(08-25-2020 03:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:43 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 09:49 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I just looked up a score - Notre Dame (very good P) defeated Navy (very good G) by 52-20.

You think HFA is worth 32 points?

I think it can be.

Oh come on man. What do bettors value it at, between 3 and 7 points?

You're intentionally missing the point. You claimed that the G5 hadn't notched any notable wins against the P5 last year.

A point which is entirely true.

My point was simply that they don't get many quality opportunities because of scheduling imbalances.

But, the opportunities that they had, they got cold-cocked in.

Beyond the above, you missed my main point, which was that despite not having any good wins vs P5 teams, several G5 managed to make the Top 25 anyway, which could indicate more respect for G5 football on the part of the voters.

There were no quality wins to you. Imo there were several. If the schedules weren't as imbalanced there would have been more. The G5 had a strong year and its been reflected in the polls.

(08-25-2020 03:14 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:43 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 09:49 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I think it can be.

Oh come on man. What do bettors value it at, between 3 and 7 points?

You're intentionally missing the point. You claimed that the G5 hadn't notched any notable wins against the P5 last year.

A point which is entirely true.

My point was simply that they don't get many quality opportunities because of scheduling imbalances.

But, the opportunities that they had, they got cold-cocked in.

Beyond the above, you missed my main point, which was that despite not having any good wins vs P5 teams, several G5 managed to make the Top 25 anyway, which could indicate more respect for G5 football on the part of the voters.

There were no quality wins to you. Imo there were several. If the schedules weren't as imbalanced there would have been more. The G5 had a strong year and its been reflected in the polls.

Seriously, name several. You seem to think a Navy win over a 4-loss (5 with the loss to Navy) Kansas State team is a quality win. I think that's pretty silly, K-State is a team that finished 5th in a 10-team league, but OK, let's grant that one. Who else ya got?

I think every G5 that finished ranked last year deserved it. None really deserved a top 10 ranking (and none got one), but they earned their ranking.

Kansas St was 8-4 and beat a CFP team. Absolutely a quality win.

(08-25-2020 03:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:14 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:43 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Oh come on man. What do bettors value it at, between 3 and 7 points?

You're intentionally missing the point. You claimed that the G5 hadn't notched any notable wins against the P5 last year.

A point which is entirely true.

My point was simply that they don't get many quality opportunities because of scheduling imbalances.

But, the opportunities that they had, they got cold-cocked in.

Beyond the above, you missed my main point, which was that despite not having any good wins vs P5 teams, several G5 managed to make the Top 25 anyway, which could indicate more respect for G5 football on the part of the voters.

There were no quality wins to you. Imo there were several. If the schedules weren't as imbalanced there would have been more. The G5 had a strong year and its been reflected in the polls.

Seriously, name several. You seem to think a Navy win over a 4-loss (sans the loss to Navy) Kansas State team is a quality win. I think that's pretty silly, K-State is a team that finished 5th in a 10-team league, but OK, let's grant that one. Who else ya got?

They finished tied for 3rd and beat a playoff team. How would that not be a quality win for a team that only finished 3rd/4th in their league. App St. road wins against UNC and South Carolina are quality. Cincy 38-6 whooping of BC in a bowl game is a quality win. LT blanked Miami in a bowl. SMU and Memphis notched wins against rivals TCU and Ole Miss. UCF stomped Stanford. Boise beat FSU in their house. Those are quality programs regardless of whether they were in down years.

UH has the most wins against P5 opponents by a G5 team since the start of the playoff era. Majority of those wins have come against teams that were a least bowl eligible. We haven't even been all that during that span. Most years we're floating around 8-9 wins. However, one difference between us and other quality G5 programs is that the majority of our P5 match ups haven't been on the road. They've either been at home or neutral site. Scheduling plays a big part in the perceived gap between the P5/G5. It doesn't account for all of it by any means, but its a significant factor. Most teams are good at home. The top 6 teams in the AAC last year had one combined loss at home. Give those teams a schedule where they get 4 or 5 home games against P5 teams and they're going to be turning in a lot more "quality" wins.

Hell a 7-6 Georgia St. team beating a 7-6 Tennessee team in Knoxville is a great win. There were plenty of wins by G5 teams over bowl eligible P5 opponents. Those wins may not seem that significant individually but you string enough together and it causes a ripple effect on the collective resumes of the P5. Thats what we saw last year. There weren't as many teams in the P5 with strong resumes because many of the middle and lower pack teams got beat by G5 teams. And it wasn't just the usual 10 win G5 team beating a 3-4 P5 team. There were a lot more middle rung G5 teams notching wins and more middle of the pack P5 teams dropping games.

Edit: Sorry an 8-5 Vols team

Here's a question Quo, who among the P5 would have qualified as a quality win last year?
Here's my list:
Clemson
Virginia
OU
Baylor
tOSU
PSU
Mich.
Wisc.
Minn.
Iowa
ND
Ore.
Utah
Georgia
Florida
LSU
Alabama
Auburn

That list has every P5 team that was ranked in the Coaches poll. Every P5 team outside of that has an 8-5 record or worse. In other words the same record as KSU and Tennessee. So would you add any teams to that list?

(08-25-2020 03:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:14 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:43 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Oh come on man. What do bettors value it at, between 3 and 7 points?

You're intentionally missing the point. You claimed that the G5 hadn't notched any notable wins against the P5 last year.

A point which is entirely true.

My point was simply that they don't get many quality opportunities because of scheduling imbalances.

But, the opportunities that they had, they got cold-cocked in.

Beyond the above, you missed my main point, which was that despite not having any good wins vs P5 teams, several G5 managed to make the Top 25 anyway, which could indicate more respect for G5 football on the part of the voters.

There were no quality wins to you. Imo there were several. If the schedules weren't as imbalanced there would have been more. The G5 had a strong year and its been reflected in the polls.

Seriously, name several. You seem to think a Navy win over a 4-loss (5 with the loss to Navy) Kansas State team is a quality win. I think that's pretty silly, K-State is a team that finished 5th in a 10-team league, but OK, let's grant that one. Who else ya got?

Where you at? Come take your L already lmao

(08-25-2020 03:43 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:14 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 10:43 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  You're intentionally missing the point. You claimed that the G5 hadn't notched any notable wins against the P5 last year.

A point which is entirely true.

My point was simply that they don't get many quality opportunities because of scheduling imbalances.

But, the opportunities that they had, they got cold-cocked in.

Beyond the above, you missed my main point, which was that despite not having any good wins vs P5 teams, several G5 managed to make the Top 25 anyway, which could indicate more respect for G5 football on the part of the voters.

There were no quality wins to you. Imo there were several. If the schedules weren't as imbalanced there would have been more. The G5 had a strong year and its been reflected in the polls.

Seriously, name several. You seem to think a Navy win over a 4-loss (sans the loss to Navy) Kansas State team is a quality win. I think that's pretty silly, K-State is a team that finished 5th in a 10-team league, but OK, let's grant that one. Who else ya got?

They finished tied for 3rd and beat a playoff team. How would that not be a quality win for a team that only finished 3rd/4th in their league. App St. road wins against UNC and South Carolina are quality. Cincy 38-6 whooping of BC in a bowl game is a quality win. LT blanked Miami in a bowl. SMU and Memphis notched wins against rivals TCU and Ole Miss. UCF stomped Stanford. Boise beat FSU in their house. Those are quality programs regardless of whether they were in down years.

Oh man come on. The official Big 12 standings has K-State in 5th, and that's where they finished, as they lost to both of the other teams that had the same conference record. Fifth out of ten. And even though that's no kind of quality win, I granted that one.

The other teams you mention are all nonsense, as those teams weren't any good. TCU was a 5-7 team, Ole Miss and South Carolina were 4-8, FSU and Miami were 6-7 the list goes on. To count those as "quality P5 wins" you basically have to believe that every P5 program is great just because they are P5. That's nonsense.

My point stands - no wins vs P5 worth mentioning yet a ton of teams ranked in the top 25. Your attempts to show otherwise is Hot Garbage, dumpster-fire stuff.

I do think that might mean newfound respect for the G5 among voters.

(08-26-2020 03:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:43 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:14 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Beyond the above, you missed my main point, which was that despite not having any good wins vs P5 teams, several G5 managed to make the Top 25 anyway, which could indicate more respect for G5 football on the part of the voters.

There were no quality wins to you. Imo there were several. If the schedules weren't as imbalanced there would have been more. The G5 had a strong year and its been reflected in the polls.

Seriously, name several. You seem to think a Navy win over a 4-loss (sans the loss to Navy) Kansas State team is a quality win. I think that's pretty silly, K-State is a team that finished 5th in a 10-team league, but OK, let's grant that one. Who else ya got?

They finished tied for 3rd and beat a playoff team. How would that not be a quality win for a team that only finished 3rd/4th in their league. App St. road wins against UNC and South Carolina are quality. Cincy 38-6 whooping of BC in a bowl game is a quality win. LT blanked Miami in a bowl. SMU and Memphis notched wins against rivals TCU and Ole Miss. UCF stomped Stanford. Boise beat FSU in their house. Those are quality programs regardless of whether they were in down years.

Oh man come on. The official Big 12 standings has K-State in 5th, and that's where they finished, as they lost to both of the other teams that had the same conference record. Fifth out of ten. And even though that's no kind of quality win, I granted that one.

The other teams you mention are all nonsense, as those teams weren't any good. TCU was a 5-7 team, Ole Miss and South Carolina were 4-8, FSU and Miami were 6-7 the list goes on. To count those as "quality P5 wins" you basically have to believe that every P5 program is great just because they are P5. That's nonsense.

My point stands - no wins vs P5 worth mentioning yet a ton of teams ranked in the top 25. Your attempts to show otherwise is Hot Garbage, dumpster-fire stuff.

I do think that might mean newfound respect for the G5 among voters.

Make a list of P5 teams that would've counted as a quality win in your eyes. If KSU beats Navy they're a ranked team. If Tennessee doesn't lose to Georgia St. they're a ranked team. That TCU team beat Texas fort worth, they lost to SMU in Forth Worth. Cincy throttling BC by 30 is a quality win. App beating UNC in North Carolina is a quality win.

Edit: BTW where KSU finished in the Big 12 is a side issue. They finished in a 4 way tie for 3rd. If you want to say officially they finished ranked behind UT and Okst. fine, but saying that somehow disqualifies them as a quality win is ludicrous. The voters didn't have any problem ranking an 8-5 UT and their best win came against KSU. KSU at 8-5 had as a good of a record as any non ranked P5 team in the country. They also probably had the best win of any non-playoff team with their win over OU. If they don't count as a quality win then you're effectively saying that no unranked P5 team would have been a quality win. Which in turn means that no unranked P5 teams were quality teams and thus were undeserving of being ranked. And that makes sense but I don't believe thats what you believe. I think the only reason you're being dismissive over that win is because you didn't realize it existed. So now you're stuck trying to downplay it because it doesn't fit into the narrative you were falsely pushing, rather than just admitting you were wrong and talking out of your ass.

(08-26-2020 04:42 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-26-2020 03:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:43 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:14 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  There were no quality wins to you. Imo there were several. If the schedules weren't as imbalanced there would have been more. The G5 had a strong year and its been reflected in the polls.

Seriously, name several. You seem to think a Navy win over a 4-loss (sans the loss to Navy) Kansas State team is a quality win. I think that's pretty silly, K-State is a team that finished 5th in a 10-team league, but OK, let's grant that one. Who else ya got?

They finished tied for 3rd and beat a playoff team. How would that not be a quality win for a team that only finished 3rd/4th in their league. App St. road wins against UNC and South Carolina are quality. Cincy 38-6 whooping of BC in a bowl game is a quality win. LT blanked Miami in a bowl. SMU and Memphis notched wins against rivals TCU and Ole Miss. UCF stomped Stanford. Boise beat FSU in their house. Those are quality programs regardless of whether they were in down years.

Oh man come on. The official Big 12 standings has K-State in 5th, and that's where they finished, as they lost to both of the other teams that had the same conference record. Fifth out of ten. And even though that's no kind of quality win, I granted that one.

The other teams you mention are all nonsense, as those teams weren't any good. TCU was a 5-7 team, Ole Miss and South Carolina were 4-8, FSU and Miami were 6-7 the list goes on. To count those as "quality P5 wins" you basically have to believe that every P5 program is great just because they are P5. That's nonsense.

My point stands - no wins vs P5 worth mentioning yet a ton of teams ranked in the top 25. Your attempts to show otherwise is Hot Garbage, dumpster-fire stuff.

I do think that might mean newfound respect for the G5 among voters.

Make a list of P5 teams that would've counted as a quality win in your eyes. If KSU beats Navy they're a ranked team. If Tennessee doesn't lose to Georgia St. they're a ranked team. That TCU team beat Texas fort worth, they lost to SMU in Forth Worth. Cincy throttling BC by 30 is a quality win. App beating UNC in North Carolina is a quality win.

Edit: BTW where KSU finished in the Big 12 is a side issue. They finished in a 4 way tie for 3rd. If you want to say officially they finished ranked behind UT and Okst. fine, but saying that somehow disqualifies them as a quality win is ludicrous. The voters didn't have any problem ranking an 8-5 UT and their best win came against KSU. KSU at 8-5 had as a good of a record as any non ranked P5 team in the country. They also probably had the best win of any non-playoff team with their win over OU. If they don't count as a quality win then you're effectively saying that no unranked P5 team would have been a quality win.

Kansas State was 8-4 before they lost to Navy. That's not very good. They finished 5th in the Big 12, that's where they happened to finish, I'm sorry if that disrupts your narrative.

Despite your angst, you haven't put a dent in my point - none of the G5 schools that finished ranked in the top 25 captured a P5 scalp worth mentioning (why you keep mentioning Tennessee, irrelevant here because Georgia State was unranked, is a measure of your desperation). Kansas State is the best possible example, and at 8-4/8-5 and FIFTH PLACE in the B1G, all anyone can say is "that's all you got"? Come on. And even after I granted that one very lukewarm win, you then tried to mention all kinds of nonsense about beating 4-8 P5 teams. Good Lord. Now you're still trying it by mentioning 6-6 UNC and BC teams. Sheesh!

The entire ranked G5 contingent had no wins worth mentioning over P5 teams, which if you want to define as "ranked teams" then yes, that's a reasonable definition of "quality".

When your very best win is over a team that finished 8-5, I'm sorry, but that's not saying much. Your continued flailing to cover for your inept entry into this discussion notwithstanding.

(08-27-2020 09:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2020 04:42 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-26-2020 03:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:43 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(08-25-2020 03:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seriously, name several. You seem to think a Navy win over a 4-loss (sans the loss to Navy) Kansas State team is a quality win. I think that's pretty silly, K-State is a team that finished 5th in a 10-team league, but OK, let's grant that one. Who else ya got?

They finished tied for 3rd and beat a playoff team. How would that not be a quality win for a team that only finished 3rd/4th in their league. App St. road wins against UNC and South Carolina are quality. Cincy 38-6 whooping of BC in a bowl game is a quality win. LT blanked Miami in a bowl. SMU and Memphis notched wins against rivals TCU and Ole Miss. UCF stomped Stanford. Boise beat FSU in their house. Those are quality programs regardless of whether they were in down years.

Oh man come on. The official Big 12 standings has K-State in 5th, and that's where they finished, as they lost to both of the other teams that had the same conference record. Fifth out of ten. And even though that's no kind of quality win, I granted that one.

The other teams you mention are all nonsense, as those teams weren't any good. TCU was a 5-7 team, Ole Miss and South Carolina were 4-8, FSU and Miami were 6-7 the list goes on. To count those as "quality P5 wins" you basically have to believe that every P5 program is great just because they are P5. That's nonsense.

My point stands - no wins vs P5 worth mentioning yet a ton of teams ranked in the top 25. Your attempts to show otherwise is Hot Garbage, dumpster-fire stuff.

I do think that might mean newfound respect for the G5 among voters.

Make a list of P5 teams that would've counted as a quality win in your eyes. If KSU beats Navy they're a ranked team. If Tennessee doesn't lose to Georgia St. they're a ranked team. That TCU team beat Texas fort worth, they lost to SMU in Forth Worth. Cincy throttling BC by 30 is a quality win. App beating UNC in North Carolina is a quality win.

Edit: BTW where KSU finished in the Big 12 is a side issue. They finished in a 4 way tie for 3rd. If you want to say officially they finished ranked behind UT and Okst. fine, but saying that somehow disqualifies them as a quality win is ludicrous. The voters didn't have any problem ranking an 8-5 UT and their best win came against KSU. KSU at 8-5 had as a good of a record as any non ranked P5 team in the country. They also probably had the best win of any non-playoff team with their win over OU. If they don't count as a quality win then you're effectively saying that no unranked P5 team would have been a quality win.

Kansas State was 8-4 before they lost to Navy. That's not very good. They finished 5th in the Big 12, that's where they happened to finish, I'm sorry if that disrupts your narrative.

Despite your angst, you haven't put a dent in my point - none of the G5 schools that finished ranked in the top 25 captured a P5 scalp worth mentioning (why you keep mentioning Tennessee, irrelevant here because Georgia State was unranked, is a measure of your desperation). Kansas State is the best possible example, and at 8-4/8-5 and FIFTH PLACE in the B1G, all anyone can say is "that's all you got"? Come on. And even after I granted that one very lukewarm win, you then tried to mention all kinds of nonsense about beating 4-8 P5 teams. Good Lord. Now you're still trying it by mentioning 6-6 UNC and BC teams. Sheesh!

The entire ranked G5 contingent had no wins worth mentioning over P5 teams, which if you want to define as "ranked teams" then yes, that's a reasonable definition of "quality".

When your very best win is over a team that finished 8-5, I'm sorry, but that's not saying much. Your continued flailing to cover for your inept entry into this discussion notwithstanding.

A quality win is relative. A team trying to build a playoff resume is going to have a different standard and definition for what constitutes a "quality win" than a team that routinely finishes towards the bottom of a league, like say Kansas. Alabama going in to Knoxville and winning is expected. Georgia St. (a middle of the pack team from a bottom two league) going into Knoxville and beating a middle of the pack team from one the best conference in the country is a great win. And while that win didn't belong to one of the ranked G5 teams it nevertheless directly benefited them because it gave Tennessee an 8-5 record instead of a 9-4 record. A 9-4 Tennessee team beats out one of those ranked G5 teams, just like how KSU would've been ranked instead of Navy had they beat them. Navy was the 3rd best team in their league. Them beating the 3rd best team from a perceived better league is a quality win. App went into UNC a and won. The only other teams to do that were UVA and Clemson the top two ACC teams. Where games are played matters. You think Clemson only beats UNC by a point if they play that game in Death Valley?

Again there were 18 teams from the P5 that won more than 8 games. Every single one of them was ranked (in the coaches poll, in the AP UVA was left out for 8-5 UT). Competing for those last 7 spots were the G5 teams that got ranked and all the 8-5 teams you've deemed to be mediocre. And if mediocre simply means undeserving of a ranking then the AP voters agreed with you. And that frankly shouldn't have surprised anyone because the last time the AP poll ranked multiple 5 loss teams was in 1999. Nevertheless the bolded part of your **** post needs to be expanded upon because an examination of #13 Baylor, #16 Utah, and #25 UT and UVA's schedule's shows that their best wins came against 8-5 P5 teams. Which you would know if you actually did any research rather than just talking out of your ass.