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If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
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MidknightWhiskey Offline
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If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
All Universities are taking a good hard look at their financials right now. Based on revenue generated or lost by the FB program and student/alumni/fan interest what programs realize that competing at the FBS level isn't worth it and drops down to FCS or drops FB all together?

Also if the conferences take the same approach who ends up getting dropped by their conference?
08-09-2020 11:24 AM
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MidknightWhiskey Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
2019 Attendance numbers
From the reported attendance numbers, which are usually heavily inflated in the bottom tiers, here's the programs that had under 20K home attendance.

Under 20k home attendance:
Akron 17,959
Ball St 9,924
Bowling Green 15,295
Buffalo 16,417
Central Michigan 13,564
Charlotte 12,319
Coastal Carolina 15,019
Eastern Michigan 17,025
FIU 13,875
FAU 17,607
Ga Southern 13,964
Ga State 17,186
Kent St 12,822
La Monroe 16,728
Liberty 18,272
Louisiana 18,203
Massachusetts 9,498
Miami (OH) 17,794
Middle Tenn. 14,253
Nevada 16,180
New Mexico 15,747
New Mexico St 17,905
Northern Illinois 8,518
Ohio 16,566
Old Dominion 18,234
San Jose St 15,396
South Alabama 16,322
Texas State 17,140
Tulsa 18,741
Uconn 18,216
UNLV 19,864
Utah St 19,609
UTEP 17,093
UTSA 19,904
Western Kentucky 15,191
Western Michigan 17,937

P5 under 40k home attendance:
Arizona 39,532
Duke 25,811
Illinois 36,587
Kansas 33,875
Maryland 37,812
Northwestern 37,736
Oregon St 32,424
Rutgers 30,082
Stanford 37,018
Vanderbilt 26,288
Wake Forest 26,999
Washington St 28,541
08-09-2020 12:51 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
Teams fluctuate how good they are & that affects attendance.
08-09-2020 12:59 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
If the NCAA required that at least 50% of the conference be above 20K in average home attendance the SBC, C-USA, and MAC would all be relegated along with Liberty, UMass, UConn, and NMSU.

That would leave 90 teams in a leaner FBS.
08-09-2020 01:10 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
Why would they do that?
08-09-2020 01:12 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:12 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Why would they do that?

I’m not sure they would on their own but if the P5 pressured them I’m sure the NCAA would oblige them.
08-09-2020 01:22 PM
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MidknightWhiskey Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the NCAA required that at least 50% of the conference be above 20K in average home attendance the SBC, C-USA, and MAC would all be relegated along with Liberty, UMass, UConn, and NMSU.

That would leave 90 teams in a leaner FBS.

Right now it's a 15k minimum average, there are several teams above that are already below that and many programs that have attendance problems buy mass amounts of tickets themselves to inflate their numbers.
08-09-2020 01:22 PM
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JTApps1 Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 11:24 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  All Universities are taking a good hard look at their financials right now. Based on revenue generated or lost by the FB program and student/alumni/fan interest what programs realize that competing at the FBS level isn't worth it and drops down to FCS or drops FB all together?

Also if the conferences take the same approach who ends up getting dropped by their conference?

The MAC was originally supposed to become I-AA/FCS back in the early 1980's, but had a lot of big time coaches with ties to the conference call in favors to keep them in I-A/FBS. Their financial situation hasn't gotten much if any better since then.

Most of the MAC, half of SBC and CUSA, and a few MWC members should probably be in FCS IF there were real minimum requirements for FCS. The Dayton rule watered that division down so much that these "former" FBS teams wouldn't have anything in common with most of the current FCS.

The NCAA almost needs to go back to the I-A/I-AA setup, but also add I-AAA to satisfy the Dayton rule.
08-09-2020 01:23 PM
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pki1998 Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
Honestly the MAC should move down to FCS. When you have a school like Kent State who schedules three body bag games a year just so they can be FBS you have a problem. My take on what a FCS MAC would look like

Ohio
Kent St/Akron - The state of Ohio should combine these schools along with Northeast Ohio Medical.
Bowling Green
Toledo
Miami (OH)
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Ball State
Youngstown State - From OVC/Horizion
Indiana State - From MVC

Gives them a 11 teams, as you can see this leaves out Buffalo and Northern Illinois

Buffalo - Since Buffalo is the flagship of the SUNY system, I think they should stay FBS. The best place for them would be the AAC, but I don’t think they would be invited. Assuming no AAC invite their best bet would be joining the A10 for olympics (joining state flagships UMass and RI) and become an independent in football. Probably could get a scheduling alliance with UConn, UMass, and Army.

Northern Illinois - probably better suited for the MVC/MVFC. Basically a straight up trade for Indiana State to put FCS teams from the same state in the same conferences.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2020 01:34 PM by pki1998.)
08-09-2020 01:32 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
No way should UB be the only one that stays FBS 03-lmfao03-lmfao
08-09-2020 01:44 PM
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MidknightWhiskey Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
Responsibly the entire MAC should go FCS.
Uconn should drop FB, its a money pit for them and they have minimal fan support. Reallocate the funds to their bball programs.
Umass - should be FCS

CUSA & Sunbelt could narrow their combined membership down to a 10-12 team conference with everyone else dropping to FCS.

It'll be interesting if P5 conferences address their members that have FB issues. Wake Forest, Vandy, Rutgers could all be removed outright. Duke could be a non-FB member. Maybe the long awaited Magnolia Conference finally emerges.
08-09-2020 01:44 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:32 PM)pki1998 Wrote:  Honestly the MAC should move down to FCS. When you have a school like Kent State who schedules three body bag games a year just so they can be FBS you have a problem. My take on what a FCS MAC would look like

Ohio
Kent St/Akron - The state of Ohio should combine these schools along with Northeast Ohio Medical.
Bowling Green
Toledo
Miami (OH)
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Ball State
Youngstown State - From OVC/Horizion
Indiana State - From MVC

Gives them a 11 teams, as you can see this leaves out Buffalo and Northern Illinois

Buffalo - Since Buffalo is the flagship of the SUNY system, I think they should stay FBS. The best place for them would be the AAC, but I don’t think they would be invited. Assuming no AAC invite their best bet would be joining the A10 for olympics (joining state flagships UMass and RI) and become an independent in football. Probably could get a scheduling alliance with UConn, UMass, and Army.

Northern Illinois - probably better suited for the MVC/MVFC. Basically a straight up trade for Indiana State to put FCS teams from the same state in the same conferences.

No chance Indiana St leaves MVC, and no chance MVC takes in NIU.

Indiana St is on the border of IL/IN, their entire modern history is with the MVC.

NIU tried to get into the MVC during the Big West FB days and the MVC wasn’t interested. MVC would add Murray St first (who finished runner-up last go-around).

Regardless, none of this will happen. A fan base like Toledo’s or Ohio’s isn’t going FCS. Schools like NIU and WMU who recently played in Orange and Cotton bowls aren’t going FCS. A school with Miami’s history isn’t going FCS.
08-09-2020 01:45 PM
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MidknightWhiskey Offline
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Post: #13
RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
My hope is that FBS can get cleaned up and realigned to 1 make more sense and 2 eliminate body bag games to get everyone more enticing match ups.
08-09-2020 01:52 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(08-09-2020 01:32 PM)pki1998 Wrote:  Honestly the MAC should move down to FCS. When you have a school like Kent State who schedules three body bag games a year just so they can be FBS you have a problem. My take on what a FCS MAC would look like

Ohio
Kent St/Akron - The state of Ohio should combine these schools along with Northeast Ohio Medical.
Bowling Green
Toledo
Miami (OH)
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Ball State
Youngstown State - From OVC/Horizion
Indiana State - From MVC

Gives them a 11 teams, as you can see this leaves out Buffalo and Northern Illinois

Buffalo - Since Buffalo is the flagship of the SUNY system, I think they should stay FBS. The best place for them would be the AAC, but I don’t think they would be invited. Assuming no AAC invite their best bet would be joining the A10 for olympics (joining state flagships UMass and RI) and become an independent in football. Probably could get a scheduling alliance with UConn, UMass, and Army.

Northern Illinois - probably better suited for the MVC/MVFC. Basically a straight up trade for Indiana State to put FCS teams from the same state in the same conferences.

No chance Indiana St leaves MVC, and no chance MVC takes in NIU.

Indiana St is on the border of IL/IN, their entire modern history is with the MVC.

NIU tried to get into the MVC during the Big West FB days and the MVC wasn’t interested. MVC would add Murray St first (who finished runner-up last go-around).

Regardless, none of this will happen. A fan base like Toledo’s or Ohio’s isn’t going FCS. Schools like NIU and WMU who recently played in Orange and Cotton bowls aren’t going FCS. A school with Miami’s history isn’t going FCS.

8 months or whenever it was I would've agreed. I'm not sure how Covid lockdowns are impacting things tho.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2020 02:00 PM by Bronco'14.)
08-09-2020 02:00 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(08-09-2020 01:12 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Why would they do that?

I’m not sure they would on their own but if the P5 pressured them I’m sure the NCAA would oblige them.

Remember, the P5 like having the G5 around, and plenty of them. It's more winnable games, which coaches and ADs love, and truth is, fans do too, despite crocodile tears about wanting to play Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State OOC (they really only want to play teams like that if they beat them).

The P5 only has an issue with the G5 when governance issues arise, and Autonomy basically resolved that. So there is no impetus among the P5 to get rid of the G5.
08-09-2020 02:13 PM
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 12:59 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Teams fluctuate how good they are & that affects attendance.

4 year average teams below 20k:

130 Ball State MAC 9,475
129 Northern Illinois MAC 10,308
128 Massachusetts IND 11,275
127 Kent State MAC 12,506
126 UNC Charlotte CUSA 12,531
125 Coastal Carolina SB 13,538
124 Louisiana-Monroe SB 13,569
123 Central Michigan MAC 14,329
122 San Jose State MWC 14,819
121 New Mexico State IND 14,849
120 Florida International CUSA 15,159
119 Bowling Green MAC 15,340
118 MTSU CUSA 15,673
117 Western Kentucky CUSA 15,708
116 Florida Atlantic CUSA 15,920
115 Georgia State SB 16,184
114 Eastern Michigan MAC 16,343
113 Miami, OH MAC 16,400
112 Buffalo MAC 16,410
111 Texas State SB 16,456
110 South Alabama SB 16,495
109 Akron MAC 16,595
108 Georgia Southern SB 16,711
107 Liberty SB 17,042
106 Nevada MWC 17,146
105 UNLV MWC 18,131
104 Louisiana-Lafayette SB 18,182
103 Ohio MAC 18,343
102 Tulsa American 18,383
101 UTEP CUSA 18,449
100 New Mexico MWC 18,451
99 Western Michigan MAC 18,989
98 Utah State MWC 19,393
97 Tulane American 19,486
96 Old Dominion CUSA 19,526
95 Louisiana Tech CUSA 19,688
08-09-2020 02:18 PM
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
Note that of the bottom 24, only San Jose is in the MWC or AAC.
Of the 36 below 20k, there are 5 MWC and 2 AAC.

Above 20k, there are 6 CUSA, 3 Sun Belt and 1 MAC.
08-09-2020 02:22 PM
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the NCAA required that at least 50% of the conference be above 20K in average home attendance the SBC, C-USA, and MAC would all be relegated along with Liberty, UMass, UConn, and NMSU.

That would leave 90 teams in a leaner FBS.

Sounds almost perfect to me.
08-09-2020 02:40 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(08-09-2020 01:12 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Why would they do that?

I’m not sure they would on their own but if the P5 pressured them I’m sure the NCAA would oblige them.

You are under the delusion that the NCAA is some kind of powerful ruling body. It is not. It is just the collective voice of the schools that make up it's membership -- the inmates run the asylum.

NCAA rules are merely made after the fact, to codify actual practices. And if a member falls out of compliance, they issue waivers like candy. They do not enforce much. They know who butters their bread.
08-09-2020 03:02 PM
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RE: If schools & conferences reevaluate FB programs
(08-09-2020 01:32 PM)pki1998 Wrote:  Buffalo - Since Buffalo is the flagship of the SUNY system, I think they should stay FBS. The best place for them would be the AAC, but I don’t think they would be invited. Assuming no AAC invite their best bet would be joining the A10 for olympics (joining state flagships UMass and RI) and become an independent in football. Probably could get a scheduling alliance with UConn, UMass, and Army.

Buffalo is not the flagship of the SUNY system.

At best you could call them a flagship, co-equal with Binghamton, Albany, and Stony Brook.
08-09-2020 03:08 PM
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