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If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
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TerryD Online
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Post: #21
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 05:10 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Penn State, Purdue, Maryland, Michigan State & West Virginia to the ACC makes a great deal of sense at that point particularly if N.D. goes all in at some point.

Purdue makes sense how? If you have ND in Indiana, you don't need Purdue.

Notre Dame and Purdue have been rivals how long? Purdue helps create a more friendly permanent atmosphere for N.D.. Sparty might help with that as well.

Maybe it's just Terry but I've never gotten the impression that ND fans give a damn about Purdue.

Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.
09-04-2020 07:28 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 05:10 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Purdue makes sense how? If you have ND in Indiana, you don't need Purdue.

Notre Dame and Purdue have been rivals how long? Purdue helps create a more friendly permanent atmosphere for N.D.. Sparty might help with that as well.

Maybe it's just Terry but I've never gotten the impression that ND fans give a damn about Purdue.

Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

Come on counselor, if you polled everyone at Auburn you wouldn't find anyone who loves Alabama, but we want to play them annually. You've played Purdue 86 times are scheduled again in 2021 and four times after that. Apparently someone at South Bend wants to play them.
09-04-2020 07:39 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 05:10 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Purdue makes sense how? If you have ND in Indiana, you don't need Purdue.

Notre Dame and Purdue have been rivals how long? Purdue helps create a more friendly permanent atmosphere for N.D.. Sparty might help with that as well.

Maybe it's just Terry but I've never gotten the impression that ND fans give a damn about Purdue.

Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

When MD ratted out WF to the B10, the main conversations were with PSU and Purdue. That's not a coincidence. The cost of football competition in the ACC is at least $25-$30 million cheaper in the ACC than the B10. The small stadium B10 schools have cost of competition problem in addition to a recruiting footprint problem.
09-04-2020 09:35 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-04-2020 09:35 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 05:10 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Notre Dame and Purdue have been rivals how long? Purdue helps create a more friendly permanent atmosphere for N.D.. Sparty might help with that as well.

Maybe it's just Terry but I've never gotten the impression that ND fans give a damn about Purdue.

Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

When MD ratted out WF to the B10, the main conversations were with PSU and Purdue. That's not a coincidence. The cost of football competition in the ACC is at least $25-$30 million cheaper in the ACC than the B10. The small stadium B10 schools have cost of competition problem in addition to a recruiting footprint problem.

This dovetails exactly into JR's new tack. But it also shows the awareness of the ACC ( Purdue as an institutional "fit") and the depth to which ESPN will go to placate the Irish.
As Statefan stated these conversations were ongoing and may have advanced further had it not been for our former friends at Maryland doing their best impression of Judas.
09-05-2020 06:52 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #25
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-04-2020 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 05:10 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Notre Dame and Purdue have been rivals how long? Purdue helps create a more friendly permanent atmosphere for N.D.. Sparty might help with that as well.

Maybe it's just Terry but I've never gotten the impression that ND fans give a damn about Purdue.

Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

Come on counselor, if you polled everyone at Auburn you wouldn't find anyone who loves Alabama, but we want to play them annually. You've played Purdue 86 times are scheduled again in 2021 and four times after that. Apparently someone at South Bend wants to play them.

Maybe the Administration does, I guess.

I am comfortable with my statement that most ND fans do not care about Purdue and/or dislike wasting a game by playing Purdue.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2020 08:12 AM by TerryD.)
09-05-2020 08:11 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #26
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-05-2020 08:11 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 05:10 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Maybe it's just Terry but I've never gotten the impression that ND fans give a damn about Purdue.

Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

Come on counselor, if you polled everyone at Auburn you wouldn't find anyone who loves Alabama, but we want to play them annually. You've played Purdue 86 times are scheduled again in 2021 and four times after that. Apparently someone at South Bend wants to play them.

Maybe the Administration does, I guess.

I am comfortable with my statement that most ND fans do not care about Purdue and/or dislike wasting a game by playing Purdue.

Your fans got tired of Purdue because they became non-competitive and they were just down the road. As a non-conference foe they become something like SC and VT to NC State or UNC when they were out of the league. But even ND needs friends in Indianapolis in State Government - Protestant friends not backstabbers like scUM. No university is totally immune to state politics - they can't be because that would be fiduciary breach.

Before MD's shenanigans, an 18 school ACC could have given you a division with NW, Purdue, Pitt, PSU and one of Miami, BC, or Syracuse. The other 12 you would have seen just once every three years:

North: NW/ND/Purdue/Pitt/PSU/Miami (Why Miami instead of BC or Syracuse - to give PSU and ND the Florida exposure they want)
East: BC/Syracuse/MD/UNC/UVa/NCSU (Remember MD saying they did not want to be in a northern ACC division?)
South: VT/WF/Duke/GT/Clemson/FSU

Anyway, the point is with the right partners, and the right structure, ND's football membership in the ACC is an easy thing. As far as NW and Purdue go in the above scenario - instead of competing with three 105,000 seat football programs and three 80,000 plus programs, the competition falls to just one 105K and three 80K plus - meaning a doable thing on more than a once a generation basis.

Money matters no doubt, but you have to be ABLE to win football games. You can choke them and that's okay. Your fans can wonder how you will lose to an inferior team the week after you pull off the upset and that's okay. When they KNOW you have no chance is when you lose them. That's Maryland now and it's untenable over the long run.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2020 10:27 AM by Statefan.)
09-05-2020 10:24 AM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
...wanted to be part of an East-coast conference where football and academics were both important, where could they possibly find a new home? I'm sure they could think of something...

Ohio State and Penn St. announce that they're joining the American Athletic Conference.
09-05-2020 10:46 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #28
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-05-2020 10:46 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  ...wanted to be part of an East-coast conference where football and academics were both important, where could they possibly find a new home? I'm sure they could think of something...

Ohio State and Penn St. announce that they're joining the American Athletic Conference.

03-shhhh
Isn't East Carolina in the AAC?
09-05-2020 11:26 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #29
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-05-2020 10:24 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-05-2020 08:11 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

Come on counselor, if you polled everyone at Auburn you wouldn't find anyone who loves Alabama, but we want to play them annually. You've played Purdue 86 times are scheduled again in 2021 and four times after that. Apparently someone at South Bend wants to play them.

Maybe the Administration does, I guess.

I am comfortable with my statement that most ND fans do not care about Purdue and/or dislike wasting a game by playing Purdue.

Your fans got tired of Purdue because they became non-competitive and they were just down the road. As a non-conference foe they become something like SC and VT to NC State or UNC when they were out of the league. But even ND needs friends in Indianapolis in State Government - Protestant friends not backstabbers like scUM. No university is totally immune to state politics - they can't be because that would be fiduciary breach.

Before MD's shenanigans, an 18 school ACC could have given you a division with NW, Purdue, Pitt, PSU and one of Miami, BC, or Syracuse. The other 12 you would have seen just once every three years:

North: NW/ND/Purdue/Pitt/PSU/Miami (Why Miami instead of BC or Syracuse - to give PSU and ND the Florida exposure they want)
East: BC/Syracuse/MD/UNC/UVa/NCSU (Remember MD saying they did not want to be in a northern ACC division?)
South: VT/WF/Duke/GT/Clemson/FSU

Anyway, the point is with the right partners, and the right structure, ND's football membership in the ACC is an easy thing. As far as NW and Purdue go in the above scenario - instead of competing with three 105,000 seat football programs and three 80,000 plus programs, the competition falls to just one 105K and three 80K plus - meaning a doable thing on more than a once a generation basis.

Money matters no doubt, but you have to be ABLE to win football games. You can choke them and that's okay. Your fans can wonder how you will lose to an inferior team the week after you pull off the upset and that's okay. When they KNOW you have no chance is when you lose them. That's Maryland now and it's untenable over the long run.

Regardless of what some SEC posters predict, UVa and Carolina (or NCSU and VT for that matter) are a lot smarter and a lot less desperate than our former friends in College Park.
09-05-2020 11:40 AM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-05-2020 10:24 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-05-2020 08:11 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Well somebody at Notre Dame must like Purdue. The Irish just signed another 4 game series with the Boilers '25-'28.

Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

Come on counselor, if you polled everyone at Auburn you wouldn't find anyone who loves Alabama, but we want to play them annually. You've played Purdue 86 times are scheduled again in 2021 and four times after that. Apparently someone at South Bend wants to play them.

Maybe the Administration does, I guess.

I am comfortable with my statement that most ND fans do not care about Purdue and/or dislike wasting a game by playing Purdue.

Your fans got tired of Purdue because they became non-competitive and they were just down the road. As a non-conference foe they become something like SC and VT to NC State or UNC when they were out of the league. But even ND needs friends in Indianapolis in State Government - Protestant friends not backstabbers like scUM. No university is totally immune to state politics - they can't be because that would be fiduciary breach.

Before MD's shenanigans, an 18 school ACC could have given you a division with NW, Purdue, Pitt, PSU and one of Miami, BC, or Syracuse. The other 12 you would have seen just once every three years:

North: NW/ND/Purdue/Pitt/PSU/Miami (Why Miami instead of BC or Syracuse - to give PSU and ND the Florida exposure they want)
East: BC/Syracuse/MD/UNC/UVa/NCSU (Remember MD saying they did not want to be in a northern ACC division?)
South: VT/WF/Duke/GT/Clemson/FSU

Anyway, the point is with the right partners, and the right structure, ND's football membership in the ACC is an easy thing. As far as NW and Purdue go in the above scenario - instead of competing with three 105,000 seat football programs and three 80,000 plus programs, the competition falls to just one 105K and three 80K plus - meaning a doable thing on more than a once a generation basis.

Money matters no doubt, but you have to be ABLE to win football games. You can choke them and that's okay. Your fans can wonder how you will lose to an inferior team the week after you pull off the upset and that's okay. When they KNOW you have no chance is when you lose them. That's Maryland now and it's untenable over the long run.

JRSEC's proposed ACC was a 20 team behemoth that added Penn State, Purdue, Maryland, Michigan State & West Virginia.

So that gives you 5 team divisions of:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - VT, UVA, UNC, Duke, NCST
South - Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU and Miami

The other option being swap VT and Wake and get:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - Wake, UVA, UNC, Duke, NCST
South - VT, Clemson, GT, FSU and Miami

I was skeptical but after seeing it broken down, I like it. I don't think the Central in the second example should be given a free pass to a 4 team conference playoff though.
09-05-2020 12:59 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #31
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-05-2020 12:59 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-05-2020 10:24 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-05-2020 08:11 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Go around to all ND message boards that you can find and ask if they love Purdue.

Come on counselor, if you polled everyone at Auburn you wouldn't find anyone who loves Alabama, but we want to play them annually. You've played Purdue 86 times are scheduled again in 2021 and four times after that. Apparently someone at South Bend wants to play them.

Maybe the Administration does, I guess.

I am comfortable with my statement that most ND fans do not care about Purdue and/or dislike wasting a game by playing Purdue.

Your fans got tired of Purdue because they became non-competitive and they were just down the road. As a non-conference foe they become something like SC and VT to NC State or UNC when they were out of the league. But even ND needs friends in Indianapolis in State Government - Protestant friends not backstabbers like scUM. No university is totally immune to state politics - they can't be because that would be fiduciary breach.

Before MD's shenanigans, an 18 school ACC could have given you a division with NW, Purdue, Pitt, PSU and one of Miami, BC, or Syracuse. The other 12 you would have seen just once every three years:

North: NW/ND/Purdue/Pitt/PSU/Miami (Why Miami instead of BC or Syracuse - to give PSU and ND the Florida exposure they want)
East: BC/Syracuse/MD/UNC/UVa/NCSU (Remember MD saying they did not want to be in a northern ACC division?)
South: VT/WF/Duke/GT/Clemson/FSU

Anyway, the point is with the right partners, and the right structure, ND's football membership in the ACC is an easy thing. As far as NW and Purdue go in the above scenario - instead of competing with three 105,000 seat football programs and three 80,000 plus programs, the competition falls to just one 105K and three 80K plus - meaning a doable thing on more than a once a generation basis.

Money matters no doubt, but you have to be ABLE to win football games. You can choke them and that's okay. Your fans can wonder how you will lose to an inferior team the week after you pull off the upset and that's okay. When they KNOW you have no chance is when you lose them. That's Maryland now and it's untenable over the long run.

JRSEC's proposed ACC was a 20 team behemoth that added Penn State, Purdue, Maryland, Michigan State & West Virginia.

So that gives you 5 team divisions of:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - VT, UVA, UNC, Duke, NCST
South - Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU and Miami

The other option being swap VT and Wake and get:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - Wake, UVA, UNC, Duke, NCST
South - VT, Clemson, GT, FSU and Miami

I was skeptical but after seeing it broken down, I like it. I don't think the Central in the second example should be given a free pass to a 4 team conference playoff though.

Now to see the value of that from a network perspective look at who might win each of those divisions to make for the conference semi finals. In the first bracket that would be Penn State, Notre Dame/Louisville/Michigan State/WVU all all possible for the second group with a nod to N.D., VaTech/UNC in the third, and Clemson/FSU in the fourth.

Now think about the money that the ACC would make if the semis were Penn State vs Notre Dame and Virginia Tech vs Clemson or FSU. That's what you are looking for as a network for big money games. Divisions should be in part regional, but also mindful of the most likely to emerge. You don't want Penn State and N.D. together if you have 20 schools, and really you should put Clemson with the North Carolina schools (all of which are fairly weak) and keep F.S.U. and Miami in the 4th division.

If your likely pairings for the semis were Penn State / Notre Dame & Clemson /FSU or Miami there is the optimal national draw games for the ACC.
09-05-2020 01:10 PM
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Post: #32
RE: If Ohio St and Penn St get tired of B1G politics...
(09-05-2020 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-05-2020 12:59 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-05-2020 10:24 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-05-2020 08:11 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Come on counselor, if you polled everyone at Auburn you wouldn't find anyone who loves Alabama, but we want to play them annually. You've played Purdue 86 times are scheduled again in 2021 and four times after that. Apparently someone at South Bend wants to play them.

Maybe the Administration does, I guess.

I am comfortable with my statement that most ND fans do not care about Purdue and/or dislike wasting a game by playing Purdue.

Your fans got tired of Purdue because they became non-competitive and they were just down the road. As a non-conference foe they become something like SC and VT to NC State or UNC when they were out of the league. But even ND needs friends in Indianapolis in State Government - Protestant friends not backstabbers like scUM. No university is totally immune to state politics - they can't be because that would be fiduciary breach.

Before MD's shenanigans, an 18 school ACC could have given you a division with NW, Purdue, Pitt, PSU and one of Miami, BC, or Syracuse. The other 12 you would have seen just once every three years:

North: NW/ND/Purdue/Pitt/PSU/Miami (Why Miami instead of BC or Syracuse - to give PSU and ND the Florida exposure they want)
East: BC/Syracuse/MD/UNC/UVa/NCSU (Remember MD saying they did not want to be in a northern ACC division?)
South: VT/WF/Duke/GT/Clemson/FSU

Anyway, the point is with the right partners, and the right structure, ND's football membership in the ACC is an easy thing. As far as NW and Purdue go in the above scenario - instead of competing with three 105,000 seat football programs and three 80,000 plus programs, the competition falls to just one 105K and three 80K plus - meaning a doable thing on more than a once a generation basis.

Money matters no doubt, but you have to be ABLE to win football games. You can choke them and that's okay. Your fans can wonder how you will lose to an inferior team the week after you pull off the upset and that's okay. When they KNOW you have no chance is when you lose them. That's Maryland now and it's untenable over the long run.

JRSEC's proposed ACC was a 20 team behemoth that added Penn State, Purdue, Maryland, Michigan State & West Virginia.

So that gives you 5 team divisions of:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - VT, UVA, UNC, Duke, NCST
South - Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU and Miami

The other option being swap VT and Wake and get:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - Wake, UVA, UNC, Duke, NCST
South - VT, Clemson, GT, FSU and Miami

I was skeptical but after seeing it broken down, I like it. I don't think the Central in the second example should be given a free pass to a 4 team conference playoff though.

Now to see the value of that from a network perspective look at who might win each of those divisions to make for the conference semi finals. In the first bracket that would be Penn State, Notre Dame/Louisville/Michigan State/WVU all all possible for the second group with a nod to N.D., VaTech/UNC in the third, and Clemson/FSU in the fourth.

Now think about the money that the ACC would make if the semis were Penn State vs Notre Dame and Virginia Tech vs Clemson or FSU. That's what you are looking for as a network for big money games. Divisions should be in part regional, but also mindful of the most likely to emerge. You don't want Penn State and N.D. together if you have 20 schools, and really you should put Clemson with the North Carolina schools (all of which are fairly weak) and keep F.S.U. and Miami in the 4th division.

If your likely pairings for the semis were Penn State / Notre Dame & Clemson /FSU or Miami there is the optimal national draw games for the ACC.

So:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - Clemson, Wake, UNC, Duke, NCST
South - VT, UVA, GT, FSU and Miami

Or would splitting the North Carolina Schools be better:

North - BC, Cuse, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt
West - Michigan St, ND, Purdue, Louisville, WVU
Central - Clemson, VT, UVA, UNC, Duke
South - Wake, NCST, GT, FSU and Miami
09-05-2020 01:44 PM
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