Enjoyed reading these 3 pages, team. It's probably more on me, but I feel I can finally read political discourse without getting angry... or maybe everyone here has just upped their civility game.

It's almost ironic, because Trump is one of the most peace-loving politicians there is. While he certainly wished someone would do something to help him steal the election back (notably: Pence) and perhaps wouldn't have minded if it came via the crowd's actions, I think he was ultimately aggrieved when he saw what his followers did. In theory being in power is worth the coup to obtain it, for Trump, but when he saw the physical violence involved I think he, inside, finally conceded.

Hopefully his rhetoric moves beyond election fraud. He has a loyal following and can help push them (and politicians) to a better path forward. However, one of his main tools has been demonizing the left. It is a shame that both sides are content to use the cudgel rather than the ear. Can he (or politics in general) evolve?

The best thing that can happen for President Trump is for him to leave office. Private-citizen Trump will be in a position to point to his remarkable record of achievement. Unlike any other president since Reagan, President Trump delivered on most all of his promises. And he did so in the face of a lying press, a totally corrupt predecessor and an opposition party willing to lie and cheat to stop him. When history is written, if soon-to-be-ex-President Trump will allow it to be written, he will be remembered as a great president.

But his time in office is done. That’s not a good thing. The Biden/Harris administration will be a disaster for America. Yet it is a necessary thing. There are plenty of bad actors to blame for the lost 2020 election. The worst of them all was President Trump himself.

Whether you consider it fair or not, he is the one who squandered a winnable election - - his first debate with Joe Biden is illustrative of the overall disaster of his campaign efforts. He then allowed his last weeks in office to be defined by inept lawyers promising uncontrovertible evidence of election fraud, yet coming up with only unprovable suspicions; by a winnable run-off election for control of the Senate, that was lost because he insisted on making it about himself; by him publicly castigating his most loyal team members; and by a rally that (whether intentionally or not) resulted in the ransacking of our capitol and pictures of his supporters throwing fire extinguishers at the heads of cops. All of that is on him.

America will not unite for Joe Biden. It will come to despise Kamala Harris. But that cannot happen for so long as President Trump continues to offer himself up as the model of bad political behavior.

If you are a committed Trumpist, you may not care. If you are an American, you should.

(01-15-2021 03:19 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 05:01 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 03:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:11 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  99% of the protesters were peaceful. It was a tiny percentage who were not and there is no excusing their behavior no matter if they were antifa or Trump supporters.

But the fact remains that its a total lie that Trump induced a riot.

He was very specific that he was asking for a peaceful protest.

-He lied to them for 2 months about voter fraud that he could never prove.
-He invited them (via Twitter) to DC on January 6th.
-He and others riled up the crowd with incendiary words.
-The rioters who committed crimes specifically said that they were doing it because DJT told them to.

I'm sure that a court will sort it out but he's probably got some liability.

The proof was watching observers be removed from counting rooms in violation of the law.

Democratic election officials committed crimes to prevent people from watching.

You can continue to deny, but everyone knows you're wrong.

And everybody knows the Dems cheated.

"everyone". You have no proof. Plus, ask any project manager how difficult it is to get that many people coordinated.

Do I believe that the election was crooked in certain key swing states in certain large cities.....yes I do.

With that said, the real tragedy is that there are millions of people that believe the same thing, and those that were running the election counting in those key places have almost universally thrown up roadblocks to in-depth audits. Answering questions as to why counting was stopped, then resumed in the middle of the night with no one watching.

Instead of bending over backwards and being transparent.....they’ve acted as though the fix was in.

No one will ever really know the level illegal ballot counting that took place it would seem at this point - but nearly half of America believes that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it’s a duck. The other side could care less about optics so long as it’s the result they want (per Alinsky the ends justify whatever means)

Without election integrity, you have a banana republic, and that’s where we are.

People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything. It's all a lie pushed by the POTUS because he mentally can deal with losing.

(01-16-2021 08:20 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything.

Actually, they've found quite a bit suggesting very strongly that there were massive improprieties. What they haven't found, because you really can't find it after the fact, is evidence sufficient to remove ballots from the box. Once ballots get into the box, it is virtually impossible to get them back out. For that reason, once you get away with vote fraud up front, you're basically good. Also for that reason, the lawsuits have all been wastes of time. Where the effort should have gone instead was to holding onto the Georgia senate seats and toward finding ways to clean up elections going forward.

(01-16-2021 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:20 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything.

Actually, they've found quite a bit suggesting very strongly that there were massive improprieties. What they haven't found, because you really can't find it after the fact, is evidence sufficient to remove ballots from the box. Once ballots get into the box, it is virtually impossible to get them back out. For that reason, once you get away with vote fraud up front, you're basically good. Also for that reason, the lawsuits have all been wastes of time. Where the effort should have gone instead was to holding onto the Georgia senate seats and toward finding ways to clean up elections going forward.

You are correct, but make no mistake, those on the left had zero interest in seeing if there were any fraud and mark my words - will have zero interest in election security. They do not want it made so that cheating can’t take place.

I can bring up many things such as voter ID, etc. that would help to assure that an election was fair.......Democrats have fought it all tooth and nail. They want it wide open and easy the cheat.

(01-16-2021 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:20 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything.

Actually, they've found quite a bit suggesting very strongly that there were massive improprieties. What they haven't found, because you really can't find it after the fact, is evidence sufficient to remove ballots from the box. Once ballots get into the box, it is virtually impossible to get them back out. For that reason, once you get away with vote fraud up front, you're basically good. Also for that reason, the lawsuits have all been wastes of time. Where the effort should have gone instead was to holding onto the Georgia senate seats and toward finding ways to clean up elections going forward.

So nothing was proved. Next.

(01-16-2021 10:19 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:20 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything.

Actually, they've found quite a bit suggesting very strongly that there were massive improprieties. What they haven't found, because you really can't find it after the fact, is evidence sufficient to remove ballots from the box. Once ballots get into the box, it is virtually impossible to get them back out. For that reason, once you get away with vote fraud up front, you're basically good. Also for that reason, the lawsuits have all been wastes of time. Where the effort should have gone instead was to holding onto the Georgia senate seats and toward finding ways to clean up elections going forward.

So nothing was proved. Next.

Because noting actionable really CAN be proved after the fact. People who commit voter fraud know that once the ballot is in the box, it's not coming back out.

There's a very strong possibility that we have lost whatever opportunity we had to ensure the security of our elections. For whatever reason (I'll leave that to your imagination) democrats have consistently fought tooth and nail to oppose the kinds of controls required to ensure secure elections. And as usual, republicans have been asleep at the wheel.

(01-16-2021 10:19 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:20 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything.

Actually, they've found quite a bit suggesting very strongly that there were massive improprieties. What they haven't found, because you really can't find it after the fact, is evidence sufficient to remove ballots from the box. Once ballots get into the box, it is virtually impossible to get them back out. For that reason, once you get away with vote fraud up front, you're basically good. Also for that reason, the lawsuits have all been wastes of time. Where the effort should have gone instead was to holding onto the Georgia senate seats and toward finding ways to clean up elections going forward.

So nothing was proved. Next.

I can prove that in WI, PA, MI, and NV that the law was broken and their electoral votes should have been rejected. Thats all that needed to be proven. There was rampant voter fraud as well, but there was never a call to prove it. THe courts simply assumed it was true and dismissed anyway.

(01-14-2021 09:32 AM)Claw Wrote:  They do NOT have all the power. They have a very slim advantage in each house. You only need to sway a few opinions on any given subject.

uh, 10 GOP members of the House agreed to impeach Trump...sounds like the Democrats are the ones building bridges right now.

(01-16-2021 10:47 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 10:19 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:20 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything.

Actually, they've found quite a bit suggesting very strongly that there were massive improprieties. What they haven't found, because you really can't find it after the fact, is evidence sufficient to remove ballots from the box. Once ballots get into the box, it is virtually impossible to get them back out. For that reason, once you get away with vote fraud up front, you're basically good. Also for that reason, the lawsuits have all been wastes of time. Where the effort should have gone instead was to holding onto the Georgia senate seats and toward finding ways to clean up elections going forward.

So nothing was proved. Next.

I can prove that in WI, PA, MI, and NV that the law was broken and their electoral votes should have been rejected. Thats all that needed to be proven. There was rampant voter fraud as well, but there was never a call to prove it. THe courts simply assumed it was true and dismissed anyway.

The point is that with the legal timelines, you can't just throw out a presidential election and start over as they did in North Carolina in that House election and as Nevada did in November with that Clark County Commissioner election. It was such a mess they couldn't reliably say who won.

But with the legal timelines, you have to prove it in the courts or have Congress vote. And unless you can prove those illegalities benefitted one side enough, you can't justify assuming the other side won.

Its a secret ballot. We may know 10,000 people voted twice. But once those absentee ballots get pulled out of the envelope, there's no way to know who they voted for.

We need to be pursuing prosecution of these people. If someone fraudulently voted twice they need to go to jail. If someone fraudulently used another person's absentee ballot, we need to investigate and figure out how it happened.

Unfortunately, the Georgia Secretary of State seems to have no interest in proving how incompetent he was.

Ya, we should be able to determine if someone votes twice. If not, that should be in place by 2024 for all states because there will continue to be higher mail-in/absentee voting.

I doubt there was a co-ordinated effort for 100K fake Biden votes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some residents voted twice hoping not to be caught or because of over-zealous Get-Out-The-Vote workers.

(01-16-2021 10:47 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 10:19 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:20 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  People (Rep & Dem) have been bending over backwards for months and haven't found anything.

Actually, they've found quite a bit suggesting very strongly that there were massive improprieties. What they haven't found, because you really can't find it after the fact, is evidence sufficient to remove ballots from the box. Once ballots get into the box, it is virtually impossible to get them back out. For that reason, once you get away with vote fraud up front, you're basically good. Also for that reason, the lawsuits have all been wastes of time. Where the effort should have gone instead was to holding onto the Georgia senate seats and toward finding ways to clean up elections going forward.

So nothing was proved. Next.

I can prove that in WI, PA, MI, and NV that the law was broken and their electoral votes should have been rejected. Thats all that needed to be proven. There was rampant voter fraud as well, but there was never a call to prove it. THe courts simply assumed it was true and dismissed anyway.

Where have you been? Submit your legal briefs! Hurry, not much time!

I think he means proof that the rules of the election were changed improperly in those states. I’d still like to see it. Changing the rules last minute is no fun, especially if it puts your party at a disadvantage... but the purpose was to get a higher turnout than the pandemic might otherwise allow, not to disenfranchise a certain party.

(01-17-2021 09:26 AM)Crayton Wrote:  ... but the purpose was to get a higher turnout than the pandemic might otherwise allow, not to disenfranchise a certain party.

That is debatable.

Yes. Debatable.

(01-17-2021 09:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-17-2021 09:26 AM)Crayton Wrote:  ... but the purpose was to get a higher turnout than the pandemic might otherwise allow, not to disenfranchise a certain party.

That is debatable.

It’s not debatable. The rules and elimination of verification was done to benefit democrats

(01-14-2021 02:15 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 02:01 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  His 1st amendment rights are just fine. When you find the constitutional right to tweet that's been infringed upon let me know.

You are not this stupid.

Yes he is.

(01-14-2021 03:18 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 09:32 AM)Claw Wrote:  They do NOT have all the power. They have a very slim advantage in each house. You only need to sway a few opinions on any given subject.

You ARE an optimist. Do you really think that there's Demoncrapped that would go against the flow. I don't...

No one is more aware of power of the cancel culture than those that yield it. No democrat will resist and many linguine spined republicans will play along.
The question for me is who pulls the puppet strings?

Simple; Trump said in his campaign, at his inauguration and continuously throughout his presidency that he would drain the DC swamp. He did his best yet they beat him in the end.

He pointed out the swamp and they have revealed themselves as a result. It’s up to patriots now. It won’t be simple and it won’t be quick.

(01-17-2021 01:59 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Simple; Trump said in his campaign, at his inauguration and continuously throughout his presidency that he would drain the DC swamp. He did his best yet they beat him in the end.

He pointed out the swamp and they have revealed themselves as a result. It’s up to patriots now. It won’t be simple and it won’t be quick.

Ask yourself if you really believe the bolded part? Was the first debate an example of his best? Were the hiring and firings of Cohen, Comey, Scaramucci, Kelly, Giuliani, Powell and Wood him at his best? Was his behavior on Jan. 6 really him at his best?

Donald Trump is an astonishing man, and history will one day properly recognize his achievements. But he did not give us his best.

Things would be very different today if he had.