(09-21-2020 08:58 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 08:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It’s interesting to me people will argue that schools like Cincinnati and a Memphis are nobodies in football, yet at the same time they do not get the same “under dog” cred that an Appy State or Boise gets. Either they are a nobody who should get rooted for when they do well, or their are actually somebody which prevents them from getting the same affection those other schools receive.

They have too much money, tradition, name brand, and nice facilities to get the underdog affection of an App State or Boise. App State, in terms of financial resources and being from an isolated, really small town, has the reputation for punching way above their weight. Boise State has that underdog status for being in a lightly populated state with few high school prospects and for its status as a former junior college. App's head coaches, without bonuses, have been making only about $600,000.

Cincy and Memphis, without looking up their exact figures, have to pay well north of $1.5M. Their resources keep them from having that same notion that "they shouldn't be as good as they are, yet here they are." On the contrary, Cincy and Memphis SHOULD be dominant G5 teams who may not be able to take down top 5-10 teams like Ohio State (no different from the vast majority of P5's), but can compete with just about anyone outside of that.

I would push back on any notion that they're "nobodies." At the same time they fall just short of P5 status. Cincy in particular, along with, I'd say, BYU, Houston, UCF, and a football-only Navy, is somewhere between #1 and #5 to be next in line for the P5, but for the foreseeable future, they're still on the outside looking in. And Memphis certainly has P5-like resources. Both, though, remain on the outside, and that keeps them from being relative "somebodies."

And by the way, don't misinterpret my assessment as a suggestion that this treatment is fair. It is just the way it is.

I agree with all this.

(09-21-2020 09:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 12:00 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  Like Bill, I also have recollections of the 1960s and 1970s, when Memphis was being described by sportscasters such as Curt Gowdy and Keith Jackson as a regional powerhouse that could "knock off the best of 'em" (as Keith Jackson might have put it).

Bottom line is, in that entire history before the BCS, really before the mid-2000s, Memphis had never spent a week ranked in the AP poll, and had been to one bowl game, a weird game in 1971 where they somehow got in on a 4-6 record.

That was their entire national history until that point in time.

What was the Pasadena Bowl anyway?

December 14, 1946 Compton College 19 Kilgore College, TX 0
December 13, 1947 Chaffey College 39 Cameron College, OK 26
December 11, 1948 Compton College 48 Duluth Junior College, MN 14
December 10, 1949 Little Rock Jr. College, AR 25 Santa Ana College 19
December 9, 1950 Long Beach City College 33 Boise Junior College, ID 13
December 8, 1951 Pasadena City College 28 Tyler Junior College, TX 26
December 13, 1952 Hartnell College, CA 20 Bacone Junior College, OK 20
December 12, 1953 Bakersfield College 13 Northeastern Oklahoma A&M 6
December 11, 1954 Hinds Junior College, MS 13 El Camino College 7
December 10, 1955 Compton College 22 Jones Co. Jr. College, MS 13
December 8, 1956 Arlington Junior College, TX 20 Compton College 13
December 14, 1957 Arlington Junior College, TX 21 Cerritos College 12
December 13, 1958 Santa Monica College 30 Northeastern Oklahoma A&M 12
December 12, 1959 Bakersfield College 30 Del Mar College, TX 14
December 10, 1960 Long Beach City College 38 Tyler Junior College, TX 16
December 9, 1961 Cameron College, OK 28 Bakersfield College 20
December 8, 1962 Santa Ana College 20 Columbia Basin College, WA 0
December 14, 1963 Orange Coast College 21 Northeastern Oklahoma A&M 0
December 12, 1964 Long Beach City College 28 Cameron College, OK 6
December 11, 1965 Fullerton College 20 Henderson Co. Jr. College, TX 15
December 10, 1966 Henderson Co. Jr. College, TX 40 Pasadena City College 13
December 2, 1967 West Texas State 35 San Fernando Valley State 13
December 7, 1968 Grambling State 34 Sacramento State 7
December 6, 1969 San Diego State 28 Boston University 7
December 19, 1970 Louisville 24 Long Beach State 24
December 18, 1971 Memphis State 28 San Jose State 9
December 11, 1976 Bakersfield College 29 Ellsworth CC, IA 14
December 10, 1977 Pasadena City College 38 Jones County JC, MS 9

I've been known for some long posts, but this thread has quite a few that should be marked "TLDR."

(09-21-2020 09:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 12:00 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  Like Bill, I also have recollections of the 1960s and 1970s, when Memphis was being described by sportscasters such as Curt Gowdy and Keith Jackson as a regional powerhouse that could "knock off the best of 'em" (as Keith Jackson might have put it).

Bottom line is, in that entire history before the BCS, really before the mid-2000s, Memphis had never spent a week ranked in the AP poll, and had been to one bowl game, a weird game in 1971 where they somehow got in on a 4-6 record.

That was their entire national history until that point in time.

I can assure you that before the 2000s, around the country Memphis was entirely known for hoops, not football. The notion that 1970s Memphis football was regarded by anyone as "major" just does not comport with reality.

Quo, you disappoint me, my good man. How could you forget that Memphis played East Tennessee State in the 1956 Burley Bowl (which the Tigers won 32-12). I've heard the story many times from my Pops.

From Wiki:

The Burley Bowl was a postseason college football bowl game played from 1945 through 1956.[1] It was held each year on Thanksgiving Day in Johnson City, Tennessee, at the city's Memorial Stadium, which was demolished in July 2010.[2] The game was part of an annual two-day tobacco festival,[3] with the name of the bowl coming from Burley tobacco. Like some other postseason match-ups of the era, such as the Grape Bowl, Glass Bowl, and Optimist Bowl, results are listed in NCAA records, but the games were not considered NCAA-sanctioned bowls.[1]

(09-21-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 08:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It’s interesting to me people will argue that schools like Cincinnati and a Memphis are nobodies in football, yet at the same time they do not get the same “under dog” cred that an Appy State or Boise gets. Either they are a nobody who should get rooted for when they do well, or their are actually somebody which prevents them from getting the same affection those other schools receive.

That is because anyway you argue it the AAC is a major football conference. Salaries and TV exposure, fan support just isn't mid major.

Well, unless the "way you argue it" is that the P5 are major and the G5 are mid-major.

Which I think happens to be the way about 98.6% of all college football fans would argue it.

There is a distinction between power which is the P5 and then a major conference like the Big East or AAC with significant TV deals.

G5 should be viewed as major by default as FBS conferences compared to mid major FCS leagues. MAC pays 2x or greater than any FCS league pays for its FB coaches as a rule of thumb.

(09-21-2020 09:07 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I spent some days reflecting on this very thought this weekend. Not easy to predict or project by any means, especially during this unfortunate era of COVID, but here is my stab at it.

A year ago, I would have said that the P5 was very much united in a pathway to eventually breakaway, separate or stipulate the parameters so strongly in their favor that they, in essence, would officially be within their own subdivision of D1. The last month has shown that not only are the P5 not united during a pandemic (which, in theory, you would want a powerful organization making decisions together - even if that meant certain schools/programs playing and others not), but that conferences themselves are not only not on the same page, they aren't even reading the same book (i.e. the B1G). The G5, much like the P5 in COVID, had individual conferences and individual schools make decisions on their won, without consultation or mutual decision with other G5 leagues. Thus, the on-going associations of the P5 and G5 are not as set in stone as I had previously thought before COVID.

Having said that, the money, revenue and resources will continue to create a gap and separation, if you will. It is more than safe to say that all schools and athletic programs will be significantly hurt in revenues this year. Ticket sales are already non-existent/way down. Fans are not traveling to campuses. Athletic departments are making cuts everywhere. However, the elites/upper class that already live in the luxurious homes are still much better off than the middle and lower class programs that either need to downsize to an even smaller residence, or be without a home altogether. Even before COVID, the top of the G5 was heavily subsidizing their athletic departments and football programs via artificial methods. If you have a Tilman Fertitta, who can individually support an athletic department by himself, it obviously becomes easier; however, those without the billionaire backing, it makes life that much more difficult.

Its a crisis and its making the downward slide in ticket sales even worse for the biggest programs.

What do you to generate more revenue? You need to expand. Either expand the conference and/or expand the CFP.

Either result would be positive for the G5. Realignment allows for G5 conferences to retool membership. Think of the SBC today and the one from 10 years ago. Expanded CFP is expanded revenue and expanded access.

Eight team playoff with 2 more access bowls (Citrus, Alamo). Make a rule that any G5 champion in the Top 25 receives a bowl, in addition to the auto qualifier. That would create room for an App St while ensuring quality remains high (no 8-5 Miami Oh).

(09-21-2020 02:07 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 08:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It’s interesting to me people will argue that schools like Cincinnati and a Memphis are nobodies in football, yet at the same time they do not get the same “under dog” cred that an Appy State or Boise gets. Either they are a nobody who should get rooted for when they do well, or their are actually somebody which prevents them from getting the same affection those other schools receive.

That is because anyway you argue it the AAC is a major football conference. Salaries and TV exposure, fan support just isn't mid major.

Well, unless the "way you argue it" is that the P5 are major and the G5 are mid-major.

Which I think happens to be the way about 98.6% of all college football fans would argue it.

There is a distinction between power which is the P5 and then a major conference like the Big East or AAC with significant TV deals.

G5 should be viewed as major by default as FBS conferences compared to mid major FCS leagues. MAC pays 2x or greater than any FCS league pays for its FB coaches as a rule of thumb.

You are correct, good sir.

Tiers in football (as a general rule)

Power league/high-major programs (the P5)

Major programs (the G5)

Mid-major programs (FCS, the former Division I-AA)

Low-major programs (some call "small college football" but that seems a bit insulting): NCAA Division 2, 3 and NAIA

The thing that most people seem to forget is that "Power," in this discussion, has NOTHING to do with on-field success or "quality" of the product. The "Power" in "Power5" is purely about MONEY and autonomy. Either you have it, or you don't.

I love the Cincinnati Bearcats. But they are on the wrong side of the equation. Rutgers can suck year after year, but they have the $$$$. Without the $$$$, you're on the outside looking in. It is what it is.

Life's not fair.

In 20 years, I expect to be on year 20 of Marshall's absolute domination of the G5.

(09-22-2020 12:06 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  In 20 years, I expect to be on year 20 of Marshall's absolute domination of the G5.

Yup. Appalachian has arrived at the point where beating them is the biggest accomplishment for a G5 team in years and years. It even brings players to tears.

Quote:HUNTINGTON, W.Va. – History was made at Joan C. Edwards Stadium on Saturday.

In so many ways.

Marshall defeated No. 23 Appalachian State, 17-7, in a front of a prime-time nationally televised audience on CBS, the Thundering Herd football program's first win against an FBS Top 25 team in 30 seasons of the stadium's existence. It was Marshall's first win against a ranked team in 17 years, and first win against a Top 25 team here in Huntington in 44 years.

How'd this all unfold in front of the eyes of the nation? Well, that requires historical context, too. The visiting Mountaineers – the Sun Belt champions the past three seasons – were held to their fewest points since moving from FCS (formerly I-AA) to FBS in 2014. Offensively, App State's 96 rushing yards were the fewest for the North Carolina-based program in the past six seasons. Defensively, the Mountaineers have won 29 consecutive games when surrendering fewer than 200 rushing yards, but Marshall knocked that statistic out of relevance with 216 yards on the ground.

Whew. No wonder 11th-year Herd head coach Doc Holliday, who won his 80th career game, received an ice bath in the twilight of the fourth quarter.

That made for one damp polo shirt … and perhaps some watery eyes.

"I could cry," Marshall running back Brenden Knox said. "I was just telling the offensive line, the defense, this is something you can talk about – once you leave here – for the rest of your life. Not many people get to do that. Being able to knock off a Top 25 team, that's what people dream about."

https://herdzone.com/news/2020/9/19/foot...state.aspx

Marshall is now App State, Boise State, UCF, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and Navy combined after beating Appalachian State.

In all seriousness, I heard nothing but good things about Marshall fansfrom App fans who went up there. Pure class and hospitality. One App fan said a lady offered him gas money! I hope this series gets many more games in the future.

(09-21-2020 11:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The thing that most people seem to forget is that "Power," in this discussion, has NOTHING to do with on-field success or "quality" of the product. The "Power" in "Power5" is purely about MONEY and autonomy. Either you have it, or you don't.

I love the Cincinnati Bearcats. But they are on the wrong side of the equation. Rutgers can suck year after year, but they have the $$$$. Without the $$$$, you're on the outside looking in. It is what it is.

Life's not fair.

You are correct, good sir. And it's why the American is not a "power" league in football.

Now in basketball and baseball ... a different situation and definition.

(09-21-2020 10:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 08:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It’s interesting to me people will argue that schools like Cincinnati and a Memphis are nobodies in football, yet at the same time they do not get the same “under dog” cred that an Appy State or Boise gets. Either they are a nobody who should get rooted for when they do well, or their are actually somebody which prevents them from getting the same affection those other schools receive.

That is because anyway you argue it the AAC is a major football conference. Salaries and TV exposure, fan support just isn't mid major.

Well, unless the "way you argue it" is that the P5 are major and the G5 are mid-major.

Which I think happens to be the way about 98.6% of all college football fans would argue it.

That's not the way the folks I talk to see it, Quo — and most of these are "SEC people" who can be a bit playfully arrogant at times. They classify DI programs as either "power" (essentially those schools in the P5) or "major (essentially those in the G5).

"Mid-major" to them is FCS.

So the average Tennessee fan I talk to would have your USF football program and my Cincy and Memphis programs as "major" and, as I noted, Alabama as "power" (or "high-major").

No fair-minded, reasonable and knowledgable college football fan/media member I discuss this with in Nashville would classify Memphis or Cincinnati football as "mid-major." As they see it (and I do too), if you are DI, you are essentially major. Now within that "major" grouping ... yes, there are "tiers," if you will.

If I might use my two favorite programs: Vanderbilt and Memphis. Only a buffoon would classify Vanderbilt as a "major program" more than Memphis in every single metric. Vanderbilt is "more major" than Memphis primarily (and perhaps overwhelmingly) in league affiliation/schedule. In terms of history (modest for both), attendance, players sent to the NFL, number of winning seasons, name recognition of coaches, etc., it's essentially a toss-up at this point. Clearly, Memphis has the more "major" program currently in terms of success.

Vanderbilt unfairly benefits from being in the SEC and Memphis is unfairly penalized for being in the AAC.

Bill, I guess we have different experiences. E.g. here in Louisiana, nobody regards anyone but LSU as a "major" football programs. All of the various FBS programs, the ULLs and USLs and LA-Techs and ULMs etc. are mid-major programs.

Likewise in hoops, the major programs are the P6, while the non-P6 are mid-majors, though there are programmatic exceptions (e.g., Cincy, Gonzaga and Memphis are major programs in mid-major conferences).

It didn't used to be this way - e.g., these days, Vanderbilt is a Power program by definition, because it's in a P5 conference. Ditto for Rutgers, as awful as they are. They are an Awful Power Program, LOL.

But 30 years ago, conference membership alone didn't guarantee major/power designation. When people called the Big 8 the "big two and little six", they were labeling the Kansases and Iowa States of the Big 8 mid-major programs.

(09-21-2020 02:07 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 08:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It’s interesting to me people will argue that schools like Cincinnati and a Memphis are nobodies in football, yet at the same time they do not get the same “under dog” cred that an Appy State or Boise gets. Either they are a nobody who should get rooted for when they do well, or their are actually somebody which prevents them from getting the same affection those other schools receive.

That is because anyway you argue it the AAC is a major football conference. Salaries and TV exposure, fan support just isn't mid major.

Well, unless the "way you argue it" is that the P5 are major and the G5 are mid-major.

Which I think happens to be the way about 98.6% of all college football fans would argue it.

There is a distinction between power which is the P5 and then a major conference like the Big East or AAC with significant TV deals.

G5 should be viewed as major by default as FBS conferences compared to mid major FCS leagues. MAC pays 2x or greater than any FCS league pays for its FB coaches as a rule of thumb.

I disagree. FBS does not equal "major". I don't think "major" really exists. There are Power programs and mid-major programs, and they correspond to P5 and G5.

In hoops, it is slightly different, because the Big East is effectively a Power conference. On every metric it gets treated the same as the P5, the only reason the P5 make a ton more money is they have football and the Big East doesn't. But the Big East is a Power hoops conference.

(09-22-2020 09:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 10:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 08:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It’s interesting to me people will argue that schools like Cincinnati and a Memphis are nobodies in football, yet at the same time they do not get the same “under dog” cred that an Appy State or Boise gets. Either they are a nobody who should get rooted for when they do well, or their are actually somebody which prevents them from getting the same affection those other schools receive.

That is because anyway you argue it the AAC is a major football conference. Salaries and TV exposure, fan support just isn't mid major.

Well, unless the "way you argue it" is that the P5 are major and the G5 are mid-major.

Which I think happens to be the way about 98.6% of all college football fans would argue it.

That's not the way the folks I talk to see it, Quo — and most of these are "SEC people" who can be a bit playfully arrogant at times. They classify DI programs as either "power" (essentially those schools in the P5) or "major (essentially those in the G5).

"Mid-major" to them is FCS.

So the average Tennessee fan I talk to would have your USF football program and my Cincy and Memphis programs as "major" and, as I noted, Alabama as "power" (or "high-major").

No fair-minded, reasonable and knowledgable college football fan/media member I discuss this with in Nashville would classify Memphis or Cincinnati football as "mid-major." As they see it (and I do too), if you are DI, you are essentially major. Now within that "major" grouping ... yes, there are "tiers," if you will.

If I might use my two favorite programs: Vanderbilt and Memphis. Only a buffoon would classify Vanderbilt as a "major program" more than Memphis in every single metric. Vanderbilt is "more major" than Memphis primarily (and perhaps overwhelmingly) in league affiliation/schedule. In terms of history (modest for both), attendance, players sent to the NFL, number of winning seasons, name recognition of coaches, etc., it's essentially a toss-up at this point. Clearly, Memphis has the more "major" program currently in terms of success.

Vanderbilt unfairly benefits from being in the SEC and Memphis is unfairly penalized for being in the AAC.

Bill, I guess we have different experiences. E.g. here in Louisiana, nobody regards anyone but LSU as a "major" football programs. All of the various FBS programs, the ULLs and USLs and LA-Techs and ULMs etc. are mid-major programs.

Likewise in hoops, the major programs are the P6, while the non-P6 are mid-majors, though there are programmatic exceptions (e.g., Cincy, Gonzaga and Memphis are major programs in mid-major conferences).

It didn't used to be this way - e.g., these days, Vanderbilt is a Power program by definition, because it's in a P5 conference. Ditto for Rutgers, as awful as they are. They are an Awful Power Program, LOL.

But 30 years ago, conference membership alone didn't guarantee major/power designation. When people called the Big 8 the "big two and little six", they were labeling the Kansases and Iowa States of the Big 8 mid-major programs.

There clearly are lots of folks who agree with you, Quo. However, there are many others who take the approach I outlined previously. I suppose it can be rather subjective.

I simply make (and some others do, too) a distinction between a high-major/power program like Alabama and, to use your Bulls, a "major" program like USF, which can draw up to 40,000 per home game during a good season and pay its coach $2 million or more annually. That is "sufficiently major" in my book. The "mid-majors" are those that are lucky to draw 20,000 and pay their coaches $1M or less. Some of the G5 programs are like that and all of FCS (I-AA) is such.

As to hoops, I agree with you. There are upwards of 15 programs not in the P6 but that are considered major to high-major.

(09-22-2020 09:25 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 02:07 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 09:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-21-2020 08:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It’s interesting to me people will argue that schools like Cincinnati and a Memphis are nobodies in football, yet at the same time they do not get the same “under dog” cred that an Appy State or Boise gets. Either they are a nobody who should get rooted for when they do well, or their are actually somebody which prevents them from getting the same affection those other schools receive.

That is because anyway you argue it the AAC is a major football conference. Salaries and TV exposure, fan support just isn't mid major.

Well, unless the "way you argue it" is that the P5 are major and the G5 are mid-major.

Which I think happens to be the way about 98.6% of all college football fans would argue it.

There is a distinction between power which is the P5 and then a major conference like the Big East or AAC with significant TV deals.

G5 should be viewed as major by default as FBS conferences compared to mid major FCS leagues. MAC pays 2x or greater than any FCS league pays for its FB coaches as a rule of thumb.

I disagree. FBS does not equal "major". I don't think "major" really exists. There are Power programs and mid-major programs, and they correspond to P5 and G5.

In hoops, it is slightly different, because the Big East is effectively a Power conference. On every metric it gets treated the same as the P5, the only reason the P5 make a ton more money is they have football and the Big East doesn't. But the Big East is a Power hoops conference.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, Quo. But I would "tweak" this assessment in that many folks I talk to consider the Big East "power" in men's hoops only. In terms of endowments, academic budgets, national influence, enrollments, statewide fan bases for sports, research, number of schools in the USNews top 75, number of professional schools, etc., they do not consider the Big East a comprehensive "power" league.

As I have noted, and you might disagree, one could make the argument the American (in many respects) is every bit as "power" overall and comprehensively as the Big East when you consider the various metrics I just mentioned and the fact the AAC offers football and better baseball. Both the AAC and the Big East offer lots of positives.

I would almost argue that if anybody puts the Big East in the same overall "power" category as the true P5, she or he should also perhaps include the Ivy League (due to academics and influence).

Again, I might have misunderstood your point. My apologies if so.

The problem with some of these distinctions is that there is a ton of overlap. If you took a half dozen of the worst P5 schools and paired them against the top 6 G5 I’m doubtful that the P5 walk away with a winning record; they might not even come away with a win.

If the P5 were truly their own tier even their worst should be able to beat the best of the G5.

It all comes down to tent poles. The only thing separating the top 10 G5 programs and probably the bottom 25 of the P5 is that somewhere along the road the P programs hitched themselves to 2-3 real blue bloods.

(09-22-2020 06:34 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 12:06 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  In 20 years, I expect to be on year 20 of Marshall's absolute domination of the G5.

Yup. Appalachian has arrived at the point where beating them is the biggest accomplishment for a G5 team in years and years. It even brings players to tears.

Marshall is now App State, Boise State, UCF, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and Navy combined after beating Appalachian State.

Marshall was this list in the past. Our sleepwalking era since 2014 appears to be nearly over.

(09-22-2020 01:30 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 06:34 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 12:06 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  In 20 years, I expect to be on year 20 of Marshall's absolute domination of the G5.

Yup. Appalachian has arrived at the point where beating them is the biggest accomplishment for a G5 team in years and years. It even brings players to tears.

Marshall is now App State, Boise State, UCF, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and Navy combined after beating Appalachian State.

Marshall was this list in the past. Our sleepwalking era since 2014 appears to be nearly over.

For sure. In the first six years after the 1-AA/FCS to 1-A/FBS transition, App State is second to Marshall for success. Marshall was Boise State before Boise State went to the Fiesta Bowl. Marshall would have made at least one, if not multiple, BCS bowls in that era under the rules that changed around 2005 or 2006.

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

(09-22-2020 01:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The problem with some of these distinctions is that there is a ton of overlap. If you took a half dozen of the worst P5 schools and paired them against the top 6 G5 I’m doubtful that the P5 walk away with a winning record; they might not even come away with a win.

If the P5 were truly their own tier even their worst should be able to beat the best of the G5.

It all comes down to tent poles. The only thing separating the top 10 G5 programs and probably the bottom 25 of the P5 is that somewhere along the road the P programs hitched themselves to 2-3 real blue bloods.

This to me is key. I don't know the cutoff, but T25 G5 isnt it. Top 10, prolly isnt it, if we a talking national implications.

(09-22-2020 01:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The problem with some of these distinctions is that there is a ton of overlap. If you took a half dozen of the worst P5 schools and paired them against the top 6 G5 I’m doubtful that the P5 walk away with a winning record; they might not even come away with a win.

If the P5 were truly their own tier even their worst should be able to beat the best of the G5.

It all comes down to tent poles. The only thing separating the top 10 G5 programs and probably the bottom 25 of the P5 is that somewhere along the road the P programs hitched themselves to 2-3 real blue bloods.

Several years back Purdue came to Nippert and got smashed by UC 42-7. The Bearcats were bigger, stronger and faster at nearly every position group. If you were someone who knew nothing about college sports and you were told the school in red/black was only getting paid a few million a year on their TV contract and the other was in a prestigious conference getting $50M/year you would not believe it.

This past bowl season UC looked like men against boys against BC. Same as above. Playing in the AAC I can tell you UCF, Memphis and Houston has some hosses that a lot of these P5 schools wish they had.