(01-31-2021 12:23 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  If EVs and solar and wind power are such a good and efficient form of electricity and therefore a good investment, then why do they ALL require government financial incentive to sell them? The market would gravitate towards those industries anyways if there was money to be made from them. We all know they cost more than they are worth.

Economics is not a strong suit of environmental moonbats.

(01-31-2021 12:49 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(01-31-2021 12:16 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  You do understand where the electricity for electric powered vehicles comes from? Hint: not black magic.

Another myth that isn't true.

The electricity that charges and fuels battery electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles comes from power grids, which rely on a range of sources — from fossil fuels to clean renewable energy.

Energy grids can vary from one state to another, which means that the carbon footprint of driving an electric vehicle ranges depending on the source of its electricity.

Yes, a portion of the electricity in this country will continue to be generated by the burning of fossil fuels. But because electric vehicles are more efficient in converting energy to power cars and trucks, electricity across the board is cleaner and cheaper as a fuel for vehicles, even when that electricity comes from the dirtiest grid.

Running electric or hybrid cars on the grid in any state has lower greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline-powered cars, as revealed in a study by experts at the Union of Concerned Scientists. And as states clean up their energy grids, the benefits of electric vehicles become stronger.

(source - earthjustice.org)

I do agree with the other poster that it's not been proven yet how reliable and long lasting electric cars/vans can/will be. At the very least, a post office electric vehicle will have to have its electric battery replaced quite often. As I said earlier, current post office LLV's (the main vehicle you see USPS folks driving) are pretty much all from the early 1990's. You can conservatively estimate that they all have been driven 200-300K miles at a minimum. That's a lot of electric car batteries.

It's time to invest in the companies that make batteries. That's where the money will be. Everyone that has an electric contraption knows that batteries even when continually charged have a very short working life, for example your portable electric power generators that have a few optional uses. They're great while they hold a charge but are totally useless and trash can material when they can't hold that charge and it happens very quickly. Your battery powered tools is another and those batteries are almost as expensive as the tool itself.

I'm buying into Battery manufacturing, pronto. This is like the govmint going after ammo buyers and making it harder to get it the tool itself, i.e., guns, rifles become static displays. Same thing with battery operated contraptions.

(01-31-2021 01:20 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-31-2021 12:13 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I really can't think of a negative from the post office going all electric, other than the government would be paying for most of it. But the old LLVs have lasted 30-years plus. If new electric vehicles are anywhere close to that, the money would be well spent.

The batteries will have to be replaced at least every couple of years given the demands of a USPS vehicle. They are expensive, and dirty to dispose of. For a Chevy Bolt, it costs $15K for the batteries, and that doesnt include labor to replace them.

The last thing the USPS should be doing is entering into a long term money pit, considering the amount of money they are already losing.

Well Schiff, why not invest in battery fueled trucks for an already money losing entity like our wonderful USPS.

And throw in the fact, EV mandates like California, will only further expand the gap between the haves and have nots.



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(01-30-2021 11:36 PM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  Relies on Buying EVs That No One Makes

Quote:President Joe Biden has ordered the federal government to buy electric vehicles made in America with union labor. There’s just one problem: No such vehicles exist.

Tesla Inc., the leading U.S. electric vehicle manufacturer, has several American-made models, but it isn’t unionized. And while General Motors Co. employs union labor to make the electric Chevrolet Bolt, roughly three-quarters of its components come from outside the U.S. -- missing the 50% threshold to be considered American-made under federal procurement law.

Where would this vehicles be recharged? Charging stations are NOT widely available in most cities. How would government employees charge these vehicles if they were on a long trip?

I think there is a place for EVs but there needs to be a significant investment in power grids and infrastructure to handle the amount of cars and trucks being discussed. Without it, you're creating multiple problems with huge unintended consequences.

And the vast vast majority of power for charging these vehicles will still come from fossil fuels.

As much as Sniff and the tree huggers want to deny it, electric cars are way too far out to be of any use in fully replacing gasoline cars and the cost/logistics will take decades.

1. The power grid cannot handle the current state now. California is a prime example where they have to implement rolling blackouts and have to shut down parts of the grid when the winds get too strong and might down the power lines. Where I live in Florida is another example. It's a small town with an antiquated power grid. They're trying to upgrade it, but the cost is quite high for the number of residents and it will take several years just to provide reliable electricity. To add capacity for electric cars on a widespread scale would result in astronomical costs. Factor in the cost of local rewiring so houses and businesses can be retrofitted.
2. Along with the power grid, where will this new energy come from? Pixie dust and mouse farts? The technology from solar, hydro, and wind is not yet sufficient to provide the needs, not to mention it's not an entirely "green" option anyway. And again, the costs to convert to this will be quite high as well, in addition to upgrading the power grid.
3. Electric cars aren't even close to being practical for widespread use. They're great for the suburbanite and urbanite that drive 100 miles here and there at most, but beyond that it's not fully practical. Yes, the range isn't improving but until they can get 400-500 miles consistently AND be able to fully recharge within 15 minute or so they're not practical. For example, if I want to drive to the Keys or New Orleans for a getaway, no problem. I drive until I need to stop for gas, then 15 minutes later I'm back on the road. That isn't practical with the current EVs on the market. What about commercial vehicles? There's a reason you don't see cops driving Teslas, ambulances being run on electric, city buses going "green", etc.
4. What sort of contingency plans are there for power outages? A good portion of the US lives in a hurricane zone. Power can easily be knocked out for days or even weeks at a time. Even evacuations prior to a major storm result in huge lines of evacuees on the roads barely moving for hours. Would a tree hugger care to explain to me how this would work? Would people need to bring along a few extra D batteries to keep their cars running? With gasoline powered cars, you have the luxury of being able to store extra fuel for this contingency.

(02-01-2021 03:43 PM)No2rdame Wrote:  As much as Sniff and the tree huggers want to deny it, electric cars are way too far out to be of any use in fully replacing gasoline cars and the cost/logistics will take decades.

1. The power grid cannot handle the current state now. California is a prime example where they have to implement rolling blackouts and have to shut down parts of the grid when the winds get too strong and might down the power lines. Where I live in Florida is another example. It's a small town with an antiquated power grid. They're trying to upgrade it, but the cost is quite high for the number of residents and it will take several years just to provide reliable electricity. To add capacity for electric cars on a widespread scale would result in astronomical costs. Factor in the cost of local rewiring so houses and businesses can be retrofitted.
2. Along with the power grid, where will this new energy come from? Pixie dust and mouse farts? The technology from solar, hydro, and wind is not yet sufficient to provide the needs, not to mention it's not an entirely "green" option anyway. And again, the costs to convert to this will be quite high as well, in addition to upgrading the power grid.
3. Electric cars aren't even close to being practical for widespread use. They're great for the suburbanite and urbanite that drive 100 miles here and there at most, but beyond that it's not fully practical. Yes, the range isn't improving but until they can get 400-500 miles consistently AND be able to fully recharge within 15 minute or so they're not practical. For example, if I want to drive to the Keys or New Orleans for a getaway, no problem. I drive until I need to stop for gas, then 15 minutes later I'm back on the road. That isn't practical with the current EVs on the market. What about commercial vehicles? There's a reason you don't see cops driving Teslas, ambulances being run on electric, city buses going "green", etc.
4. What sort of contingency plans are there for power outages? A good portion of the US lives in a hurricane zone. Power can easily be knocked out for days or even weeks at a time. Even evacuations prior to a major storm result in huge lines of evacuees on the roads barely moving for hours. Would a tree hugger care to explain to me how this would work? Would people need to bring along a few extra D batteries to keep their cars running? With gasoline powered cars, you have the luxury of being able to store extra fuel for this contingency.

Logic has no place in this conversation.

(01-31-2021 12:49 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(01-31-2021 12:16 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  You do understand where the electricity for electric powered vehicles comes from? Hint: not black magic.

Another myth that isn't true.

The electricity that charges and fuels battery electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles comes from power grids, which rely on a range of sources — from fossil fuels to clean renewable energy.

Energy grids can vary from one state to another, which means that the carbon footprint of driving an electric vehicle ranges depending on the source of its electricity.

Yes, a portion of the electricity in this country will continue to be generated by the burning of fossil fuels. But because electric vehicles are more efficient in converting energy to power cars and trucks, electricity across the board is cleaner and cheaper as a fuel for vehicles, even when that electricity comes from the dirtiest grid.

Running electric or hybrid cars on the grid in any state has lower greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline-powered cars, as revealed in a study by experts at the Union of Concerned Scientists. And as states clean up their energy grids, the benefits of electric vehicles become stronger.

(source - earthjustice.org)

I do agree with the other poster that it's not been proven yet how reliable and long lasting electric cars/vans can/will be. At the very least, a post office electric vehicle will have to have its electric battery replaced quite often. As I said earlier, current post office LLV's (the main vehicle you see USPS folks driving) are pretty much all from the early 1990's. You can conservatively estimate that they all have been driven 200-300K miles at a minimum. That's a lot of electric car batteries.

63% of the electricity used in this country today comes from fossil fuels.

20% is from nuclear

6.6% is from hydropower

All things that you leftists hate. That leaves 10.4% that comes from "green" sources like wind turbines that use non-recyclable blades and solar panels that aren't easy to recycle and produce a bunch of toxic waste when disposed of.

(02-01-2021 04:10 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-31-2021 12:49 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(01-31-2021 12:16 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  You do understand where the electricity for electric powered vehicles comes from? Hint: not black magic.

Another myth that isn't true.

The electricity that charges and fuels battery electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles comes from power grids, which rely on a range of sources — from fossil fuels to clean renewable energy.

Energy grids can vary from one state to another, which means that the carbon footprint of driving an electric vehicle ranges depending on the source of its electricity.

Yes, a portion of the electricity in this country will continue to be generated by the burning of fossil fuels. But because electric vehicles are more efficient in converting energy to power cars and trucks, electricity across the board is cleaner and cheaper as a fuel for vehicles, even when that electricity comes from the dirtiest grid.

Running electric or hybrid cars on the grid in any state has lower greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline-powered cars, as revealed in a study by experts at the Union of Concerned Scientists. And as states clean up their energy grids, the benefits of electric vehicles become stronger.

(source - earthjustice.org)

I do agree with the other poster that it's not been proven yet how reliable and long lasting electric cars/vans can/will be. At the very least, a post office electric vehicle will have to have its electric battery replaced quite often. As I said earlier, current post office LLV's (the main vehicle you see USPS folks driving) are pretty much all from the early 1990's. You can conservatively estimate that they all have been driven 200-300K miles at a minimum. That's a lot of electric car batteries.

63% of the electricity used in this country today comes from fossil fuels.

20% is from nuclear

6.6% is from hydropower

All things that you leftists hate. That leaves 10.4% that comes from "green" sources like wind turbines that use non-recyclable blades and solar panels that aren't easy to recycle and produce a bunch of toxic waste when disposed of.

Don't you know that facts have no place in leftists arguments?

(02-01-2021 04:10 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-31-2021 12:49 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(01-31-2021 12:16 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  You do understand where the electricity for electric powered vehicles comes from? Hint: not black magic.

Another myth that isn't true.

The electricity that charges and fuels battery electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles comes from power grids, which rely on a range of sources — from fossil fuels to clean renewable energy.

Energy grids can vary from one state to another, which means that the carbon footprint of driving an electric vehicle ranges depending on the source of its electricity.

Yes, a portion of the electricity in this country will continue to be generated by the burning of fossil fuels. But because electric vehicles are more efficient in converting energy to power cars and trucks, electricity across the board is cleaner and cheaper as a fuel for vehicles, even when that electricity comes from the dirtiest grid.

Running electric or hybrid cars on the grid in any state has lower greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline-powered cars, as revealed in a study by experts at the Union of Concerned Scientists. And as states clean up their energy grids, the benefits of electric vehicles become stronger.

(source - earthjustice.org)

I do agree with the other poster that it's not been proven yet how reliable and long lasting electric cars/vans can/will be. At the very least, a post office electric vehicle will have to have its electric battery replaced quite often. As I said earlier, current post office LLV's (the main vehicle you see USPS folks driving) are pretty much all from the early 1990's. You can conservatively estimate that they all have been driven 200-300K miles at a minimum. That's a lot of electric car batteries.

63% of the electricity used in this country today comes from fossil fuels.

20% is from nuclear

6.6% is from hydropower

All things that you leftists hate. That leaves 10.4% that comes from "green" sources like wind turbines that use non-recyclable blades and solar panels that aren't easy to recycle and produce a bunch of toxic waste when disposed of.

It makes them all warm and fuzzy inside though

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