Just for fun here, if the SEC decided to add two teams, which teams would you guys prefer? I’m a Tennessee fan living in West Virginia so my two would be WVU and Virginia Tech just because I’m close to both schools.

(08-19-2020 08:51 AM)VFL8920 Wrote:  Just for fun here, if the SEC decided to add two teams, which teams would you guys prefer? I’m a Tennessee fan living in West Virginia so my two would be WVU and Virginia Tech just because I’m close to both schools.

That depends upon what you are trying to achieve.

If the expansion comes from the Big 12 and you want the most value it would be Texas and Oklahoma.

If you wanted to make Kentucky and Missouri more comfortable it would be Oklahoma and Kansas.

If you expanded from the ACC and wanted the most value it would be Florida State and Clemson. If you wanted to expand the markets it would be Virginia Tech and N.C. State or North Carolina.

If you wanted to create a better region for Tennessee and Kentucky then Virginia Tech makes even more sense with a North Carolina school.

Of course the likelihood of taking 2 each from a different conference is pretty low simply because breaching two conference causes lots of shifting.

Now if it is the Big 10 Ohio State is contiguous and the most SEC like program and Penn State is workable from a football first standpoint.

Does anyone think the SEC would ever consider truly shaking things up and not just adding another P5 school whose brand is already a staple elsewhere but instead creating a new P5 by adding one of the better rising brands from the G5?

The reason I ask is this, let's say the SEC added Louisiana who is currently ranked #17 and sits in the same hot bed recruiting footprint as LSU, Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, etc... don't you think that would provide some exciting new branding for the SEC to create more regional rivalries within its footprint?

Sure, I may be a homer for the Ragin' Cajuns... but even if you take my school out of the equation, I could see a Coastal Carolina or App State making sense for the SEC as well.

Point being, don't follow the same old story of all these other conferences, make your own story and build your conference up with some new blood.

(12-14-2020 02:52 PM)CajunJuice Wrote:  Does anyone think the SEC would ever consider truly shaking things up and not just adding another P5 school whose brand is already a staple elsewhere but instead creating a new P5 by adding one of the better rising brands from the G5?

The reason I ask is this, let's say the SEC added Louisiana who is currently ranked #17 and sits in the same hot bed recruiting footprint as LSU, Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, etc... don't you think that would provide some exciting new branding for the SEC to create more regional rivalries within its footprint?

Sure, I may be a homer for the Ragin' Cajuns... but even if you take my school out of the equation, I could see a Coastal Carolina or App State making sense for the SEC as well.

Point being, don't follow the same old story of all these other conferences, make your own story and build your conference up with some new blood.

Nobody is permitted to think that way.

The first rule of every conference is that a new addition has to add enough value in terms of revenue to make each other conference member more money. The SEC's new contract takes the conference to 64.2 million minimally per school. If Louisiana could add 80 million in value to SEC by being worth that in commercial endorsements to ESPN then they would pay their way in and earn each other member 1 million more on their annual payouts. The can't. In fact at this point there are only 6 schools that could: 1. Texas, 2. Ohio State, 3. Michigan, 4. Oklahoma, 5. Penn State, 6. Notre Dame.

If you can agree that Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State aren't likely to leave the Big 10 that leaves just three: Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame. If you believe that Notre Dame should they not join the ACC would be far more likely to join the Big 10 where their hockey team plays, then we are down to just two.

This is why if the SEC is to expand again it will be with Texas and Oklahoma which both add enough value in terms of revenue that they could still cover a buddy each and be profitable.

If the SEC wanted to expand for academic prestige and lose money in the process they would take North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and Georgia Tech.

Texas provides an academic upgrade and Oklahoma is dead on the SEC academic average. So they are still the best choices as Oklahoma doesn't hurt SEC academics, Texas helps SEC academics, and both add a lot more money. How much more per school? Think 2 to 2.5 million each.

1. Oklahoma
2. Texas
3. Nebraska
4. Ohio State
5. Virginia Tech
6. West Virginia
7. FSU
8. Clemson
9. Kansas

In terms of poker because why not. I am excluding all PAC and BIG teams as well as Notre Dame:

Royal Flush - Texas, Oklahoma
Straight Flush - Florida State
Four of a Kind - Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia, Kansas, Duke, Louisville
Full House - Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, Pittsburgh, Iowa State, Miami, TCU
Flush - Oklahoma State, UCF, USF, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Baylor, Texas Tech, Kansas State
Straight - Wake Forest, Boston College, Syracuse, Navy, Memphis, Tulane, SMU, Rice, Houston
Three of a Kind - All other FBS schools that are "Southern"
Two Pair - All of FCS schools that are "Southern"
High Card - ECU (just kidding, guys!)

(08-19-2020 08:51 AM)VFL8920 Wrote:  Just for fun here, if the SEC decided to add two teams, which teams would you guys prefer? I’m a Tennessee fan living in West Virginia so my two would be WVU and Virginia Tech just because I’m close to both schools.

I would love to have those schools (WVU needs an attitude adjustment) but neither increase the conference bottom line. 'Potential' will not make it through the front door.

(12-14-2020 02:52 PM)CajunJuice Wrote:  Does anyone think the SEC would ever consider truly shaking things up and not just adding another P5 school whose brand is already a staple elsewhere but instead creating a new P5 by adding one of the better rising brands from the G5?

The reason I ask is this, let's say the SEC added Louisiana who is currently ranked #17 and sits in the same hot bed recruiting footprint as LSU, Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, etc... don't you think that would provide some exciting new branding for the SEC to create more regional rivalries within its footprint?

Sure, I may be a homer for the Ragin' Cajuns... but even if you take my school out of the equation, I could see a Coastal Carolina or App State making sense for the SEC as well.

Point being, don't follow the same old story of all these other conferences, make your own story and build your conference up with some new blood.

I am both a P5 fan (Georgia & Oregon) and a G5 fan (Troy, Montevallo, USM), so I have an unique perspective on this, IMO. Had the University of Louisiana petitioned to join the SoCon waay back in early twentieth century (we'll say slightly pre-World War I, or slightly after World War I), I could see the Cajuns getting into the SEC back when it was first formed. That has no bearing on UL's academic standing whatsoever, but a lot to do with tradition, which I might argue even somewhat rivals the Ivy League.
Also, right now, the SEC and the Big Ten are playing the real life, collegiate athletic version of "Risk." You don't want your opponent to get the upper hand. This is why the SEC isn't even going after UCF or USF right now. Unfortunately for them, although they are fine schools with legitimate P5 aspirations, they are still projects and will take time and $$'s to really be able to challenge the USC's and Penn State's of the world. Basically, the SEC would be viewed as even more insane for taking UCF and/or USF than the Big Ten was viewed as when they grabbed Maryland and Rutgers.

Houston & VA T

(12-21-2020 11:37 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Houston & VA T

What does Houston provide that A&M doesn’t already?

(08-19-2020 11:02 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-19-2020 08:51 AM)VFL8920 Wrote:  Just for fun here, if the SEC decided to add two teams, which teams would you guys prefer? I’m a Tennessee fan living in West Virginia so my two would be WVU and Virginia Tech just because I’m close to both schools.

That depends upon what you are trying to achieve.

If the expansion comes from the Big 12 and you want the most value it would be Texas and Oklahoma.

If you wanted to make Kentucky and Missouri more comfortable it would be Oklahoma and Kansas.

If you expanded from the ACC and wanted the most value it would be Florida State and Clemson. If you wanted to expand the markets it would be Virginia Tech and N.C. State or North Carolina.

If you wanted to create a better region for Tennessee and Kentucky then Virginia Tech makes even more sense with a North Carolina school.

Of course the likelihood of taking 2 each from a different conference is pretty low simply because breaching two conference causes lots of shifting.

Now if it is the Big 10 Ohio State is contiguous and the most SEC like program and Penn State is workable from a football first standpoint.

That would be my top two choices.

Basketball and market: Maryland.

Won't happen.

(12-22-2020 06:04 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(08-19-2020 11:02 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-19-2020 08:51 AM)VFL8920 Wrote:  Just for fun here, if the SEC decided to add two teams, which teams would you guys prefer? I’m a Tennessee fan living in West Virginia so my two would be WVU and Virginia Tech just because I’m close to both schools.

That depends upon what you are trying to achieve.

If the expansion comes from the Big 12 and you want the most value it would be Texas and Oklahoma.

If you wanted to make Kentucky and Missouri more comfortable it would be Oklahoma and Kansas.

If you expanded from the ACC and wanted the most value it would be Florida State and Clemson. If you wanted to expand the markets it would be Virginia Tech and N.C. State or North Carolina.

If you wanted to create a better region for Tennessee and Kentucky then Virginia Tech makes even more sense with a North Carolina school.

Of course the likelihood of taking 2 each from a different conference is pretty low simply because breaching two conference causes lots of shifting.

Now if it is the Big 10 Ohio State is contiguous and the most SEC like program and Penn State is workable from a football first standpoint.

That would be my top two choices.

Basketball and market: Maryland.

Won't happen.

Haven't seen you around lately Odin, good to see you back.

This is a hard question for me because there are several I would like to see. Hard to beat Florida State and Clemson.

This question got me thinking about perspectives, so below is what I think would be the top two overall (especially cultural) fits for each existing SEC team. I think we all know and agree that Texas and Oklahoma would be the two best immediate additions strictly in terms of increasing revenue. I am also leaving Georgia Tech out because they are nowhere close to a consideration in terms of revenue generation, and I cannot imagine that they would be a forced dancing partner for a major addition:

Texas A&M - Texas and Oklahoma
Missouri: Kansas and Oklahoma
Arkansas: Texas and Oklahoma
LSU: Texas and Oklahoma
Mississippi: Texas and Oklahoma
Mississippi State: Florida State and Oklahoma State
Alabama: Oklahoma and Florida State
Auburn: Florida State and Clemson
Vanderbilt: Duke and Miami
Kentucky: Louisville and West Virginia
Tennessee: North Carolina and Virginia
Georgia: North Carolina and Florida State/Clemson
Florida: Florida State and North Carolina
South Carolina: Clemson and North Carolina

In a vacuum, I believe Oklahoma and North Carolina would be a top two selection as an overall addition for the most members, and it really fills out our "Southern" footprint quite nicely. After the fiasco that ensued within the BIG this year, I am not nearly as concerned about the BIG infiltrating the SEC footprint and causing a stir as last year. My perception is that North Carolina is as difficult to deal with as Texas but without the Scrooge McDuck money bags in tow. I wish they were as game to blend in as South Carolina has proven to be. I still believe that adding either UNC or NC State would be a major growth asset to build into our revenue stream because I think that state is primed to buy in on SEC football if given a partnership in the product.

So, my "hundred year" answer to adding two more schools would be Oklahoma and North Carolina and immediately switch divisions for Auburn and Missouri. Protect Alabama for Auburn and Tennessee in some capacity, and let Texas toy with the western half of the United States for the next century. Austin appears to be developing into the new capital of the West, anyway, so let's ride with A&M and Oklahoma to own all but the westernmost portion of Texoma. I can see Texas and Texas Tech naming their price into the PAC in the near future based on the ways things are going for them.

(12-23-2020 11:36 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  This question got me thinking about perspectives, so below is what I think would be the top two overall (especially cultural) fits for each existing SEC team. I think we all know and agree that Texas and Oklahoma would be the two best immediate additions strictly in terms of increasing revenue. I am also leaving Georgia Tech out because they are nowhere close to a consideration in terms of revenue generation, and I cannot imagine that they would be a forced dancing partner for a major addition:

Texas A&M - Texas and Oklahoma
Missouri: Kansas and Oklahoma
Arkansas: Texas and Oklahoma
LSU: Texas and Oklahoma
Mississippi: Texas and Oklahoma
Mississippi State: Florida State and Oklahoma State
Alabama: Oklahoma and Florida State
Auburn: Florida State and Clemson
Vanderbilt: Duke and Miami
Kentucky: Louisville and West Virginia
Tennessee: North Carolina and Virginia
Georgia: North Carolina and Florida State/Clemson
Florida: Florida State and North Carolina
South Carolina: Clemson and North Carolina

In a vacuum, I believe Oklahoma and North Carolina would be a top two selection as an overall addition for the most members, and it really fills out our "Southern" footprint quite nicely. After the fiasco that ensued within the BIG this year, I am not nearly as concerned about the BIG infiltrating the SEC footprint and causing a stir as last year. My perception is that North Carolina is as difficult to deal with as Texas but without the Scrooge McDuck money bags in tow. I wish they were as game to blend in as South Carolina has proven to be. I still believe that adding either UNC or NC State would be a major growth asset to build into our revenue stream because I think that state is primed to buy in on SEC football if given a partnership in the product.

So, my "hundred year" answer to adding two more schools would be Oklahoma and North Carolina and immediately switch divisions for Auburn and Missouri. Protect Alabama for Auburn and Tennessee in some capacity, and let Texas toy with the western half of the United States for the next century. Austin appears to be developing into the new capital of the West, anyway, so let's ride with A&M and Oklahoma to own all but the westernmost portion of Texoma. I can see Texas and Texas Tech naming their price into the PAC in the near future based on the ways things are going for them.

I think you make some good points.

I have thought recently about the idea of Texas and Texas Tech moving to the PAC as a combo. The original PAC expansion plan envisioned 16, but the numbers don't line up with the potential revenue. A move to 14 would stabilize the league and the revenue. Texas still wouldn't make as much as they could in either the SEC or the Big Ten, but they would have more political influence. In this scenario, they would 1) be saving the day for the PAC and that would carry some weight while 2) they would likely be more competitive on the field. It would be tough sledding for them in the SEC as they, while incredibly rich, would still be only one of several strong players. Their influence would be a shadow of what it was in their heyday.

I think this is a situation that could develop after Oklahoma and Kansas made a move to the SEC.

But I agree that NC would be a ripe place for SEC fandom if we were to penetrate it.

(12-18-2020 03:14 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  In terms of poker because why not. I am excluding all PAC and BIG teams as well as Notre Dame:

Royal Flush - Texas, Oklahoma
Straight Flush - Florida State
Four of a Kind - Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia, Kansas, Duke, Louisville
Full House - Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, Pittsburgh, Iowa State, Miami, TCU
Flush - Oklahoma State, UCF, USF, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Baylor, Texas Tech, Kansas State
Straight - Wake Forest, Boston College, Syracuse, Navy, Memphis, Tulane, SMU, Rice, Houston
Three of a Kind - All other FBS schools that are "Southern"
Two Pair - All of FCS schools that are "Southern"
High Card - ECU (just kidding, guys!)

I think the states of North Carolina and Virginia are the best for expanding the SEC. Next best state is Texas.

Within North Carolina and Virginia, UVA, VT, UNC and NC State are the best choices.
Arguably the state of Texas is the next best state. And from there, UT is the obvious choice.

Additions from smaller states don't help much. On that basis I would reject West Virginia, Louisville (Kentucky already covers small state Kentucky), the Oklahomas, and the Kansases.

I just be realized I never picked my two teams: Florida State & Oklahoma, I guess.

(02-17-2021 10:09 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I just be realized I never picked my two teams: Florida State & Oklahoma, I guess.

Would you keep the divisions as-is and add Florida St to the East and Oklahoma to the West? Or make those additions then shift Auburn to the East and Missouri to the West? Or go divisionless? Or something else?

Obviously Texas/OK are 1A and 1B and nothing else.

But I'll play along:

I'll take Oklahoma and Kansas.

Rationales:
1) Though I would love for the SEC to take V Tech for TN, we need two western teams at the moment.
2) OK is an obvious blue blood that brings both on the field results and helps the $.
3) OK State would be fine as a tag-a-long, but doesn't really move the needle otherwise (no offense to OK State)
4) Kansas basketball, academics, and rivalry with Missouri make it a solid fit and expands the SEC into another state, however small.
5) Kansas and OK "block" Texas from being contiguous with the Big 10.
6) Taking these two teams allows Alabama/Auburn to shift East with Missouri moving west; can remove protected rivalries.
7) I feel like Texas would mess up the collegiality of the conference.

(03-03-2021 11:52 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  Obviously Texas/OK are 1A and 1B and nothing else.

But I'll play along:

I'll take Oklahoma and Kansas.

Rationales:
1) Though I would love for the SEC to take V Tech for TN, we need two western teams at the moment.
2) OK is an obvious blue blood that brings both on the field results and helps the $.
3) OK State would be fine as a tag-a-long, but doesn't really move the needle otherwise (no offense to OK State)
4) Kansas basketball, academics, and rivalry with Missouri make it a solid fit and expands the SEC into another state, however small.
5) Kansas and OK "block" Texas from being contiguous with the Big 10.
6) Taking these two teams allows Alabama/Auburn to shift East with Missouri moving west; can remove protected rivalries.
7) I feel like Texas would mess up the collegiality of the conference.

Taking 2 eastern teams would help move Missouri west also.