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McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
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grapes Offline
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Post: #21
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 03:12 AM)grapes Wrote:  When I think about it y'all are right why would they leave.
Do you guys think the Big 12 will ever expand without anyone leaving or?

There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.
09-22-2020 02:11 PM
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Once a Knight... Offline
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Post: #22
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 03:12 AM)grapes Wrote:  When I think about it y'all are right why would they leave.
Do you guys think the Big 12 will ever expand without anyone leaving or?

There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).
09-23-2020 09:03 AM
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bullsbucsfan426 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 03:12 AM)grapes Wrote:  When I think about it y'all are right why would they leave.
Do you guys think the Big 12 will ever expand without anyone leaving or?

There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?
09-23-2020 09:36 AM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 03:12 AM)grapes Wrote:  When I think about it y'all are right why would they leave.
Do you guys think the Big 12 will ever expand without anyone leaving or?

There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

Yeah it's weird how that works. I talk to friends who follow SEC teams. Auburn fans root against Alabama under all circumstances. Mizzou only wants bad things for Kansas. I wonder how that all evolves. I currently find myself rooting for any AAC team in an OOC matchup, because I know that AAC wins benefit all of us. Wondering if there will ever be a time where I'm rooting for Florida against UCF or Baylor against Houston. THAT would be weird.
09-23-2020 09:38 AM
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Once a Knight... Offline
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Post: #25
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 09:38 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 03:12 AM)grapes Wrote:  When I think about it y'all are right why would they leave.
Do you guys think the Big 12 will ever expand without anyone leaving or?

There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

Yeah it's weird how that works. I talk to friends who follow SEC teams. Auburn fans root against Alabama under all circumstances. Mizzou only wants bad things for Kansas. I wonder how that all evolves. I currently find myself rooting for any AAC team in an OOC matchup, because I know that AAC wins benefit all of us. Wondering if there will ever be a time where I'm rooting for Florida against UCF or Baylor against Houston. THAT would be weird.

I guess when your conference is already basically at the top, you can root against your in-conference rival to do poorly, as it won't really do anything long-term to hurt the conference's perception. As a UCF fan, I have never liked USF, but I know UCF and USF are stronger (as is the AAC) when both are doing well. Just over the last decade USF (save for a few good season) has looked like an absolute dumpster fire that can't get over themselves. They are victims of their early success and being spoiled coming from nothing and very shortly being thrown into a power conference (and doing fairly well). They (well their fan base anyway), largely skipped the organic growth and taking your lumps that comes from playing in the non-power structure, and unlike UCF (where each conference move was a step forward), USF found themselves taking a big step back, and has never been able to swallow their pride and accept where they are now. Cincinnati went through exactly the same thing, but for whatever reason has made the most of their situation and are once again thriving. I think we've all discussed at length things that USF could do to improve their situation, but they had all the potential in the 00s, and potential in the 10s, but if they don't make changes, the 20s and beyond are looking bleak. I guess it just boils down to what is important to them, and if they can do things strategically, long term, rather than short-sightedly. I wonder if today the Big 12 were to expand if USF is even in the Top 10 best candidates anymore.
09-23-2020 09:45 AM
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Lurkercat Offline
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Post: #26
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 09:45 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:38 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

Yeah it's weird how that works. I talk to friends who follow SEC teams. Auburn fans root against Alabama under all circumstances. Mizzou only wants bad things for Kansas. I wonder how that all evolves. I currently find myself rooting for any AAC team in an OOC matchup, because I know that AAC wins benefit all of us. Wondering if there will ever be a time where I'm rooting for Florida against UCF or Baylor against Houston. THAT would be weird.

I guess when your conference is already basically at the top, you can root against your in-conference rival to do poorly, as it won't really do anything long-term to hurt the conference's perception. As a UCF fan, I have never liked USF, but I know UCF and USF are stronger (as is the AAC) when both are doing well. Just over the last decade USF (save for a few good season) has looked like an absolute dumpster fire that can't get over themselves. They are victims of their early success and being spoiled coming from nothing and very shortly being thrown into a power conference (and doing fairly well). They (well their fan base anyway), largely skipped the organic growth and taking your lumps that comes from playing in the non-power structure, and unlike UCF (where each conference move was a step forward), USF found themselves taking a big step back, and has never been able to swallow their pride and accept where they are now. Cincinnati went through exactly the same thing, but for whatever reason has made the most of their situation and are once again thriving. I think we've all discussed at length things that USF could do to improve their situation, but they had all the potential in the 00s, and potential in the 10s, but if they don't make changes, the 20s and beyond are looking bleak. I guess it just boils down to what is important to them, and if they can do things strategically, long term, rather than short-sightedly. I wonder if today the Big 12 were to expand if USF is even in the Top 10 best candidates anymore.

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm sure going from the big east to the aac hasn't helped usf, but I think it's more about how a bad hire can absolutely wreck a program. They've been set back years and are now starting from pretty much 0
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2020 11:15 AM by Lurkercat.)
09-23-2020 10:33 AM
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Once a Knight... Offline
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Post: #27
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 10:33 AM)Lurkercat Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:45 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:38 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

Yeah it's weird how that works. I talk to friends who follow SEC teams. Auburn fans root against Alabama under all circumstances. Mizzou only wants bad things for Kansas. I wonder how that all evolves. I currently find myself rooting for any AAC team in an OOC matchup, because I know that AAC wins benefit all of us. Wondering if there will ever be a time where I'm rooting for Florida against UCF or Baylor against Houston. THAT would be weird.

I guess when your conference is already basically at the top, you can root against your in-conference rival to do poorly, as it won't really do anything long-term to hurt the conference's perception. As a UCF fan, I have never liked USF, but I know UCF and USF are stronger (as is the AAC) when both are doing well. Just over the last decade USF (save for a few good season) has looked like an absolute dumpster fire that can't get over themselves. They are victims of their early success and being spoiled coming from nothing and very shortly being thrown into a power conference (and doing fairly well). They (well their fan base anyway), largely skipped the organic growth and taking your lumps that comes from playing in the non-power structure, and unlike UCF (where each conference move was a step forward), USF found themselves taking a big step back, and has never been able to swallow their pride and accept where they are now. Cincinnati went through exactly the same thing, but for whatever reason has made the most of their situation and are once again thriving. I think we've all discussed at length things that USF could do to improve their situation, but they had all the potential in the 00s, and potential in the 10s, but if they don't make changes, the 20s and beyond are looking bleak. I guess it just boils down to what is important to them, and if they can do things strategically, long term, rather than short-sightedly. I wonder if today the Big 12 were to expand if USF is even in the Top 10 best candidates anymore.

Maybe I'm wrong am I'm sure going from the big east to the aac has helped usf, but I think it's more about how a bad hire can absolutely wreck a program. They've been set back years and are now starting from pretty much 0

That is a very good point. My question is how did Skip Holtz have such success with ECU then fall on his face at USF? There are many factors though than just a bad hire. USF had their two best seasons in program history while members of the American in 2016 and 2017, but the fanbase simply didn't care. #WhereAreTheFans?
09-23-2020 11:08 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #28
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 09:36 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 03:12 AM)grapes Wrote:  When I think about it y'all are right why would they leave.
Do you guys think the Big 12 will ever expand without anyone leaving or?

There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?

Yep. The last raid and the set up of the “Power” structure was supposed to end “uppity” schools like Cincinnati once and for all. When Pitt, Syracuse and then lager WVU left the Big East, they did a special on ESPN titled “The Big Least” and Mark May said without hesitation the schools left in the conference should not be allowed to play in a meaningful bowl game again.
The schools could not stand seeing the likes of UC, USF and others playing in Prime Time, winning recruiting battles over middle tier “Power” schools, getting ranked, playing in better bowl games, etc.

So they set up the autonomy system. They had hoped it would be the end. The truth is there will always be programs striving to be better. They will upgrade facilities, hire the right coaches, attract good student athletes. You can’t stop people from wanting to better themselves.
09-23-2020 11:14 AM
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Lurkercat Offline
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Post: #29
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 11:14 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:36 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?

Yep. The last raid and the set up of the “Power” structure was supposed to end “uppity” schools like Cincinnati once and for all. When Pitt, Syracuse and then lager WVU left the Big East, they did a special on ESPN titled “The Big Least” and Mark May said without hesitation the schools left in the conference should not be allowed to play in a meaningful bowl game again.
The schools could not stand seeing the likes of UC, USF and others playing in Prime Time, winning recruiting battles over middle tier “Power” schools, getting ranked, playing in better bowl games, etc.

So they set up the autonomy system. They had hoped it would be the end. The truth is there will always be programs striving to be better. They will upgrade facilities, hire the right coaches, attract good student athletes. You can’t stop people from wanting to better themselves.

Ironically I think it's easier to get a NY6 bowl in this conference than in theirs. Aac winner has went to like 5 out of 7 I think. Meanwhile I don't think our old BE buddies have really even been close. Even louisville needed to be in this conference to get a NY6 bowl lol they couldn't even make one with a heisman winner

Now making the playoffs is another story.... But they haven't been close to that either
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2020 11:37 AM by Lurkercat.)
09-23-2020 11:36 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #30
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 11:36 AM)Lurkercat Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 11:14 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:36 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?

Yep. The last raid and the set up of the “Power” structure was supposed to end “uppity” schools like Cincinnati once and for all. When Pitt, Syracuse and then lager WVU left the Big East, they did a special on ESPN titled “The Big Least” and Mark May said without hesitation the schools left in the conference should not be allowed to play in a meaningful bowl game again.
The schools could not stand seeing the likes of UC, USF and others playing in Prime Time, winning recruiting battles over middle tier “Power” schools, getting ranked, playing in better bowl games, etc.

So they set up the autonomy system. They had hoped it would be the end. The truth is there will always be programs striving to be better. They will upgrade facilities, hire the right coaches, attract good student athletes. You can’t stop people from wanting to better themselves.

Ironically I think it's easier to get a NY6 bowl in this conference than in theirs. Aac winner has went to like 5 out of 7 I think. Meanwhile I don't think our old BE buddies have really even been close. Even louisville needed to be in this conference to get a NY6 bowl lol they couldn't even make one with a heisman winner

Now making the playoffs is another story.... But they haven't been close to that either

I wouldn't quite go that far. You win the ACC you get an automatic birth to a NY6. Its possible in the ACC to get a CFP spot and a NY6, if the NY6 team had a 11-12 win season with their one loss being Clemson.

Syracuse, Pitt and BC can't breakthrough in the ACC because those administrations gave up on winning at the highest levels in FB long ago. They have a nice season every now and then, but in this era they are not doing the things necessary-- hiring the right coaches, recruiting the athletes, to compete at the top. Heck, Syracuse and Pitt weren't even getting it done in the Big East from 2005-2012. UC, Louisville and USF were much hungrier.
09-23-2020 12:09 PM
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Lurkercat Offline
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Post: #31
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 12:09 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 11:36 AM)Lurkercat Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 11:14 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:36 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?

Yep. The last raid and the set up of the “Power” structure was supposed to end “uppity” schools like Cincinnati once and for all. When Pitt, Syracuse and then lager WVU left the Big East, they did a special on ESPN titled “The Big Least” and Mark May said without hesitation the schools left in the conference should not be allowed to play in a meaningful bowl game again.
The schools could not stand seeing the likes of UC, USF and others playing in Prime Time, winning recruiting battles over middle tier “Power” schools, getting ranked, playing in better bowl games, etc.

So they set up the autonomy system. They had hoped it would be the end. The truth is there will always be programs striving to be better. They will upgrade facilities, hire the right coaches, attract good student athletes. You can’t stop people from wanting to better themselves.

Ironically I think it's easier to get a NY6 bowl in this conference than in theirs. Aac winner has went to like 5 out of 7 I think. Meanwhile I don't think our old BE buddies have really even been close. Even louisville needed to be in this conference to get a NY6 bowl lol they couldn't even make one with a heisman winner

Now making the playoffs is another story.... But they haven't been close to that either

I wouldn't quite go that far. You win the ACC you get an automatic birth to a NY6. Its possible in the ACC to get a CFP spot and a NY6, if the NY6 team had a 11-12 win season with their one loss being Clemson.

Syracuse, Pitt and BC can't breakthrough in the ACC because those administrations gave up on winning at the highest levels in FB long ago. They have a nice season every now and then, but in this era they are not doing the things necessary-- hiring the right coaches, recruiting the athletes, to compete at the top. Heck, Syracuse and Pitt weren't even getting it done in the Big East from 2005-2012. UC, Louisville and USF were much hungrier.

You are correct. I didn't word what I was trying to say very well. What I meant was that it's easier to get a NY6 in the AAC than it is for the old BE schools in their current conferences. Pitt/louisville/syracuse kind of have it easy because I think the acc sucks, but they have yet to prove they can capitalize. If FSU or Miami get back to form they're really going to have a tough time getting a NY6

West virginia is also having a tough time dealing with ou/texas/baylor/tcu
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2020 12:17 PM by Lurkercat.)
09-23-2020 12:15 PM
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virgosports Offline
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Post: #32
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-21-2020 01:36 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(09-21-2020 01:26 PM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  
(09-21-2020 01:19 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Absolutely true. He said the Big 12 has two teams at the top and then a lot of mediocrity. OU definitely would be the best team in the AAC, but beyond them and Texas, the Big 12 has nothing. They've been owned by the Sun Belt. The AAC has at least 4 teams that would handle anyone in the Big 12 except OU and Texas.

I wouldn't say that no one in the AAC could handle Texas either. I think any one of Cincy, Memphis, or UCF could possibly beat them. It's OU, then everyone else.

I think Texas wants no part of SMU either. UCF/Cincy would be even money or advantage. Memphis and SMU would definitely give them a game.

Versus OU I think Cincy could win with a ground, possesion control type game, Army showed they are vulnerable to that type. UCF it's a shoot out like the Baylor game for OU last year. I think OU would be favored by one or two TDs against either. Memphis and SMU probably don't match up well.

So I would say its

1. OU
2. UCF/Cincy
3A. Texas, Memphis
3B. SMU
4. OSU, Kansas St, Navy, TCU, WVU
5. Iowa St, Tulane, Kansas
6. Texas Tech, Tulsa
7. USF

Baylor, Houston, Temple, ECU haven't played yet. Baylor, Houston and Temple are probably a 4/5.

Would put Tulsa ahead of Texas tech, Tulane, Iowa. St and Kansas and probably kansas st and navy as well behind Osu.
09-23-2020 12:19 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 09:36 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 03:12 AM)grapes Wrote:  When I think about it y'all are right why would they leave.
Do you guys think the Big 12 will ever expand without anyone leaving or?

There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?

Close. Just saw a story today saying that they are probably going to wait until November to release the criteria considered for the CFP. i.e. they'll wait until a bunch of games have been played, then re-write the rules to get the teams that have paid their dues into the playoff.

Link: College Football Playoff eligibility up in the air as teams juggle disparate schedules, COVID-19 postponements

"The Power Five have been divided in their approach to nearly everything since the COVID-19 pandemic began -- whether to play, returning to play, schedules, coronavirus testing, game postponements, etc. But the next, most important consideration by the biggest, richest conferences cannot be ignored much longer. After all, it's a huge reason why they're playing in the first place.

That would be a shot at the College Football Playoff and its riches.

To get there, stakeholders must decide what will actually define CFP eligibility this season. COVID-19 has ravaged schedules and rosters. Eighteen games from retooled schedules have been canceled or postponed, including one that was a late-replacement game.

If the Pac-12 approves a fall schedule this week, there is a real possibility the Power Five conferences could play four different amounts of regular-season games.

Try that eye test on for size.

"There is a conversation to be had [about eligibility], and it's probably not going to be had right away. We're all going to have to see how many games we get in," Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby said.

Bowlsby is part of the 11-member CFP Management Committee that sets policy for the playoff. That committee includes commissioners of the 10 FBS conferences and Notre athletic director Jack Swarbrick.

There are growing concerns among the group that comparisons of teams in contention for the playoff -- already a difficult task for the CFP Selection Committee -- could be complicated by contenders playing a disparate number of games.

The conversation boils down to this: What if a 6-0 team impacted by COVID-19 has to be compared to a 9-2 team able to play its full schedule?

It could get more complicated. What if that 6-0 team is Alabama, and it's not eligible because policy sets the minimum for eligibility at seven games?

That's why there is hesitancy by those leaders -- whether to move swiftly or at all. The management committee could punt and leave the decision up to the 13-member selection committee itself. Let them decide the playoff (and seed the New Year's Six bowls).

Bowlsby speculated that a final decision may not have to be made until early November."
09-23-2020 12:49 PM
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bullsbucsfan426 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 12:15 PM)Lurkercat Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 12:09 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 11:36 AM)Lurkercat Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 11:14 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:36 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?

Yep. The last raid and the set up of the “Power” structure was supposed to end “uppity” schools like Cincinnati once and for all. When Pitt, Syracuse and then lager WVU left the Big East, they did a special on ESPN titled “The Big Least” and Mark May said without hesitation the schools left in the conference should not be allowed to play in a meaningful bowl game again.
The schools could not stand seeing the likes of UC, USF and others playing in Prime Time, winning recruiting battles over middle tier “Power” schools, getting ranked, playing in better bowl games, etc.

So they set up the autonomy system. They had hoped it would be the end. The truth is there will always be programs striving to be better. They will upgrade facilities, hire the right coaches, attract good student athletes. You can’t stop people from wanting to better themselves.

Ironically I think it's easier to get a NY6 bowl in this conference than in theirs. Aac winner has went to like 5 out of 7 I think. Meanwhile I don't think our old BE buddies have really even been close. Even louisville needed to be in this conference to get a NY6 bowl lol they couldn't even make one with a heisman winner

Now making the playoffs is another story.... But they haven't been close to that either

I wouldn't quite go that far. You win the ACC you get an automatic birth to a NY6. Its possible in the ACC to get a CFP spot and a NY6, if the NY6 team had a 11-12 win season with their one loss being Clemson.

Syracuse, Pitt and BC can't breakthrough in the ACC because those administrations gave up on winning at the highest levels in FB long ago. They have a nice season every now and then, but in this era they are not doing the things necessary-- hiring the right coaches, recruiting the athletes, to compete at the top. Heck, Syracuse and Pitt weren't even getting it done in the Big East from 2005-2012. UC, Louisville and USF were much hungrier.

You are correct. I didn't word what I was trying to say very well. What I meant was that it's easier to get a NY6 in the AAC than it is for the old BE schools in their current conferences. Pitt/louisville/syracuse kind of have it easy because I think the acc sucks, but they have yet to prove they can capitalize. If FSU or Miami get back to form they're really going to have a tough time getting a NY6

West virginia is also having a tough time dealing with ou/texas/baylor/tcu

It's as if someone cursed the teams that left the Big East. Miami has been nationally relevant a grand total of once when they joined the ACC- in 2017 and even then Clemson destroyed them. You could make a case for Virginia Tech, but every time there's an elite national contender like FSU or Clemson, they promptly got run over. Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville have been average at best, although Louisville has made a much stronger effort to be competitive (and invest resources into their program). WVU is surviving and would have been better off staying in the BE for their travel schedules. Syracuse and Pitt...those two schools started the BE collapse and promptly collapsed themselves, and don't even get me started on Rutgers-they have completely tanked in the B1G.

They should have stayed and kicked the C7 to the curb. A football-focused BE would have easily been as strong as any of the A5 today and would be a contract conference. Louisville, USF, UCF, WVU, Memphis, Cincy, Rutgers, and Pitt would be a multi-tentpole. It's frankly Absurd that Pitt and Syracuse somehow made this a power conference.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2020 02:05 PM by bullsbucsfan426.)
09-23-2020 02:03 PM
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knightmite Offline
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Post: #35
RE: McElroy says the American is deeper than the Big 12
(09-23-2020 11:14 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:36 AM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  
(09-23-2020 09:03 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 02:11 PM)grapes Wrote:  
(09-22-2020 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There is too much of a cultural and institutional bias against the expansion front runners from this conference (UC, Memphis, Houston, UCF/USF). They built this autonomy structure to further subjugate the likes of us.

The only reason I would even want to change conferences at this point is just because of football. I've really grown to love the schools in our conference. I just don't think it's fair how we're viewed football wise.

Yes, I feel the same, getting the golden ticket punched to a P5 league would be bittersweet. I have grown to love the programs in this AAC conference (many of which I grew to love during our time in C-USA). It would feel so strange moving to a new conference with teams we've never had any history with. What's most saddening is how the Big East/AAC couldn't maintain the power status. Once upon a time when we were invited to the Big East it felt like we FINALLY had arrived, only to have the rug pulled out from under us. Was this a cost-saving move by the TV networks? What was the real reason to kick the Big East / AAC out of the establishment club? Is it possible they never wanted them there in the first place since they were really the newest "power" member in football (aside from the Big 12 merger with top SWC).

They got tired of programs that had just arrived on the scene upsetting the apple cart. USF and Cincy were a big part of that, but I think what really did it in for them was UConn going to the Fiesta Bowl. Note that not one of the programs they took from the Big East has won anything of importance in their new conference, while the schools left behind (no longer including UConn) have finished in the top 25 multiple times. If anything, the AAC is hated now for actually being an even stronger conference than the Big East. I wonder what would happen if an AAC team got into the playoff. Would they have to rework the payouts that basically give A5 teams 20 million a year just for being in a A5 conference (not counting the TV contract here)?

Yep. The last raid and the set up of the “Power” structure was supposed to end “uppity” schools like Cincinnati once and for all. When Pitt, Syracuse and then lager WVU left the Big East, they did a special on ESPN titled “The Big Least” and Mark May said without hesitation the schools left in the conference should not be allowed to play in a meaningful bowl game again.
The schools could not stand seeing the likes of UC, USF and others playing in Prime Time, winning recruiting battles over middle tier “Power” schools, getting ranked, playing in better bowl games, etc.

So they set up the autonomy system. They had hoped it would be the end. The truth is there will always be programs striving to be better. They will upgrade facilities, hire the right coaches, attract good student athletes. You can’t stop people from wanting to better themselves.

You can't stop them from wanting to better themselves but you can stop them from being successful in bettering themselves by unequal financial resources and access to the best athletes due to playoff access. How many times does the horse get the carrot dangling in front of it? Never...unless the owner decides to give it to the horse.
09-24-2020 12:31 PM
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