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W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
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WMSportsBlog Offline
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W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
Fan reaction since W&M announced cuts to 7 sports teams has been strong and immediate.

We've compiled a list of fan comments in our recent article that expresses the W&M community's widespread frustration with the changes.

Article: https://wmsportsblog.com/2020/09/10/wm-c...reactions/
09-10-2020 03:46 PM
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Tribal Offline
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W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
Just decided to not include any of the more scathing posts? I don't think the posts you provided accurately represents fan reaction on your Facebook page.

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09-10-2020 06:37 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
Did anybody really believe cuts weren't coming....several just missed being cut four years ago. Seven may be more than many thought
would occur, but it cannot be a surprise.

We had 23 sports, more than many Power Five universities and certainly more than schools on our level, an economic burden that had
to be adjusted down.

There always is a big negative reaction when it finally happens, but a shock? No.

Swimming lived in absolute invisibility for decades and most of its existence...and women's volleyball is and was a terrible program doing nothing but taking away
practice time for the women's and men's basketball teams. And did anyone ever look at where the women volleyball players came from? Allmost
all from expensive to travel Western states. And swimming has, and has no future in getting, a natatorium or even a real pool with diving with any real
facility for spectators.

The only sports with longtime tradition at W&M were men's track & field and gymnastics. And the latter is a noy-so-slowly dying sport at universities, down to less
than 20 teams for the men nationally. Track & field is the one most will miss: we have a long history of excellence with national individual NCAA champions,
many conference titles, a couple of Olympians, and winning performances in the great meets--the IC4As, the Millrose Games, the Penn Relays, etc. Unfortunately Title Nine appears to force its demise to balance the cutting of women's volleyball.

Do I wish all these sports could remain. Yes. Is it really possible in today's economic world? Unfortunately, no.
09-11-2020 06:06 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
Bubba- your post is an embarrassment, and an affront to every W&M athlete ... past, present, and future. Your comments about volleyball are unwarranted, and beneath you.

Watch the Crispino/Moore podcast that I posted on another thread. It speaks the truth. What has happened to you?

W&M is not like other schools. We never have been. Most of us, Administration excluded, don’t want to be like other schools. Competing at the highest level with zero resources is a badge of honor in our minds. We overachieve. Ever hear of that? Think Levy and the Navy upset. It’s a common theme throughout William and Mary athletics ... all sports.

Your “tack” about wishing sports would remain but can’t has worn old ... you said basically the same thing about the firing of Tony Shaver. And this is all about, and solely about, the damn ticket to the Dance, despite all the smoke, mirrors, misdirection, etc., etc., etc. How much damage has to be done to go to the Dance?

Do relationships matter? Do intercollegiate sports attract highly-disciplined individuals who interact and succeed in life? Damn right they do, and this is incalculable in terms of the student experience, the alumni experience, and fricking donor dollars! Try to see the forest through the trees, and stop being a sycophant!

The natatorium is irrelevant.

Finally ....

If this has been a long time coming, then the AD blatantly lied when she said (1) all rocks had been turned over in the newspaper article covering the termination of the programs, and (2) that swimming was not in trouble last year. Let that sink in. Either you’re wrong that this is a long time coming, or the AD lied. It’s one or the other. Which is it? And if the AD lied, and the entire donor base knows it, ... think, man, think ... donations are going to dry up fast, and the school is going to have to rely solely on major donors. And if the major donors finally wake up and get their heads out of the sand, the school will have major financial decisions.

The stupidity and arrogance of this decision by the Administration (not just the AD ... all of them) is breath-taking.

Well, you got my blood going this morning! Thanks! :-)
09-11-2020 06:32 AM
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Tribfan Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
(09-10-2020 06:37 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Just decided to not include any of the more scathing posts? I don't think the posts you provided accurately represents fan reaction on your Facebook page.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Agreed that article didn’t come close to reflect the sentiment in the general alum community, nor especially the affected student athletes, parents and alumni network.
09-11-2020 06:39 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
Bubba- one of the posters on the wmsportsblog said that men’s gymnastics is completely self funded with a large endowment.

If true, two questions.

First, from an operational standpoint, if it is completely self-funded, why is there a need to cut it, if this is all about finances? We all know the answer.

Second, there are those words again- “large endowment”. I’ve posted this before. IMO, this is a money grab for the large endowments of the Tribe7. I can’t even begin to describe the revulsion that I have for this maneuver.
09-11-2020 06:42 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
Bubba- frankly, I would rather have Crispino and Moore as the Administrators of our beloved school than those who currently comprise the Administration. In that 30 minute podcast, they articulately expressed all that is great about W&M, were transparent, and are men of action.

That’s how basic and fundamental this division is.

Are you on the side of thousands of former, current, and future athletes and coaches, or the side of Administrators in a bloated college hierarchy?
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2020 06:47 AM by nj alum.)
09-11-2020 06:47 AM
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Tribe1693 Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
(09-11-2020 06:42 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Bubba- one of the posters on the wmsportsblog said that men’s gymnastics is completely self funded with a large endowment.

If true, two questions.

First, from an operational standpoint, if it is completely self-funded, why is there a need to cut it, if this is all about finances? We all know the answer.

Second, there are those words again- “large endowment”. I’ve posted this before. IMO, this is a money grab for the large endowments of the Tribe7. I can’t even begin to describe the revulsion that I have for this maneuver.

Bubba only posts statements and NEVER responds to questions of his posts. The AD doesn't provide him with responses to "FAQs" along with the "Talking Points" he is provided...
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2020 06:49 AM by Tribe1693.)
09-11-2020 06:47 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
I’ve noticed. :-)
09-11-2020 06:49 AM
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NC Tribe Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
(09-11-2020 06:42 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Bubba- one of the posters on the wmsportsblog said that men’s gymnastics is completely self funded with a large endowment.

If true, two questions.

First, from an operational standpoint, if it is completely self-funded, why is there a need to cut it, if this is all about finances? We all know the answer.

Second, there are those words again- “large endowment”. I’ve posted this before. IMO, this is a money grab for the large endowments of the Tribe7. I can’t even begin to describe the revulsion that I have for this maneuver.

NJ, not trying to pick a fight, but if a sport for men is fully endowed, it can still have a negative financial impact. The Men's sport has to endow the cost of a sport for women that has the same number of athletes in order to not cost money to continue. A Title IX expert would have to chime in on whether or not the number of scholarships has to be the same or if the same number of athletes alone is OK.

We just need a male student practice squad for the women's hoops team like Duke has to help our Title IX numbers.
09-11-2020 10:18 AM
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zablenoise Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
While we're talking about Title IX and scholarships, does anyone know if the scholarship money from the cut sports (specifically volleyball's 12 scholarships) are now going to sports where we traditionally haven't given scholarships? It would have made a lot more sense to me if we had shifted those scholarships to women's swimming instead of cutting the sport. We're already a better than average team without scholarships and if Huge wants to raise our national profile swimming seems like a sport where that would be possible with investment.

As for Title IX we already provide "substantially proportionate opportunities" for men and women at the College, we just need to make sure that the scholarship dollars remain equal. So that volleyball money has to be going somewhere right? Maybe we tried to evenly cut scholarships by eliminating men's gymnastics and track but I wasn't aware we gave full scholarships for those sports.
09-11-2020 10:45 AM
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Tribal Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
(09-11-2020 06:47 AM)Tribe1693 Wrote:  
(09-11-2020 06:42 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Bubba- one of the posters on the wmsportsblog said that men’s gymnastics is completely self funded with a large endowment.

If true, two questions.

First, from an operational standpoint, if it is completely self-funded, why is there a need to cut it, if this is all about finances? We all know the answer.

Second, there are those words again- “large endowment”. I’ve posted this before. IMO, this is a money grab for the large endowments of the Tribe7. I can’t even begin to describe the revulsion that I have for this maneuver.

Bubba only posts statements and NEVER responds to questions of his posts. The AD doesn't provide him with responses to "FAQs" along with the "Talking Points" he is provided...
This response is hereby officially nominated for Post of the Year.

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09-11-2020 01:05 PM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
NC Tribe-

I have no Title IX expertise.

But let’s keep it simple.

Women’s volleyball. Women’s gymnastics. Women’s swimming.

There is something that fundamentally does not compute in the argument that the alleged requirements of Title IX had a role in causing the loss of not one ... not two ... but three FEMALE intercollegiate sports. Title IX was NOT designed for that to happen; that should be undisputed.

This is just a great lawsuit waiting to happen re: those three female sports.

This whole thing is about the “system” (aka college sports) metastasizing into something unrecognizable, and causing those who benefit from / are employed by / derive their employment, from the “system”, to make decisions that defy common sense.

There is plenty of financial and vocal support for those three female programs, but the “system” “requires” that they be cut.

Now you know why I rail against the NCAA, both as an organization and about its rules and regs ... that is the “system”. It needs to be challenged ... and W&M has never challenged the “system”. It needs to be challenged here by the three cut female programs.
09-11-2020 05:56 PM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
Bubba-

Let’s talk women’s volleyball. You’ve been railing against that program for years. Cuts into hoops practice time. Full scholarships to kids from the West Coast. You called it a “terrible program”.

Let’s start with the “terrible program” label. What would you call men’s hoops between 1987 and 2005? Sometimes it just takes the right coach ... let’s say ... the volleyball version of Tony Shaver. If the right volleyball coach came along, you could have pizza with the coach at Anna’s Brick Oven!

Let’s move on to West Coast kids attending William and Mary on an athletics scholarship. (1) What did you think of the Stanford football game? You’ve been posting it’s the best thing since sliced bread. All of the West Coast alumni going to the game. Any volleyball players attending that weekend? (2) I thought W&M wanted to be national, not regional. (3) How many W&M grads from California made a difference in your W&M experiences? (4) Ever wonder why Notre Dame football has annual games with Stanford and USC? (5) Recruiting California is a negative for W&M? No other school in the country thinks that way.

Finally, the practice time effect. Time for a Purdue reference! :-). Purdue volleyball has its own gym; no conflict with hoops. Imagine that! A gym for volleyball. It used to be that way at W&M. Adair. Somehow, and someway, it got changed. That’s the fault of the Department; not the program. Blow could always be used as a back-up; that got changed. That’s the fault of the school; not the program. There was even another gym in the Hall at a lower level. That’s the fault of whomever; not the program. Besides, I thought that the new facility solved this problem. I guess I was “mis-informed”.
09-11-2020 06:25 PM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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RE: W&M Fan Reactions: Recent Cuts
(09-11-2020 06:06 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Did anybody really believe cuts weren't coming....several just missed being cut four years ago. Seven may be more than many thought
would occur, but it cannot be a surprise.

We had 23 sports, more than many Power Five universities and certainly more than schools on our level, an economic burden that had
to be adjusted down.

There always is a big negative reaction when it finally happens, but a shock? No.

Swimming lived in absolute invisibility for decades and most of its existence...and women's volleyball is and was a terrible program doing nothing but taking away
practice time for the women's and men's basketball teams. And did anyone ever look at where the women volleyball players came from? Allmost
all from expensive to travel Western states. And swimming has, and has no future in getting, a natatorium or even a real pool with diving with any real
facility for spectators.

The only sports with longtime tradition at W&M were men's track & field and gymnastics. And the latter is a noy-so-slowly dying sport at universities, down to less
than 20 teams for the men nationally. Track & field is the one most will miss: we have a long history of excellence with national individual NCAA champions,
many conference titles, a couple of Olympians, and winning performances in the great meets--the IC4As, the Millrose Games, the Penn Relays, etc. Unfortunately Title Nine appears to force its demise to balance the cutting of women's volleyball.

Do I wish all these sports could remain. Yes. Is it really possible in today's economic world? Unfortunately, no.

Yet to be described is how the elimination of seven sports will result in the elevation of the remaining 16. If reallocation of endowment dollars is part of the plan, best to be transparent. Somebody’s gonna notice.

The “vision” on the books remains that of dominating a conference of increasingly questionable viability, and strangely several of the sports eliminated were those where the Tribe was competitive if not dominant.

What is the plan to inspire additional donations and ticket revenues? Seems like it needs to be more persuasive than dominate the CAA, just no longer in the sports we dropped?
09-11-2020 07:46 PM
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