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All Things Realignment 2.0
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #3601
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(12-23-2023 01:19 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(12-22-2023 11:02 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(12-22-2023 11:53 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Wow! This has been rumored for some time but FSU is going to legally challenge the ACC's GOR. Sit back, watch this unfold and let the chips fall somewhere...

It was inevitable.

It's such a novel contractual creation that both sides were terrified of touching the wire to see it's live. FSU is licking its fingers to check. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Lots of universities have had outside counsel looking into GoR issues the past few years to stockpile dry powder just in case.

You or Mark may have a better perspective, but in my estimation this is headed for a negotiated settlement down the road. Both sides are dug in for now but paying lawyers in an unending suit is draining and painful for everyone involved. This will hurt the ACC the longer this goes on because FSU doesn't want to be in the conference. It's like trying to hold onto a marriage when one of the spouses has already checked out. Each side has a tipping point and it will be interesting to know when those finally overlap and a settlement is the logical, reasonable way out. It seems that would be sooner [2-3 years] rather than later [closer to the GOR/media deal 2036 term]. Then again, who knows?

Likely.

I have been saying for years that if anyone on either side was actually serious about determining enforceability they would have just filed a declaratory judgment action. Nobody really wanted to know.

FSU is looking to write a much smaller check.
 
12-23-2023 08:55 PM
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righthook Offline
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Post: #3602
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
SMU could end up making less in the ACC than they did in the American

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-cfp-may...30576.html

Sources: CFP may withhold added revenue from SMU despite Power Five move

HOUSTON — Inside a hotel board room Monday, a few hours before Washington meets Michigan in the national championship game, leaders of the College Football Playoff will gather to rubber-stamp a few important items.

They are expected to formally approve format changes to the expanded playoff in light of the Pac-12's disbanding, moving to what’s termed a “5+7” format that features five automatic qualifying spots for conference champions and seven at-large spots for the next highest-ranked teams (the previous format was a 6+6). And they are also expected to adopt a policy requiring a league to have at least eight members to be eligible to earn an automatic qualifying spot in the playoff.

But there is something else on the docket. It involves a school located just 250 miles from Houston.

SMU, the latest Group of Five program to elevate to the Power Five next year with its jump to the ACC, is at the heart of a CFP money fight.

In the past, schools making the jump from Group of Five to Power Five also saw a leap in their distribution from the College Football Playoff. The difference in annual payout between G5 teams ($1 million) and P5 teams ($6 million) is substantial.

However, after a discussion among CFP commissioners on Nov. 9, SMU did not garner the necessary support for additional revenue distribution. The issue has now been shifted to the commissioners’ corresponding presidents on the CFP Board of Managers, the playoff’s highest governing body made up of a school president from each FBS conference and Notre Dame.

Multiple conference commissioners declined comment on the matter as well as CFP executive director Bill Hancock. In a brief interview with Yahoo Sports, ACC commissioner Jim Phillips expressed disappointment on the issue but declined to elaborate on the details. SMU athletic director Rick Hart declined comment when reached this week.

SEC commissioner Greg Sankey pointed toward the CFP’s long-standing rules around modifications to revenue policies.

“You have to have a unanimous vote to alter revenue distribution and diminish somebody else’s revenue,” Sankey said. “That’s it.”

A formal vote is possible Monday among the 11-member CFP Board of Managers following a scheduled gathering of the commissioners. CFP leaders could push the topic to another time or, possibly, reach a compromise by agreeing to grant SMU a portion of the Power Five revenue.

In many ways, this fight over revenue is a precursor to the looming money battle among the 10 FBS conferences after the current CFP contract expires following the 2025 playoff. The CFP’s television contract with ESPN is what binds the leagues together under a previously agreed upon revenue distribution model.

The CFP is in the midst of negotiating a new television deal, and a new revenue distribution model is expected to start in 2026, at which point, presumably, SMU will be granted a full Power Five payout.

For the next two years, however, the school could be out $6 million that officials expected to receive. That includes the $1 million CFP share from the Group of Five as that, too, is at stake.

During negotiations to join the ACC, the school committed to the conference under the impression that it would receive the full CFP funds, according to comments made by SMU officials in August. There was recent precedent of such a guarantee. In 2022, the CFP voted to distribute full Power Five payouts to new Big 12 schools UCF, Cincinnati, Houston and BYU — all of them elevating from G5 to P5.

Making the situation especially painful is the unique arrangement that SMU made with the ACC. Heavily motivated to be in the Power Five and backed by a plethora of mega-boosters, SMU agreed to accept no television revenue from the ACC in its first nine years in the conference. That said, school officials expected to receive non-television ACC payouts that total at least $10-12 million annually — roughly half of which, it thought, would come from the CFP.

Without the CFP, SMU’s first nine years in the ACC may generate annually roughly half of what it earned in distribution while in the American Athletic Conference (about $9 million).

Currently, the CFP distributes $460 million annually. About 80% goes to the Power Five and 20% to the Group of Five.

The Big Ten and SEC, swelling to 18 and 16 members, respectively, with arguably eight of the top-10 most valuable brands in the sport, may urge for the distribution model to further skew toward them as a new “Power 2,” a term widely used to describe college football’s behemoth leagues.

The revenue battle is likely to be a hotly contested showdown and one that could come soon. The CFP, expanding to 12 teams starting next season, is working towards a new, lucrative television deal that may necessitate a modified revenue distribution model as soon as this year.

CFP leaders are expected to get an update on TV negotiations next week. Multiple potential suitors have presented before commissioners, including ESPN, Fox, NBC, Turner and Amazon. ESPN owns the rights for the championship game, semifinals and quarterfinals through the 2025 playoff and gets first right to match in first-round games.

If the CFP does deny SMU’s Power Five funding, the association sets a moratorium on additional revenue for those schools elevating from Group of Five to Power Five — a policy likely to even span into a new CFP contract starting in 2026. The move is yet another sign that college leaders are attempting to restrict Division I’s highest body from further expansion.

That goes for those moving from FCS to FBS. For instance, the Division I Board of Directors increased the FBS entrance from $5,000 to $5 million last year.
 
01-05-2024 03:53 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #3603
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
Notre Dame College in Cleveland in talks to merge with Cleveland State. There have been quite a few of these small private schools that have been swallowed up of late.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quic...ship-talks
 
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2024 09:42 AM by CliftonAve.)
01-30-2024 09:40 AM
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Z-Fly Offline
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Post: #3604
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-30-2024 09:40 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Notre Dame College in Cleveland in talks to merge with Cleveland State. There have been quite a few of these small private schools that have been swallowed up of late.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quic...ship-talks

If remember correctly, BearCatMan predicted there would be a lot of that going on in the near future.
 
01-31-2024 06:43 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #3605
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 06:43 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  
(01-30-2024 09:40 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Notre Dame College in Cleveland in talks to merge with Cleveland State. There have been quite a few of these small private schools that have been swallowed up of late.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quic...ship-talks

If remember correctly, BearCatMan predicted there would be a lot of that going on in the near future.

Yep...I'm hearing rumblings that there will likely be two more in the state by the end of 2025 unless some angels come down with some wads of cash. The merger side of things wasn't really on the table due to the public/private issue...there are definitely a few places watching what the State does for this to see if it'll be possible for them. I would say Lourdes University in Sylvania (metro-Toledo), Antioch College in Yellow Springs, and Union Institute in Cincinnati will be the first to walk the gallows. Defiance College may have sealed their fate with their move to NAIA and the 25% reduction in Tuition that they announced to try to get more students in the doors...Lourdes did the same thing to promote more athletics entries due to the allowance of scholarship in NAIA, but it backfired...enrollment dropped, discount rate has skyrocketed, and there's no one coming to those schools outside of athletes at this point.

What you're going to see now, if this works out, are some of the metropolitan campuses working with these smaller schools to confer degrees while giving students the opportunity to live in a smaller school campus. If there was a Sylvania campus for Toledo, you'd get people to go, if you had a Yellow Springs campus for Wright State, I bet some students would consider it...Cleveland State was smart to consider this option honestly, as long as there is enough cash to make it work.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2024 09:42 AM by BearcatMan.)
01-31-2024 09:33 AM
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RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
Antioch is still around? I thought Yellow Springs was just a rich hippie museum...like something from a Kurt Vonnegut novel.
 
01-31-2024 10:18 AM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #3607
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 10:18 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Antioch is still around? I thought Yellow Springs was just a rich hippie museum...like something from a Kurt Vonnegut novel.

It is.
 
01-31-2024 10:56 AM
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Post: #3608
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 10:18 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Antioch is still around? I thought Yellow Springs was just a rich hippie museum...like something from a Kurt Vonnegut novel.

They're hanging around...had a 25% cut to all operating budgets last year, and in 2020 they nearly closed if not for a bit of a "Save the Whales" drive from alumni. That only lasts so long before people are tapped out though.
 
01-31-2024 11:34 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
In thought the main purpose of that place was so rich families could drop off the odd bird trust funders to dabble in a few classes and then open a used book store or a gem shop and stay there for life.
 
01-31-2024 12:01 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #3610
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 12:01 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In thought the main purpose of that place was so rich families could drop off the odd bird trust funders to dabble in a few classes and then open a used book store or a gem shop and stay there for life.

I believe Denison has cornered that market at this point.
 
01-31-2024 01:10 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
Ahh Denison. The kind of school that had the right mixture of old $$ and weed to get the Betas to bring in Phish to play in their living room in 1990.
 
01-31-2024 02:00 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #3612
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 01:10 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 12:01 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  In thought the main purpose of that place was so rich families could drop off the odd bird trust funders to dabble in a few classes and then open a used book store or a gem shop and stay there for life.

I believe Denison has cornered that market at this point.

Denison is more the preppy kid from the Northeast who couldn't get into his father's alma mater (even with legacy admissions), so he gets dropped off at Denison for four years before coming back home and having one of dad's country club buddies give him a job that should have gone to someone more qualified.

Miami is a public version of Denison. Other notable "Denison-like" colleges include DePauw, Pepperdine and Santa Clara. I think SMU was a Texas version back in the day but have really improved themselves academically in the last ten to fifteen years.
 
01-31-2024 02:47 PM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #3613
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
In my small town, the largest local company was owned by a family and their youngest son kept flunking out of various high schools. They brought him back to our home town where he snuck through with a D average his senior year and graduated.

Somehow, we found out four years later that he graduated from SMU and became a high ranking salesman in the company (a job he was actually pretty good at as he was a master bullshitter).

Especially interesting as he was a Catholic from a 99% Catholic town and still got into South METHODIST University. I think daddy spread a little cash around there.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2024 06:42 PM by Bruce Monnin.)
01-31-2024 06:41 PM
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Post: #3614
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 06:41 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  In my small town, the largest local company was owned by a family and their youngest son kept flunking out of various high schools. They brought him back to our home town where he snuck through with a D average his senior year and graduated.

Somehow, we found out four years later that he graduated from SMU and became a high ranking salesman in the company (a job he was actually pretty good at as he was a master bullshitter).

Especially interesting as he was a Catholic from a 99% Catholic town and still got into South METHODIST University. I think daddy spread a little cash around there.

I'm not sure how Methodist smu is anymore. Also on the reference that they improved academics in the last 10 years or so, I remember it having a top 5 MBA program like 20+ years ago and solid academic reputation even back then. Memory could be failing me though
 
02-01-2024 06:45 AM
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Post: #3615
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(02-01-2024 06:45 AM)the_dude Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 06:41 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  In my small town, the largest local company was owned by a family and their youngest son kept flunking out of various high schools. They brought him back to our home town where he snuck through with a D average his senior year and graduated.

Somehow, we found out four years later that he graduated from SMU and became a high ranking salesman in the company (a job he was actually pretty good at as he was a master bullshitter).

Especially interesting as he was a Catholic from a 99% Catholic town and still got into South METHODIST University. I think daddy spread a little cash around there.

I'm not sure how Methodist smu is anymore. Also on the reference that they improved academics in the last 10 years or so, I remember it having a top 5 MBA program like 20+ years ago and solid academic reputation even back then. Memory could be failing me though

The university filed suit to break off from the church four years ago. It’s nonsectarian in its teaching. While not completely divorced, it’s going to be similar to Syracuse which started out bringing founded by the Methodist Episcopal Church.
 
02-01-2024 07:46 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #3616
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(02-01-2024 06:45 AM)the_dude Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 06:41 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  In my small town, the largest local company was owned by a family and their youngest son kept flunking out of various high schools. They brought him back to our home town where he snuck through with a D average his senior year and graduated.

Somehow, we found out four years later that he graduated from SMU and became a high ranking salesman in the company (a job he was actually pretty good at as he was a master bullshitter).

Especially interesting as he was a Catholic from a 99% Catholic town and still got into South METHODIST University. I think daddy spread a little cash around there.

I'm not sure how Methodist smu is anymore. Also on the reference that they improved academics in the last 10 years or so, I remember it having a top 5 MBA program like 20+ years ago and solid academic reputation even back then. Memory could be failing me though

Top 5? I have a hard time thinking they were ever anywhere close to that. Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, MIT, Berkeley, Michigan, USC, UCLA, Northwestern, Penn. That's 10 schools right there that have always been far above a school like SMU. Perhaps it was in some niche subfield like Real Estate MBA or Online MBA.
 
02-01-2024 10:23 AM
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RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 06:41 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  In my small town, the largest local company was owned by a family and their youngest son kept flunking out of various high schools. They brought him back to our home town where he snuck through with a D average his senior year and graduated.

Somehow, we found out four years later that he graduated from SMU and became a high ranking salesman in the company (a job he was actually pretty good at as he was a master bullshitter).

Especially interesting as he was a Catholic from a 99% Catholic town and still got into South METHODIST University. I think daddy spread a little cash around there.

Sounds vaguely familiar. I went to school with Mike Brown's kid after he hit the transfer portal from Summit. Good dude and a great connection for concert tickets but not exactly a guy who was going to bust a grading curve mostly due to not really giving a damn. He found a way to graduate and of course got right into Dartmouth. Helps when dad has a building named after the family. lol
 
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2024 11:17 AM by rath v2.0.)
02-01-2024 11:15 AM
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Post: #3618
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(01-31-2024 11:34 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 10:18 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Antioch is still around? I thought Yellow Springs was just a rich hippie museum...like something from a Kurt Vonnegut novel.

They're hanging around...had a 25% cut to all operating budgets last year, and in 2020 they nearly closed if not for a bit of a "Save the Whales" drive from alumni. That only lasts so long before people are tapped out though.

Isn’t their enrollment literally like 250 for the Yellow Springs campus?
 
02-01-2024 03:38 PM
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Post: #3619
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(02-01-2024 03:38 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 11:34 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 10:18 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Antioch is still around? I thought Yellow Springs was just a rich hippie museum...like something from a Kurt Vonnegut novel.

They're hanging around...had a 25% cut to all operating budgets last year, and in 2020 they nearly closed if not for a bit of a "Save the Whales" drive from alumni. That only lasts so long before people are tapped out though.

Isn’t their enrollment literally like 250 for the Yellow Springs campus?

Yep...they shouldn't exist by all general understanding on higher education financials that I have, but they keep chugging along.

For those keeping track, the Ohio IHE that have closed in the last few years so far are:
Chatfield College
Cincinnati Christian University
Urbana University
Notre Dame College

I'm thinking the schools closest to the gallows are:
Lourdes University (physical infrastructure payments outpacing budget, enrollment down by nearly 70% from high in 2010s)
Antioch College (next to no enrollment and 20-25% budget cuts in each of the last three years)
Lake Erie College (just announced a full default on all serviced debt)
Defiance College (significant cuts paired with continued enrollment issues and a move to scholarship granting athletics)
Lakeland Community College (getting pushed out of the market by Tri-C, LCCC, and Stark State)
Union Institute and University (non-existent enrollment and multiple deep budget cuts)
Tiffin or Heidelberg as independent entities (I just don't know how they both survive in the same small town for much longer)

The problem that's happening now is all of these smaller schools riding athletics to prop up enrollment, but in doing so they're ballooning their discount rates to the precipice of financial exigency.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2024 04:10 PM by BearcatMan.)
02-01-2024 03:51 PM
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Post: #3620
RE: All Things Realignment 2.0
(02-01-2024 03:51 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-01-2024 03:38 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 11:34 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-31-2024 10:18 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Antioch is still around? I thought Yellow Springs was just a rich hippie museum...like something from a Kurt Vonnegut novel.

They're hanging around...had a 25% cut to all operating budgets last year, and in 2020 they nearly closed if not for a bit of a "Save the Whales" drive from alumni. That only lasts so long before people are tapped out though.

Isn’t their enrollment literally like 250 for the Yellow Springs campus?

Yep...they shouldn't exist by all general understanding on higher education financials that I have, but they keep chugging along.

For those keeping track, the Ohio IHE that have closed in the last few years so far are:
Chatfield College
Cincinnati Christian University
Urbana University
Notre Dame College

I'm thinking the schools closest to the gallows are:
Lourdes University (physical infrastructure payments outpacing budget, enrollment down by nearly 70% from high in 2010s)
Antioch College (next to no enrollment and 20-25% budget cuts in each of the last three years)
Lake Erie College (just announced a full default on all serviced debt)
Defiance College (significant cuts paired with continued enrollment issues and a move to scholarship granting athletics)
Lakeland Community College (getting pushed out of the market by Tri-C, LCCC, and Stark State)
Union Institute and University (non-existent enrollment and multiple deep budget cuts)
Tiffin or Heidelberg as independent entities (I just don't know how they both survive in the same small town for much longer)

The problem that's happening now is all of these smaller schools riding athletics to prop up enrollment, but in doing so they're ballooning their discount rates to the precipice of financial exigency.

Antioch has a history of closing…and returning…since its founding in the mid 1800’s.
 
02-02-2024 02:38 AM
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