(09-09-2020 09:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:19 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 07:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't like watching millionaires kneel for the national anthem.

This. Talk about 'privilege'.

Working hard isn't enough to get you to that level, you have to be born with something... You have to inherit from your parents.

That could probably said for most millionaires...

You clearly missed that this was precisely what I was going for. This is the meme being put out there by many on the left... that most wealthy people didn't build it, they inherited it.

It is also the basis of white privilege... that you are genetically 'lucky'.

I find it somewhat hypocritical for people born with 'athletic privilege' worth millions to be talking about 'white privilege' that is (for the average white person) worth perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands.

(09-09-2020 09:53 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:41 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:19 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 07:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't like watching millionaires kneel for the national anthem.

This. Talk about 'privilege'.

Working hard isn't enough to get you to that level, you have to be born with something... You have to inherit from your parents.

That could probably said for most millionaires...

And the stereotypes raise their ugly heads.

Neither my mother(1989) nor my father(1999) left enough of an estate to be taxable, even though the thresholds then were much lower.

So, yes, I inherited a little something, probably less than your kids would inherit if a Mack truck hit you today.

What I did inherit from my parents were a work ethic, a desire to succeed in some way, and an inclination not to depend on the government to make my life right. I learned about honesty and fairness, and respecting other people's abilities and accomplishments. I learned not to hate. I learned not to blame others for my failings.

My grandmother taught these values to her kids. Her estate was probably less than $50K,mostly her house, but she left us a wealth of values.

Funny how Democrats sneer at the self made people, but idolize the Kerrys and the Pelosis, and the Kennedys.

Jesus... nobody is sneering.

I celebrate self-made people... I don't sneer at them.

My parents weren't in the 1% but my siblings and I are. It's not because what they have passed down in terms of $$$, but what they passed down in terms of genetics, an emphasis on education, and a work ethic.

This was the statement on NBA millionaires: Working hard isn't enough to get you to that level, you have to be born with something... You have to inherit from your parents.

I am relating that to the millionaires in non-NBA occupations including the ones here. Most of us inherited things from our parents that provided our pathways to success. NBA players might have inherited height/quick-twitch muscles/smarts. The rest of us successful people likely inherited a different set of traits.

I guess I was reacting to the constant refrain from the left that Trump inherited his wealth, didn't have to earn it. Such BS,

Congrats on your economic achievements. How much do you think the democratic proposals will cost you, and what would you have done with that money if it was left in your hands? Bury it in your backyard like the other millionaires?

I no longer have earned income, but on occasion when I make a real estate sale I approach that top level. i have a meeting next week for a major land sale. One of the reasons the land is even for sale at all is that (a) the Dems want to raise or eliminate the capital gains tax, and (b) local authorities want to change the tax category on it.

So yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus and he wants my money to bring you presents.

(09-09-2020 10:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:19 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 07:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't like watching millionaires kneel for the national anthem.

This. Talk about 'privilege'.

Working hard isn't enough to get you to that level, you have to be born with something... You have to inherit from your parents.

That could probably said for most millionaires...

You clearly missed that this was precisely what I was going for. This is the meme being put out there by many on the left... that most wealthy people didn't build it, they inherited it.

It is also the basis of white privilege... that you are genetically 'lucky'.

I find it somewhat hypocritical for people born with 'athletic privilege' worth millions to be talking about 'white privilege' that is (for the average white person) worth perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands.

So NBA players shouldn't speak out about the perceived injustices that affects people in their communities because they are rich? I don't get it.

(09-09-2020 10:22 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:19 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 07:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't like watching millionaires kneel for the national anthem.

This. Talk about 'privilege'.

Working hard isn't enough to get you to that level, you have to be born with something... You have to inherit from your parents.

That could probably said for most millionaires...

You clearly missed that this was precisely what I was going for. This is the meme being put out there by many on the left... that most wealthy people didn't build it, they inherited it.

It is also the basis of white privilege... that you are genetically 'lucky'.

I find it somewhat hypocritical for people born with 'athletic privilege' worth millions to be talking about 'white privilege' that is (for the average white person) worth perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands.

So NBA players shouldn't speak out about the perceived injustices that affects people in their communities because they are rich? I don't get it.

Truly, you don't, nor do many in your camp. But that is beside the point.

Perceived injustices are not the same actual injustices. And their community is the US of A.

Perception is what I consider a traffic stop and what a black man mightperceive as DWB, Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think a major part of the anger and hatred we see in BLM rallies is due to perceptions and propaganda over reality.

(09-09-2020 10:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:22 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:19 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  This. Talk about 'privilege'.

Working hard isn't enough to get you to that level, you have to be born with something... You have to inherit from your parents.

That could probably said for most millionaires...

You clearly missed that this was precisely what I was going for. This is the meme being put out there by many on the left... that most wealthy people didn't build it, they inherited it.

It is also the basis of white privilege... that you are genetically 'lucky'.

I find it somewhat hypocritical for people born with 'athletic privilege' worth millions to be talking about 'white privilege' that is (for the average white person) worth perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands.

So NBA players shouldn't speak out about the perceived injustices that affects people in their communities because they are rich? I don't get it.

Truly, you don't, nor do many in your camp. But that is beside the point.

Perceived injustices are not the same actual injustices. And their community is the US of A.

Perception is what I consider a traffic stop and what a black man mightperceive as DWB, Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think a major part of the anger and hatred we see in BLM rallies is due to perceptions and propaganda over reality.

Yes.... we all have our own perceptions.

Kind of goes back to the argument from some here that racism is no longer a problem in America.

(09-09-2020 10:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:22 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  That could probably said for most millionaires...

You clearly missed that this was precisely what I was going for. This is the meme being put out there by many on the left... that most wealthy people didn't build it, they inherited it.

It is also the basis of white privilege... that you are genetically 'lucky'.

I find it somewhat hypocritical for people born with 'athletic privilege' worth millions to be talking about 'white privilege' that is (for the average white person) worth perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands.

So NBA players shouldn't speak out about the perceived injustices that affects people in their communities because they are rich? I don't get it.

Truly, you don't, nor do many in your camp. But that is beside the point.

Perceived injustices are not the same actual injustices. And their community is the US of A.

Perception is what I consider a traffic stop and what a black man mightperceive as DWB, Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think a major part of the anger and hatred we see in BLM rallies is due to perceptions and propaganda over reality.

Yes.... we all have our own perceptions.

Kind of goes back to the argument from some here that racism is no longer a problem in America.

Well, It is my perception that you think that "some' includes me. But if I am wrong, who said that that. Link?

(09-09-2020 09:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 08:38 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 07:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 05:47 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 04:13 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  Now this...The NBA's swagger and joy of playing defies white supremacy

I normally just follow the NBA during the playoffs or 'second season'.

The new normal will be I won't follow them at all.

Not sure what that opinion piece has to do with watching the NBA. You don’t like Jamal Murray? Or do you not like that players held out?

Aren't there still white players in the NBA? That piece seems to assume there are not.

I don't like watching millionaires kneel for the national anthem.

Let’s assume that the piece does do that, I don’t get how the opinion of a writer who assumes all NBA players are black matters to whether or not the NBA is watchable, unless one has a disdain for Murray’s swagger or labor strikes.

Well, I have a bit of disdain for anybody's swagger, even Trump's. I don't have much use for labor strikes, although I can see the benefit for hourly workers.

It's an attitude thing. Did you read the piece before you decided to quarrel with me?

It's a piece by the author of "In Defense of Uncle Tom, Why Blacks Must Police Racial Loyalty:".

Racial loyalty? What's that called when a white person says it?

"We locate the true wickedness of white supremacy in its capacity to depress our smiles. Sap our joy. Distract our focus. Sometimes stop our beating hearts. We would live better, longer, more fulfilling lives if not for the actions of those who seek to oppress us."

it is all about being black, fighting for black things, being united with other blacks. I may have missed the part about uniting with their white brothers, like you and 93 and their teammates. It comes from a very biased viewpoint. do you disagree?

I read the piece - which is why I asked what two parts of it made Mersey not want to follow the NBA.

It wasn't written by an NBA player, executive, or someone with any obvious connection to the league, so it wasn't clear what about the article would make someone not want to follow the playoffs.

(09-09-2020 11:04 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:22 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  You clearly missed that this was precisely what I was going for. This is the meme being put out there by many on the left... that most wealthy people didn't build it, they inherited it.

It is also the basis of white privilege... that you are genetically 'lucky'.

I find it somewhat hypocritical for people born with 'athletic privilege' worth millions to be talking about 'white privilege' that is (for the average white person) worth perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands.

So NBA players shouldn't speak out about the perceived injustices that affects people in their communities because they are rich? I don't get it.

Truly, you don't, nor do many in your camp. But that is beside the point.

Perceived injustices are not the same actual injustices. And their community is the US of A.

Perception is what I consider a traffic stop and what a black man mightperceive as DWB, Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think a major part of the anger and hatred we see in BLM rallies is due to perceptions and propaganda over reality.

Yes.... we all have our own perceptions.

Kind of goes back to the argument from some here that racism is no longer a problem in America.

Well, It is my perception that you think that "some' includes me. But if I am wrong, who said that that. Link?

I don't remember... it was a while ago but that assertion really stood out to me... perhaps it was #'s?

(09-09-2020 10:22 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:30 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 09:19 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 07:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't like watching millionaires kneel for the national anthem.

This. Talk about 'privilege'.

Working hard isn't enough to get you to that level, you have to be born with something... You have to inherit from your parents.

That could probably said for most millionaires...

You clearly missed that this was precisely what I was going for. This is the meme being put out there by many on the left... that most wealthy people didn't build it, they inherited it.

It is also the basis of white privilege... that you are genetically 'lucky'.

I find it somewhat hypocritical for people born with 'athletic privilege' worth millions to be talking about 'white privilege' that is (for the average white person) worth perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands.

So NBA players shouldn't speak out about the perceived injustices that affects people in their communities because they are rich? I don't get it.

Perhaps if you simply read what I wrote and take it at face value, rather than looking for some hidden agenda or meaning, it might be more clear?

I find 'winners' in the genetic lottery complaining about the perceived benefits of the genetics of others to be somewhat hypocritical. It's that simple. What do basketball players in Europe earn? How about South America? The same nation that they are protesting over inequality is precisely WHY they are paid what they are paid. Is it perfect? Of course not. If it were, scientists and artists would be paid vastly more and basketball players vastly less. Are they protesting that inequality?

As you've said similarly yourself... NOBODY supports cops of any race who randomly shoot or kill innocent people, regardless of their race. Nobody supports randomly harassing people based on their race.

There are two possibilities... 1) harass more white people (which is EXACTLY what the left is doing) or 2) harass fewer innocent people of color (which the right, and some like you support, but get shouted down by the left).

(09-09-2020 11:42 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Nobody supports randomly harassing people based on their race.

I think many BLM people do. Have yolu seen the video of the BLM supporters going into the sidewalk section of the caffe and haranguing people and drinking their drinks and breaking glasses? I think those things happen precisely because the diners are white. I think the would not happen if the diners were black.

The haranguer is specific about white people.

I find it odd that gthe anti-racists support racism, just a different kind of racism. It's like the the Antifa (anti-fascists) supporting fascism, just their own.

(09-09-2020 10:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Kind of goes back to the argument from some here that racism is no longer a problem in America.

I'm unaware of anyone who said this. It is possible that in some typing haste, someone said that 'on a relative basis'... but that's not at all the same thing... and is often a part of someone 'expecting' a response and then reading it in to whatever the actual response was. We all do this, but that doesn't make it accurate.

(09-09-2020 12:18 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:42 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Nobody supports randomly harassing people based on their race.

I think many BLM people do. Have yolu seen the video of the BLM supporters going into the sidewalk section of the caffe and haranguing people and drinking their drinks and breaking glasses? I think those things happen precisely because the diners are white. I think the would not happen if the diners were black.

The haranguer is specific about white people.

I find it odd that gthe anti-racists support racism, just a different kind of racism. It's like the the Antifa (anti-fascists) supporting fascism, just their own.

I sort of alluded to this in the 'solutions'. They would say that this doesn't happen unless the other happens first, and I get that... but the question is, does it get better or worse by engaging in it?

The solution to racism isn't more racism... it is less of it... and you can't justify such hypocritical reactions and not expect
a) the statement of this obvious fact by well-intended people and
b) a push-back by those now being discriminated against.... some of whom will NOT be well-intended.

(09-09-2020 11:33 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:04 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:22 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  So NBA players shouldn't speak out about the perceived injustices that affects people in their communities because they are rich? I don't get it.

Truly, you don't, nor do many in your camp. But that is beside the point.

Perceived injustices are not the same actual injustices. And their community is the US of A.

Perception is what I consider a traffic stop and what a black man mightperceive as DWB, Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think a major part of the anger and hatred we see in BLM rallies is due to perceptions and propaganda over reality.

Yes.... we all have our own perceptions.

Kind of goes back to the argument from some here that racism is no longer a problem in America.

Well, It is my perception that you think that "some' includes me. But if I am wrong, who said that that. Link?

I don't remember... it was a while ago but that assertion really stood out to me... perhaps it was #'s?

I have said that when I was younger, I saw lots of racism - much of it supported by law and the customs of society. I saw "whites only" and "colored only" signs. I saw separate but equal waiting rooms and schools. I did not see black students at my schools.

I saw, on TV, the integration of Little Rock Central. I saw the lines of haters, screaming at those children. I saw the fire hoses and dogs in Birmingham. I saw the National Guard escort James Meredith.

I saw lunch counter sit ins, and race riots in Houston, and the Watts riots.

I read about the murders of three young civil rights workers in Mississippi.

All of this probably before you were born. You have read history. I lived it.

Yes, I have seen the US when it was much worse. Truly oppressive to blacks back then.

Young blacks today can go into any restaurant, any store, be accepted into any job, any school. Hard for me to think of that as oppression, after what I saw when I was young.

It doesn't mean there is not racial prejudice. There is plenty, going both ways.

But it is not in the system anymore. It is not in the laws. It is only in the minds and hearts of a few individuals, both black and white.

so is racism a problem? Sure. always will be. But it is not the law anymore. It is not part of the system. it is a part of the hearts and minds of some individuals in our community. Unless we are going to eradicate "wrong thinking" - maybe through re-education camps, maybe through cancel culture - it will remain a problem, though one getting smaller by the year. Unless, there are some who want to keep it fresh and keep it a problem.

BLM.

They don't want to say, these things happen. They want to say, these things happen to us all the time because we are black.

I disagree on both counts.

JMHO.

(09-09-2020 12:37 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:33 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:04 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Truly, you don't, nor do many in your camp. But that is beside the point.

Perceived injustices are not the same actual injustices. And their community is the US of A.

Perception is what I consider a traffic stop and what a black man mightperceive as DWB, Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think a major part of the anger and hatred we see in BLM rallies is due to perceptions and propaganda over reality.

Yes.... we all have our own perceptions.

Kind of goes back to the argument from some here that racism is no longer a problem in America.

Well, It is my perception that you think that "some' includes me. But if I am wrong, who said that that. Link?

I don't remember... it was a while ago but that assertion really stood out to me... perhaps it was #'s?

I have said that when I was younger, I saw lots of racism - much of it supported by law and the customs of society. I saw "whites only" and "colored only" signs. I saw separate but equal waiting rooms and schools. I did not see black students at my schools.

I saw, on TV, the integration of Little Rock Central. I saw the lines of haters, screaming at those children. I saw the fire hoses and dogs in Birmingham. I saw the National Guard escort James Meredith.

I saw lunch counter sit ins, and race riots in Houston, and the Watts riots.

I read about the murders of three young civil rights workers in Mississippi.

All of this probably before you were born. You have read history. I lived it.

Yes, I have seen the US when it was much worse. Truly oppressive to blacks back then.

Young blacks today can go into any restaurant, any store, be accepted into any job, any school. Hard for me to think of that as oppression, after what I saw when I was young.

It doesn't mean there is not racial prejudice. There is plenty, going both ways.

But it is not in the system anymore. It is not in the laws. It is only in the minds and hearts of a few individuals, both black and white.

so is racism a problem? Sure. always will be. But it is not the law anymore. It is not part of the system. it is a part of the hearts and minds of some individuals in our community. Unless we are going to eradicate "wrong thinking" - maybe through re-education camps, maybe through cancel culture - it will remain a problem, though one getting smaller by the year. Unless, there are some who want to keep it fresh and keep it a problem.

BLM.

They don't want to say, these things happen. They want to say, these things happen to us all the time because we are black.

I disagree on both counts.

JMHO.

It's interesting how you emphasize multiple times that racism goes both ways. Do you think white people and black people are equally adversely affected by racism in 2020?

(09-09-2020 12:52 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:37 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:33 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:04 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 10:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Yes.... we all have our own perceptions.

Kind of goes back to the argument from some here that racism is no longer a problem in America.

Well, It is my perception that you think that "some' includes me. But if I am wrong, who said that that. Link?

I don't remember... it was a while ago but that assertion really stood out to me... perhaps it was #'s?

I have said that when I was younger, I saw lots of racism - much of it supported by law and the customs of society. I saw "whites only" and "colored only" signs. I saw separate but equal waiting rooms and schools. I did not see black students at my schools.

I saw, on TV, the integration of Little Rock Central. I saw the lines of haters, screaming at those children. I saw the fire hoses and dogs in Birmingham. I saw the National Guard escort James Meredith.

I saw lunch counter sit ins, and race riots in Houston, and the Watts riots.

I read about the murders of three young civil rights workers in Mississippi.

All of this probably before you were born. You have read history. I lived it.

Yes, I have seen the US when it was much worse. Truly oppressive to blacks back then.

Young blacks today can go into any restaurant, any store, be accepted into any job, any school. Hard for me to think of that as oppression, after what I saw when I was young.

It doesn't mean there is not racial prejudice. There is plenty, going both ways.

But it is not in the system anymore. It is not in the laws. It is only in the minds and hearts of a few individuals, both black and white.

so is racism a problem? Sure. always will be. But it is not the law anymore. It is not part of the system. it is a part of the hearts and minds of some individuals in our community. Unless we are going to eradicate "wrong thinking" - maybe through re-education camps, maybe through cancel culture - it will remain a problem, though one getting smaller by the year. Unless, there are some who want to keep it fresh and keep it a problem.

BLM.

They don't want to say, these things happen. They want to say, these things happen to us all the time because we are black.

I disagree on both counts.

JMHO.

It's interesting how you emphasize multiple times that racism goes both ways. Do you think white people and black people are equally adversely affected by racism in 2020?

I was talking about the attitude, not the effect. I think there is as much or more anti-white sentiment in the black community as there is anti-balck sentiment in the white. Way more, in fact. But I will answer your question anyway. To the extent that decision makers are disproportionately white, then I would think the negative effects for black would be proportionate to that. So if 80% of the decision makers are white, and 5% are racist, then 4% of the decisions are negative to blacks. Of course the flip side would be if 20% of the decision makers are black, and 15% of them are racist toward whites, that would 3% negative to whites. Of course, we can plug in any numbers you want. But I have heard black contractors to say they only hire black. That is why it is concerning to see so many black police officers especially top ranks like chiefs, being run out of office by BLM. They were getting to be the decision makers. I wonder why any young black man would opt to be a cop today.

I started a movie just now - 21 Bridges, with Chadwick Boseman. It opens with him defending his use of a firearm - in fact, his use of it 9 times in 8 years as a cop. I had to think, good thing he is not white and those others black. he would be a dead man. And his town would be in ruins.

More importantly, it made me think how much has changed. TV and movies used to be pretty much all white. There was even a separate Jewish theatre industry. I remember When Sidney Pointer burst on the scene, and later when the earliest black TV comedies came on. Now, not only do we have black shows like Blackish - just about every show has significant black characters. But we get getting told this racist country hasn't changed a bit since 1951. I can see the difference.

https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/collec...sh-theater

(09-09-2020 01:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:52 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:37 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:33 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:04 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Well, It is my perception that you think that "some' includes me. But if I am wrong, who said that that. Link?

I don't remember... it was a while ago but that assertion really stood out to me... perhaps it was #'s?

I have said that when I was younger, I saw lots of racism - much of it supported by law and the customs of society. I saw "whites only" and "colored only" signs. I saw separate but equal waiting rooms and schools. I did not see black students at my schools.

I saw, on TV, the integration of Little Rock Central. I saw the lines of haters, screaming at those children. I saw the fire hoses and dogs in Birmingham. I saw the National Guard escort James Meredith.

I saw lunch counter sit ins, and race riots in Houston, and the Watts riots.

I read about the murders of three young civil rights workers in Mississippi.

All of this probably before you were born. You have read history. I lived it.

Yes, I have seen the US when it was much worse. Truly oppressive to blacks back then.

Young blacks today can go into any restaurant, any store, be accepted into any job, any school. Hard for me to think of that as oppression, after what I saw when I was young.

It doesn't mean there is not racial prejudice. There is plenty, going both ways.

But it is not in the system anymore. It is not in the laws. It is only in the minds and hearts of a few individuals, both black and white.

so is racism a problem? Sure. always will be. But it is not the law anymore. It is not part of the system. it is a part of the hearts and minds of some individuals in our community. Unless we are going to eradicate "wrong thinking" - maybe through re-education camps, maybe through cancel culture - it will remain a problem, though one getting smaller by the year. Unless, there are some who want to keep it fresh and keep it a problem.

BLM.

They don't want to say, these things happen. They want to say, these things happen to us all the time because we are black.

I disagree on both counts.

JMHO.

It's interesting how you emphasize multiple times that racism goes both ways. Do you think white people and black people are equally adversely affected by racism in 2020?

I was talking about the attitude, not the effect. I think there is as much or more anti-white sentiment in the black community as there is anti-balck sentiment in the white. Way more, in fact. But I will answer your question anyway. To the extent that decision makers are disproportionately white, then I would think the negative effects for black would be proportionate to that. So if 80% of the decision makers are white, and 5% are racist, then 4% of the decisions are negative to blacks. Of course the flip side would be if 20% of the decision makers are black, and 15% of them are racist toward whites, that would 3% negative to whites. Of course, we can plug in any numbers you want. But I have heard black contractors to say they only hire black. That is why it is concerning to see so many black police officers especially top ranks like chiefs, being run out of office by BLM. They were getting to be the decision makers. I wonder why any young black man would opt to be a cop today.

I started a movie just now - 21 Bridges, with Chadwick Boseman. It opens with him defending his use of a firearm - in fact, his use of it 9 times in 8 years as a cop. I had to think, good thing he is not white and those others black. he would be a dead man. And his town would be in ruins.

More importantly, it made me think how much has changed. TV and movies used to be pretty much all white. There was even a separate Jewish theatre industry. I remember When Sidney Pointer burst on the scene, and later when the earliest black TV comedies came on. Now, not only do we have black shows like Blackish - just about every show has significant black characters. But we get getting told this racist country hasn't changed a bit since 1951. I can see the difference.

https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/collec...sh-theater

Who tells you that this country hasn't changed since 1951?

(09-09-2020 01:30 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 01:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:52 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:37 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 11:33 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I don't remember... it was a while ago but that assertion really stood out to me... perhaps it was #'s?

I have said that when I was younger, I saw lots of racism - much of it supported by law and the customs of society. I saw "whites only" and "colored only" signs. I saw separate but equal waiting rooms and schools. I did not see black students at my schools.

I saw, on TV, the integration of Little Rock Central. I saw the lines of haters, screaming at those children. I saw the fire hoses and dogs in Birmingham. I saw the National Guard escort James Meredith.

I saw lunch counter sit ins, and race riots in Houston, and the Watts riots.

I read about the murders of three young civil rights workers in Mississippi.

All of this probably before you were born. You have read history. I lived it.

Yes, I have seen the US when it was much worse. Truly oppressive to blacks back then.

Young blacks today can go into any restaurant, any store, be accepted into any job, any school. Hard for me to think of that as oppression, after what I saw when I was young.

It doesn't mean there is not racial prejudice. There is plenty, going both ways.

But it is not in the system anymore. It is not in the laws. It is only in the minds and hearts of a few individuals, both black and white.

so is racism a problem? Sure. always will be. But it is not the law anymore. It is not part of the system. it is a part of the hearts and minds of some individuals in our community. Unless we are going to eradicate "wrong thinking" - maybe through re-education camps, maybe through cancel culture - it will remain a problem, though one getting smaller by the year. Unless, there are some who want to keep it fresh and keep it a problem.

BLM.

They don't want to say, these things happen. They want to say, these things happen to us all the time because we are black.

I disagree on both counts.

JMHO.

It's interesting how you emphasize multiple times that racism goes both ways. Do you think white people and black people are equally adversely affected by racism in 2020?

I was talking about the attitude, not the effect. I think there is as much or more anti-white sentiment in the black community as there is anti-balck sentiment in the white. Way more, in fact. But I will answer your question anyway. To the extent that decision makers are disproportionately white, then I would think the negative effects for black would be proportionate to that. So if 80% of the decision makers are white, and 5% are racist, then 4% of the decisions are negative to blacks. Of course the flip side would be if 20% of the decision makers are black, and 15% of them are racist toward whites, that would 3% negative to whites. Of course, we can plug in any numbers you want. But I have heard black contractors to say they only hire black. That is why it is concerning to see so many black police officers especially top ranks like chiefs, being run out of office by BLM. They were getting to be the decision makers. I wonder why any young black man would opt to be a cop today.

I started a movie just now - 21 Bridges, with Chadwick Boseman. It opens with him defending his use of a firearm - in fact, his use of it 9 times in 8 years as a cop. I had to think, good thing he is not white and those others black. he would be a dead man. And his town would be in ruins.

More importantly, it made me think how much has changed. TV and movies used to be pretty much all white. There was even a separate Jewish theatre industry. I remember When Sidney Pointer burst on the scene, and later when the earliest black TV comedies came on. Now, not only do we have black shows like Blackish - just about every show has significant black characters. But we get getting told this racist country hasn't changed a bit since 1951. I can see the difference.

https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/collec...sh-theater

Who tells you that this country hasn't changed since 1951?

The people marching, protesting, rioting etc. who complain about how racist and oppressive the country is. The 1951 date was arbitrary. The change over the last 70-100 years is not.

I don't mind so much when a person my age who has endured a lot of discrimination in their life complains, because I was there and saw what they went through. But when a youngster who has never been turned away from anywhere or barred from any place complains about his bad treatment, that irks me.

Most of these protesters are under 35. What have they suffered from? A cross-eyed look from a security guard?

(09-09-2020 04:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 01:30 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 01:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:52 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:37 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I have said that when I was younger, I saw lots of racism - much of it supported by law and the customs of society. I saw "whites only" and "colored only" signs. I saw separate but equal waiting rooms and schools. I did not see black students at my schools.

I saw, on TV, the integration of Little Rock Central. I saw the lines of haters, screaming at those children. I saw the fire hoses and dogs in Birmingham. I saw the National Guard escort James Meredith.

I saw lunch counter sit ins, and race riots in Houston, and the Watts riots.

I read about the murders of three young civil rights workers in Mississippi.

All of this probably before you were born. You have read history. I lived it.

Yes, I have seen the US when it was much worse. Truly oppressive to blacks back then.

Young blacks today can go into any restaurant, any store, be accepted into any job, any school. Hard for me to think of that as oppression, after what I saw when I was young.

It doesn't mean there is not racial prejudice. There is plenty, going both ways.

But it is not in the system anymore. It is not in the laws. It is only in the minds and hearts of a few individuals, both black and white.

so is racism a problem? Sure. always will be. But it is not the law anymore. It is not part of the system. it is a part of the hearts and minds of some individuals in our community. Unless we are going to eradicate "wrong thinking" - maybe through re-education camps, maybe through cancel culture - it will remain a problem, though one getting smaller by the year. Unless, there are some who want to keep it fresh and keep it a problem.

BLM.

They don't want to say, these things happen. They want to say, these things happen to us all the time because we are black.

I disagree on both counts.

JMHO.

It's interesting how you emphasize multiple times that racism goes both ways. Do you think white people and black people are equally adversely affected by racism in 2020?

I was talking about the attitude, not the effect. I think there is as much or more anti-white sentiment in the black community as there is anti-balck sentiment in the white. Way more, in fact. But I will answer your question anyway. To the extent that decision makers are disproportionately white, then I would think the negative effects for black would be proportionate to that. So if 80% of the decision makers are white, and 5% are racist, then 4% of the decisions are negative to blacks. Of course the flip side would be if 20% of the decision makers are black, and 15% of them are racist toward whites, that would 3% negative to whites. Of course, we can plug in any numbers you want. But I have heard black contractors to say they only hire black. That is why it is concerning to see so many black police officers especially top ranks like chiefs, being run out of office by BLM. They were getting to be the decision makers. I wonder why any young black man would opt to be a cop today.

I started a movie just now - 21 Bridges, with Chadwick Boseman. It opens with him defending his use of a firearm - in fact, his use of it 9 times in 8 years as a cop. I had to think, good thing he is not white and those others black. he would be a dead man. And his town would be in ruins.

More importantly, it made me think how much has changed. TV and movies used to be pretty much all white. There was even a separate Jewish theatre industry. I remember When Sidney Pointer burst on the scene, and later when the earliest black TV comedies came on. Now, not only do we have black shows like Blackish - just about every show has significant black characters. But we get getting told this racist country hasn't changed a bit since 1951. I can see the difference.

https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/collec...sh-theater

Who tells you that this country hasn't changed since 1951?

The people marching, protesting, rioting etc. who complain about how racist and oppressive the country is. The 1951 date was arbitrary. The change over the last 70-100 years is not.

I don't mind so much when a person my age who has endured a lot of discrimination in their life complains, because I was there and saw what they went through. But when a youngster who has never been turned away from anywhere or barred from any place complains about his bad treatment, that irks me.

Most of these protesters are under 35. What have they suffered from? A cross-eyed look from a security guard?

Maybe you should talk to some of them and ask them about their experiences with racism.

(09-09-2020 04:44 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 04:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 01:30 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 01:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-09-2020 12:52 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  It's interesting how you emphasize multiple times that racism goes both ways. Do you think white people and black people are equally adversely affected by racism in 2020?

I was talking about the attitude, not the effect. I think there is as much or more anti-white sentiment in the black community as there is anti-balck sentiment in the white. Way more, in fact. But I will answer your question anyway. To the extent that decision makers are disproportionately white, then I would think the negative effects for black would be proportionate to that. So if 80% of the decision makers are white, and 5% are racist, then 4% of the decisions are negative to blacks. Of course the flip side would be if 20% of the decision makers are black, and 15% of them are racist toward whites, that would 3% negative to whites. Of course, we can plug in any numbers you want. But I have heard black contractors to say they only hire black. That is why it is concerning to see so many black police officers especially top ranks like chiefs, being run out of office by BLM. They were getting to be the decision makers. I wonder why any young black man would opt to be a cop today.

I started a movie just now - 21 Bridges, with Chadwick Boseman. It opens with him defending his use of a firearm - in fact, his use of it 9 times in 8 years as a cop. I had to think, good thing he is not white and those others black. he would be a dead man. And his town would be in ruins.

More importantly, it made me think how much has changed. TV and movies used to be pretty much all white. There was even a separate Jewish theatre industry. I remember When Sidney Pointer burst on the scene, and later when the earliest black TV comedies came on. Now, not only do we have black shows like Blackish - just about every show has significant black characters. But we get getting told this racist country hasn't changed a bit since 1951. I can see the difference.

https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/collec...sh-theater

Who tells you that this country hasn't changed since 1951?

The people marching, protesting, rioting etc. who complain about how racist and oppressive the country is. The 1951 date was arbitrary. The change over the last 70-100 years is not.

I don't mind so much when a person my age who has endured a lot of discrimination in their life complains, because I was there and saw what they went through. But when a youngster who has never been turned away from anywhere or barred from any place complains about his bad treatment, that irks me.

Most of these protesters are under 35. What have they suffered from? A cross-eyed look from a security guard?

Maybe you should talk to some of them and ask them about their experiences with racism.

As a retired person living alone and quarantining, my options are few. perhaps you could give me some examples.

What I hear from black posters on other boards is things like security guards watching them. What I remember is "whites only". I see quite a gap there. Do you?

I hear about being looked at when they are the only black in the restaurant. what I remember is "Negro entrance around back".

I think the complaints of the 2020 black are light years from the complaints of the 1951 black. Or the 1959 or the 1962. Good grief, are you trying to tell me that blacks still cannot attend Alabama?

One thing that hasn't changed... Democrats calling for segregation.