(02-05-2021 03:35 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 05:55 PM)Starfox207 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 04:52 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 01:31 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 12:31 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Aresco was widely praised for the way that he kept the FBS side of the Big East conference alive, despite losing half its teams between 2012 & 2014 (Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, & Rutgers).

He also received a great deal of credit and praise for the additions of Navy and Wichita State, which strengthened the conference in FB & BB.

When the time came to sign an extended broadcasting deal, Aresco did about as anyone could have expected by securing a $1 billion package, which more than doubled the prior revenue stream.

Some may blame Aresco for UConn's departure, and some have been frustrated by the way things have gone since UConn left, but no one knows whether it's Aresco or the AAC Presidents who actually bear the responsibility for the way things have gone since the UConn departure was announced. Recent evidence suggest that it may well have been the AAC Presidents who dropped the ball.

For those who've blamed Aresco for being overly passive and taking his foot off the P6 gas pedal, his interviews in the past 2-3 months and the details that have emerged about negotiations with Boise State have clarified that he is just as focused on improving the conference and striving for P6 status as ever. His most recent remarks have been highly positive and very encouraging.

It would be next to impossible to find a better advocate for the conference than Mike Aresco. There are very few people who have the same skill set, the same contacts, etc.

Just an FYI, you missed West Virginia and Navy had committed before Aresco, otherwise you re spot on.

Yeah, thanks. Navy was signed, sealed, and delivered pre-Aresco.
For those who want all the details, here is a link to the transcript of the Feb 7, 2012 teleconference with commissioner Marinatto and all the USNA vips.
https://navysports.com/news/2012/2/7/tra..._2015.aspx

Thanks For this, this was incredible. Going back in time and reading niamatalos last paragraph on finding a home, the 10 mill exit fee, there is a hurricane coming etc. I am so glad to share a conference with you guys. Some is happening in a few years and we are on the right path and raft together

I'll risk sounding like a broken record here.
Navy didn't join the Big East (then an auto-qual BCS conference) for a few dollars. It was all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football.
That's why Navy is all in on the AAC strategic plan and P6 - all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football. That's why Gladchuk sometimes seemed like Aresco's BFF when the AAC's road was rocky.
Navy's been playing at the top level of college football for 140 years and continuing to do so directly supports the physical development mission for all 4000+ midshipmen.
(and yes, Gladchuk and Niumat talk about scheduling and bowl agreements getting harder in that 2011-2012 timeframe, but the strategic reason was laid out there almost a decade ago)

Hmmmm...why did Navy turn down the Big East for over 2 decades then? Curious as to why Army Navy didn’t take Temple and Rutgers places for the original Big East FB league that was being pit together in the late 80’s?

(02-05-2021 05:04 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 03:35 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 05:55 PM)Starfox207 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 04:52 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 01:31 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Just an FYI, you missed West Virginia and Navy had committed before Aresco, otherwise you re spot on.

Yeah, thanks. Navy was signed, sealed, and delivered pre-Aresco.
For those who want all the details, here is a link to the transcript of the Feb 7, 2012 teleconference with commissioner Marinatto and all the USNA vips.
https://navysports.com/news/2012/2/7/tra..._2015.aspx

Thanks For this, this was incredible. Going back in time and reading niamatalos last paragraph on finding a home, the 10 mill exit fee, there is a hurricane coming etc. I am so glad to share a conference with you guys. Some is happening in a few years and we are on the right path and raft together

I'll risk sounding like a broken record here.
Navy didn't join the Big East (then an auto-qual BCS conference) for a few dollars. It was all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football.
That's why Navy is all in on the AAC strategic plan and P6 - all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football. That's why Gladchuk sometimes seemed like Aresco's BFF when the AAC's road was rocky.
Navy's been playing at the top level of college football for 140 years and continuing to do so directly supports the physical development mission for all 4000+ midshipmen.
(and yes, Gladchuk and Niumat talk about scheduling and bowl agreements getting harder in that 2011-2012 timeframe, but the strategic reason was laid out there almost a decade ago)

Hmmmm...why did Navy turn down the Big East for over 2 decades then? Curious as to why Army Navy didn’t take Temple and Rutgers places for the original Big East FB league that was being pit together in the late 80’s?

So the point is, in 2011, the leadership at Navy came to the conclusion that the strategic landscape of college football had changed such that it was time for Navy to change course.
You want to compare that decision context to the 1980s?

Just earlier to the strategic environment dictating that decision, Navy had already watched PLENTY of change - realignment up to that point, the rise of the BCS, conference championship games -- Army Navy had recently moved from the first to second Saturday of December to move away from competing with CCGs. And even ALL THAT change hadn't yet pushed Navy to eschew 130 years of independence (and a recent decade of pretty daggone successful independence)...but the coming sea change from the BCS to the CFP, even though the shape and form of the latter was not yet known, was the big event driving Navy to risk a lot in order to align with the "haves" and not be stranded with the "have-nots."

The 80s?
On one side of the ledger, it wasn't even close to the same strategic environment. The "haves" hadn't yet taken the leaps and bounds of separation from the "have-nots". Let me grab 1989...There were 18 bowl games that year. Notre Dame signed a six-year $30 million dollar deal with NBC. The Big10 and Pac10 were accurately named, and the SEC only had ten members as well. SWC and Big8 were going strong. Independent Navy had plenty of company - #1 Miami, #2 ND, #3 FSU, #15 Penn State, #17 Pitt, and #21 WVU (in other words, the Lambert Trophy was kind of a big deal).
But that's not to say Navy had delusions of grandeur - Navy played 3 DI-AA teams that year...and lost to the Citadel, JMU, and Delaware. But we won at UNC and at BC early in the year. Annapolis Capital Sports Editor Joe Gross (a supporter of Navy sports) wrote a column the week of Army-Navy suggesting that the two service academies should move down to DI-AA. Fortunately, Alton Grizzard '91 (RIP) and Frank Schenk '91 and the guys delivered one for the ages to stifle such talk. Suffice it to say, in addition to "moving up" in 1989 not being what it was in 2011, Navy wasn't moving up in that timeframe - hanging on to where we were was the challenge.

Fast Forward a few years...
In 2000-2001, Navy went 1-20. My 10-year reunion was a 70-7 beatdown from George O'Leary led Georgia Tech. We hired Chet Gladchuk as AD. Chet hired Paul Johnson. PJ's first year still made for a 3-30 three-year stretch, but then the tides turned.
We had already stopped playing multiple DI-AA teams in a year...but we also stopped playing a murderers' row. We figured out how to play Army, AF, ND, but also a national profile schedule which mixed should-wins, toss-ups, and long-shot games. And we started winning. And going to bowls from 2003 onward. There is some sustained stretch in that 2003-onward timeframe where Navy beat more BCS-AQ/CFP-"P5" teams than any other non-AQ/non-"P5" team, yes more than Boise.

So if the difference in the strategic environment was worlds apart from 1989 to 2011...the difference in Navy was universes apart from 1989 to 2011.

And now let's look again at what Chet and Coach Niumat were saying....we've done great since 2003 - bowls year after year, and selling tickets since we could start in October so that the bowls were at least a break-even proposition. Army Navy is on solid ground and delivering cash to support 33 varsity sports. But BECAUSE we've been successful, the BCS-AQ schools aren't answering Chet's calls so much. At that time we had bowls tied in for the next five years...but we have no idea what the next bowl cycle holds. And then you say that the BCS is going to move to a playoff and the whole college football world will change? Yup, then Navy takes stock and makes the call.

I don't know how you can think that there IS any comparison with all the years and all the decades before that point in time.

(sidebar- why does Army not make a similar decision? 1. They have that CUSA scar tissue. 2- they seem pretty happy to play two FCS teams more often than they play one. And somehow still say BS like "national champions of toughness". 3- remember all that Navy and BCS-AQ teams not answering calls from Annapolis? They're still taking calls from Highland Falls. 4- They obviously love them some Shreveport (Independence Bowl three times in six years versus Navy getting San Diego, Houston, Memphis, DC, Annapolis, Charlotte....) 5- They may just have a different strategic assessment. They may just think they'll be okay whatever comes. Navy didn't and took the decision we did)

(02-05-2021 06:51 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 05:04 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 03:35 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 05:55 PM)Starfox207 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 04:52 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  Yeah, thanks. Navy was signed, sealed, and delivered pre-Aresco.
For those who want all the details, here is a link to the transcript of the Feb 7, 2012 teleconference with commissioner Marinatto and all the USNA vips.
https://navysports.com/news/2012/2/7/tra..._2015.aspx

Thanks For this, this was incredible. Going back in time and reading niamatalos last paragraph on finding a home, the 10 mill exit fee, there is a hurricane coming etc. I am so glad to share a conference with you guys. Some is happening in a few years and we are on the right path and raft together

I'll risk sounding like a broken record here.
Navy didn't join the Big East (then an auto-qual BCS conference) for a few dollars. It was all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football.
That's why Navy is all in on the AAC strategic plan and P6 - all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football. That's why Gladchuk sometimes seemed like Aresco's BFF when the AAC's road was rocky.
Navy's been playing at the top level of college football for 140 years and continuing to do so directly supports the physical development mission for all 4000+ midshipmen.
(and yes, Gladchuk and Niumat talk about scheduling and bowl agreements getting harder in that 2011-2012 timeframe, but the strategic reason was laid out there almost a decade ago)

Hmmmm...why did Navy turn down the Big East for over 2 decades then? Curious as to why Army Navy didn’t take Temple and Rutgers places for the original Big East FB league that was being pit together in the late 80’s?

So the point is, in 2011, the leadership at Navy came to the conclusion that the strategic landscape of college football had changed such that it was time for Navy to change course.
You want to compare that decision context to the 1980s?

Just earlier to the strategic environment dictating that decision, Navy had already watched PLENTY of change - realignment up to that point, the rise of the BCS, conference championship games -- Army Navy had recently moved from the first to second Saturday of December to move away from competing with CCGs. And even ALL THAT change hadn't yet pushed Navy to eschew 130 years of independence (and a recent decade of pretty daggone successful independence)...but the coming sea change from the BCS to the CFP, even though the shape and form of the latter was not yet known, was the big event driving Navy to risk a lot in order to align with the "haves" and not be stranded with the "have-nots."

The 80s?
On one side of the ledger, it wasn't even close to the same strategic environment. The "haves" hadn't yet taken the leaps and bounds of separation from the "have-nots". Let me grab 1989...There were 18 bowl games that year. Notre Dame signed a six-year $30 million dollar deal with NBC. The Big10 and Pac10 were accurately named, and the SEC only had ten members as well. SWC and Big8 were going strong. Independent Navy had plenty of company - #1 Miami, #2 ND, #3 FSU, #15 Penn State, #17 Pitt, and #21 WVU (in other words, the Lambert Trophy was kind of a big deal).
But that's not to say Navy had delusions of grandeur - Navy played 3 DI-AA teams that year...and lost to the Citadel, JMU, and Delaware. But we won at UNC and at BC early in the year. Annapolis Capital Sports Editor Joe Gross (a supporter of Navy sports) wrote a column the week of Army-Navy suggesting that the two service academies should move down to DI-AA. Fortunately, Alton Grizzard '91 (RIP) and Frank Schenk '91 and the guys delivered one for the ages to stifle such talk. Suffice it to say, in addition to "moving up" in 1989 not being what it was in 2011, Navy wasn't moving up in that timeframe - hanging on to where we were was the challenge.

Fast Forward a few years...
In 2000-2001, Navy went 1-20. My 10-year reunion was a 70-7 beatdown from George O'Leary led Georgia Tech. We hired Chet Gladchuk as AD. Chet hired Paul Johnson. PJ's first year still made for a 3-30 three-year stretch, but then the tides turned.
We had already stopped playing multiple DI-AA teams in a year...but we also stopped playing a murderers' row. We figured out how to play Army, AF, ND, but also a national profile schedule which mixed should-wins, toss-ups, and long-shot games. And we started winning. And going to bowls from 2003 onward. There is some sustained stretch in that 2003-onward timeframe where Navy beat more BCS-AQ/CFP-"P5" teams than any other non-AQ/non-"P5" team, yes more than Boise.

So if the difference in the strategic environment was worlds apart from 1989 to 2011...the difference in Navy was universes apart from 1989 to 2011.

And now let's look again at what Chet and Coach Niumat were saying....we've done great since 2003 - bowls year after year, and selling tickets since we could start in October so that the bowls were at least a break-even proposition. Army Navy is on solid ground and delivering cash to support 33 varsity sports. But BECAUSE we've been successful, the BCS-AQ schools aren't answering Chet's calls so much. At that time we had bowls tied in for the next five years...but we have no idea what the next bowl cycle holds. And then you say that the BCS is going to move to a playoff and the whole college football world will change? Yup, then Navy takes stock and makes the call.

I don't know how you can think that there IS any comparison with all the years and all the decades before that point in time.

(sidebar- why does Army not make a similar decision? 1. They have that CUSA scar tissue. 2- they seem pretty happy to play two FCS teams more often than they play one. And somehow still say BS like "national champions of toughness". 3- remember all that Navy and BCS-AQ teams not answering calls from Annapolis? They're still taking calls from Highland Falls. 4- They obviously love them some Shreveport (Independence Bowl three times in six years versus Navy getting San Diego, Houston, Memphis, DC, Annapolis, Charlotte....) 5- They may just have a different strategic assessment. They may just think they'll be okay whatever comes. Navy didn't and took the decision we did)

Good post.
Ok, not the 80’s how about mid 2000’s for Navy to the Big East?
Let’s say after your bowl win in San Francisco over the 3rd place MWC finisher (New Mexico)
The big east was at its lowest point and would’ve taken Navy in a heartbeat as a FB only add.
Why not join the Auto BCS Bid Big East then?

(02-05-2021 08:22 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 06:51 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 05:04 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 03:35 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 05:55 PM)Starfox207 Wrote:  Thanks For this, this was incredible. Going back in time and reading niamatalos last paragraph on finding a home, the 10 mill exit fee, there is a hurricane coming etc. I am so glad to share a conference with you guys. Some is happening in a few years and we are on the right path and raft together

I'll risk sounding like a broken record here.
Navy didn't join the Big East (then an auto-qual BCS conference) for a few dollars. It was all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football.
That's why Navy is all in on the AAC strategic plan and P6 - all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football. That's why Gladchuk sometimes seemed like Aresco's BFF when the AAC's road was rocky.
Navy's been playing at the top level of college football for 140 years and continuing to do so directly supports the physical development mission for all 4000+ midshipmen.
(and yes, Gladchuk and Niumat talk about scheduling and bowl agreements getting harder in that 2011-2012 timeframe, but the strategic reason was laid out there almost a decade ago)

Hmmmm...why did Navy turn down the Big East for over 2 decades then? Curious as to why Army Navy didn’t take Temple and Rutgers places for the original Big East FB league that was being pit together in the late 80’s?

So the point is, in 2011, the leadership at Navy came to the conclusion that the strategic landscape of college football had changed such that it was time for Navy to change course.
You want to compare that decision context to the 1980s?

Just earlier to the strategic environment dictating that decision, Navy had already watched PLENTY of change - realignment up to that point, the rise of the BCS, conference championship games -- Army Navy had recently moved from the first to second Saturday of December to move away from competing with CCGs. And even ALL THAT change hadn't yet pushed Navy to eschew 130 years of independence (and a recent decade of pretty daggone successful independence)...but the coming sea change from the BCS to the CFP, even though the shape and form of the latter was not yet known, was the big event driving Navy to risk a lot in order to align with the "haves" and not be stranded with the "have-nots."

The 80s?
On one side of the ledger, it wasn't even close to the same strategic environment. The "haves" hadn't yet taken the leaps and bounds of separation from the "have-nots". Let me grab 1989...There were 18 bowl games that year. Notre Dame signed a six-year $30 million dollar deal with NBC. The Big10 and Pac10 were accurately named, and the SEC only had ten members as well. SWC and Big8 were going strong. Independent Navy had plenty of company - #1 Miami, #2 ND, #3 FSU, #15 Penn State, #17 Pitt, and #21 WVU (in other words, the Lambert Trophy was kind of a big deal).
But that's not to say Navy had delusions of grandeur - Navy played 3 DI-AA teams that year...and lost to the Citadel, JMU, and Delaware. But we won at UNC and at BC early in the year. Annapolis Capital Sports Editor Joe Gross (a supporter of Navy sports) wrote a column the week of Army-Navy suggesting that the two service academies should move down to DI-AA. Fortunately, Alton Grizzard '91 (RIP) and Frank Schenk '91 and the guys delivered one for the ages to stifle such talk. Suffice it to say, in addition to "moving up" in 1989 not being what it was in 2011, Navy wasn't moving up in that timeframe - hanging on to where we were was the challenge.

Fast Forward a few years...
In 2000-2001, Navy went 1-20. My 10-year reunion was a 70-7 beatdown from George O'Leary led Georgia Tech. We hired Chet Gladchuk as AD. Chet hired Paul Johnson. PJ's first year still made for a 3-30 three-year stretch, but then the tides turned.
We had already stopped playing multiple DI-AA teams in a year...but we also stopped playing a murderers' row. We figured out how to play Army, AF, ND, but also a national profile schedule which mixed should-wins, toss-ups, and long-shot games. And we started winning. And going to bowls from 2003 onward. There is some sustained stretch in that 2003-onward timeframe where Navy beat more BCS-AQ/CFP-"P5" teams than any other non-AQ/non-"P5" team, yes more than Boise.

So if the difference in the strategic environment was worlds apart from 1989 to 2011...the difference in Navy was universes apart from 1989 to 2011.

And now let's look again at what Chet and Coach Niumat were saying....we've done great since 2003 - bowls year after year, and selling tickets since we could start in October so that the bowls were at least a break-even proposition. Army Navy is on solid ground and delivering cash to support 33 varsity sports. But BECAUSE we've been successful, the BCS-AQ schools aren't answering Chet's calls so much. At that time we had bowls tied in for the next five years...but we have no idea what the next bowl cycle holds. And then you say that the BCS is going to move to a playoff and the whole college football world will change? Yup, then Navy takes stock and makes the call.

I don't know how you can think that there IS any comparison with all the years and all the decades before that point in time.

(sidebar- why does Army not make a similar decision? 1. They have that CUSA scar tissue. 2- they seem pretty happy to play two FCS teams more often than they play one. And somehow still say BS like "national champions of toughness". 3- remember all that Navy and BCS-AQ teams not answering calls from Annapolis? They're still taking calls from Highland Falls. 4- They obviously love them some Shreveport (Independence Bowl three times in six years versus Navy getting San Diego, Houston, Memphis, DC, Annapolis, Charlotte....) 5- They may just have a different strategic assessment. They may just think they'll be okay whatever comes. Navy didn't and took the decision we did)

Good post.
Ok, not the 80’s how about mid 2000’s for Navy to the Big East?
Let’s say after your bowl win in San Francisco over the 3rd place MWC finisher (New Mexico)
The big east was at its lowest point and would’ve taken Navy in a heartbeat as a FB only add.
Why not join the Auto BCS Bid Big East then?

There wasn't a strategic need to because the overall environment hadn't yet changed to the extent it had when Navy did take that plunge.
There wasn't a strategic need to because Navy went on a run of pretty sweet independent success in that decade.
And quite frankly, Navy wasn't ready to take that step up.

What was going on in 2004? The BCS was still in its initial years, it was still evolving. With multiple unbeatens, there was controversy hearkening back to the pre-BCS days. The AP Poll had their moment of not wanting to BE the story and pulled out of BCS calculations and the Harris Poll was invented out of thin air. The mwc's Utah was a BCS-buster and finished #4/#5 -- the evolving BCS had rules for busting itself and allowed that high a finish, rather than the lower glass ceiling in the CFP. Miami and Virginia Tech had just started in the ACC...but Big East co-champs Pitt and BC were both ranked. The PAC was still 10, and the Big 12 was twelve, but the Big Ten was 11. The only conferences with divisions and CCG were the Big12, the MAC, and the 12-team SEC. The BCS AQ conference re-alignment -- which really created the sight picture that Navy needed to get inside before the coming storm -- really only came at the end of that decade.

And Navy in 2004? Life was good. As you note - we beat the mwc #2 UNM in the Emerald Bowl sealing the win with a fourteen-and-a-half minute drive for a FG. Mmmmmm. We finished with 10 wins and ranked. That was our second straight bowl, and we did well enough selling tickets that we started lining up year-by-year bowl deals in advance. Heck, not one but TWO bowls were created with the idea of independent Navy being a tentpole (Poinsettia and what is now the Military Bowl). We beat Army for #3 of what would end up 14 in a row. We beat AF for the second year in a row -- that streak would end up 7 straight over AF and 7 straight CinC Trophies. We had Paul Johnson and a real identity as the best rushing offense around. Army meanwhile was finishing up that futile CUSA run. We could build national schedules that were a mix of BCS conference teams, local trips, good draws for home games. I won't suggest we were ND - we were a different picture of a successful independent. And I won't say "model" or "example" either as if anyone else could just follow the template - we had a lot of advantages of history and rivalries and brand to start from. The environment wasn't yet saying AQ/"P5" or nothing, and Navy was having a very successful decade as an independent.

But you know what -- still not ready to step up in weight class. 2003 and 2004 were the start of on-field success. But In 2002 we had LOST ten games. And in 2001 we had lost ten games. And in 2000 we had lost ten games. 2004 would have been year 40 of the losing streak to Notre Dame. Yes, in 2004 we beat Duke, Vandy, and Rutgers...not exactly a murderers row for our BCS AQ wins. Like I said Navy might have finished 2004 ranked, but the BigEast co-champs were both ranked. How did Navy fare against the Big East 2003-2010? 2-3 vs Rutgers, 1-3 vs Pitt, and 1-0 vs UConn. A pretty successful near-decade, and 4-6 vs the Big East. We were certainly MORE ready at the end of the decade - 2009 was another 10 win season, seventh straight CiC, and topped off with a win over 8-win Missouri in the Texas Bowl. Yet even when we did finally actually agree to join a depleted Big East -- Pitt and Syracuse and West Virginia gone, Louisville and Rutgers still there -- there was a lot of handwringing from Navy fans and commentators that we wouldn't survive. Not, like, will lose more than they win, some were saying that Navy football players would be so overmatched they'd all get such injuries they'd be unable to commission as Navy and Marine Corps Officers. (Heck, three years later when we actually consummated the deal plenty of people on this board said we wouldn't be able to keep up in the American.)

It wasn't the time...until it was the time. And don't forget the gap between signing the membership and starting play was also a time of stadium upgrades, recruiting with a Big East or American pitch, and more on-field development 2012-2014 being the first three years of Keenan Reynolds.

It just wasn't yet the right time. As Marinatto said - Big East kept checking in, but we were good in our independent status until that last year when the tectonic shifts were evident, and...then it was time.

(02-05-2021 06:51 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 05:04 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 03:35 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 05:55 PM)Starfox207 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 04:52 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  Yeah, thanks. Navy was signed, sealed, and delivered pre-Aresco.
For those who want all the details, here is a link to the transcript of the Feb 7, 2012 teleconference with commissioner Marinatto and all the USNA vips.
https://navysports.com/news/2012/2/7/tra..._2015.aspx

Thanks For this, this was incredible. Going back in time and reading niamatalos last paragraph on finding a home, the 10 mill exit fee, there is a hurricane coming etc. I am so glad to share a conference with you guys. Some is happening in a few years and we are on the right path and raft together

I'll risk sounding like a broken record here.
Navy didn't join the Big East (then an auto-qual BCS conference) for a few dollars. It was all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football.
That's why Navy is all in on the AAC strategic plan and P6 - all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football. That's why Gladchuk sometimes seemed like Aresco's BFF when the AAC's road was rocky.
Navy's been playing at the top level of college football for 140 years and continuing to do so directly supports the physical development mission for all 4000+ midshipmen.
(and yes, Gladchuk and Niumat talk about scheduling and bowl agreements getting harder in that 2011-2012 timeframe, but the strategic reason was laid out there almost a decade ago)

Hmmmm...why did Navy turn down the Big East for over 2 decades then? Curious as to why Army Navy didn’t take Temple and Rutgers places for the original Big East FB league that was being pit together in the late 80’s?

So the point is, in 2011, the leadership at Navy came to the conclusion that the strategic landscape of college football had changed such that it was time for Navy to change course.
You want to compare that decision context to the 1980s?

Just earlier to the strategic environment dictating that decision, Navy had already watched PLENTY of change - realignment up to that point, the rise of the BCS, conference championship games -- Army Navy had recently moved from the first to second Saturday of December to move away from competing with CCGs. And even ALL THAT change hadn't yet pushed Navy to eschew 130 years of independence (and a recent decade of pretty daggone successful independence)...but the coming sea change from the BCS to the CFP, even though the shape and form of the latter was not yet known, was the big event driving Navy to risk a lot in order to align with the "haves" and not be stranded with the "have-nots."

The 80s?
On one side of the ledger, it wasn't even close to the same strategic environment. The "haves" hadn't yet taken the leaps and bounds of separation from the "have-nots". Let me grab 1989...There were 18 bowl games that year. Notre Dame signed a six-year $30 million dollar deal with NBC. The Big10 and Pac10 were accurately named, and the SEC only had ten members as well. SWC and Big8 were going strong. Independent Navy had plenty of company - #1 Miami, #2 ND, #3 FSU, #15 Penn State, #17 Pitt, and #21 WVU (in other words, the Lambert Trophy was kind of a big deal).
But that's not to say Navy had delusions of grandeur - Navy played 3 DI-AA teams that year...and lost to the Citadel, JMU, and Delaware. But we won at UNC and at BC early in the year. Annapolis Capital Sports Editor Joe Gross (a supporter of Navy sports) wrote a column the week of Army-Navy suggesting that the two service academies should move down to DI-AA. Fortunately, Alton Grizzard '91 (RIP) and Frank Schenk '91 and the guys delivered one for the ages to stifle such talk. Suffice it to say, in addition to "moving up" in 1989 not being what it was in 2011, Navy wasn't moving up in that timeframe - hanging on to where we were was the challenge.

Fast Forward a few years...
In 2000-2001, Navy went 1-20. My 10-year reunion was a 70-7 beatdown from George O'Leary led Georgia Tech. We hired Chet Gladchuk as AD. Chet hired Paul Johnson. PJ's first year still made for a 3-30 three-year stretch, but then the tides turned.
We had already stopped playing multiple DI-AA teams in a year...but we also stopped playing a murderers' row. We figured out how to play Army, AF, ND, but also a national profile schedule which mixed should-wins, toss-ups, and long-shot games. And we started winning. And going to bowls from 2003 onward. There is some sustained stretch in that 2003-onward timeframe where Navy beat more BCS-AQ/CFP-"P5" teams than any other non-AQ/non-"P5" team, yes more than Boise.

So if the difference in the strategic environment was worlds apart from 1989 to 2011...the difference in Navy was universes apart from 1989 to 2011.

And now let's look again at what Chet and Coach Niumat were saying....we've done great since 2003 - bowls year after year, and selling tickets since we could start in October so that the bowls were at least a break-even proposition. Army Navy is on solid ground and delivering cash to support 33 varsity sports. But BECAUSE we've been successful, the BCS-AQ schools aren't answering Chet's calls so much. At that time we had bowls tied in for the next five years...but we have no idea what the next bowl cycle holds. And then you say that the BCS is going to move to a playoff and the whole college football world will change? Yup, then Navy takes stock and makes the call.

I don't know how you can think that there IS any comparison with all the years and all the decades before that point in time.

(sidebar- why does Army not make a similar decision? 1. They have that CUSA scar tissue. 2- they seem pretty happy to play two FCS teams more often than they play one. And somehow still say BS like "national champions of toughness". 3- remember all that Navy and BCS-AQ teams not answering calls from Annapolis? They're still taking calls from Highland Falls. 4- They obviously love them some Shreveport (Independence Bowl three times in six years versus Navy getting San Diego, Houston, Memphis, DC, Annapolis, Charlotte....) 5- They may just have a different strategic assessment. They may just think they'll be okay whatever comes. Navy didn't and took the decision we did)

I remember all these talking points when the BIG EAST first met with Navy about membership, I also remember the fact that Navy needed 5 years to fulfil it's schedule commitment.

Interesting and informative thread.

There has been some discussion about the role that Commissioner Aresco played in helping to guide the conference from where it was as the Big East to where it became as the American Athletic Conference.

For example, this was recently posted on another thread:

Quote:Aresco wasn't in charge of the Big East when SMU and Houston were invited, he came later.

So I did a little investigating and found this:

Michael L. Aresco is an American college sports and (former) television executive. Aresco is the current commissioner of the American Athletic Conference (AAC/The American), a college athletics conference. He was the last commissioner of the old Big East Conference from August 14, 2012 to June 30, 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aresco

.

Noting that he took on the position of Big East Commissioner at a very critical time, I did a bit more investigating and found this article, which was published 3 months before Aresco was hired:

.

New York Times

By Pete Thamel May 7, 2012

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/sport...ioner.html

"When Big East Commissioner John Marinatto resigned Monday, the battered league was left at another crossroads. It could either crumble or find itself a billion-dollar television deal in September.

The Big East, scheduled to have 13 Football Bowl Subdivision programs and 18 basketball universities, now has a gypsy’s soul, with Kardashian commitment issues and a future so unstable that its pool of candidates will not be filled with polished clones like Pacific-12 Commissioner Larry Scott.

Marinatto’s departure comes after less than three years, a period defined by the exits of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia — and Texas Christian, which left for the Big 12 before ever playing a game. Marinatto was overwhelmed and exasperated by the tumult, and the difficulty of the job may be appreciated only by the next brave soul who signs up. "

.

This left me with the impression that the new Commissioner had played a key role in bringing aboard all the schools needed to replace Pitt, Syracuse, etc. (such as Houston and SMU), since they didn't begin playing into the AAC until 2013 or 2014.

However, then I found these reports, which made it clear that all but Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU had planned to join the "Big East" before Marinatto decided to resign as Commissioner:


December 7, 2011 SMU announces move to BIG EAST

SMU, Houston, UCF Become Full Members; Boise State, San Diego State Become Football Members

This was announced by Commissioner John Marinatto...

https://www.smu.edu/News/2011/big-east-a...-07dec2011

....and this:

Memphis accepts invite, joins Big East

Feb 8, 2012 ESPN.com news services

"It is an historic day for us," University of Memphis president Shirley Raines said during a teleconference with Big East commissioner John Marinatto and Memphis athletic director R.C. Johnson.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...n-big-east


...this:

(Temple) will compete in (Big East) football beginning with the 2012 season and become a full member in 2013-14

The Executive Committee of Temples Board of Trustees voted Wednesday morning to accept the Big Easts invitation.

Mar 7, 2012

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/n...ble-temple

....and this:

Tulane, East Carolina joining Big East
Nov 27, 2012

Brett McMurphyCollege football reporter

NOTE: This was announced a few months after Aresco became the AAC Commissioner.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...t-football

....then, there was this announcement:

Boise State Makes It Official, Pulling Out Of Big East Deal
JEFF OTTERBEIN December 31, 2012

The hits keep coming, not that they are unexpected. Boise State will not be playing football in the Big East next season.

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-hus...story.html

...and this:


SDSU Football Ditches Plan To Join Big East Conference

Wednesday, January 16, 2013

City News Service

San Diego State University ditched plans for its football team to join the Big East Conference and to shift most of its other sports to the Big West, deciding today to stick with the Mountain West Conference.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/16/sd...conferenc/


......................................................................................................

These teams were in the Big East/AAC (FB) in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014:

...2011*.............2012^..........2013^.............2014.............2015

Cincinnati............Cincy...........Cincy..............Cincy.............Cincy
Connecticut.........UConn..........UConn............UConn............UConn
Louisville.............Louisville......Louisville.........Tulane............Tulane
Pitt.....................Pitt..............Memphis.........Memphis.........Memphis
Rutgers...............Rutgers........Rutgers...........Tulsa.............Tulsa
USF....................USF.............USF.................USF...............USF
Syracuse.............Syracuse......Houston..........Houston..........Houston
West Virginia.......Temple........Temple...........Temple...........Temple
............................................SMU...............SMU...............SMU
............................................UCF................UCF...............UCF
..................................................................ECU..............ECU
.......................................................................................Navy

*These were the 8 BEC FB schools from 2005-2011.

^2012 was the Big East's final FB season; 2013 was the 1st AAC season.


Basketball:

Big East...........American Athletic Conference

2012-13..........2013-14..........2015-16.............//...........2017-18

Cincy................Cincy................Cincy
UConn..............UConn...............UConn
Pitt.................Houston.............Houston
Louisville.........Louisville............Tulane
Syracuse.........Memphis............Memphis
Rutgers............Rutgers...............Tulsa
USF...................USF...................USF
Notre Dame.......SMU..................SMU
Villanova.........Temple..............Temple
Seton Hall..........UCF...................UCF
Providence.................................ECU
Georgetown..........................................................Wichita St.
Marquette
St. John's
DePaul

......................................................................................................

That's the way things seemed to unfold, but it would be interesting to know how people who remember the story would put all the pieces together into a coherent narrative.

Questions:

1) Why did Marinatto resign?

It seems odd that he resigned, despite the fact that he had succeeded in bringing Temple, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and SMU into the Big East to replace the departing teams (WVU, Pitt and Syracuse), and that he had also put together a deal to bring Boise State and SDSU in as football members.

Was he mostly "overwhelmed and exasperated" by the disagreements between the "C7" basketball schools and the BE FB schools, or was it something else?


2) Why did Boise State and SDSU back out of their agreement to play FB in the Big East (aka the AAC)?

Was it because they lost interest after Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU joined the AAC, or was it for some other reason?

3) Why were Tulane, Tulsa, ECU (and Navy) invited to join the AAC, despite the fact that Boise State and SDSU had signed a deal to play FB in the Big East in Fall, 2013?

Boise and SDSU would have brought the number of AAC FB schools up to 10. There were some reports that they needed to have 12 teams to play a championship game without a NCAA waiver. Was that it?

4) Did the addition of these three schools have anything to do with the decision of the "C7" (Villanova, etc.) to separate from the Big East FB/AAC schools, or would they have left, regardless, and was there any way that the Big East could have been held together?

If it had, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis apparently would have been all-sports members, along with Cincy, UConn, USF and the C7 schools. Is that the correct list?

5) Who should get the lion's share of the credit for making it possible for the AAC to survive the realignment crisis and dissolution of the Big East that began ~2010/2011 and ended in 2014/15?

Putting all the pieces of the story back together, it seems like Marinatto almost had it all figured out, with 5 new full members and 2 FB members (Boise & SDSU), but then everything suddenly started to unravel again, maybe when WVU and TCU were invited to join the Big 12. Perhaps that's what overwhelmed and exasperated him - - or did he also get wind of the fact that Louisville and Rutgers were being contacted by the ACC and the Big Ten (?)

Then, whatever caused Marinatto to step down, Mike Aresco stepped in and had to add a few more FB schools to have a FB championship game according to the NCAA rules, and he brought in Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU, but then Boise and SDSU lost interest and backed out...followed by the decision of the C7 basketball schools to separate from the conference.

Is that how it happened?

If so, it seems that Marinatto carried the ball halfway to the goal line, and would have scored, but was prevented from scoring because the P5 conferences kept taking teams out of the Big East (first WVU & TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, and eventually, it lost Louisville & Rutgers). After all, the Big East only had 8 all-sports members, and it would end up losing 6 of the 8. Marinatto brought Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis aboard, which got him to 9 schools, and he had signed Navy, Boise, & SDSU (FB only) so that the conference could hold a championship game with 12 FB schools.

If that is the correct account of the events, then Mike Aresco's main contributions would have been (a) bringing Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU aboard to replace Louisville and Rutgers so the AAC would still have enough members to have a FB championship game; (b) working with the conference's team of lawyers to pull the AAC through as an all-sports conference after losing 6 of the 8 BE FB teams, Notre Dame, and the C7 basketball schools, © selling off the Big East name to the C7, (d) rebranding the conference as the "American Athletic Conference," (e) working out various interim broadcasting agreements, (f) sorting out and negotiating the various exit fee issues and their disbursements, (g) bringing Wichita State aboard, (h) putting together an ambitious "P6" strategic plan, (i) negotiating the still-new 12-year broadcasting package with ESPN, and (j) renegotiating the deal with ESPN after the departure of Connecticut.

That's a hefty job description. It seems the conference owes its continuing existence to the efforts of Commissioner Aresco, more than anyone else, but that none of this would have been possible if the former Commissioner Marinatto hadn't brought Temple, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and Navy on board to keep the FB side of the conference in business through the transition period.

(02-07-2021 03:44 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Interesting and informative thread.

There has been some discussion about the role that Commissioner Aresco played in helping to guide the conference from where it was as the Big East to where it became as the American Athletic Conference.

For example, this was recently posted on another thread:

Quote:Aresco wasn't in charge of the Big East when SMU and Houston were invited, he came later.

So I did a little investigating and found this:

Michael L. Aresco is an American college sports and (former) television executive. Aresco is the current commissioner of the American Athletic Conference (AAC/The American), a college athletics conference. He was the last commissioner of the old Big East Conference from August 14, 2012 to June 30, 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aresco

.

Noting that he took on the position of Big East Commissioner at a very critical time, I did a bit more investigating and found this article, which was published 3 months before Aresco was hired:

.

New York Times

By Pete Thamel May 7, 2012

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/sport...ioner.html

"When Big East Commissioner John Marinatto resigned Monday, the battered league was left at another crossroads. It could either crumble or find itself a billion-dollar television deal in September.

The Big East, scheduled to have 13 Football Bowl Subdivision programs and 18 basketball universities, now has a gypsy’s soul, with Kardashian commitment issues and a future so unstable that its pool of candidates will not be filled with polished clones like Pacific-12 Commissioner Larry Scott.

Marinatto’s departure comes after less than three years, a period defined by the exits of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia — and Texas Christian, which left for the Big 12 before ever playing a game. Marinatto was overwhelmed and exasperated by the tumult, and the difficulty of the job may be appreciated only by the next brave soul who signs up. "

.

This left me with the impression that the new Commissioner had played a key role in bringing aboard all the schools needed to replace Pitt, Syracuse, etc. (such as Houston and SMU), since they didn't begin playing into the AAC until 2013 or 2014.

However, then I found these reports, which made it clear that all but Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU had planned to join the "Big East" before Marinatto decided to resign as Commissioner:


December 7, 2011 SMU announces move to BIG EAST

SMU, Houston, UCF Become Full Members; Boise State, San Diego State Become Football Members

This was announced by Commissioner John Marinatto...

https://www.smu.edu/News/2011/big-east-a...-07dec2011

....and this:

Memphis accepts invite, joins Big East

Feb 8, 2012 ESPN.com news services

"It is an historic day for us," University of Memphis president Shirley Raines said during a teleconference with Big East commissioner John Marinatto and Memphis athletic director R.C. Johnson.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...n-big-east


...this:

(Temple) will compete in (Big East) football beginning with the 2012 season and become a full member in 2013-14

The Executive Committee of Temples Board of Trustees voted Wednesday morning to accept the Big Easts invitation.

Mar 7, 2012

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/n...ble-temple

....and this:

Tulane, East Carolina joining Big East
Nov 27, 2012

Brett McMurphyCollege football reporter

NOTE: This was announced a few months after Aresco became the AAC Commissioner.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...t-football

....then, there was this announcement:

Boise State Makes It Official, Pulling Out Of Big East Deal
JEFF OTTERBEIN December 31, 2012

The hits keep coming, not that they are unexpected. Boise State will not be playing football in the Big East next season.

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-hus...story.html

...and this:


SDSU Football Ditches Plan To Join Big East Conference

Wednesday, January 16, 2013

City News Service

San Diego State University ditched plans for its football team to join the Big East Conference and to shift most of its other sports to the Big West, deciding today to stick with the Mountain West Conference.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/16/sd...conferenc/


......................................................................................................

These teams were in the Big East/AAC (FB) in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014:

...2011*.............2012^..........2013^.............2014.............2015

Cincinnati............Cincy...........Cincy..............Cincy.............Cincy
Connecticut.........UConn..........UConn............UConn............UConn
Louisville.............Louisville......Louisville.........Tulane............Tulane
Pitt.....................Pitt..............Memphis.........Memphis.........Memphis
Rutgers...............Rutgers........Rutgers...........Tulsa.............Tulsa
USF....................USF.............USF.................USF...............USF
Syracuse.............Syracuse......Houston..........Houston..........Houston
West Virginia.......Temple........Temple...........Temple...........Temple
............................................SMU...............SMU...............SMU
............................................UCF................UCF...............UCF
..................................................................ECU..............ECU
.......................................................................................Navy

*These were the 8 BEC FB schools from 2005-2011.

^2012 was the Big East's final FB season; 2013 was the 1st AAC season.


Basketball:

Big East...........American Athletic Conference

2012-13..........2013-14..........2015-16.............//...........2017-18

Cincy................Cincy................Cincy
UConn..............UConn...............UConn
Pitt.................Houston.............Houston
Louisville.........Louisville............Tulane
Syracuse.........Memphis............Memphis
Rutgers............Rutgers...............Tulsa
USF...................USF...................USF
Notre Dame.......SMU..................SMU
Villanova.........Temple..............Temple
Seton Hall..........UCF...................UCF
Providence.................................ECU
Georgetown..........................................................Wichita St.
Marquette
St. John's
DePaul

......................................................................................................

That's the way things seemed to unfold, but it would be interesting to know how people who remember the story would put all the pieces together into a coherent narrative.

Questions:

1) Why did Marinatto resign?

It seems odd that he resigned, despite the fact that he had succeeded in bringing Temple, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and SMU into the Big East to replace the departing teams (WVU, Pitt and Syracuse), and that he had also put together a deal to bring Boise State and SDSU in as football members.

Was he mostly "overwhelmed and exasperated" by the disagreements between the "C7" basketball schools and the BE FB schools, or was it something else?


2) Why did Boise State and SDSU back out of their agreement to play FB in the Big East (aka the AAC)?

Was it because they lost interest after Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU joined the AAC, or was it for some other reason?

3) Why were Tulane, Tulsa, ECU (and Navy) invited to join the AAC, despite the fact that Boise State and SDSU had signed a deal to play FB in the Big East in Fall, 2013?

Boise and SDSU would have brought the number of AAC FB schools up to 10. There were some reports that they needed to have 12 teams to play a championship game without a NCAA waiver. Was that it?

4) Did the addition of these three schools have anything to do with the decision of the "C7" (Villanova, etc.) to separate from the Big East FB/AAC schools, or would they have left, regardless, and was there any way that the Big East could have been held together?

If it had, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis apparently would have been all-sports members, along with Cincy, UConn, USF and the C7 schools. Is that the correct list?

5) Who should get the lion's share of the credit for making it possible for the AAC to survive the realignment crisis and dissolution of the Big East that began ~2010/2011 and ended in 2014/15?

Putting all the pieces of the story back together, it seems like Marinatto almost had it all figured out, with 5 new full members and 2 FB members (Boise & SDSU), but then everything suddenly started to unravel again, maybe when WVU and TCU were invited to join the Big 12. Perhaps that's what overwhelmed and exasperated him - - or did he also get wind of the fact that Louisville and Rutgers were being contacted by the ACC and the Big Ten (?)

Then, whatever caused Marinatto to step down, Mike Aresco stepped in and had to add a few more FB schools to have a FB championship game according to the NCAA rules, and he brought in Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU, but then Boise and SDSU lost interest and backed out...followed by the decision of the C7 basketball schools to separate from the conference.

Is that how it happened?

If so, it seems that Marinatto carried the ball halfway to the goal line, and would have scored, but was prevented from scoring because the P5 conferences kept taking teams out of the Big East (first WVU & TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, and eventually, it lost Louisville & Rutgers). After all, the Big East only had 8 all-sports members, and it would end up losing 6 of the 8. Marinatto brought Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis aboard, which got him to 9 schools, and he had signed Navy, Boise, & SDSU (FB only) so that the conference could hold a championship game with 12 FB schools.

If that is the correct account of the events, then Mike Aresco's main contributions would have been (a) bringing Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU aboard to replace Louisville and Rutgers so the AAC would still have enough members to have a FB championship game; (b) working with the conference's team of lawyers to pull the AAC through as an all-sports conference after losing 6 of the 8 BE FB teams, Notre Dame, and the C7 basketball schools, © selling off the Big East name to the C7, (d) rebranding the conference as the "American Athletic Conference," (e) working out various interim broadcasting agreements, (f) sorting out and negotiating the various exit fee issues and their disbursements, (g) bringing Wichita State aboard, (h) putting together an ambitious "P6" strategic plan, (i) negotiating the still-new 12-year broadcasting package with ESPN, and (j) renegotiating the deal with ESPN after the departure of Connecticut.

That's a hefty job description. It seems the conference owes its continuing existence to the efforts of Commissioner Aresco, more than anyone else, but that none of this would have been possible if the former Commissioner Marinatto hadn't brought Temple, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and Navy on board to keep the FB side of the conference in business through the transition period.

do you have to try to hijack every damn thread on here? you almost make this site unreadable.

(02-07-2021 07:37 AM)dave108 Wrote:  do you

You are a responsible individual with the freedom to read or ignore whatever you want to. Because I am to, I will exercise the right to ignore you, and I invite you to ignore me, going forward. If you need help finding the "ignore" button, just click on the posters name and you'll find it on their home page.

.
Speaking of "hijacking," I'm not going to let you hijack my post.

These are the questions:


Questions:

1) Why did Marinatto resign?

It seems odd that he resigned, despite the fact that he had succeeded in bringing Temple, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and SMU into the Big East to replace the departing teams (WVU, Pitt and Syracuse), and that he had also put together a deal to bring Boise State and SDSU in as football members.

Was he mostly "overwhelmed and exasperated" by the disagreements between the "C7" basketball schools and the BE FB schools, or was it something else?


2) Why did Boise State and SDSU back out of their agreement to play FB in the Big East (aka the AAC)?

Was it because they lost interest after Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU joined the AAC, or was it for some other reason?

3) Why were Tulane, Tulsa, ECU (and Navy) invited to join the AAC, despite the fact that Boise State and SDSU had signed a deal to play FB in the Big East in Fall, 2013?

Boise and SDSU would have brought the number of AAC FB schools up to 10. There were some reports that they needed to have 12 teams to play a championship game without a NCAA waiver. Was that it?

4) Did the addition of these three schools have anything to do with the decision of the "C7" (Villanova, etc.) to separate from the Big East FB/AAC schools, or would they have left, regardless, and was there any way that the Big East could have been held together?

If it had, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis apparently would have been all-sports members, along with Cincy, UConn, USF and the C7 schools. Is that the correct list?

5) Who should get the lion's share of the credit for making it possible for the AAC to survive the realignment crisis and dissolution of the Big East that began ~2010/2011 and ended in 2014/15?

(02-07-2021 08:20 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  [quote='dave108' pid='17262463' dateline='1612701428']

do you

You are a responsible individual with the freedom to read or ignore whatever you want to. Because I am too, I will put you on the ignore list and invite you to do the same.

.
Speaking of "hijacking," I'm not going to let you hijack my post.

Interesting and informative thread.

There has been some discussion about the role that Commissioner Aresco played in helping to guide the conference from where it was as the Big East to where it became as the American Athletic Conference.

For example, this was recently posted on another thread:

Quote:Aresco wasn't in charge of the Big East when SMU and Houston were invited, he came later.

So I did a little investigating and found this:

Michael L. Aresco is an American college sports and (former) television executive. Aresco is the current commissioner of the American Athletic Conference (AAC/The American), a college athletics conference. He was the last commissioner of the old Big East Conference from August 14, 2012 to June 30, 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aresco

.

Noting that he took on the position of Big East Commissioner at a very critical time, I did a bit more investigating and found this article, which was published 3 months before Aresco was hired:

.

New York Times

By Pete Thamel May 7, 2012

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/sport...ioner.html

"When Big East Commissioner John Marinatto resigned Monday, the battered league was left at another crossroads. It could either crumble or find itself a billion-dollar television deal in September.

The Big East, scheduled to have 13 Football Bowl Subdivision programs and 18 basketball universities, now has a gypsy’s soul, with Kardashian commitment issues and a future so unstable that its pool of candidates will not be filled with polished clones like Pacific-12 Commissioner Larry Scott.

Marinatto’s departure comes after less than three years, a period defined by the exits of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia — and Texas Christian, which left for the Big 12 before ever playing a game. Marinatto was overwhelmed and exasperated by the tumult, and the difficulty of the job may be appreciated only by the next brave soul who signs up. "

.

This left me with the impression that the new Commissioner had played a key role in bringing aboard all the schools needed to replace Pitt, Syracuse, etc. (such as Houston and SMU), since they didn't begin playing into the AAC until 2013 or 2014.

However, then I found these reports, which made it clear that all but Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU had planned to join the "Big East" before Marinatto decided to resign as Commissioner:


December 7, 2011 SMU announces move to BIG EAST

SMU, Houston, UCF Become Full Members; Boise State, San Diego State Become Football Members

This was announced by Commissioner John Marinatto...

https://www.smu.edu/News/2011/big-east-a...-07dec2011

....and this:

Memphis accepts invite, joins Big East

Feb 8, 2012 ESPN.com news services

"It is an historic day for us," University of Memphis president Shirley Raines said during a teleconference with Big East commissioner John Marinatto and Memphis athletic director R.C. Johnson.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...n-big-east


...this:

(Temple) will compete in (Big East) football beginning with the 2012 season and become a full member in 2013-14

The Executive Committee of Temples Board of Trustees voted Wednesday morning to accept the Big Easts invitation.

Mar 7, 2012

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/n...ble-temple

....and this:

Tulane, East Carolina joining Big East
Nov 27, 2012

Brett McMurphyCollege football reporter

NOTE: This was announced a few months after Aresco became the AAC Commissioner.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...t-football

....then, there was this announcement:

Boise State Makes It Official, Pulling Out Of Big East Deal
JEFF OTTERBEIN December 31, 2012

The hits keep coming, not that they are unexpected. Boise State will not be playing football in the Big East next season.

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-hus...story.html

...and this:


SDSU Football Ditches Plan To Join Big East Conference

Wednesday, January 16, 2013

City News Service

San Diego State University ditched plans for its football team to join the Big East Conference and to shift most of its other sports to the Big West, deciding today to stick with the Mountain West Conference.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/16/sd...conferenc/


......................................................................................................

These teams were in the Big East/AAC (FB) in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014:

...2011*.............2012^..........2013^.............2014.............2015

Cincinnati............Cincy...........Cincy..............Cincy.............Cincy
Connecticut.........UConn..........UConn............UConn............UConn
Louisville.............Louisville......Louisville.........Tulane............Tulane
Pitt.....................Pitt..............Memphis.........Memphis.........Memphis
Rutgers...............Rutgers........Rutgers...........Tulsa.............Tulsa
USF....................USF.............USF.................USF...............USF
Syracuse.............Syracuse......Houston..........Houston..........Houston
West Virginia.......Temple........Temple...........Temple...........Temple
............................................SMU...............SMU...............SMU
............................................UCF................UCF...............UCF
..................................................................ECU..............ECU
.......................................................................................Navy

*These were the 8 BEC FB schools from 2005-2011.

^2012 was the Big East's final FB season; 2013 was the 1st AAC season.


Basketball:

Big East...........American Athletic Conference

2012-13..........2013-14..........2015-16.............//...........2017-18

Cincy................Cincy................Cincy
UConn..............UConn...............UConn
Pitt.................Houston.............Houston
Louisville.........Louisville............Tulane
Syracuse.........Memphis............Memphis
Rutgers............Rutgers...............Tulsa
USF...................USF...................USF
Notre Dame.......SMU..................SMU
Villanova.........Temple..............Temple
Seton Hall..........UCF...................UCF
Providence.................................ECU
Georgetown..........................................................Wichita St.
Marquette
St. John's
DePaul

......................................................................................................

That's the way things seemed to unfold, but it would be interesting to know how people who remember the story would put all the pieces together into a coherent narrative.

Questions:

1) Why did Marinatto resign?

It seems odd that he resigned, despite the fact that he had succeeded in bringing Temple, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and SMU into the Big East to replace the departing teams (WVU, Pitt and Syracuse), and that he had also put together a deal to bring Boise State and SDSU in as football members.

Was he mostly "overwhelmed and exasperated" by the disagreements between the "C7" basketball schools and the BE FB schools, or was it something else?


2) Why did Boise State and SDSU back out of their agreement to play FB in the Big East (aka the AAC)?

Was it because they lost interest after Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU joined the AAC, or was it for some other reason?

3) Why were Tulane, Tulsa, ECU (and Navy) invited to join the AAC, despite the fact that Boise State and SDSU had signed a deal to play FB in the Big East in Fall, 2013?

Boise and SDSU would have brought the number of AAC FB schools up to 10. There were some reports that they needed to have 12 teams to play a championship game without a NCAA waiver. Was that it?

4) Did the addition of these three schools have anything to do with the decision of the "C7" (Villanova, etc.) to separate from the Big East FB/AAC schools, or would they have left, regardless, and was there any way that the Big East could have been held together?

If it had, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis apparently would have been all-sports members, along with Cincy, UConn, USF and the C7 schools. Is that the correct list?

5) Who should get the lion's share of the credit for making it possible for the AAC to survive the realignment crisis and dissolution of the Big East that began ~2010/2011 and ended in 2014/15?

Putting all the pieces of the story back together, it seems like Marinatto almost had it all figured out, with 5 new full members and 2 FB members (Boise & SDSU), but then everything suddenly started to unravel again, maybe when WVU and TCU were invited to join the Big 12. Perhaps that's what overwhelmed and exasperated him - - or did he also get wind of the fact that Louisville and Rutgers were being contacted by the ACC and the Big Ten (?)

Then, whatever caused Marinatto to step down, Mike Aresco stepped in and had to add a few more FB schools to have a FB championship game according to the NCAA rules, and he brought in Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU, but then Boise and SDSU lost interest and backed out...followed by the decision of the C7 basketball schools to separate from the conference.

Is that how it happened?

If so, it seems that Marinatto carried the ball halfway to the goal line, and would have scored, but was prevented from scoring because the P5 conferences kept taking teams out of the Big East (first WVU & TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, and eventually, it lost Louisville & Rutgers). After all, the Big East only had 8 all-sports members, and it would end up losing 6 of the 8. Marinatto brought Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis aboard, which got him to 9 schools, and he had signed Navy, Boise, & SDSU (FB only) so that the conference could hold a championship game with 12 FB schools.

If that is the correct account of the events, then Mike Aresco's main contributions would have been (a) bringing Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU aboard to replace Louisville and Rutgers so the AAC would still have enough members to have a FB championship game; (b) working with the conference's team of lawyers to pull the AAC through as an all-sports conference after losing 6 of the 8 BE FB teams, Notre Dame, and the C7 basketball schools, © selling off the Big East name to the C7, (d) rebranding the conference as the "American Athletic Conference," (e) working out various interim broadcasting agreements, (f) sorting out and negotiating the various exit fee issues and their disbursements, (g) bringing Wichita State aboard, (h) putting together an ambitious "P6" strategic plan, (i) negotiating the still-new 12-year broadcasting package with ESPN, and (j) renegotiating the deal with ESPN after the departure of Connecticut.

That's a hefty job description. It seems the conference owes its continuing existence to the efforts of Commissioner Aresco, more than anyone else, but that none of this would have been possible if the former Commissioner Marinatto hadn't brought Temple, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and Navy on board to keep the FB side of the conference in business through the transition period.

(02-05-2021 05:04 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 03:35 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 05:55 PM)Starfox207 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 04:52 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 01:31 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Just an FYI, you missed West Virginia and Navy had committed before Aresco, otherwise you re spot on.

Yeah, thanks. Navy was signed, sealed, and delivered pre-Aresco.
For those who want all the details, here is a link to the transcript of the Feb 7, 2012 teleconference with commissioner Marinatto and all the USNA vips.
https://navysports.com/news/2012/2/7/tra..._2015.aspx

Thanks For this, this was incredible. Going back in time and reading niamatalos last paragraph on finding a home, the 10 mill exit fee, there is a hurricane coming etc. I am so glad to share a conference with you guys. Some is happening in a few years and we are on the right path and raft together

I'll risk sounding like a broken record here.
Navy didn't join the Big East (then an auto-qual BCS conference) for a few dollars. It was all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football.
That's why Navy is all in on the AAC strategic plan and P6 - all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football. That's why Gladchuk sometimes seemed like Aresco's BFF when the AAC's road was rocky.
Navy's been playing at the top level of college football for 140 years and continuing to do so directly supports the physical development mission for all 4000+ midshipmen.
(and yes, Gladchuk and Niumat talk about scheduling and bowl agreements getting harder in that 2011-2012 timeframe, but the strategic reason was laid out there almost a decade ago)

Hmmmm...why did Navy turn down the Big East for over 2 decades then? Curious as to why Army Navy didn’t take Temple and Rutgers places for the original Big East FB league that was being pit together in the late 80’s?

.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

(02-07-2021 03:44 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Interesting and informative thread.

There has been some discussion about the role that Commissioner Aresco played in helping to guide the conference from where it was as the Big East to where it became as the American Athletic Conference.

For example, this was recently posted on another thread:

Quote:Aresco wasn't in charge of the Big East when SMU and Houston were invited, he came later.

So I did a little investigating and found this:

Michael L. Aresco is an American college sports and (former) television executive. Aresco is the current commissioner of the American Athletic Conference (AAC/The American), a college athletics conference. He was the last commissioner of the old Big East Conference from August 14, 2012 to June 30, 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aresco

.

Noting that he took on the position of Big East Commissioner at a very critical time, I did a bit more investigating and found this article, which was published 3 months before Aresco was hired:

.

New York Times

By Pete Thamel May 7, 2012

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/sport...ioner.html

"When Big East Commissioner John Marinatto resigned Monday, the battered league was left at another crossroads. It could either crumble or find itself a billion-dollar television deal in September.

The Big East, scheduled to have 13 Football Bowl Subdivision programs and 18 basketball universities, now has a gypsy’s soul, with Kardashian commitment issues and a future so unstable that its pool of candidates will not be filled with polished clones like Pacific-12 Commissioner Larry Scott.

Marinatto’s departure comes after less than three years, a period defined by the exits of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia — and Texas Christian, which left for the Big 12 before ever playing a game. Marinatto was overwhelmed and exasperated by the tumult, and the difficulty of the job may be appreciated only by the next brave soul who signs up. "

.

This left me with the impression that the new Commissioner had played a key role in bringing aboard all the schools needed to replace Pitt, Syracuse, etc. (such as Houston and SMU), since they didn't begin playing into the AAC until 2013 or 2014.

However, then I found these reports, which made it clear that all but Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU had planned to join the "Big East" before Marinatto decided to resign as Commissioner:


December 7, 2011 SMU announces move to BIG EAST

SMU, Houston, UCF Become Full Members; Boise State, San Diego State Become Football Members

This was announced by Commissioner John Marinatto...

https://www.smu.edu/News/2011/big-east-a...-07dec2011

....and this:

Memphis accepts invite, joins Big East

Feb 8, 2012 ESPN.com news services

"It is an historic day for us," University of Memphis president Shirley Raines said during a teleconference with Big East commissioner John Marinatto and Memphis athletic director R.C. Johnson.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...n-big-east


...this:

(Temple) will compete in (Big East) football beginning with the 2012 season and become a full member in 2013-14

The Executive Committee of Temples Board of Trustees voted Wednesday morning to accept the Big Easts invitation.

Mar 7, 2012

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/n...ble-temple

....and this:

Tulane, East Carolina joining Big East
Nov 27, 2012

Brett McMurphyCollege football reporter

NOTE: This was announced a few months after Aresco became the AAC Commissioner.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...t-football

....then, there was this announcement:

Boise State Makes It Official, Pulling Out Of Big East Deal
JEFF OTTERBEIN December 31, 2012

The hits keep coming, not that they are unexpected. Boise State will not be playing football in the Big East next season.

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-hus...story.html

...and this:


SDSU Football Ditches Plan To Join Big East Conference

Wednesday, January 16, 2013

City News Service

San Diego State University ditched plans for its football team to join the Big East Conference and to shift most of its other sports to the Big West, deciding today to stick with the Mountain West Conference.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/16/sd...conferenc/


......................................................................................................

These teams were in the Big East/AAC (FB) in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014:

...2011*.............2012^..........2013^.............2014.............2015

Cincinnati............Cincy...........Cincy..............Cincy.............Cincy
Connecticut.........UConn..........UConn............UConn............UConn
Louisville.............Louisville......Louisville.........Tulane............Tulane
Pitt.....................Pitt..............Memphis.........Memphis.........Memphis
Rutgers...............Rutgers........Rutgers...........Tulsa.............Tulsa
USF....................USF.............USF.................USF...............USF
Syracuse.............Syracuse......Houston..........Houston..........Houston
West Virginia.......Temple........Temple...........Temple...........Temple
............................................SMU...............SMU...............SMU
............................................UCF................UCF...............UCF
..................................................................ECU..............ECU
.......................................................................................Navy

*These were the 8 BEC FB schools from 2005-2011.

^2012 was the Big East's final FB season; 2013 was the 1st AAC season.


Basketball:

Big East...........American Athletic Conference

2012-13..........2013-14..........2015-16.............//...........2017-18

Cincy................Cincy................Cincy
UConn..............UConn...............UConn
Pitt.................Houston.............Houston
Louisville.........Louisville............Tulane
Syracuse.........Memphis............Memphis
Rutgers............Rutgers...............Tulsa
USF...................USF...................USF
Notre Dame.......SMU..................SMU
Villanova.........Temple..............Temple
Seton Hall..........UCF...................UCF
Providence.................................ECU
Georgetown..........................................................Wichita St.
Marquette
St. John's
DePaul

......................................................................................................

That's the way things seemed to unfold, but it would be interesting to know how people who remember the story would put all the pieces together into a coherent narrative.

Questions:

1) Why did Marinatto resign?

It seems odd that he resigned, despite the fact that he had succeeded in bringing Temple, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and SMU into the Big East to replace the departing teams (WVU, Pitt and Syracuse), and that he had also put together a deal to bring Boise State and SDSU in as football members.

Was he mostly "overwhelmed and exasperated" by the disagreements between the "C7" basketball schools and the BE FB schools, or was it something else?


2) Why did Boise State and SDSU back out of their agreement to play FB in the Big East (aka the AAC)?

Was it because they lost interest after Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU joined the AAC, or was it for some other reason?

3) Why were Tulane, Tulsa, ECU (and Navy) invited to join the AAC, despite the fact that Boise State and SDSU had signed a deal to play FB in the Big East in Fall, 2013?

Boise and SDSU would have brought the number of AAC FB schools up to 10. There were some reports that they needed to have 12 teams to play a championship game without a NCAA waiver. Was that it?

4) Did the addition of these three schools have anything to do with the decision of the "C7" (Villanova, etc.) to separate from the Big East FB/AAC schools, or would they have left, regardless, and was there any way that the Big East could have been held together?

If it had, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis apparently would have been all-sports members, along with Cincy, UConn, USF and the C7 schools. Is that the correct list?

5) Who should get the lion's share of the credit for making it possible for the AAC to survive the realignment crisis and dissolution of the Big East that began ~2010/2011 and ended in 2014/15?

Putting all the pieces of the story back together, it seems like Marinatto almost had it all figured out, with 5 new full members and 2 FB members (Boise & SDSU), but then everything suddenly started to unravel again, maybe when WVU and TCU were invited to join the Big 12. Perhaps that's what overwhelmed and exasperated him - - or did he also get wind of the fact that Louisville and Rutgers were being contacted by the ACC and the Big Ten (?)

Then, whatever caused Marinatto to step down, Mike Aresco stepped in and had to add a few more FB schools to have a FB championship game according to the NCAA rules, and he brought in Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU, but then Boise and SDSU lost interest and backed out...followed by the decision of the C7 basketball schools to separate from the conference.

Is that how it happened?

If so, it seems that Marinatto carried the ball halfway to the goal line, and would have scored, but was prevented from scoring because the P5 conferences kept taking teams out of the Big East (first WVU & TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, and eventually, it lost Louisville & Rutgers). After all, the Big East only had 8 all-sports members, and it would end up losing 6 of the 8. Marinatto brought Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis aboard, which got him to 9 schools, and he had signed Navy, Boise, & SDSU (FB only) so that the conference could hold a championship game with 12 FB schools.

If that is the correct account of the events, then Mike Aresco's main contributions would have been (a) bringing Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU aboard to replace Louisville and Rutgers so the AAC would still have enough members to have a FB championship game; (b) working with the conference's team of lawyers to pull the AAC through as an all-sports conference after losing 6 of the 8 BE FB teams, Notre Dame, and the C7 basketball schools, © selling off the Big East name to the C7, (d) rebranding the conference as the "American Athletic Conference," (e) working out various interim broadcasting agreements, (f) sorting out and negotiating the various exit fee issues and their disbursements, (g) bringing Wichita State aboard, (h) putting together an ambitious "P6" strategic plan, (i) negotiating the still-new 12-year broadcasting package with ESPN, and (j) renegotiating the deal with ESPN after the departure of Connecticut.

That's a hefty job description. It seems the conference owes its continuing existence to the efforts of Commissioner Aresco, more than anyone else, but that none of this would have been possible if the former Commissioner Marinatto hadn't brought Temple, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and Navy on board to keep the FB side of the conference in business through the transition period.

I am dropping this class. Was unaware of having to do this much reading.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

(02-07-2021 02:03 AM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 06:51 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 05:04 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-05-2021 03:35 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 05:55 PM)Starfox207 Wrote:  Thanks For this, this was incredible. Going back in time and reading niamatalos last paragraph on finding a home, the 10 mill exit fee, there is a hurricane coming etc. I am so glad to share a conference with you guys. Some is happening in a few years and we are on the right path and raft together

I'll risk sounding like a broken record here.
Navy didn't join the Big East (then an auto-qual BCS conference) for a few dollars. It was all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football.
That's why Navy is all in on the AAC strategic plan and P6 - all about the strategic goal of being on the right side of the coming big restructures in college football. That's why Gladchuk sometimes seemed like Aresco's BFF when the AAC's road was rocky.
Navy's been playing at the top level of college football for 140 years and continuing to do so directly supports the physical development mission for all 4000+ midshipmen.
(and yes, Gladchuk and Niumat talk about scheduling and bowl agreements getting harder in that 2011-2012 timeframe, but the strategic reason was laid out there almost a decade ago)

Hmmmm...why did Navy turn down the Big East for over 2 decades then? Curious as to why Army Navy didn’t take Temple and Rutgers places for the original Big East FB league that was being pit together in the late 80’s?

So the point is, in 2011, the leadership at Navy came to the conclusion that the strategic landscape of college football had changed such that it was time for Navy to change course.
You want to compare that decision context to the 1980s?

Just earlier to the strategic environment dictating that decision, Navy had already watched PLENTY of change - realignment up to that point, the rise of the BCS, conference championship games -- Army Navy had recently moved from the first to second Saturday of December to move away from competing with CCGs. And even ALL THAT change hadn't yet pushed Navy to eschew 130 years of independence (and a recent decade of pretty daggone successful independence)...but the coming sea change from the BCS to the CFP, even though the shape and form of the latter was not yet known, was the big event driving Navy to risk a lot in order to align with the "haves" and not be stranded with the "have-nots."

The 80s?
On one side of the ledger, it wasn't even close to the same strategic environment. The "haves" hadn't yet taken the leaps and bounds of separation from the "have-nots". Let me grab 1989...There were 18 bowl games that year. Notre Dame signed a six-year $30 million dollar deal with NBC. The Big10 and Pac10 were accurately named, and the SEC only had ten members as well. SWC and Big8 were going strong. Independent Navy had plenty of company - #1 Miami, #2 ND, #3 FSU, #15 Penn State, #17 Pitt, and #21 WVU (in other words, the Lambert Trophy was kind of a big deal).
But that's not to say Navy had delusions of grandeur - Navy played 3 DI-AA teams that year...and lost to the Citadel, JMU, and Delaware. But we won at UNC and at BC early in the year. Annapolis Capital Sports Editor Joe Gross (a supporter of Navy sports) wrote a column the week of Army-Navy suggesting that the two service academies should move down to DI-AA. Fortunately, Alton Grizzard '91 (RIP) and Frank Schenk '91 and the guys delivered one for the ages to stifle such talk. Suffice it to say, in addition to "moving up" in 1989 not being what it was in 2011, Navy wasn't moving up in that timeframe - hanging on to where we were was the challenge.

Fast Forward a few years...
In 2000-2001, Navy went 1-20. My 10-year reunion was a 70-7 beatdown from George O'Leary led Georgia Tech. We hired Chet Gladchuk as AD. Chet hired Paul Johnson. PJ's first year still made for a 3-30 three-year stretch, but then the tides turned.
We had already stopped playing multiple DI-AA teams in a year...but we also stopped playing a murderers' row. We figured out how to play Army, AF, ND, but also a national profile schedule which mixed should-wins, toss-ups, and long-shot games. And we started winning. And going to bowls from 2003 onward. There is some sustained stretch in that 2003-onward timeframe where Navy beat more BCS-AQ/CFP-"P5" teams than any other non-AQ/non-"P5" team, yes more than Boise.

So if the difference in the strategic environment was worlds apart from 1989 to 2011...the difference in Navy was universes apart from 1989 to 2011.

And now let's look again at what Chet and Coach Niumat were saying....we've done great since 2003 - bowls year after year, and selling tickets since we could start in October so that the bowls were at least a break-even proposition. Army Navy is on solid ground and delivering cash to support 33 varsity sports. But BECAUSE we've been successful, the BCS-AQ schools aren't answering Chet's calls so much. At that time we had bowls tied in for the next five years...but we have no idea what the next bowl cycle holds. And then you say that the BCS is going to move to a playoff and the whole college football world will change? Yup, then Navy takes stock and makes the call.

I don't know how you can think that there IS any comparison with all the years and all the decades before that point in time.

(sidebar- why does Army not make a similar decision? 1. They have that CUSA scar tissue. 2- they seem pretty happy to play two FCS teams more often than they play one. And somehow still say BS like "national champions of toughness". 3- remember all that Navy and BCS-AQ teams not answering calls from Annapolis? They're still taking calls from Highland Falls. 4- They obviously love them some Shreveport (Independence Bowl three times in six years versus Navy getting San Diego, Houston, Memphis, DC, Annapolis, Charlotte....) 5- They may just have a different strategic assessment. They may just think they'll be okay whatever comes. Navy didn't and took the decision we did)

I remember all these talking points when the BIG EAST first met with Navy about membership, I also remember the fact that Navy needed 5 years to fulfil it's schedule commitment.

We play Marshall in 2021 and 2023. Thats the last rescheduled schedule agreement from independent days. At the time we settled that we also cancelled two others - Minnesota and Iowa State iirc. A major reason we kept Marshall was the Jack Lengyel connection.

At the time Navy signed on, we had bowl deals out through 2016. The last two were the Military Bowl in '15 and the Armed Forces Bowl in '16. Both had wider tie ins with the Big East, so it was agreed they would be conference bids, but Navy if eligible.

(02-07-2021 08:32 AM)panama Wrote:  

(02-07-2021 03:44 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Interesting and informative thread.

There has been some discussion about the role that Commissioner Aresco played in helping to guide the conference from where it was as the Big East to where it became as the American Athletic Conference.

For example, this was recently posted on another thread:

Quote:Aresco wasn't in charge of the Big East when SMU and Houston were invited, he came later.

So I did a little investigating and found this:

Michael L. Aresco is an American college sports and (former) television executive. Aresco is the current commissioner of the American Athletic Conference (AAC/The American), a college athletics conference. He was the last commissioner of the old Big East Conference from August 14, 2012 to June 30, 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aresco

.

Noting that he took on the position of Big East Commissioner at a very critical time, I did a bit more investigating and found this article, which was published 3 months before Aresco was hired:

.

New York Times

By Pete Thamel May 7, 2012

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/sport...ioner.html

"When Big East Commissioner John Marinatto resigned Monday, the battered league was left at another crossroads. It could either crumble or find itself a billion-dollar television deal in September.

The Big East, scheduled to have 13 Football Bowl Subdivision programs and 18 basketball universities, now has a gypsy’s soul, with Kardashian commitment issues and a future so unstable that its pool of candidates will not be filled with polished clones like Pacific-12 Commissioner Larry Scott.

Marinatto’s departure comes after less than three years, a period defined by the exits of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia — and Texas Christian, which left for the Big 12 before ever playing a game. Marinatto was overwhelmed and exasperated by the tumult, and the difficulty of the job may be appreciated only by the next brave soul who signs up. "

.

This left me with the impression that the new Commissioner had played a key role in bringing aboard all the schools needed to replace Pitt, Syracuse, etc. (such as Houston and SMU), since they didn't begin playing into the AAC until 2013 or 2014.

However, then I found these reports, which made it clear that all but Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU had planned to join the "Big East" before Marinatto decided to resign as Commissioner:


December 7, 2011 SMU announces move to BIG EAST

SMU, Houston, UCF Become Full Members; Boise State, San Diego State Become Football Members

This was announced by Commissioner John Marinatto...

https://www.smu.edu/News/2011/big-east-a...-07dec2011

....and this:

Memphis accepts invite, joins Big East

Feb 8, 2012 ESPN.com news services

"It is an historic day for us," University of Memphis president Shirley Raines said during a teleconference with Big East commissioner John Marinatto and Memphis athletic director R.C. Johnson.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...n-big-east


...this:

(Temple) will compete in (Big East) football beginning with the 2012 season and become a full member in 2013-14

The Executive Committee of Temples Board of Trustees voted Wednesday morning to accept the Big Easts invitation.

Mar 7, 2012

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/n...ble-temple

....and this:

Tulane, East Carolina joining Big East
Nov 27, 2012

Brett McMurphyCollege football reporter

NOTE: This was announced a few months after Aresco became the AAC Commissioner.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...t-football

....then, there was this announcement:

Boise State Makes It Official, Pulling Out Of Big East Deal
JEFF OTTERBEIN December 31, 2012

The hits keep coming, not that they are unexpected. Boise State will not be playing football in the Big East next season.

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-hus...story.html

...and this:


SDSU Football Ditches Plan To Join Big East Conference

Wednesday, January 16, 2013

City News Service

San Diego State University ditched plans for its football team to join the Big East Conference and to shift most of its other sports to the Big West, deciding today to stick with the Mountain West Conference.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/16/sd...conferenc/


......................................................................................................

These teams were in the Big East/AAC (FB) in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014:

...2011*.............2012^..........2013^.............2014.............2015

Cincinnati............Cincy...........Cincy..............Cincy.............Cincy
Connecticut.........UConn..........UConn............UConn............UConn
Louisville.............Louisville......Louisville.........Tulane............Tulane
Pitt.....................Pitt..............Memphis.........Memphis.........Memphis
Rutgers...............Rutgers........Rutgers...........Tulsa.............Tulsa
USF....................USF.............USF.................USF...............USF
Syracuse.............Syracuse......Houston..........Houston..........Houston
West Virginia.......Temple........Temple...........Temple...........Temple
............................................SMU...............SMU...............SMU
............................................UCF................UCF...............UCF
..................................................................ECU..............ECU
.......................................................................................Navy

*These were the 8 BEC FB schools from 2005-2011.

^2012 was the Big East's final FB season; 2013 was the 1st AAC season.


Basketball:

Big East...........American Athletic Conference

2012-13..........2013-14..........2015-16.............//...........2017-18

Cincy................Cincy................Cincy
UConn..............UConn...............UConn
Pitt.................Houston.............Houston
Louisville.........Louisville............Tulane
Syracuse.........Memphis............Memphis
Rutgers............Rutgers...............Tulsa
USF...................USF...................USF
Notre Dame.......SMU..................SMU
Villanova.........Temple..............Temple
Seton Hall..........UCF...................UCF
Providence.................................ECU
Georgetown..........................................................Wichita St.
Marquette
St. John's
DePaul

......................................................................................................

That's the way things seemed to unfold, but it would be interesting to know how people who remember the story would put all the pieces together into a coherent narrative.

Questions:

1) Why did Marinatto resign?

It seems odd that he resigned, despite the fact that he had succeeded in bringing Temple, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and SMU into the Big East to replace the departing teams (WVU, Pitt and Syracuse), and that he had also put together a deal to bring Boise State and SDSU in as football members.

Was he mostly "overwhelmed and exasperated" by the disagreements between the "C7" basketball schools and the BE FB schools, or was it something else?


2) Why did Boise State and SDSU back out of their agreement to play FB in the Big East (aka the AAC)?

Was it because they lost interest after Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU joined the AAC, or was it for some other reason?

3) Why were Tulane, Tulsa, ECU (and Navy) invited to join the AAC, despite the fact that Boise State and SDSU had signed a deal to play FB in the Big East in Fall, 2013?

Boise and SDSU would have brought the number of AAC FB schools up to 10. There were some reports that they needed to have 12 teams to play a championship game without a NCAA waiver. Was that it?

4) Did the addition of these three schools have anything to do with the decision of the "C7" (Villanova, etc.) to separate from the Big East FB/AAC schools, or would they have left, regardless, and was there any way that the Big East could have been held together?

If it had, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis apparently would have been all-sports members, along with Cincy, UConn, USF and the C7 schools. Is that the correct list?

5) Who should get the lion's share of the credit for making it possible for the AAC to survive the realignment crisis and dissolution of the Big East that began ~2010/2011 and ended in 2014/15?

Putting all the pieces of the story back together, it seems like Marinatto almost had it all figured out, with 5 new full members and 2 FB members (Boise & SDSU), but then everything suddenly started to unravel again, maybe when WVU and TCU were invited to join the Big 12. Perhaps that's what overwhelmed and exasperated him - - or did he also get wind of the fact that Louisville and Rutgers were being contacted by the ACC and the Big Ten (?)

Then, whatever caused Marinatto to step down, Mike Aresco stepped in and had to add a few more FB schools to have a FB championship game according to the NCAA rules, and he brought in Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU, but then Boise and SDSU lost interest and backed out...followed by the decision of the C7 basketball schools to separate from the conference.

Is that how it happened?

If so, it seems that Marinatto carried the ball halfway to the goal line, and would have scored, but was prevented from scoring because the P5 conferences kept taking teams out of the Big East (first WVU & TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, and eventually, it lost Louisville & Rutgers). After all, the Big East only had 8 all-sports members, and it would end up losing 6 of the 8. Marinatto brought Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis aboard, which got him to 9 schools, and he had signed Navy, Boise, & SDSU (FB only) so that the conference could hold a championship game with 12 FB schools.

If that is the correct account of the events, then Mike Aresco's main contributions would have been (a) bringing Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU aboard to replace Louisville and Rutgers so the AAC would still have enough members to have a FB championship game; (b) working with the conference's team of lawyers to pull the AAC through as an all-sports conference after losing 6 of the 8 BE FB teams, Notre Dame, and the C7 basketball schools, © selling off the Big East name to the C7, (d) rebranding the conference as the "American Athletic Conference," (e) working out various interim broadcasting agreements, (f) sorting out and negotiating the various exit fee issues and their disbursements, (g) bringing Wichita State aboard, (h) putting together an ambitious "P6" strategic plan, (i) negotiating the still-new 12-year broadcasting package with ESPN, and (j) renegotiating the deal with ESPN after the departure of Connecticut.

That's a hefty job description. It seems the conference owes its continuing existence to the efforts of Commissioner Aresco, more than anyone else, but that none of this would have been possible if the former Commissioner Marinatto hadn't brought Temple, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and Navy on board to keep the FB side of the conference in business through the transition period.

I am dropping this class. Was unaware of having to do this much reading.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

that's the point - this idiot makes a quick look / review of the threads impossible, since they're all so clogged up with his ridiculous novels. the mods should have a thread for us normal people, and then a thread for "jed", whoever he is. it could be called the "special" version of everything - if you click on it, you know that you better have a couple of hours to spend trying to figure it out. oh, and, also a pad of oversized paper, so you can try to chart out whatever the hell it is he's going on about.

Is all of this relevant to what is the reality today?

I had to go with this link...

BIG XII: https://www.cougarboard.com/board/messag...d=14046879

Conferences need to have a minimum of 12 football playing members, with divisions, to play a Conference Championship Game... That is until the BIG XII: couldn't get to 12 members to have a Conference Championship Game, after the 2013 season.

NCAA changed the rule to allow the BIG XII to play its Conference Championship Game with 10 members, this also affected the Sun Belt Conference.

BIG XII chose to play a 9 game round robin Conference schedule to determined its championship game, while later the Sun Belt decided to use 5 member divisions to determine its championship game,

I'm gonna take a lunch break run. Anyone hungry?

(02-07-2021 01:39 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  I'm gonna take a lunch break run. Anyone hungry?

Waiting on Jed to post the menu...and daily specials.

(02-07-2021 07:37 AM)dave108 Wrote:  

(02-07-2021 03:44 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Interesting and informative thread.

There has been some discussion about the role that Commissioner Aresco played in helping to guide the conference from where it was as the Big East to where it became as the American Athletic Conference.

For example, this was recently posted on another thread:

Quote:Aresco wasn't in charge of the Big East when SMU and Houston were invited, he came later.

So I did a little investigating and found this:

Michael L. Aresco is an American college sports and (former) television executive. Aresco is the current commissioner of the American Athletic Conference (AAC/The American), a college athletics conference. He was the last commissioner of the old Big East Conference from August 14, 2012 to June 30, 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aresco

.

Noting that he took on the position of Big East Commissioner at a very critical time, I did a bit more investigating and found this article, which was published 3 months before Aresco was hired:

.

New York Times

By Pete Thamel May 7, 2012

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/sport...ioner.html

"When Big East Commissioner John Marinatto resigned Monday, the battered league was left at another crossroads. It could either crumble or find itself a billion-dollar television deal in September.

The Big East, scheduled to have 13 Football Bowl Subdivision programs and 18 basketball universities, now has a gypsy’s soul, with Kardashian commitment issues and a future so unstable that its pool of candidates will not be filled with polished clones like Pacific-12 Commissioner Larry Scott.

Marinatto’s departure comes after less than three years, a period defined by the exits of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia — and Texas Christian, which left for the Big 12 before ever playing a game. Marinatto was overwhelmed and exasperated by the tumult, and the difficulty of the job may be appreciated only by the next brave soul who signs up. "

.

This left me with the impression that the new Commissioner had played a key role in bringing aboard all the schools needed to replace Pitt, Syracuse, etc. (such as Houston and SMU), since they didn't begin playing into the AAC until 2013 or 2014.

However, then I found these reports, which made it clear that all but Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU had planned to join the "Big East" before Marinatto decided to resign as Commissioner:


December 7, 2011 SMU announces move to BIG EAST

SMU, Houston, UCF Become Full Members; Boise State, San Diego State Become Football Members

This was announced by Commissioner John Marinatto...

https://www.smu.edu/News/2011/big-east-a...-07dec2011

....and this:

Memphis accepts invite, joins Big East

Feb 8, 2012 ESPN.com news services

"It is an historic day for us," University of Memphis president Shirley Raines said during a teleconference with Big East commissioner John Marinatto and Memphis athletic director R.C. Johnson.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...n-big-east


...this:

(Temple) will compete in (Big East) football beginning with the 2012 season and become a full member in 2013-14

The Executive Committee of Temples Board of Trustees voted Wednesday morning to accept the Big Easts invitation.

Mar 7, 2012

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/n...ble-temple

....and this:

Tulane, East Carolina joining Big East
Nov 27, 2012

Brett McMurphyCollege football reporter

NOTE: This was announced a few months after Aresco became the AAC Commissioner.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...t-football

....then, there was this announcement:

Boise State Makes It Official, Pulling Out Of Big East Deal
JEFF OTTERBEIN December 31, 2012

The hits keep coming, not that they are unexpected. Boise State will not be playing football in the Big East next season.

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-hus...story.html

...and this:


SDSU Football Ditches Plan To Join Big East Conference

Wednesday, January 16, 2013

City News Service

San Diego State University ditched plans for its football team to join the Big East Conference and to shift most of its other sports to the Big West, deciding today to stick with the Mountain West Conference.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jan/16/sd...conferenc/


......................................................................................................

These teams were in the Big East/AAC (FB) in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014:

...2011*.............2012^..........2013^.............2014.............2015

Cincinnati............Cincy...........Cincy..............Cincy.............Cincy
Connecticut.........UConn..........UConn............UConn............UConn
Louisville.............Louisville......Louisville.........Tulane............Tulane
Pitt.....................Pitt..............Memphis.........Memphis.........Memphis
Rutgers...............Rutgers........Rutgers...........Tulsa.............Tulsa
USF....................USF.............USF.................USF...............USF
Syracuse.............Syracuse......Houston..........Houston..........Houston
West Virginia.......Temple........Temple...........Temple...........Temple
............................................SMU...............SMU...............SMU
............................................UCF................UCF...............UCF
..................................................................ECU..............ECU
.......................................................................................Navy

*These were the 8 BEC FB schools from 2005-2011.

^2012 was the Big East's final FB season; 2013 was the 1st AAC season.


Basketball:

Big East...........American Athletic Conference

2012-13..........2013-14..........2015-16.............//...........2017-18

Cincy................Cincy................Cincy
UConn..............UConn...............UConn
Pitt.................Houston.............Houston
Louisville.........Louisville............Tulane
Syracuse.........Memphis............Memphis
Rutgers............Rutgers...............Tulsa
USF...................USF...................USF
Notre Dame.......SMU..................SMU
Villanova.........Temple..............Temple
Seton Hall..........UCF...................UCF
Providence.................................ECU
Georgetown..........................................................Wichita St.
Marquette
St. John's
DePaul

......................................................................................................

That's the way things seemed to unfold, but it would be interesting to know how people who remember the story would put all the pieces together into a coherent narrative.

Questions:

1) Why did Marinatto resign?

It seems odd that he resigned, despite the fact that he had succeeded in bringing Temple, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and SMU into the Big East to replace the departing teams (WVU, Pitt and Syracuse), and that he had also put together a deal to bring Boise State and SDSU in as football members.

Was he mostly "overwhelmed and exasperated" by the disagreements between the "C7" basketball schools and the BE FB schools, or was it something else?


2) Why did Boise State and SDSU back out of their agreement to play FB in the Big East (aka the AAC)?

Was it because they lost interest after Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU joined the AAC, or was it for some other reason?

3) Why were Tulane, Tulsa, ECU (and Navy) invited to join the AAC, despite the fact that Boise State and SDSU had signed a deal to play FB in the Big East in Fall, 2013?

Boise and SDSU would have brought the number of AAC FB schools up to 10. There were some reports that they needed to have 12 teams to play a championship game without a NCAA waiver. Was that it?

4) Did the addition of these three schools have anything to do with the decision of the "C7" (Villanova, etc.) to separate from the Big East FB/AAC schools, or would they have left, regardless, and was there any way that the Big East could have been held together?

If it had, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis apparently would have been all-sports members, along with Cincy, UConn, USF and the C7 schools. Is that the correct list?

5) Who should get the lion's share of the credit for making it possible for the AAC to survive the realignment crisis and dissolution of the Big East that began ~2010/2011 and ended in 2014/15?

Putting all the pieces of the story back together, it seems like Marinatto almost had it all figured out, with 5 new full members and 2 FB members (Boise & SDSU), but then everything suddenly started to unravel again, maybe when WVU and TCU were invited to join the Big 12. Perhaps that's what overwhelmed and exasperated him - - or did he also get wind of the fact that Louisville and Rutgers were being contacted by the ACC and the Big Ten (?)

Then, whatever caused Marinatto to step down, Mike Aresco stepped in and had to add a few more FB schools to have a FB championship game according to the NCAA rules, and he brought in Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU, but then Boise and SDSU lost interest and backed out...followed by the decision of the C7 basketball schools to separate from the conference.

Is that how it happened?

If so, it seems that Marinatto carried the ball halfway to the goal line, and would have scored, but was prevented from scoring because the P5 conferences kept taking teams out of the Big East (first WVU & TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, and eventually, it lost Louisville & Rutgers). After all, the Big East only had 8 all-sports members, and it would end up losing 6 of the 8. Marinatto brought Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis aboard, which got him to 9 schools, and he had signed Navy, Boise, & SDSU (FB only) so that the conference could hold a championship game with 12 FB schools.

If that is the correct account of the events, then Mike Aresco's main contributions would have been (a) bringing Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU aboard to replace Louisville and Rutgers so the AAC would still have enough members to have a FB championship game; (b) working with the conference's team of lawyers to pull the AAC through as an all-sports conference after losing 6 of the 8 BE FB teams, Notre Dame, and the C7 basketball schools, © selling off the Big East name to the C7, (d) rebranding the conference as the "American Athletic Conference," (e) working out various interim broadcasting agreements, (f) sorting out and negotiating the various exit fee issues and their disbursements, (g) bringing Wichita State aboard, (h) putting together an ambitious "P6" strategic plan, (i) negotiating the still-new 12-year broadcasting package with ESPN, and (j) renegotiating the deal with ESPN after the departure of Connecticut.

That's a hefty job description. It seems the conference owes its continuing existence to the efforts of Commissioner Aresco, more than anyone else, but that none of this would have been possible if the former Commissioner Marinatto hadn't brought Temple, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and Navy on board to keep the FB side of the conference in business through the transition period.

do you have to try to hijack every damn thread on here? you almost make this site unreadable.

yes

Whether AAC fans want to admit it or not, John Marinatto is the one who deserves the credit for getting the AAC where it is today and Mike Aresco got to ride coat tails and steal all the credit.

Marinatto was handed a no-win scenario of having a non-football faction feuding with a football faction in an environment where a lot of his football schools could make way more money by leaving.

He worked his tail off to line up replacements to try and keep the ship afloat. Pitt, Cuse, WVU, TCU, etc didn’t leave because of Marinatto, they left because of the fiscal reality of the situation and the obstacle that the basketball faction presented.

It was a thankless job and the man felt unappreciated

(02-07-2021 10:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Whether AAC fans want to admit it or not, John Marinatto is the one who deserves the credit for getting the AAC where it is today and Mike Aresco got to ride coat tails and steal all the credit.

Marinatto was handed a no-win scenario of having a non-football faction feuding with a football faction in an environment where a lot of his football schools could make way more money by leaving.

He worked his tail off to line up replacements to try and keep the ship afloat. Pitt, Cuse, WVU, TCU, etc didn’t leave because of Marinatto, they left because of the fiscal reality of the situation and the obstacle that the basketball faction presented.

It was a thankless job and the man felt unappreciated

Meatball? Get out of here with that ****.