Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

The games must be played on the home field of the PAC-12 school and visiting teams must submit to PAC-12 COVID protocols. Also, the games must be broadcast only by the PAC-12's TV partners, FOX and ESPN. And the clincher--at least in the case of the offer that the University of Washington made to play BYU--they won't get a cut of the TV money. That goes only to the PAC-12 host and the conference.

The PAC-12 has made its mess with all its dithering. Now it wants other teams to help fix it. First the league cancels all those nonconference games, costing dozens of schools millions of dollars and their athletes dozens of games, and now they're saying please come back and play us on our home fields and let us recoup the money with our TV contracts and give our athletes a little exercise.

And, by the way, you have to undergo their pre-game COVID-19 tests. By the way, whatever protocols the league has in place aren't any more effective than the protocols elsewhere--the league has canceled one-third of its games (7 of 21) due to coronavirus outbreaks.

The PAC-12 is a Power Five conference in name only. The league has lost 11 of its last 15 games to SEC teams; 16 of its last 19 to Big Ten; 20 of its last 33 to Big 12 teams, and 20 of its last 31 bowl games.

There have been six college football playoffs so far, offering a total of 24 berths. The PAC-12 has claimed just two of them, by far the worst among the Power Five conferences.

The league found itself falling behind when it realized everyone was going on with the football season and it has been playing catch up ever since. Anyone want to help them catch up?

1) Safety protocols. How common is it for visiting teams to be required to follow any safety protocols of the location of the game?

2) TV money. Is the split usually 50/50, 100/0, or something in between?

With these conditions in place. is the commissioner of the Pathetic 12 Larry Scott or Bill Walton?

(11-27-2020 06:31 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  1) Safety protocols. How common is it for visiting teams to be required to follow any safety protocols of the location of the game?

2) TV money. Is the split usually 50/50, 100/0, or something in between?

There usually is no TV money split. The visiting team is paid to show up. The PAC12 doesn't want to pay as much because of no fans and the other schools are balking because of their tv revenue.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

This is a surly article. The PAC's terms for OOC games are clearly better than the terms being offered by the SEC or B1G, as they are not allowing any such games under any terms. And it is basically the same terms that the ACC offered as well (must play in same state as ACC team, must follow ACC protocols). So not sure what he is whining about?

As for the other stuff, yes, this situation is of the PAC's own doing, they could have started earlier like the other P5 did. But no, the PAC is clearly a Power conference in terms of performance. The computers show the PAC has performed well within the parameters of a P-league even over the past five years.

Lol the PAC wants people to come save them because they suddenly realized they aren't the SEC or the Big and can't generate any pull by themselves. They also can't get in a play off spot with out playing others.

This along with the "we can cancel on Thursday night if another PAC team becomes available" are hilarious. They along with BYU can choke on their pride. I have a feeling that lots of PAC teams are going to struggle to get ooc games with people. This sort of strong arming leads to people deciding it isn't worth the trouble.

(11-27-2020 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

This is a surly article. The PAC's terms for OOC games are clearly better than the terms being offered by the SEC or B1G, as they are not allowing any such games under any terms. And it is basically the same terms that the ACC offered as well (must play in same state as ACC team, must follow ACC protocols). So not sure what he is whining about?

As for the other stuff, yes, this situation is of the PAC's own doing, they could have started earlier like the other P5 did. But no, the PAC is clearly a Power conference in terms of performance. The computers show the PAC has performed well within the parameters of a P-league even over the past five years.

The article disputes the PAC as "clearly a Power conference in terms of performance".
>The league has lost 11 of its last 15 games to SEC teams; 16 of its last 19 to Big Ten; 20 of its last 33 to Big 12 teams, and 20 of its last 31 bowl games.
>

(11-27-2020 10:40 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 06:31 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  1) Safety protocols. How common is it for visiting teams to be required to follow any safety protocols of the location of the game?

2) TV money. Is the split usually 50/50, 100/0, or something in between?

There usually is no TV money split. The visiting team is paid to show up. The PAC12 doesn't want to pay as much because of no fans and the other schools are balking because of their tv revenue.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Ok - that’s what I thought. I found it to be an odd argument AGAINST the PAC if that’s the norm.

(11-27-2020 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

This is a surly article. The PAC's terms for OOC games are clearly better than the terms being offered by the SEC or B1G, as they are not allowing any such games under any terms. And it is basically the same terms that the ACC offered as well (must play in same state as ACC team, must follow ACC protocols). So not sure what he is whining about?

As for the other stuff, yes, this situation is of the PAC's own doing, they could have started earlier like the other P5 did. But no, the PAC is clearly a Power conference in terms of performance. The computers show the PAC has performed well within the parameters of a P-league even over the past five years.

I don't believe the ACC put in the provision that the ACC retained the right to cancel the game by Thursday for a game to be played Saturday. I believe the Thursday cancellation--as well as the late announcement by PAC--has/will prevent PAC schools from picking up a nonconference game. That PAC Thursday cancellation provision makes the PAC non-conference scheduling entirely different from ACC.

The ACC announcement came, I believe, at the start of the season unlike the PAC announcement coming late in the season. Many of the nonconference games were scheduled and played later in the season. ACC announced it would play an 11 game schedule, 10 conference games plus one nonconference game. Here is the result of ACC nonconference games scheduled and played:

Boston College/Texas State
Clemson/Citadel
Duke/Charlotte
Florida State/Jacksonville State
Georgia Tech/UCF Knights
Louisville/WKU
Miami/UAB
NC State/Liberty
North Carolina/Charlotte
Pitt/Austin Peay
Syracuse/Liberty
Virginia/Abilene Christian
VaTech/Liberty
Wake Forest/Campbell

IMO, one cannot state that PAC nonconference scheduling is just like ACC. The PAC has simply not planned well as has ACC.

Maybe the P12 can play each other more than once LOL.

Eff them.

(11-27-2020 11:19 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

This is a surly article. The PAC's terms for OOC games are clearly better than the terms being offered by the SEC or B1G, as they are not allowing any such games under any terms. And it is basically the same terms that the ACC offered as well (must play in same state as ACC team, must follow ACC protocols). So not sure what he is whining about?

As for the other stuff, yes, this situation is of the PAC's own doing, they could have started earlier like the other P5 did. But no, the PAC is clearly a Power conference in terms of performance. The computers show the PAC has performed well within the parameters of a P-league even over the past five years.

The article disputes the PAC as "clearly a Power conference in terms of performance".
>The league has lost 11 of its last 15 games to SEC teams; 16 of its last 19 to Big Ten; 20 of its last 33 to Big 12 teams, and 20 of its last 31 bowl games.
>

Yes, but that's a cherry-picked metric. As I noted, computers that assess everything say the PAC has been a solid Power-level performer.

The only conference that has slipped below Power level was the ACC last year, when it finished behind the AAC. The PAC has never finished behind any G5 league.

(11-27-2020 12:17 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

This is a surly article. The PAC's terms for OOC games are clearly better than the terms being offered by the SEC or B1G, as they are not allowing any such games under any terms. And it is basically the same terms that the ACC offered as well (must play in same state as ACC team, must follow ACC protocols). So not sure what he is whining about?

As for the other stuff, yes, this situation is of the PAC's own doing, they could have started earlier like the other P5 did. But no, the PAC is clearly a Power conference in terms of performance. The computers show the PAC has performed well within the parameters of a P-league even over the past five years.

I don't believe the ACC put in the provision that the ACC retained the right to cancel the game by Thursday for a game to be played Saturday. I believe the Thursday cancellation--as well as the late announcement by PAC--has/will prevent PAC schools from picking up a nonconference game.

Obviously, the PAC will not play anywhere near the same # of non-conference games as the ACC, but that's not so much a function of their rules for playing such games (which are very similar) but rather a function of the much later start to the season, which means far fewer weeks the games can be played.

In any event, the PAC rules are infinitely better than the B1G and SEC rules for OOC games, as the latter two do not allow them at all.

That said, I totally agree that the PAC's overall planning and handling of this football season has been clearly the worst of all the conferences.

The kicker is reserving the right to cancel as late as Thursday. Without that, BYU would likely be playing Washington instead of the Colorado-SDSU game.

(11-27-2020 02:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 12:17 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

This is a surly article. The PAC's terms for OOC games are clearly better than the terms being offered by the SEC or B1G, as they are not allowing any such games under any terms. And it is basically the same terms that the ACC offered as well (must play in same state as ACC team, must follow ACC protocols). So not sure what he is whining about?

As for the other stuff, yes, this situation is of the PAC's own doing, they could have started earlier like the other P5 did. But no, the PAC is clearly a Power conference in terms of performance. The computers show the PAC has performed well within the parameters of a P-league even over the past five years.

I don't believe the ACC put in the provision that the ACC retained the right to cancel the game by Thursday for a game to be played Saturday. I believe the Thursday cancellation--as well as the late announcement by PAC--has/will prevent PAC schools from picking up a nonconference game.

Obviously, the PAC will not play anywhere near the same # of non-conference games as the ACC, but that's not so much a function of their rules for playing such games (which are very similar) but rather a function of the much later start to the season, which means far fewer weeks the games can be played.

In any event, the PAC rules are infinitely better than the B1G and SEC rules for OOC games, as the latter two do not allow them at all.

That said, I totally agree that the PAC's overall planning and handling of this football season has been clearly the worst of all the conferences.

The ACC looked pretty bad with the whole Clemson-Florida State fiasco.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...g-pandemic

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

The PAC-12 has made its mess with all its dithering. Now it wants other teams to help fix it. First the league cancels all those nonconference games, costing dozens of schools millions of dollars and their athletes dozens of games, and now they're saying please come back and play us on our home fields and let us recoup the money with our TV contracts and give our athletes a little exercise.

And, by the way, you have to undergo their pre-game COVID-19 tests. By the way, whatever protocols the league has in place aren't any more effective than the protocols elsewhere--the league has canceled one-third of its games (7 of 21) due to coronavirus outbreaks.

The PAC-12 is a Power Five conference in name only. The league has lost 11 of its last 15 games to SEC teams; 16 of its last 19 to Big Ten; 20 of its last 33 to Big 12 teams, and 20 of its last 31 bowl games.

There have been six college football playoffs so far, offering a total of 24 berths. The PAC-12 has claimed just two of them, by far the worst among the Power Five conferences.

The league found itself falling behind when it realized everyone was going on with the football season and it has been playing catch up ever since. Anyone want to help them catch up?

The Big 10 numbers are incorrect and I just looked at the 2019 season. The Pac-12 went 5-1 against the Big 10 in 2019:
Stanford beat Northwestern
Colorado beat Nebraska
Arizona State beat Michigan State
Cal beat Illinois (Redbox Bowl)
Oregon beat Wisconsin (Rose Bowl)
USC loss to Iowa (Holiday Bowl)

If he wants his article to have credibility, he needs to get the facts correct. He sounds like someone who just got his media credentials denied by Utah. Also, the Big Ten canceled the Ohio State at Oregon and Michigan at Washington games. They had no control over many of the cancellations.

I thought this article, which was critical of the Larry Scott and the Pac-12, was fair:
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...tt-hotseat

I think it is fair to say that the Pac-12 should have started their season a 2-3 weeks sooner. I also think it is fair to say that the leadership in the conference is a train wreck. That said, the 2020 pandemic has made playing college athletics a bit challenging and the west, right or wrong, has had stringent standards for playing and attending athletic events during the Covid-19 pandemic.

The Pac-12 looks like a power conference from the revenue produced and the athletes then send to the NFL, NBA and MLB. As long as their getting their split of the college football playoff revenue, that is not going to change. But everyone agrees that at a minimum, the Pac-12 needs USC football to improve and that will help the conference overall.

Doesn't matter. Oregon lost to Oregon State and USC game was cancelled. They wont have a team in the Playoff

(11-27-2020 03:52 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

The PAC-12 has made its mess with all its dithering. Now it wants other teams to help fix it. First the league cancels all those nonconference games, costing dozens of schools millions of dollars and their athletes dozens of games, and now they're saying please come back and play us on our home fields and let us recoup the money with our TV contracts and give our athletes a little exercise.

And, by the way, you have to undergo their pre-game COVID-19 tests. By the way, whatever protocols the league has in place aren't any more effective than the protocols elsewhere--the league has canceled one-third of its games (7 of 21) due to coronavirus outbreaks.

The PAC-12 is a Power Five conference in name only. The league has lost 11 of its last 15 games to SEC teams; 16 of its last 19 to Big Ten; 20 of its last 33 to Big 12 teams, and 20 of its last 31 bowl games.

I do not have time to check the data but I assume the sports writer does not want to look foolish publishing incorrect information.

As stated above, Oregon lost to Oregon State and the PAC will not have a national playoff team. There have been six college football playoffs so far, offering a total of 24 berths. The PAC-12 has claimed just two of them, by far the worst among the Power Five conferences.

The league found itself falling behind when it realized everyone was going on with the football season and it has been playing catch up ever since. Anyone want to help them catch up?

The Big 10 numbers are incorrect and I just looked at the 2019 season. The Pac-12 went 5-1 against the Big 10 in 2019:
Stanford beat Northwestern
Colorado beat Nebraska
Arizona State beat Michigan State
Cal beat Illinois (Redbox Bowl)
Oregon beat Wisconsin (Rose Bowl)
USC loss to Iowa (Holiday Bowl)

If he wants his article to have credibility, he needs to get the facts correct. He sounds like someone who just got his media credentials denied by Utah. Also, the Big Ten canceled the Ohio State at Oregon and Michigan at Washington games. They had no control over many of the cancellations.

I thought this article, which was critical of the Larry Scott and the Pac-12, was fair:
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/202...tt-hotseat

I think it is fair to say that the Pac-12 should have started their season a 2-3 weeks sooner. I also think it is fair to say that the leadership in the conference is a train wreck. That said, the 2020 pandemic has made playing college athletics a bit challenging and the west, right or wrong, has had stringent standards for playing and attending athletic events during the Covid-19 pandemic.

The Pac-12 looks like a power conference from the revenue produced and the athletes then send to the NFL, NBA and MLB. As long as their getting their split of the college football playoff revenue, that is not going to change. But everyone agrees that at a minimum, the Pac-12 needs USC football to improve and that will help the conference overall.

The sports writer broke down the wins/losses into two categories, regular season and bowl games. You combined regular season games with bowl games. The games you cite do not invalidate the sports writer's statements that the PAC has lost 20 of its last 31 bowl games and PAC has lost 16 of its last 19 games against Big 10.

I have not verified the data. I don't have time. But I assume the sports writer knew he was going to be cross checked by the newspapers many readers and so wanted all information to be correct.

Utah will play Washington U this Saturday. If BYU had accepted Washington's invitation, the Cougars would have been cancelled. In the meantime, BYU would have incurred costs and both team players and coaching staff would have had their Thanksgiving plans in disarray. Based on a post by a BYU fan on the MWC board, many BYU players altered their Thanksgiving plans and incurred costs anticipating playing Washington. The PAC's non-conference game policy is going nowhere based on this BYU/Utah/Washington fiasco. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

With Oregon's loss, the PAC will now have claimed 2 spots out of 28 in the national playoff. No PAC team will make it this year as stated above

Whether it is the PAC TV network or non-conference scheduling, the PAC seems not to be able to make good decisions. But their Commissioner is happy as his bank account blossoms. $5 million a year for 10 years? Goodness! Gracious! Now that's a superb decision by the Commissioner!

(11-28-2020 04:16 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  The sports writer broke down the wins/losses into two categories, regular season and bowl games. You combined regular season games with bowl games. The games you cite do not invalidate the sports writer's statements that the PAC has lost 20 of its last 31 bowl games and PAC has lost 16 of its last 19 games against Big 10.

I have not verified the data. I don't have time. But I assume the sports writer knew he was going to be cross checked by the newspapers many readers and so wanted all information to be correct.

The guy that wrote this article is a columnist. An opinion writer who didn't check his facts or made them up. The Pac-12 has a winning record over the Big 10 the past two seasons. They have gone 8-4 against the Big Ten the past two seasons. They are 5-1 in regular season and 3-3 in bowl games against the Big 10 the past two seasons. Arizona State swept Michigan State. Colorado swept Nebraska. Oregon beat Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. His Big 10 numbers are garbage.

The Pac-12 is 7-7 in bowl games the past two seasons. Again, I don't see the trend that he speaks of. I don't need to go back 10 or 20 or 30 years. I am just looking at the past two seasons. The past two seasons have not gone particularly well for the Pac-12, yet they don't appear to be the train wreck the writer describes.

The Pac-12 made mistakes with Covid-19, but it has been a bit challenging for college football. As I said earlier, they should have started football sooner. They should have led on the issue, not followed. The Pac-12 issues with the network and Larry Scott will eventually be resolved, because they are not insurmountable issues to resolve. If he would have kept his article to the incompetency of the Pac-12 leadership, it might have been a good article. There is plenty to work with on that subject.

(11-27-2020 02:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 12:17 PM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 04:56 AM)Tulsa Guy Wrote:  Is it any wonder the PAC-12 is looking for opponents to bail league out of the mess it made?
Deseret News, by Doug Robinson, November 25, 2020

After reversing course--again--the league is allowing its teams to play nononference games, but only on its own terms.

In a perverse sort of way, you have to admire the chutzpa of the PAC-12 and its member schools.

This is a surly article. The PAC's terms for OOC games are clearly better than the terms being offered by the SEC or B1G, as they are not allowing any such games under any terms. And it is basically the same terms that the ACC offered as well (must play in same state as ACC team, must follow ACC protocols). So not sure what he is whining about?

As for the other stuff, yes, this situation is of the PAC's own doing, they could have started earlier like the other P5 did. But no, the PAC is clearly a Power conference in terms of performance. The computers show the PAC has performed well within the parameters of a P-league even over the past five years.

I don't believe the ACC put in the provision that the ACC retained the right to cancel the game by Thursday for a game to be played Saturday. I believe the Thursday cancellation--as well as the late announcement by PAC--has/will prevent PAC schools from picking up a nonconference game.

Obviously, the PAC will not play anywhere near the same # of non-conference games as the ACC, but that's not so much a function of their rules for playing such games (which are very similar) but rather a function of the much later start to the season, which means far fewer weeks the games can be played.

In any event, the PAC rules are infinitely better than the B1G and SEC rules for OOC games, as the latter two do not allow them at all.

That said, I totally agree that the PAC's overall planning and handling of this football season has been clearly the worst of all the conferences.

I think that's a matter of opinion.

It may seem contrarian to forbid the non-conference games, but they're doing it because it's more efficient and simpler to control the overall situation. With regard to the SEC, they're not trying to be difficult with anyone because if they were then games like Florida/Florida State would have been given an exception. The SEC/ACC games are important rivalries and prosperous TV games for all involved. As it stands, they believed it was logistically better to avoid the whole mess. I assume the same for the Big Ten.

The PAC 12 on the other hand seems to think they have the right to screw with everyone else, string them along, and not give other programs their due. And why? Purely because it benefits them to do so. It seems to be a very entitled position they've adopted.