(01-19-2021 05:16 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  At the risk of being voted off the WAC discussion island, let me play devil’s advocate for a moment.

If the WAC becomes a FBS conference it won’t be based on anticipated revenue. There may be valid reasons in favor of FBS. Money is not one of those reasons. FBS is a financial black hole.

The additional revenue available to the vast majority of FBS schools doesn’t begin to pay the millions of dollars needed for expanding or upgrading facilities and increasing operating budgets.

Elite P5 schools pay their own way. Lower tier P5’s and all but a handful of G5’s pay for their athletic programs largely from institutional budgets and student fees.

Take Texas State for example. A Tx State supporter detailed the cost for them to move to FBS and join the Sun Belt. Perhaps a 100 million in facilities and double the operating budget were required. Even with the college football playoff payout of 1.5 million as a member of the Sun Belt and other sources of FBS revenue 71%( 26.9)million of their 37.8 million budget comes from institutional sources. Contrast this with their down the road neighbor in Austin with a 223 million dollar budget paid for 100% by revenue generated by athletics. And Texas State’s 30,000 plus seat stadium remains half empty for home games (av attendance 17,000 in a good year).

I’m not trying to pick on Texas State. Their situation is the norm for FBS programs that aren’t a part of the college football aristocracy. The bottom line is it’s students who wind up funding most athletic budgets at a time when student interest in attending games is waning and concern about the exponential increases in the cost of college is high. Doe we really want to increase the burden on students and their families?

A couple of things. FBS football brings in a lot of money and has added benefits such as free marketing for the school. There is the prestige of being an FBS school. New Mexico State is playing at Alabama in November and getting paid $1.9 million. The following week, they visit Lexington to play Kentucky, picking up a check of $1.2 million. The games will be televised nationally, on the ESPN family of channels or the SEC network, which is owned by ESPN. Some schools have used these football money games to also arrange future home-and-home games in basketball, especially if you have a good basketball program.

But the investment is significant and yes, there is a commitment that needs to come from the students. At Texas State, the students overwhelmingly voted to increase the student athletic fee in order to move up to FBS football. In 2018-2019, that student athletic fee fee totaled $18 million. We could debate if that is right or wrong, but the students voted for it. With the contribution from the students, I believe my school has an obligation to put competitive athletic teams on the fields and the courts, something they have not done recently.

I checked on the Utah 3 athletic fees since they have few reps here

UVU- $105 per semester
DSU- $102
SUU- $103

This is an article about all of the Utah universities reducing fees because of Covid. I would imagine something similar has been done in most states. Note, the figures in the article are for all student fees, not just athletics.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/8/18/2...ll-waiving

(01-19-2021 05:11 PM)Todor Wrote:  I checked on the Utah 3 athletic fees since they have few reps here

UVU- $105 per semester
DSU- $102
SUU- $103

This is an article about all of the Utah universities reducing fees because of Covid. I would imagine something similar has been done in most states. Note, the figures in the article are for all student fees, not just athletics.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/8/18/2...ll-waiving

Lamar University's fee is $10.58 per semester hour for on-campus students. Lamar Institute of Technology also has a fee of $5.00 per credit hour supporting Lamar University athletics. Both fees allow the students admission to athletic events in return.

(01-19-2021 04:38 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 05:16 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  At the risk of being voted off the WAC discussion island, let me play devil’s advocate for a moment.

If the WAC becomes a FBS conference it won’t be based on anticipated revenue. There may be valid reasons in favor of FBS. Money is not one of those reasons. FBS is a financial black hole.

The additional revenue available to the vast majority of FBS schools doesn’t begin to pay the millions of dollars needed for expanding or upgrading facilities and increasing operating budgets.

Elite P5 schools pay their own way. Lower tier P5’s and all but a handful of G5’s pay for their athletic programs largely from institutional budgets and student fees.

Take Texas State for example. A Tx State supporter detailed the cost for them to move to FBS and join the Sun Belt. Perhaps a 100 million in facilities and double the operating budget were required. Even with the college football playoff payout of 1.5 million as a member of the Sun Belt and other sources of FBS revenue 71%( 26.9)million of their 37.8 million budget comes from institutional sources. Contrast this with their down the road neighbor in Austin with a 223 million dollar budget paid for 100% by revenue generated by athletics. And Texas State’s 30,000 plus seat stadium remains half empty for home games (av attendance 17,000 in a good year).

I’m not trying to pick on Texas State. Their situation is the norm for FBS programs that aren’t a part of the college football aristocracy. The bottom line is it’s students who wind up funding most athletic budgets at a time when student interest in attending games is waning and concern about the exponential increases in the cost of college is high. Doe we really want to increase the burden on students and their families?

A couple of things. FBS football brings in a lot of money and has added benefits such as free marketing for the school. There is the prestige of being an FBS school. New Mexico State is playing at Alabama in November and getting paid $1.9 million. The following week, they visit Lexington to play Kentucky, picking up a check of $1.2 million. The games will be televised nationally, on the ESPN family of channels or the SEC network, which is owned by ESPN. Some schools have used these football money games to also arrange future home-and-home games in basketball, especially if you have a good basketball program.

But the investment is significant and yes, there is a commitment that needs to come from the students. At Texas State, the students overwhelmingly voted to increase the student athletic fee in order to move up to FBS football. In 2018-2019, that student athletic fee fee totaled $18 million. We could debate if that is right or wrong, but the students voted for it. With the contribution from the students, I believe my school has an obligation to put competitive athletic teams on the fields and the courts, something they have not done recently.

I agree with this

(01-19-2021 03:51 PM)NMSUIndyAg Wrote:  Just a quick question for the group. How much are the student athletic fees at your institution? At NMSU it is described as an ASNMSU (Associated Students of NMSU) fee. It is a fee that covers more than just an athletics fee, so I'm not sure how much of that is for Athletics and how much is for other items.

GO AGGIES!!!!

It appears that as of 2020 Sam Houston has an athletic fee that is 20 dollars per semester hour. I am curious though if they intend to raise it going forward. Makes the most sense to put it to a student vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Comments from ACU regarding the new basketball league.

M/WBB: ACU Excited For New Challenges In WAC
https://lonestarsportsdaily.com/m-wbb-ac...es-in-wac/

(01-19-2021 05:16 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  If the WAC becomes a FBS conference it won’t be based on anticipated revenue. There may be valid reasons in favor of FBS. Money is not one of those reasons. FBS is a financial black hole.

The additional revenue available to the vast majority of FBS schools doesn’t begin to pay the millions of dollars needed for expanding or upgrading facilities and increasing operating budgets.

Elite P5 schools pay their own way. Lower tier P5’s and all but a handful of G5’s pay for their athletic programs largely from institutional budgets and student fees.

Eh, P5 TV revenues tend to render student fees to a minor consideration.

Meanwhile, Boise State is currently a bit freaked out about its budget. This pandemic nailed them in the nads.

Of course, how one spends TV money makes a difference with lower tier P5, but they shouldn’t be hurting that bad. The reason the PAC-12 freaks out so many fans is less because they’re running deficits and more because of a revenue gap vs the other P5s.

(01-20-2021 04:08 PM)Pounder Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 05:16 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  If the WAC becomes a FBS conference it won’t be based on anticipated revenue. There may be valid reasons in favor of FBS. Money is not one of those reasons. FBS is a financial black hole.

The additional revenue available to the vast majority of FBS schools doesn’t begin to pay the millions of dollars needed for expanding or upgrading facilities and increasing operating budgets.

Elite P5 schools pay their own way. Lower tier P5’s and all but a handful of G5’s pay for their athletic programs largely from institutional budgets and student fees.

Eh, P5 TV revenues tend to render student fees to a minor consideration.

Meanwhile, Boise State is currently a bit freaked out about its budget. This pandemic nailed them in the nads.

Of course, how one spends TV money makes a difference with lower tier P5, but they shouldn’t be hurting that bad. The reason the PAC-12 freaks out so many fans is less because they’re running deficits and more because of a revenue gap vs the other P5s.

Well. Yeah. That’s kind of the point.
For the SEC and a couple of other P5 schools TV money, ticket sales, licensing agreements, concessions, and donations overshadow student fees/institutional support.

For most everyone else institutional revenue makes up more than half the althletic budget. Without heavy subsidies athletics is a financial black hole unless you are Alabama or Texas and their slightly poorer neighbors.

So who is the odds on favorite for the 14th spot?

McNeese St
WTAMU
A&M Kingsville
A&M Commerce
Houston Baptist
Incarnate Word

I only mention schools in the Southwest because NMSU appears to be staying in the West per the press release.

(01-20-2021 07:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So who is the odds on favorite for the 14th spot?

McNeese St
WTAMU
A&M Kingsville
A&M Commerce
Houston Baptist
Incarnate Word

I only mention schools in the Southwest because NMSU appears to be staying in the West per the press release.

UCO?

Get Houston Baptist, Incarnate Word and Kingsville out of the thought process.

WT is the front runner.

I like the idea of UCO... they would need to upgrade or build a new arena

(01-20-2021 07:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So who is the odds on favorite for the 14th spot?

McNeese St
WTAMU
A&M Kingsville
A&M Commerce
Houston Baptist
Incarnate Word

I only mention schools in the Southwest because NMSU appears to be staying in the West per the press release.

From that list, the only 2 worth consideration are HBU or IWU. The WAC has no business expanding into Louisiana again. We are past taking D2 move ups and are swimming in them already. If we take more, we need to get the current crop fully eligible before we take any more.

With that said, HBU and IWU should receive prompt consideration, and a prompt no thank you.

But honestly, pick whoever, as long as the Aggies don't have to play them often.

If it were HBU or IWU, it would have happened already.

(01-20-2021 09:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If it were HBU or IWU, it would have happened already.

Oh god, we're getting something even worse then...

(01-20-2021 07:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So who is the odds on favorite for the 14th spot?

McNeese St
WTAMU
A&M Kingsville
A&M Commerce
Houston Baptist
Incarnate Word

I only mention schools in the Southwest because NMSU appears to be staying in the West per the press release.

WTAMU and A&M-Commerce have the funds, facilities and (most importantly) the respect of the other Texas 6 schools.

The new Texas (Southwest) Division is comprised of like-minded, public peer institutions. WTAMU or Commerce fit in there perfectly. None of the Texas schools would complain about either one. The Texas schools know they would only strengthen the conference.

(01-20-2021 07:09 PM)Johnny Crunch Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 07:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So who is the odds on favorite for the 14th spot?

McNeese St
WTAMU
A&M Kingsville
A&M Commerce
Houston Baptist
Incarnate Word

I only mention schools in the Southwest because NMSU appears to be staying in the West per the press release.

UCO?

Just looking at the Directors Cup standings for the recent past,, Wtamu is the only one of them listed with any shot of success in D1. The others are terrible. Like worse than about 100 other D2 schools some years. If you aren't even remotely competitive in D2, what's the point of wasting twice as much money to suck worse at a higher level.

Cal Bap, by comparison was winning the D2 title within a few years of moving from NAIA. These other schools have been around for decades and still suck at a lower level.

(01-20-2021 09:49 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If it were HBU or IWU, it would have happened already.

Oh god, we're getting something even worse then...

Other than being a D1 member already, HBU and UIW are not better schools than WTAMU and probably Commerce. Only talking about athletics and their potential, not academics.

Okay when the heck is everyone joining? I thought it was 2022 but Dixie’s volleyball story tonight on their site previewing the SUU match says they’ll be conference partners in 2021.

(01-20-2021 11:18 PM)Brillio Wrote:  Okay when the heck is everyone joining? I thought it was 2022 but Dixie’s volleyball story tonight on their site previewing the SUU match says they’ll be conference partners in 2021.

The new schools are all joining in ‘22. A situation unfolded just a few days before press conference which will necessitate the Texas schools joining early. It just had not been finalized yet, they are in words from the WAC, “petitioning the league” to join early. Probably some things that have to be worked out but Southern Utah would be only ‘22 add in that case

(01-20-2021 11:14 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:49 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If it were HBU or IWU, it would have happened already.

Oh god, we're getting something even worse then...

Other than being a D1 member already, HBU and UIW are not better schools than WTAMU and probably Commerce. Only talking about athletics and their potential, not academics.

The only problem with a school like commerce is the hubris to shoot high based on their potential. In 2016 they were 98th in D2 standings and 64th in 2017. Honestly, i dont think any D2 school from that mediocre level have ever moved up. Generally schools have lots of good sports for lots of years. This idea someone has one good year once, in one sport doesnt mean youve outgrown one division before you flop up a level. But apparently since Texas has about 20 other D1 schools who've done the same already, I guess that's a thing there. Meanwhile, California Baptist won the Cup their last year in D2 after their 2 previous top 4 finishes. They already had a brand new arena while D2. They didn't move up before they had any decent facilities and before they had a long history of success. They qualified 70% of all their teams for D2 nationals during their eligible time in D2.

West Texas, despite being located out in some absolutely ridiculous small town, is at least located by a something bigger. They could conceivably attract some fans. Their previous stint in D1 fell apart and they had poor attendance then, as they most likely will in the future. They are at less bad than all the other apparent options since we appear to have already been talked into taking another one. Now, how in the world one reaches a place like this for a game remains a mystery. Good luck Seattle.