I know several teams haven't played much due to pandemic issues, while a few like Toledo have a full resume, but thought I'd share a stab at rankings coming into league play.

Tier 1

Akron: statement win early over Ohio, lot of depth, returning POY
Buffalo: up and down start but prob most talented roster of veteran guys in the league
Toledo: 2 buckets away from 9-1 with the best MAC non-conf win (@undefeated Marshall), 2 quality losses, and 2-0 in the league. injuries inside making the rockets into a small ball team
Kent: older balanced roster that some MAC teams will struggle to match up with. OT loss at virginia showed their defensive potential

Tier 2

BG: preseason favorite has an early Dec win over buffalo and a great go to guy in turner, but 2 blowout losses and lack of an inside game make you wonder if they weren't a bit overrated
Ohio: showed up at illinois and preston is a gem but haven't played well against good teams lately
Ball St: cards don't have any impressive wins but have a solid roster outside of the post and have vets to lean on for the stretch run

Tier 3

Miami: a couple good performances and a couple stinkers, owens is fighting for his job and there's some decent talent, could fight their way into the middle of the pack
Western: looked pretty competitive against a good schedule but haven't won much, their young guys are developing well and they could make a late push

Tier 4

EMU: incomplete just 2 D1 games, there's potential if the whole roster can get healthy, but little positive to point to so far
CMU: do have a couple D1 wins but don't look like they will challenge for a top 8 spot in cleveland
NIU: the roster isn't horrible but they haven't played a good game yet 1-6

Not that BG didn't deserve to win on Dec. 6, but I wish Buffalo could have played that game with Mballa healthy and Brewton eligible!

(12-25-2020 07:11 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  Not that BG didn't deserve to win on Dec. 6, but I wish Buffalo could have played that game with Mballa healthy and Brewton eligible!

Mballa owned BG last year so I was happy BG got the win over Buffalo w/o him. BG is weak at center. With Matiss Kulakovskis (sp?) at 6-9 returning in January as a stretch 5, BG hopefully can improve. Add to that 4 newcomers improving (Metheny, Fulcher, Young and Washington with the latter two at 6-7 and 6-8) I think BG will be very good by the latter half of the conference season. I think we will earn our way to the top tier.

BG plays much better with a smaller more mobile 5 position like Plowden, Young or hopefully Matiss K. but as noted, BG is vulnerable to a strong center.

I believe EMU will be a middle of the pack team in the conference. We have talent at all positions except at center. Unless covid19 disrupts us more than anticipated, we will most likely finish a game above or under 0.500 in the conference. As most of you know, we play mostly street ball on offense and a 5th grade zone on defense. Any team that is patient with a couple good shooters will eat the zone up unless you’re cold that day. I’m hoping this is Murphy’s last season at EMU. In 10 years he never really challenged for the MAC title and it’s time to move on.

Ball St: cards don't have any impressive wins but have a solid roster outside of the post and have vets to lean on for the stretch run

This is Whitford's 7th or 8th year. He has done nothing terribly impressive save that really good ND win.

There is nothing special about his teams either. Most teams seem to have a plan with respect to positions. Whitford's teams are a hodgepodge of the same player. They do not rebound well or shoot well. The shooting well thing is a head scratcher because that's his style of play.

That said, he'll get his typical 18-20 wins and bow out of the MAC tourney early and it will be enough for the admin.

(12-26-2020 10:19 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  I believe EMU will be a middle of the pack team in the conference. We have talent at all positions except at center. Unless covid19 disrupts us more than anticipated, we will most likely finish a game above or under 0.500 in the conference. As most of you know, we play mostly street ball on offense and a 5th grade zone on defense. Any team that is patient with a couple good shooters will eat the zone up unless you’re cold that day. I’m hoping this is Murphy’s last season at EMU. In 10 years he never really challenged for the MAC title and it’s time to move on.

EMU is the classic 'donut team' of 2020/21: A hole in the middle... Big hole in the middle.

BG had one blowout loss, that to Wright State. The loss to Michigan by 14 was not close to a blowout, though maybe not as close as it should have been. Compare that to Ball St.’s 19-point loss or Toledo’s 20-point loss. With that, and BG having beat UB, each playing without their best big men, and Turner being arguably the best player in the league, BG is definitely in the top tier. Pono, don’t let your Rocket bias get in the way of subjective rankings.

(12-28-2020 01:17 PM)bg816 Wrote:  BG had one blowout loss, that to Wright State. The loss to Michigan by 14 was not close to a blowout, though maybe not as close as it should have been. Compare that to Ball St.’s 19-point loss or Toledo’s 20-point loss. With that, and BG having beat UB, each playing without their best big men, and Turner being arguably the best player in the league, BG is definitely in the top tier. Pono, don’t let your Rocket bias get in the way of subjective rankings.

RPI has some kind of weird malfunction with Cleveland State which has them in the top 20. That win looks good for Ohio and Toledo. I think the Rockets compared to EMU and NIU are in the top half (but it's possible both of them miss the MAC tourney. Hard to know more than that. Xavier has been awesome too which points to Toledo being able to hang with athletic teams lacking in size. Buffalo will be a bear for us.

(12-28-2020 01:17 PM)bg816 Wrote:  BG had one blowout loss, that to Wright State. The loss to Michigan by 14 was not close to a blowout, though maybe not as close as it should have been. Compare that to Ball St.’s 19-point loss or Toledo’s 20-point loss. With that, and BG having beat UB, each playing without their best big men, and Turner being arguably the best player in the league, BG is definitely in the top tier. Pono, don’t let your Rocket bias get in the way of subjective rankings.

True, might be some bias here, although i did watch that bg-mich game and they got dominated like toledo and ball st

(12-26-2020 12:29 AM)Siborg Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 07:11 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  Not that BG didn't deserve to win on Dec. 6, but I wish Buffalo could have played that game with Mballa healthy and Brewton eligible!

Mballa owned BG last year so I was happy BG got the win over Buffalo w/o him. BG is weak at center. With Matiss Kulakovskis (sp?) at 6-9 returning in January as a stretch 5, BG hopefully can improve. Add to that 4 newcomers improving (Metheny, Fulcher, Young and Washington with the latter two at 6-7 and 6-8) I think BG will be very good by the latter half of the conference season. I think we will earn our way to the top tier.

BG plays much better with a smaller more mobile 5 position like Plowden, Young or hopefully Matiss K. but as noted, BG is vulnerable to a strong center.

Update:
Matiss K. 6-9, is now out for the year. So BG needs one of 3 bigs to really improve over the course of the year so we can keep Plowden at Forward:
Swingle 6-10 (slow and big but does have a decent shot when he gets it off)
Washington, 6-8, limited action but has been a decent reserve player so far.
Young, 6-7, under sized Fr for the 5 position but like I said, BG plays better small.

(12-28-2020 08:58 PM)pono Wrote:  

(12-28-2020 01:17 PM)bg816 Wrote:  BG had one blowout loss, that to Wright State. The loss to Michigan by 14 was not close to a blowout, though maybe not as close as it should have been. Compare that to Ball St.’s 19-point loss or Toledo’s 20-point loss. With that, and BG having beat UB, each playing without their best big men, and Turner being arguably the best player in the league, BG is definitely in the top tier. Pono, don’t let your Rocket bias get in the way of subjective rankings.

True, might be some bias here, although i did watch that bg-mich game and they got dominated like toledo and ball st

Wright State game was an annihilation of BG. WSU lost their edge and let the score get within 20 but that game was fugly. The Michigan game was not really in doubt and Diggs' 6 late 3's kept it under 20.

(12-25-2020 06:14 PM)pono Wrote:  Tier 1
Akron: statement win early over Ohio, lot of depth, returning POY

Tier 2
Ohio: showed up at illinois and preston is a gem but haven't played well against good teams lately

When a team strings together a few nice games and then tails off that is a sign they don't really have it yet which is what I think we are seeing with Ohio through the few data points.

Ohio hasn't been a factor in the MAC either for quite a few years. I could give them the benefit of the doubt if they had 3 straight 20 win seasons prior but they don't.

(12-29-2020 10:58 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 06:14 PM)pono Wrote:  Tier 1
Akron: statement win early over Ohio, lot of depth, returning POY

Tier 2
Ohio: showed up at illinois and preston is a gem but haven't played well against good teams lately

When a team strings together a few nice games and then tails off that is a sign they don't really have it yet which is what I think we are seeing with Ohio through the few data points.

Ohio hasn't been a factor in the MAC either for quite a few years. I could give them the benefit of the doubt if they had 3 straight 20 win seasons prior but they don't.

mostly agree, OU is prob a year away-if they can keep preston-from being real good. truth is they have several sophs in key roles and a very young bench, so, inconsistency is to be expected, especially since none of these cats has seen success in college. then again, every year is a new season. i think their 4-8 guys aren't quite there yet. top 3 players-preston, vanderplas, wilson-best inside out trio in the league. i could see them stay inconsistent or, if healthy, develop the right rotation and an understanding of their strengths and be really good down the stretch.

toledo is the team i know best and they are the most consistent team in the league probably so far, but not good enough yet to win it. the rockets strength is that they got 9 or 10 capable guys to send out there and good overall guard and wing play. there are veteran players who have won and will guard you and a lot of guys who can shoot you down on a good night. due to injury there is only a backup center and a couple 210 lb combo forwards trying to help defend the post and rim. so, the rockets, kinda like bg have to find a way to defend that covers up their lack of size and settle into their offense and trust their talent.

akron has a blueprint for winning the league with their win over ohio. and they have the mentality of the defending champs and league mvp pg. lots of questions on who will be their other stars, but like toledo they got 9 or 10 guys they can send out there who can at least hang with your top 5.

one wildcard is that mid season transfers in good academic standing will have immediate eligibility. there could be close to 100 players transferring before 2nd term begins in a couple weeks and that window closes. including some ivy league seniors and any others who are taking the entire year off. i think 3 ivy league big men are in the portal. 1 good one going to gonzaga or ohio st or somewhere and a couple decent veteran backups. i'd expect mac teams, like toledo, who have an open scholarship and need to fill a positional need to have conversations with players transferring. see where their head is at and possibly sign a kid midseason and give them a chance to close out their college career. kowalcyzk has said he already is.

(12-30-2020 03:40 AM)pono Wrote:  

(12-29-2020 10:58 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 06:14 PM)pono Wrote:  Tier 1
Akron: statement win early over Ohio, lot of depth, returning POY

Tier 2
Ohio: showed up at illinois and preston is a gem but haven't played well against good teams lately

When a team strings together a few nice games and then tails off that is a sign they don't really have it yet which is what I think we are seeing with Ohio through the few data points.

Ohio hasn't been a factor in the MAC either for quite a few years. I could give them the benefit of the doubt if they had 3 straight 20 win seasons prior but they don't.

mostly agree, OU is prob a year away-if they can keep preston-from being real good. truth is they have several sophs in key roles and a very young bench, so, inconsistency is to be expected, especially since none of these cats has seen success in college. then again, every year is a new season. i think their 4-8 guys aren't quite there yet. top 3 players-preston, vanderplas, wilson-best inside out trio in the league. i could see them stay inconsistent or, if healthy, develop the right rotation and an understanding of their strengths and be really good down the stretch.

toledo is the team i know best and they are the most consistent team in the league probably so far, but not good enough yet to win it. the rockets strength is that they got 9 or 10 capable guys to send out there and good overall guard and wing play. there are veteran players who have won and will guard you and a lot of guys who can shoot you down on a good night. due to injury there is only a backup center and a couple 210 lb combo forwards trying to help defend the post and rim. so, the rockets, kinda like bg have to find a way to defend that covers up their lack of size and settle into their offense and trust their talent.

akron has a blueprint for winning the league with their win over ohio. and they have the mentality of the defending champs and league mvp pg. lots of questions on who will be their other stars, but like toledo they got 9 or 10 guys they can send out there who can at least hang with your top 5.

one wildcard is that mid season transfers in good academic standing will have immediate eligibility. there could be close to 100 players transferring before 2nd term begins in a couple weeks and that window closes. including some ivy league seniors and any others who are taking the entire year off. i think 3 ivy league big men are in the portal. 1 good one going to gonzaga or ohio st or somewhere and a couple decent veteran backups. i'd expect mac teams, like toledo, who have an open scholarship and need to fill a positional need to have conversations with players transferring. see where their head is at and possibly sign a kid midseason and give them a chance to close out their college career. kowalcyzk has said he already is.

With roughly 4-games on the MAC ledger around the league here are a few GENERAL OBSERVATIONs ...

The teams that have played the most overall games (Toledo, BG) have the best records: I think this shows there is value in non-conference games, considering Toledo has had time to completely change its team from inside dominant to perimeter dominant ... BG has had time to find a blend that works well with Turner.

The traditional powers (basically East teams - Buffalo, Akron, Kent) look to be themselves, but just have not hit a level of consistency. Late January-February could be interesting for one or all of those teams.

Ohio looks to have the most balanced (inside/out) team but its youth is showing, bigtime. Will they grow out of it.

Still a bit of an unknown (as usual) are Ball State and Eastern Michigan. One or both could rise or fall as the season wears on.

Not much to be said for Miami, NIU, CMU ...

WMU seems to have pieces ... but.

(01-09-2021 07:01 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(12-30-2020 03:40 AM)pono Wrote:  [quote='Kit-Cat' pid='17192146' dateline='1609300681']
[quote='pono' pid='17186618' dateline='1608938053']

With roughly 4-games on the MAC ledger around the league here are a few GENERAL OBSERVATIONs ...

The teams that have played the most overall games (Toledo, BG) have the best records: I think this shows there is value in non-conference games, considering Toledo has had time to completely change its team from inside dominant to perimeter dominant ... BG has had time to find a blend that works well with Turner.

The traditional powers (basically East teams - Buffalo, Akron, Kent) look to be themselves, but just have not hit a level of consistency. Late January-February could be interesting for one or all of those teams.

Ohio looks to have the most balanced (inside/out) team but its youth is showing, bigtime. Will they grow out of it.

Still a bit of an unknown (as usual) are Ball State and Eastern Michigan. One or both could rise or fall as the season wears on.

Not much to be said for Miami, NIU, CMU ...

WMU seems to have pieces ... but.

won't argue with this, cleveland.
toledo has had an interesting year. had a covid outbreak that affected half the team and staff early in fall camp and shut everything down. missed a lot of the pre-season practices but got healthy and opened on time with a 3 day run in cincinnati of bradley oakland host xavier. toledo lost their best big guy to injury in the middle and was still 2 buckets away from winning all 3. toledo led xavier all game but lost by 3. in a similar but even closer game they lost to bradley on a shot w a second to go. for the next 5 games the rockets tried to play the same intended style with the backup center komagum but it hurt the offensive flow. gradually, it became clear the team was better when we went small. the final piece was the mid season eligibility of D2 transfer jt shumate who is becoming a good fit for the small ball lineup as he gets comfortable. toledo has senior leaders who play with an edge. they are light inside, but are learning how to play with it. the disadvantage of missing half the preseason with covid cases and losing a couple of games they should have won, has become the advantage and luck of having no disruptions to their schedule since. in fact, toledo even added a game on 2 day notice at michigan and got their as$ kicked. it was a good lesson and led to some improvement. after the 2 close early losses the rockets have won 2 close road games against good teams -marshall and kent. toledo will get better each time you see them this year.

buffalo scares me. they just had some roster changes. their top frosh recruit robinson left school. and the women's coach's son is doing a mid year transfer in. career 10 pt scorer at wing in the A10 at george washington. unusual trade but probably helps ub in the short term. kent is a few buckets away from 6-1 or 7-0 against a pretty brutal schedule. don't quite look like a complete team yet but have as many pieces as the others. bg is rolling. much like toledo had a couple early stumbles to good teams and has gotten better playing small. not a good year to be average mac team trying to play small. there's a few good mac programs more than happy to play that way with you.