc. The only ACC teams that are on a par with the B1G teams are BC and Pitt. So I much prefer the pre-ACC deal schedules that would have games vs Purdue, Pitt, BC, Michigan and/or Michigan State on them then the current situation with five ACC teams.

Also, like you, If I had my druthers ND would have a hoops/Olympics arrangement with the current Big East not with the ACC. Not only is that a very adequate home for ND's non-football sports, but the Big East would surely do it while demanding nothing in return, ND would have full football independence. And no, I do not believe ND would have scheduling troubles or minor bowl troubles as a result. There are always other P5 willing to schedule ND, and ESPN would be happy to sign a minor bowl deal with ND, IMO.

(02-12-2021 09:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 09:17 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 08:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 08:37 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  One of the fears of ND regarding the Big Ten is that they would stick them in the Big Ten West and therefore "Nebraska" them.

Terry if you were offered the same deal tomorrow as the current ACC deal with the BIG would you take it or stay in the ACC?

The BIG now has MD and Rutgers which provides east coast exposure.

I have read your posts and hatred of the BIG but wouldn't you rather play Northwestern vs Duke or Ohio State vs NC State? and I love to hate Michigan even more so with Harbaugh as the HC so playing them to me is extremely exciting

Nope. I had hoped in 2015 or so that ND would never play another Big Ten team again.

What if tomorrow ND was able to put olympic sports in Big East and have full independent football. Would you? I would.

Like TerryD and domer78, I am very leery of any formal arrangement with the B1G. I would rather have the present arrangement with the ACC than the B1G.

That said, I like ND playing B1G teams better than playing ACC teams. IMO, games vs Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State are inherently more interesting and have histories than games vs NC State, Duke, Virginia, etc. The only ACC teams that are on a par with the B1G teams are BC and Pitt. So I much prefer the pre-ACC deal schedules that would have games vs Purdue, Pitt, BC, Michigan and/or Michigan State on them then the current situation with five ACC teams.

Also, like you, If I had my druthers ND would have a hoops/Olympics arrangement with the current Big East not with the ACC. Not only is that a very adequate home for ND's non-football sports, but the Big East would surely do it while demanding nothing in return, ND would have full football independence. And no, I do not believe ND would have scheduling troubles or minor bowl troubles as a result. There are always other P5 willing to schedule ND, and ESPN would be happy to sign a minor bowl deal with ND, IMO.

It's the late season scheduling.

Making a deal with the ACC doesn't just allow, but it guarantees that there will be a decent schedule in the latter portion of the season.

Separate from a football conference and you have to fight every league's interest in maintaining their own priorities for late season scheduling.

Sure, they will find teams to play them. They'll get a few P5s and the AAC will come out in spades. But it's a heck of a lot easier to get decent match-ups at a higher rate when you're connected to a P5 league.

(02-10-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-09-2021 08:38 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-09-2021 06:40 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Play three more ACC games and commit to the conference.

Enough already.

How about three less ACC games. I just don't get excited about playing many of the ACC teams. I think knowing ND has to play the ACC games makes it that much harder to get excited about playing them. No disrespect to any ACC team it just doesn't feel natural to me and I miss the old September Big 10 lineup with the annual regulars.

I would not be upset if Stanford was no longer an annual game but it would depend on who the replacement(s) is/are

I've always felt Notre Dame committed to too many ACC games for the Olympic Sports join. The ACC got the better end of the bargain, IMO.

Four ACC games with the ACC picking the teams and ND picking the dates would be the beneficial FB-only arrangement for ND, so that is basically one extra FB game over the ideal to get a reasonably attractive home for their Olympic sports.

(02-12-2021 02:59 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 09:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 09:17 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 08:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 08:37 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  Terry if you were offered the same deal tomorrow as the current ACC deal with the BIG would you take it or stay in the ACC?

The BIG now has MD and Rutgers which provides east coast exposure.

I have read your posts and hatred of the BIG but wouldn't you rather play Northwestern vs Duke or Ohio State vs NC State? and I love to hate Michigan even more so with Harbaugh as the HC so playing them to me is extremely exciting

Nope. I had hoped in 2015 or so that ND would never play another Big Ten team again.

What if tomorrow ND was able to put olympic sports in Big East and have full independent football. Would you? I would.

Like TerryD and domer78, I am very leery of any formal arrangement with the B1G. I would rather have the present arrangement with the ACC than the B1G.

That said, I like ND playing B1G teams better than playing ACC teams. IMO, games vs Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State are inherently more interesting and have histories than games vs NC State, Duke, Virginia, etc. The only ACC teams that are on a par with the B1G teams are BC and Pitt. So I much prefer the pre-ACC deal schedules that would have games vs Purdue, Pitt, BC, Michigan and/or Michigan State on them then the current situation with five ACC teams.

Also, like you, If I had my druthers ND would have a hoops/Olympics arrangement with the current Big East not with the ACC. Not only is that a very adequate home for ND's non-football sports, but the Big East would surely do it while demanding nothing in return, ND would have full football independence. And no, I do not believe ND would have scheduling troubles or minor bowl troubles as a result. There are always other P5 willing to schedule ND, and ESPN would be happy to sign a minor bowl deal with ND, IMO.

It's the late season scheduling.

Making a deal with the ACC doesn't just allow, but it guarantees that there will be a decent schedule in the latter portion of the season.

Separate from a football conference and you have to fight every league's interest in maintaining their own priorities for late season scheduling.

Sure, they will find teams to play them. They'll get a few P5s and the AAC will come out in spades. But it's a heck of a lot easier to get decent match-ups at a higher rate when you're connected to a P5 league.

Historically, Notre Dame plays USC in late November every other year, so that's a big game that's often on the late season schedule. Also, IIRC, in the years before the ACC deal, ND would schedule Stanford for that November slot when their game vs USC was in South Bend and played earlier in the year. So they always seemed to have a good game in late November.

I take a look at the ND November schedules from 10 years ago and I just do not find them to be much different than the November schedules of the past few ACC years.

(02-13-2021 08:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Four ACC games with the ACC picking the teams and ND picking the dates would be the beneficial FB-only arrangement for ND, so that is basically one extra FB game over the ideal to get a reasonably attractive home for their Olympic sports.

What would be a better home or a more "reasonably attractive" conference to park those sports? Considering the ACC has elite level basketball M&W, baseball, lacrosse M&W, soccer M&W, softball, etc. I doubt there is any better place for them to choose that offers all of those sports at a high level. The PAC 12 would be better in some of those sports but the travel would be an issue comparatively.

(02-13-2021 11:54 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  

(02-13-2021 08:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Four ACC games with the ACC picking the teams and ND picking the dates would be the beneficial FB-only arrangement for ND, so that is basically one extra FB game over the ideal to get a reasonably attractive home for their Olympic sports.

What would be a better home or a more "reasonably attractive" conference to park those sports? Considering the ACC has elite level basketball M&W, baseball, lacrosse M&W, soccer M&W, softball, etc. I doubt there is any better place for them to choose that offers all of those sports at a high level. The PAC 12 would be better in some of those sports but the travel would be an issue comparatively.

IMO, the Big East is a better home to park those sports overall, because of geography/cultural fit, but even more important, they would likely be willing to do it "free of charge" to football, unlike the ACC.

(02-13-2021 04:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-13-2021 11:54 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  

(02-13-2021 08:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Four ACC games with the ACC picking the teams and ND picking the dates would be the beneficial FB-only arrangement for ND, so that is basically one extra FB game over the ideal to get a reasonably attractive home for their Olympic sports.

What would be a better home or a more "reasonably attractive" conference to park those sports? Considering the ACC has elite level basketball M&W, baseball, lacrosse M&W, soccer M&W, softball, etc. I doubt there is any better place for them to choose that offers all of those sports at a high level. The PAC 12 would be better in some of those sports but the travel would be an issue comparatively.

IMO, the Big East is a better home to park those sports overall, because of geography/cultural fit, but even more important, they would likely be willing to do it "free of charge" to football, unlike the ACC.

None of the new Big East schools have the athletic resources to consistently compete with Notre Dame in non revenue sports. Georgetown typically does the best in Directors Cup competition. In the last full year (2018-2019) Georgetown led the Big East in Directors Cup points...they would have placed 13th in the ACC. Notre Dame’s non-revenue sports are challenged in the ACC...they have a regular top 20 athletic department with peer institutions such as UNC, FSU, UVA and Duke.

The Big East could offer more flexibility for Notre Dame football scheduling, but it’s delusional to think that the Big East is a better home for non-revenue sports. Big East schools invest in basketball, and the ACC also has excellent basketball schools.