(10-23-2020 09:07 AM)ah59396 Wrote:  UMASS has made the NCAA tournament ONCE this century and they haven’t had a winning season since 2014. They’re won one regular season championship since 1997, when Bill Clinton was sworn in for his second term.

Their football program has gone 19-75 since joining FBS, easily among the worst winning percentages in FBS since their 2013 move up.


Why exactly would the MAC or any FBS conference want to add them?

UMass has built a strong young roster. Plus we have been to the NIT Final Four twice, including the championship game and the NCAA in 2014. The MAC has some strong teams, but not enough to bring it over the hump to being a multi-bid conference again.

Eldonabe, Definitely agree with you that our best chance is tied to both UConn and UMass getting competitive in football and go as a package. But have my doubts about UConn doing anything with us as a package. It will take a long time before their mod of thinking changes to have a scheduled filled with P5 teams.

2021 needs to show progress and 2022 will have to pass the eye test in football. Believe we are there in BB with NIT this year and dancing the following year.

I’m a football fan first and foremost but I have to wonder what programs like UMass, UConn, and URI could achieve if they dropped football and diverted those investments towards basketball?

UConn could probably be a perennial Final 4 contender while the other two could really elevate the stature of the A-10.

(10-23-2020 08:18 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  What they really need is a couple more large schools to move their football up.

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanova, ODU, UConn, Umass - that is a decent start to a regional football conference. I am sure I am missing a couple obvious schools that would fit in there too. Hell, Maybe Army would be interested in FB only in that group - pipe dream, but it is a landing spot leaves them 3 or 4 slots for Navy and a few other high profile OOCs?

Throwing Maine onto that list is delusional.

(10-23-2020 10:45 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 08:18 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  What they really need is a couple more large schools to move their football up.

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanova, ODU, UConn, Umass - that is a decent start to a regional football conference. I am sure I am missing a couple obvious schools that would fit in there too. Hell, Maybe Army would be interested in FB only in that group - pipe dream, but it is a landing spot leaves them 3 or 4 slots for Navy and a few other high profile OOCs?

Throwing Maine onto that list is delusional.

In response to a message I received earlier from Steve - this would be a football-only alliance. That keeps everything else as is - Villanova (or Uconn for that matter) isn't moving basketball anywhere.

As for above, I am merely spit-balling here. If Maine had any aspirations of FBS, this set up makes too much sense. Plus there are others who would need to make the move up as well.

If people can put up the Dungeons and Dragons Fantasy Football pipedream posts here, I can play that game too

(10-23-2020 10:39 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m a football fan first and foremost but I have to wonder what programs like UMass, UConn, and URI could achieve if they dropped football and diverted those investments towards basketball?

UConn could probably be a perennial Final 4 contender while the other two could really elevate the stature of the A-10.

UConn is one of the most successful basketball programs this century, all while spending the most money on football they ever have. I don’t think there is a direct correlation.

UMass moving up happened after their great run in the 90’s. Had they made the move when their brand was a national force (and many people suggested they move up in the 90’s including Robert Kraft), it may have worked out in their favor.

I think strong basketball helps football and vice versa.

(10-23-2020 11:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 10:39 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m a football fan first and foremost but I have to wonder what programs like UMass, UConn, and URI could achieve if they dropped football and diverted those investments towards basketball?

UConn could probably be a perennial Final 4 contender while the other two could really elevate the stature of the A-10.

UConn is one of the most successful basketball programs this century, all while spending the most money on football they ever have. I don’t think there is a direct correlation.

UMass moving up happened after their great run in the 90’s. Had they made the move when their brand was a national force (and many people suggested they move up in the 90’s including Robert Kraft), it may have worked out in their favor.

I think strong basketball helps football and vice versa.

Had UMASS joined the MAC with Marshall back in 1997, they would have capitalized on their strong NCAABB brand and would almost certainly be an AAC school right now. Probably would have kept UCONN in place too.

I'm probably in the minority but I think there's value in being affiliated with flagship universities even if they're bad at the moment. That's why I often include UMass, UConn, and even Delaware when the topic of an East Coast Conference comes up.

For example, I told my wife we are playing Massachusetts and she asked "What school in Massachusetts?". I assume she asked that because we play so many directional schools. I said "The University of Massachusetts."

She responded with "Oh!" As if it were a big deal.

Never underestimate how a school sounds or feels to the average Joe or Jan.

(10-23-2020 11:07 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 10:45 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 08:18 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  What they really need is a couple more large schools to move their football up.

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanova, ODU, UConn, Umass - that is a decent start to a regional football conference. I am sure I am missing a couple obvious schools that would fit in there too. Hell, Maybe Army would be interested in FB only in that group - pipe dream, but it is a landing spot leaves them 3 or 4 slots for Navy and a few other high profile OOCs?

Throwing Maine onto that list is delusional.

In response to a message I received earlier from Steve - this would be a football-only alliance. That keeps everything else as is - Villanova (or Uconn for that matter) isn't moving basketball anywhere.

As for above, I am merely spit-balling here. If Maine had any aspirations of FBS, this set up makes too much sense. Plus there are others who would need to make the move up as well.

If people can put up the Dungeons and Dragons Fantasy Football pipedream posts here, I can play that game too

Maine has no FBS ambitions, no constituency (either among the less than 10,000 undergrads on campus or among the geographically isolated, graying local population), and no money for this. Complete non-starter.

Both CUSA and the MAC had inquires to UMass in 1998 regarding joining. Yes things would have been very different as other decision made in the late 70's, including inquires to join the Big East.

Thankful we moved up and discourage by the state the program was when the move was made and how it was handled. The dart throwing and painful critics are trying as we claw out of the basement, by recruiting better. The fact that donations have gone up and improvements made is what gives me some hope. But there are days.

(10-23-2020 08:18 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  UMass is in a real tough spot. They desperately want to be something in football, but they are only willing to go so far to be that. The original MAC affiliation was about Temple who fled for a better conference as soon as Umass signed up for MAC. That was unfortunate timing. UMass and Temple had a decent rivalry in Hoops and they were hoping to stoke the football thing with this.

IMO the AAC is the only viable all sport conference UMass is willing to move to - the P5 will not touch them because football is an anvil on any conference. All the other conferences are a huge increase in travel expense for non revenue sports. If any P5 asked Umass would jump on that in a heartbeat of course.

The A-10 (for now) is still their best option for all sports except football. Basketball is still a solid league and the geographic footprint is affordable for everything else.

I think UConn will be the barometer for what Umass does down the road. If both schools can get to some level of respectability, they can bring a natural rivalry (as football only) to a conference - like the AAC or MAC. I doubt the AAC wants UConn back, but you never know with a package deal?


UConn looks down on the AAC in basketball, but if they can't get solid footing in the next 3 or 4 years in the BE, they may be willing to look around again? It is kind of insulting to the AAC that UConn jumped for hoops when they weren't even that good in that conference. Until UConn truly comes to terms with the fact that they are NOT P5, this dance will continue and Umass is sort of collateral damage. These two schools - like it or not - need each other more than they realize.





What they really need is a couple more large schools to move their football up.

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanova, ODU, UConn, Umass - that is a decent start to a regional football conference. I am sure I am missing a couple obvious schools that would fit in there too. Hell, Maybe Army would be interested in FB only in that group - pipe dream, but it is a landing spot leaves them 3 or 4 slots for Navy and a few other high profile OOCs?

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanaova, UConn, UMass, Stony Brook, Delaware, James Madison, and William & Mary would make a great FB Only "FCS" regional conference.

(10-23-2020 02:44 PM)panite Wrote:  VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanaova, UConn, UMass, Stony Brook, Delaware, James Madison, and William & Mary would make a great FB Only regional conference.

VCU? You might as well add Hofstra and Northeastern.

(10-23-2020 10:06 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 02:44 PM)panite Wrote:  VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanaova, UConn, UMass, Stony Brook, Delaware, James Madison, and William & Mary would make a great FB Only regional conference.

VCU? You might as well add Hofstra and Northeastern.

Torch - they were the plan for the CAA to accept those members and convince Richmond for taking Yankee/A10 football to the CAA. Then they both ended their football programs. DFW-HOA never going back to fcs and should never had chose 1AA over 1A. Once that decision was made, Dick MacPherson left UMass. At the time the temporary seating had the stadium at 20k and was playing Boston College on campus.



Thinking they are awaiting the three test this week to see if we play Oct 31, perhaps Army.

(10-23-2020 10:39 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m a football fan first and foremost but I have to wonder what programs like UMass, UConn, and URI could achieve if they dropped football and diverted those investments towards basketball?

Name ANY school that has dropped football in the past 30 years that has reaped any meaningful and sustained success in basketball. Here's a list.

Long Beach St. 1991
UC-Santa Barbara, 1991
Fullerton St., 1992
Santa Clara, 1992
Pacific, 1995
Boston U, 1997
Evansville, 1997
Northridge St., 2001
Fairfield, 2002
St. John's, 2002
Siena, 2003
St. Peter's, 2006
LaSalle, 2007
Iona, 2008
Hofstra, 2009
Northeastern, 2009

(10-24-2020 11:43 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  DFW-HOYA never going back to fcs and should never had chose 1AA over 1A. Once that decision was made, Dick MacPherson left UMass. At the time the temporary seating had the stadium at 20k and was playing Boston College on campus.

I was referring to VCU above, not UMass.

UMass has completed its fall "season" going 0-4 and being outscored 161-12. All four games were on the road against G5 schools, one with an incredibly toxic brand in Massachusetts. One game appeared on ESPN2, one on CBS Sports Network, and two were streaming only.

I reiterate for the 15,024th time since UMass elevated football: what the heck is the point here?

Is it to have FBS football in order to take advantage of a future realignment opportunity? I think we can all be sure that the AAC would not be interested unless UMass got a LOT better and garnered a LOT more fan support. UMass turned down the MAC already, and the MAC doesn't need them at all. Nothing else makes remote geographic sense, and there are better options if CUSA, the Sun Belt, etc. all of a sudden got some itch to expand.

Speaking of improving... is being able to say "We figured out a way to play a 2020 season" really going to be a boon to recruiting when recruits look at what this season amounted to? Getting your butt kicked on a channel/streaming that your friends and family really need to work hard to find can't be overly appealing (41-0 loss on ESPN2 aside). I guess you can point at UConn and say "Come here, at least you'll play games" but like I've said, UMass and UConn aren't going to get appreciably better just winning recruiting battles against each other. An all-star team of UMass and UConn players/recruits doesn't get you near .500. These teams need to win recruiting battles against Rutgers/Syracuse/BC/Temple to have a chance in the northeast. I don't see that happening.

Finally, what the heck did this cost this year? The paydays for at least two of these games did not cover UMass' expenses in getting to the game. Probably all four.

In the long term, I don't see it, as far as becoming a reasonably decent football team. I don't see it, as far as attracting any fan interest at all. I don't see it, as far as making any financial sense at all. And I don't see it, as far as building a front porch for the University that appears as anything beyond a decaying, termite infested eyesore.

(11-27-2020 03:56 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  UMass has completed its fall "season" going 0-4 and being outscored 161-12. All four games were on the road against G5 schools, one with an incredibly toxic brand in Massachusetts. One game appeared on ESPN2, one on CBS Sports Network, and two were streaming only.

I reiterate for the 15,024th time since UMass elevated football: what the heck is the point here?

Is it to have FBS football in order to take advantage of a future realignment opportunity? I think we can all be sure that the AAC would not be interested unless UMass got a LOT better and garnered a LOT more fan support. UMass turned down the MAC already, and the MAC doesn't need them at all. Nothing else makes remote geographic sense, and there are better options if CUSA, the Sun Belt, etc. all of a sudden got some itch to expand.

Speaking of improving... is being able to say "We figured out a way to play a 2020 season" really going to be a boon to recruiting when recruits look at what this season amounted to? Getting your butt kicked on a channel/streaming that your friends and family really need to work hard to find can't be overly appealing (41-0 loss on ESPN2 aside). I guess you can point at UConn and say "Come here, at least you'll play games" but like I've said, UMass and UConn aren't going to get appreciably better just winning recruiting battles against each other. An all-star team of UMass and UConn players/recruits doesn't get you near .500. These teams need to win recruiting battles against Rutgers/Syracuse/BC/Temple to have a chance in the northeast. I don't see that happening.

Finally, what the heck did this cost this year? The paydays for at least two of these games did not cover UMass' expenses in getting to the game. Probably all four.

In the long term, I don't see it, as far as becoming a reasonably decent football team. I don't see it, as far as attracting any fan interest at all. I don't see it, as far as making any financial sense at all. And I don't see it, as far as building a front porch for the University that appears as anything beyond a decaying, termite infested eyesore.

I think 99% of people who follow college sports that aren’t UMass fans agree with you. UMass should be leveraging the A10 and go all-in on basketball - which already hit the jackpot once in the 90s.

(10-23-2020 02:44 PM)panite Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 08:18 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  UMass is in a real tough spot. They desperately want to be something in football, but they are only willing to go so far to be that. The original MAC affiliation was about Temple who fled for a better conference as soon as Umass signed up for MAC. That was unfortunate timing. UMass and Temple had a decent rivalry in Hoops and they were hoping to stoke the football thing with this.

IMO the AAC is the only viable all sport conference UMass is willing to move to - the P5 will not touch them because football is an anvil on any conference. All the other conferences are a huge increase in travel expense for non revenue sports. If any P5 asked Umass would jump on that in a heartbeat of course.

The A-10 (for now) is still their best option for all sports except football. Basketball is still a solid league and the geographic footprint is affordable for everything else.

I think UConn will be the barometer for what Umass does down the road. If both schools can get to some level of respectability, they can bring a natural rivalry (as football only) to a conference - like the AAC or MAC. I doubt the AAC wants UConn back, but you never know with a package deal?


UConn looks down on the AAC in basketball, but if they can't get solid footing in the next 3 or 4 years in the BE, they may be willing to look around again? It is kind of insulting to the AAC that UConn jumped for hoops when they weren't even that good in that conference. Until UConn truly comes to terms with the fact that they are NOT P5, this dance will continue and Umass is sort of collateral damage. These two schools - like it or not - need each other more than they realize.





What they really need is a couple more large schools to move their football up.

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanova, ODU, UConn, Umass - that is a decent start to a regional football conference. I am sure I am missing a couple obvious schools that would fit in there too. Hell, Maybe Army would be interested in FB only in that group - pipe dream, but it is a landing spot leaves them 3 or 4 slots for Navy and a few other high profile OOCs?

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanaova, UConn, UMass, Stony Brook, Delaware, James Madison, and William & Mary would make a great FB Only "FCS" regional conference.

UNH would be in on this conference in a heartbeat.

(10-23-2020 11:42 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Both CUSA and the MAC had inquires to UMass in 1998 regarding joining.

Source?

(10-23-2020 11:07 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 10:45 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 08:18 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  What they really need is a couple more large schools to move their football up.

VCU, Rhody, Maine, Villanova, ODU, UConn, Umass - that is a decent start to a regional football conference. I am sure I am missing a couple obvious schools that would fit in there too. Hell, Maybe Army would be interested in FB only in that group - pipe dream, but it is a landing spot leaves them 3 or 4 slots for Navy and a few other high profile OOCs?

Throwing Maine onto that list is delusional.

In response to a message I received earlier from Steve - this would be a football-only alliance. That keeps everything else as is - Villanova (or Uconn for that matter) isn't moving basketball anywhere.

As for above, I am merely spit-balling here. If Maine had any aspirations of FBS, this set up makes too much sense. Plus there are others who would need to make the move up as well.

If people can put up the Dungeons and Dragons Fantasy Football pipedream posts here, I can play that game too

Maine has a $22MM athletic budget. No way in hell they move up.

(11-27-2020 04:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(11-27-2020 03:56 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  UMass has completed its fall "season" going 0-4 and being outscored 161-12. All four games were on the road against G5 schools, one with an incredibly toxic brand in Massachusetts. One game appeared on ESPN2, one on CBS Sports Network, and two were streaming only.

I reiterate for the 15,024th time since UMass elevated football: what the heck is the point here?

Is it to have FBS football in order to take advantage of a future realignment opportunity? I think we can all be sure that the AAC would not be interested unless UMass got a LOT better and garnered a LOT more fan support. UMass turned down the MAC already, and the MAC doesn't need them at all. Nothing else makes remote geographic sense, and there are better options if CUSA, the Sun Belt, etc. all of a sudden got some itch to expand.

Speaking of improving... is being able to say "We figured out a way to play a 2020 season" really going to be a boon to recruiting when recruits look at what this season amounted to? Getting your butt kicked on a channel/streaming that your friends and family really need to work hard to find can't be overly appealing (41-0 loss on ESPN2 aside). I guess you can point at UConn and say "Come here, at least you'll play games" but like I've said, UMass and UConn aren't going to get appreciably better just winning recruiting battles against each other. An all-star team of UMass and UConn players/recruits doesn't get you near .500. These teams need to win recruiting battles against Rutgers/Syracuse/BC/Temple to have a chance in the northeast. I don't see that happening.

Finally, what the heck did this cost this year? The paydays for at least two of these games did not cover UMass' expenses in getting to the game. Probably all four.

In the long term, I don't see it, as far as becoming a reasonably decent football team. I don't see it, as far as attracting any fan interest at all. I don't see it, as far as making any financial sense at all. And I don't see it, as far as building a front porch for the University that appears as anything beyond a decaying, termite infested eyesore.

I think 99% of people who follow college sports that aren’t UMass fans agree with you. UMass should be leveraging the A10 and go all-in on basketball - which already hit the jackpot once in the 90s.

I don’t agree. Also, “going all in on basketball” is not a real thing related to football. UConn won their basketball titles with 1-A/FBS football, and the aforementioned schools that dropped football have not had success.

I'll take UMASS back in the MAC if basketball joins too. Not sure if they'd agree to that, but football program needs help & we'd add a flagship name to our conference.

Also, I'd be tempted to bite on UCONN UMASS football only. I don't think a lot of our conference fans are interested, but I think it'd help us.

If they leave in a few years, they leave in a few years.