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W&M Cuts 7 Sports
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DSL Offline
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Post: #681
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
As a football fan of four decades, I thoroughly enjoyed the years when we consistently finished in the top four of the CAA and won a game or two in the playoffs.
That sort of reasonable success will keep our fans engaged and donating.
W&M earns recognition from academics and our incredible alumni.
Being at the very top of FCS will get us about one week of national recognition
and would likely exhaust our limited resources.

Give me seven or eight wins each year and i am fine.

Chasing an NCAA bid in basketball is another way we could waste resources for just
a few days of glory. I think most fans would be fine with a basketball team that
consistently finished in the CAA top four and maybe gets lucky and goes to the Dance one time.
Shaver's last few years were getting us where we should be with our modest resources.

Football and basketball are my priorities, but spending all of our resources on the fantasies of being a dominant power in these sports seems foolish.
10-15-2020 01:25 PM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #682
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Move forward with the practice facility for the athletes.
The Kaplan renovation is a luxury we fans can look forward to in the future.
10-15-2020 01:31 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #683
W&M Cuts 7 Sports
We get more exposure from Tweets like this than we could ever approach through bus signs, football wins, basketball wins, radio ads, and YouTube highlights combined.

Throwback with Bell and Coach T. #Steelers https://t.co/5cWDvMUg6T

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10-15-2020 01:41 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #684
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Bingo
10-15-2020 02:37 PM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #685
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(10-15-2020 01:41 PM)Tribal Wrote:  We get more exposure from Tweets like this than we could ever approach through bus signs, football wins, basketball wins, radio ads, and YouTube highlights combined.

Throwback with Bell and Coach T. #Steelers https://t.co/5cWDvMUg6T

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Just wait until Joey Brady gets that HC job in the coming years. Story upon story about coach University.
10-15-2020 02:49 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #686
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(10-15-2020 01:41 PM)Tribal Wrote:  We get more exposure from Tweets like this than we could ever approach through bus signs, football wins, basketball wins, radio ads, and YouTube highlights combined.

Throwback with Bell and Coach T. #Steelers https://t.co/5cWDvMUg6T

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I agree that it is great. It would be even better if it wasn't backwards. Someone who doesn't immediately recognize it as W&M (like we do) might not even be able to decipher it fast enough. But still way better than nothing!
10-15-2020 05:21 PM
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DSL Offline
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Post: #687
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Any thoughts about this? I sure wish we could have in-person discussions.

A Shared Path Forward for Athletics: Finances
Wednesday, October 21, at 7:00 p.m. ET

Members of our community have submitted many questions concerning the finances of W&M Athletics and their implications for the path forward. During this 90-minute session, panelists will answer these pressing questions and address the financial challenges facing the athletics department, including those related to budgets, endowments, expenses and revenue sources.

Over the course of the coming weeks, there will be additional opportunities for our community to come together to continue the dialogue about the future of W&M Athletics in an open and transparent way. In order for us move forward together, we will strive to create a shared understanding of the scope of the issues facing the entire athletics program and answer questions that have been posed.
10-16-2020 11:00 AM
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Old tribe Offline
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Post: #688
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
I'd encourage everyone to read this Twitter thread by Tom Farrey. He's the author that wrote the NY Times piece about why club sports make more sense for universities than varsity sports in many cases. (and he doesn't work for the NY Times for those NY Times haters. He used to work for ESPN and now works for the Aspen Institute of Sports, an organization that examines sport participation in the US at all levels.).

https://twitter.com/TomFarrey/status/131...97378?s=20

He specifically mentions W&M in the thread. One point he makes, and that I tend to agree with, is that football doesn't necessarily make much sense as a varsity sport below the P5 level. It results in huge student fees, is often the driver behind cutting sports at many schools, and doesn't necessarily provide much of a marketing boost. He specifically notes that W&M has 100+ players on the football roster but no big media contract, so the finances don't make sense.

Just imagine what the reaction would be if W&M tried to cut football.....
10-16-2020 12:13 PM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #689
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Old Tribe-

The unintended consequence of the Tribe 7 fiasco is that a white hot light is being shone on football and hoops.

It is in the interests of ALL sports to reinstate the Tribe 7 pronto, and move forward in a transparent and joint manner ... and jettison this world class experience nonsense.
10-16-2020 12:50 PM
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VolTribe Offline
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Post: #690
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
And now we know why the focus on Director's Cup points, scholarships, "revenue" sports, and "NCAA competitiveness" of teams. Compensation plans drive culture.

https://wydaily.com/local-news/2020/10/1...Zdq-kY-y6Q
10-16-2020 12:58 PM
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Zorch Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
It appears that Huge will be paid through May 2022 (at approx $255K per year). Based on criteria quoted in the article, it looks to me that Huge could have been terminated for cause. Even the plagiarism could be construed as cause -- but that is a slippery slope because Rowe and Agouris signed that document too.

Bottom line: another $400K+ down the drain while they plead poverty and take it out on the Tribe 7.
10-16-2020 02:19 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #692
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(10-16-2020 02:19 PM)Zorch Wrote:  It appears that Huge will be paid through May 2022 (at approx $255K per year). Based on criteria quoted in the article, it looks to me that Huge could have been terminated for cause. Even the plagiarism could be construed as cause -- but that is a slippery slope because Rowe and Agouris signed that document too.

Bottom line: another $400K+ down the drain while they plead poverty and take it out on the Tribe 7.
It's worth it to have her gone.

Basketball & Football offer a lot more than possibility for revenue. School spirit, on-campus events, merchandise, media coverage, alumni involvement, and on and on.

We invest in stuff all of the time that doesn't bring monetary value. Who here owns a car, has children, drinks anything other than water, eats at restaurants, owns a TV, or vacations?



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(This post was last modified: 10-16-2020 03:54 PM by Tribal.)
10-16-2020 03:52 PM
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VolTribe Offline
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Post: #693
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
(10-16-2020 03:52 PM)Tribal Wrote:  
(10-16-2020 02:19 PM)Zorch Wrote:  It appears that Huge will be paid through May 2022 (at approx $255K per year). Based on criteria quoted in the article, it looks to me that Huge could have been terminated for cause. Even the plagiarism could be construed as cause -- but that is a slippery slope because Rowe and Agouris signed that document too.

Bottom line: another $400K+ down the drain while they plead poverty and take it out on the Tribe 7.
It's worth it to have her gone.

Basketball & Football offer a lot more than possibility for revenue. School spirit, on-campus events, merchandise, media coverage, alumni involvement, and on and on.

We invest in stuff all of the time that doesn't bring monetary value. Who here owns a car, has children, drinks anything other than water, eats at restaurants, owns a TV, or vacations?



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Not arguing the return on the investment to get rid of Huge. Interesting that she may have benefited ($5K) from Colin Wright qualifying for NCAA championships and then cut team as a thank you.
10-16-2020 05:06 PM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #694
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Too bad the contract didn’t call for a $10,000 bonus for each sport that was added.

Amazing to me that the optics that are tripping up the school have to do with plagiarism, and personal contract incentives which the AD tried to implement (to the detriment of the Tribe 7).
10-16-2020 06:00 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
I don't think we're paying her contract for the full term. The way these situations usually work is some sort of agreement between both parties. I suspect that we didn't hear from Samantha because they were working out the separation.

For cause: usually ends up in court unless is was so nasty that it's obvious and the employee doesn't contest it.
For convenience: Employer agrees to pay the remainder of the contract or whatever part is owed based on the contract.
Resignation: Employee leaves and gets paid for anything owed based on the contract. Never the entire amount, but maybe the rest of the year or something like that

My guess is that the college had enough evidence of plagiarism to play the cause card. The college knows that it would end up in court and that they would win or lose, but spend money either way. I suspect that they agreed on a settlement where Huge resigned and still collected a part of her contract money.

That's an amicable way to split up and save money/face.
10-16-2020 06:07 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
http://flathatnews.com/2020/10/12/colleg...ic-equity/

Recent article in latest Flathat indicates W&M will avoid Title IX lawsuit and substantially strengthen women's sports by adding
additional scholarships to three current women's teams and cutting some men's scholarships. While article doesn't directly
in any depth discuss the seven dropped teams, it might appear that this approach would indicate the chances
of all seven returning may have diminished.

I've also heard that the non-scholarship volleyball and gymnastics athletes may move to the College's robust Sports Clubs
program (those club teams do play intercollegiate schedules at the club level). Swimming wasn't mentioned by this person so perhaps swimming is slated to return as a varsity undertaking.

A final decision, it appears...at least at this writing...is some ways from a final decision. So we'll all have to wait.
10-17-2020 05:21 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Thank you for posting the article.

The chart was illuminating.

I disagree with the Title IX approach being taken by the College.

My Title IX approach would be:

1) Reinstate the Tribe 7

2) Add the proposed female roster spots to the existing female sports.

3) Elevate women’s crew and softball (does W&M have club softball?) to varsity status.

4) Across the Board % cuts to all male sports’ roster spots until Title IX is satisfied.

Then, re-engage the donor base, make the financial numbers work, jettison Director’s Cup and world class criteria, and ... voila!

Whatever’s left over throw to football and hoops.

The silent culprit here is the donor base, and the College’s abandonment of same.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2020 06:51 AM by nj alum.)
10-17-2020 06:44 AM
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Tank55 Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Where would a softball team play?
10-17-2020 07:58 AM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
Cut down some trees (tic).

Plenty of softball fields in the Williamsburg area.

There’s a master plan to convert JBT to an athletics complex. Amend it.

Convert Plumieri to a dual use facility.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Admittedly, there’s no will right now.
10-17-2020 08:17 AM
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Blow Gym rat Offline
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports
I think, Title IX or not, it’s very unlikely that any new sports will be added now or anytime soon. What needs to happen is that any restorations from the Tribe 7 list would need to hit the right M/F balance.

Restoring both swim teams, for example, looks like it could easily be made Title IX-neutral. Now they’re at 26 women and 22 men, or 54%-46%. Shifting one or two roster spots would put them where they need to be.

Other options might adding back women’s gymnastics but not restoring the men, since MGYM is on its last legs from an NCAA standpoint.

Frankly, if Title IX had been designed pragmatically, some way would have been found to accommodate football. The sheer size of the rosters puts everything else out of balance, particularly as women increasingly predominate as a component of the student population. The result is a dearth of opportunities for men in other sports at many universities, which will be bad for the long-term health of many sports in the U.S. — fewer participants, fewer coaches, less interest, etc.
10-17-2020 12:03 PM
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