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MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
08-23-2020 10:10 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #62
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-23-2020 10:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  CMU news

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...421218001/

This may sound crazy, but it is NOT my original idea (although I subscribe to it in these special circumstances). I read it in a newspaper.

I would permit athletes to reside in athletic dorms which was done decades ago. One student-athlete per room.

Other students can live on or off campus as appropriate and feasible depending if there is a reason to be on campus.

That said, with the testing protocols and results we've seen in the pros, including MLB, which doesn't employ a bubble, we can control it with due caution and care. Coaches would be on the players like cheap suits.

In a sense I'd rather have a 19 year old on campus than at home with his or her parents. A true multi-generational family is even worse, say 75 year old grandma, mom and dad, and brothers and sisters.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2020 12:11 PM by emu steve.)
08-23-2020 12:09 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #63
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-23-2020 12:09 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 10:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  CMU news

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...421218001/

This may sound crazy, but it is NOT my original idea (although I subscribe to it in these special circumstances). I read it in a newspaper.

I would permit athletes to reside in athletic dorms which was done decades ago. One student-athlete per room.

Other students can live on or off campus as appropriate and feasible depending if there is a reason to be on campus.

That said, with the testing protocols and results we've seen in the pros, including MLB, which doesn't employ a bubble, we can control it with due caution and care. Coaches would be on the players like cheap suits.

In a sense I'd rather have a 19 year old on campus than at home with his or her parents. A true multi-generational family is even worse, say 75 year old grandma, mom and dad, and brothers and sisters.

there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.
08-23-2020 03:42 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #64
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-23-2020 03:42 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 12:09 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 10:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  CMU news

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...421218001/

This may sound crazy, but it is NOT my original idea (although I subscribe to it in these special circumstances). I read it in a newspaper.

I would permit athletes to reside in athletic dorms which was done decades ago. One student-athlete per room.

Other students can live on or off campus as appropriate and feasible depending if there is a reason to be on campus.

That said, with the testing protocols and results we've seen in the pros, including MLB, which doesn't employ a bubble, we can control it with due caution and care. Coaches would be on the players like cheap suits.

In a sense I'd rather have a 19 year old on campus than at home with his or her parents. A true multi-generational family is even worse, say 75 year old grandma, mom and dad, and brothers and sisters.

there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.

State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.
08-23-2020 04:58 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #65
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-23-2020 03:42 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 12:09 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 10:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  CMU news

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...421218001/

This may sound crazy, but it is NOT my original idea (although I subscribe to it in these special circumstances). I read it in a newspaper.

I would permit athletes to reside in athletic dorms which was done decades ago. One student-athlete per room.

Other students can live on or off campus as appropriate and feasible depending if there is a reason to be on campus.

That said, with the testing protocols and results we've seen in the pros, including MLB, which doesn't employ a bubble, we can control it with due caution and care. Coaches would be on the players like cheap suits.

In a sense I'd rather have a 19 year old on campus than at home with his or her parents. A true multi-generational family is even worse, say 75 year old grandma, mom and dad, and brothers and sisters.

there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.

Dan, regrettably you are correct, the decision of the ACC, SEC and Big 12 to play on is a tacit admission that athletes are at best, semi-pro participants. Regardless of that admission, however, many kids want to play and prohibiting them from doing so presents another legal issue.

The idea of paying players will have a BUNCH of unintended consequences. When just a handful of NCAA athletic programs actually make money, requiring everyone to compensate players will result in a binary choice. One: you can simply jack up the tuition to normal students to cover those costs and pray that does not negatively impact enrollment. Or, Two: you will see most of the Universities in our country decide to downscale their programs and offer less if any scholarships. The result will be largely white athletes from reasonably affluent families comprising most NCAA rosters while superior inner city athletes are shut out from the academic opportunity that our current system provides. I am on board with neither.
08-23-2020 05:31 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #66
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-23-2020 04:58 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 03:42 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 12:09 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 10:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  CMU news

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...421218001/

This may sound crazy, but it is NOT my original idea (although I subscribe to it in these special circumstances). I read it in a newspaper.

I would permit athletes to reside in athletic dorms which was done decades ago. One student-athlete per room.

Other students can live on or off campus as appropriate and feasible depending if there is a reason to be on campus.

That said, with the testing protocols and results we've seen in the pros, including MLB, which doesn't employ a bubble, we can control it with due caution and care. Coaches would be on the players like cheap suits.

In a sense I'd rather have a 19 year old on campus than at home with his or her parents. A true multi-generational family is even worse, say 75 year old grandma, mom and dad, and brothers and sisters.

there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.

State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.

college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.
08-24-2020 07:23 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 07:23 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 04:58 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 03:42 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 12:09 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 10:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  CMU news

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...421218001/

This may sound crazy, but it is NOT my original idea (although I subscribe to it in these special circumstances). I read it in a newspaper.

I would permit athletes to reside in athletic dorms which was done decades ago. One student-athlete per room.

Other students can live on or off campus as appropriate and feasible depending if there is a reason to be on campus.

That said, with the testing protocols and results we've seen in the pros, including MLB, which doesn't employ a bubble, we can control it with due caution and care. Coaches would be on the players like cheap suits.

In a sense I'd rather have a 19 year old on campus than at home with his or her parents. A true multi-generational family is even worse, say 75 year old grandma, mom and dad, and brothers and sisters.

there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.

State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.

college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.

Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.
08-24-2020 09:42 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #68
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 07:23 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 04:58 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 03:42 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 12:09 PM)emu steve Wrote:  This may sound crazy, but it is NOT my original idea (although I subscribe to it in these special circumstances). I read it in a newspaper.

I would permit athletes to reside in athletic dorms which was done decades ago. One student-athlete per room.

Other students can live on or off campus as appropriate and feasible depending if there is a reason to be on campus.

That said, with the testing protocols and results we've seen in the pros, including MLB, which doesn't employ a bubble, we can control it with due caution and care. Coaches would be on the players like cheap suits.

In a sense I'd rather have a 19 year old on campus than at home with his or her parents. A true multi-generational family is even worse, say 75 year old grandma, mom and dad, and brothers and sisters.

there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.

State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.

college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.

Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.

if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.
08-24-2020 09:47 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #69
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 09:47 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 07:23 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 04:58 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 03:42 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.

State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.

college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.

Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.

if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.

Wow. You are suggesting turning college athletics into a pro model. If anyone can make the MAC have a business model like the B1G I have a job for you in CLE (MAC office) and a bridge to sell you.

Currently, the model is one of amateur athletics using the student-athlete model.

As indicated they get a college scholarship with room and board, a monthly stipend, training meals, access to trainers and various types of medical care.

Remember when we use the word 'compensation' that it would hurt conferences like the MAC.

Would a B1G player get X times greater stipend than a MAC stipend.

Do you want the MAC to be like a semi-pro league offering meager stipends compared to the P5? Why would an athlete go to MAC for say $400 / month stipend if say the B1G could offer stipends of 4K/month???
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2020 10:48 AM by emu steve.)
08-24-2020 10:44 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #70
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 10:44 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:47 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 07:23 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 04:58 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.

college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.

Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.

if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.

Wow. You are suggesting turning college athletics into a pro model. If anyone can make the MAC have a business model like the B1G I have a job for you in CLE (MAC office) and a bridge to sell you.

Currently, the model is one of amateur athletics using the student-athlete model.

As indicated they get a college scholarship with room and board, a monthly stipend, training meals, access to trainers and various types of medical care.

Remember when we use the word 'compensation' that it would hurt conferences like the MAC.

Would a B1G player get X times greater stipend than a MAC stipend.

Do you want the MAC to be like a semi-pro league offering meager stipends compared to the P5? Why would an athlete go to MAC for say $400 / month stipend if say the B1G could offer stipends of 4K/month???

im arguing that players (workers) should be allowed to collectively bargain their compensation with management (schools, coaches, the NCAA).
08-24-2020 10:49 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 09:47 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 07:23 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 04:58 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 03:42 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  there are definitely students who are safer at university than they are at home. that being said - the whole premise of the 'student athlete' is that they are students doing extra curricular activities. amateurs. you cant require football players to stay on campus and work and keep everyone else at home without admitting they arent students but employees and this - not amateurs. pay players. unionize them too.

State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.

college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.

Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.

if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.

Ask those who have to borrow and work to get a college degree while paying assessments for athletic programs that can't support themselves. Talk about a bad business model. The many supporting the few
08-24-2020 11:59 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #72
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 11:59 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:47 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 07:23 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-23-2020 04:58 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  State employees wouldn't be required to maintain grades, go to class, or carry a certain amount of hours. If you don't want to play football as a student
don't. No one is twisting anybody's arm. It is a privilege to play. Last numbers I saw, costs for the average public University was about $26,500 a year
and private school double that. So $106,000 or $212,000 for 4 years depending on the school.

college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.

Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.

if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.

Ask those who have to borrow and work to get a college degree while paying assessments for athletic programs that can't support themselves. Talk about a bad business model. The many supporting the few

do students other students generate a product of value for the university? theres a report out there that iowa is losing out on generating about 100 mil from their football team. who earns that money?
08-24-2020 12:01 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
PS Iowa is cutting certain sports.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2020 12:02 PM by emu79.)
08-24-2020 12:01 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #74
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 12:01 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:59 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:47 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 07:23 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  college athletes - football players specifically - create a product that has value. that's why we all post on this message board. you can hem and haw over what that specific value is - but as a whole based on TV contracts the product that college football players create seems to be in the billions of dollars range in terms of value - as a group that is. these creators of a product that has value - you may call them 'workers' - should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain for better work conditions and compensation.

Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.

if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.

Ask those who have to borrow and work to get a college degree while paying assessments for athletic programs that can't support themselves. Talk about a bad business model. The many supporting the few

do students other students generate a product of value for the university? theres a report out there that iowa is losing out on generating about 100 mil from their football team. who earns that money?

There are two 'models' for college athletics:

"The Haves":

Football (and sometimes) basketball helps support the so-called Olympic, non-revenue sports.

Some of these schools (mostly in P5 conferences) cover their costs and are not a financial drain on their schools.

Others, not so. Iowa mentioned because of the loss of CFB monies this fall. Maryland is deep in the whole. I believe Rutgers is also.

These are like the "major leagues" - some make money, but some lose money.

"The Have Nots"

These are schools which flat out do not raise enough revenues to cover direct or indirect costs of running the programs.

If they were run on a 'business model' they would have to cut all Olympic sports and try to cover the cost of FB, MBB and WBB. Cut all the Olympic sports and folks would howl because the schools are acting more like minor leagues for the pro leagues rather than college sports entities.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2020 12:40 PM by emu steve.)
08-24-2020 12:38 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #75
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 12:38 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:01 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:59 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:47 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Which in turn means most will lose their jobs as colleges close down their athletic programs or eliminate sports. Most athletic programs are on life support right now.

if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.

Ask those who have to borrow and work to get a college degree while paying assessments for athletic programs that can't support themselves. Talk about a bad business model. The many supporting the few

do students other students generate a product of value for the university? theres a report out there that iowa is losing out on generating about 100 mil from their football team. who earns that money?

There are two 'models' for college athletics:

"The Haves":

Football (and sometimes) basketball helps support the so-called Olympic, non-revenue sports.

Some of these schools (mostly in P5 conferences) cover their costs and are not a financial drain on their schools.

Others, not so. Iowa mentioned because of the loss of CFB monies this fall. Maryland is deep in the whole. I believe Rutgers is also.

These are like the "major leagues" - some make money, but some lose money.

"The Have Nots"

These are schools which flat out do not raise enough revenues to cover direct or indirect costs of running the programs.

If they were run on a 'business model' they would have to cut all Olympic sports and try to cover the cost of FB, MBB and WBB. Cut all the Olympic sports and folks would howl because the schools are acting more like minor leagues for the pro leagues rather than college sports entities.

may i offer a counter proposal? all football and basketball players in division 1 unionize and redistribute a salary across all team through revenue sharing just like the pros. smaller schools would benefit greatly from this arrangement - thus turning EMU to the tampa bay rays.
08-24-2020 12:58 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #76
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:38 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:01 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:59 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 09:47 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  if your business model is dependent on an unpaid at worst or severely underpaid at best workforce then i strongly suggest updating your business model.

Ask those who have to borrow and work to get a college degree while paying assessments for athletic programs that can't support themselves. Talk about a bad business model. The many supporting the few

do students other students generate a product of value for the university? theres a report out there that iowa is losing out on generating about 100 mil from their football team. who earns that money?

There are two 'models' for college athletics:

"The Haves":

Football (and sometimes) basketball helps support the so-called Olympic, non-revenue sports.

Some of these schools (mostly in P5 conferences) cover their costs and are not a financial drain on their schools.

Others, not so. Iowa mentioned because of the loss of CFB monies this fall. Maryland is deep in the whole. I believe Rutgers is also.

These are like the "major leagues" - some make money, but some lose money.

"The Have Nots"

These are schools which flat out do not raise enough revenues to cover direct or indirect costs of running the programs.

If they were run on a 'business model' they would have to cut all Olympic sports and try to cover the cost of FB, MBB and WBB. Cut all the Olympic sports and folks would howl because the schools are acting more like minor leagues for the pro leagues rather than college sports entities.

may i offer a counter proposal? all football and basketball players in division 1 unionize and redistribute a salary across all team through revenue sharing just like the pros. smaller schools would benefit greatly from this arrangement - thus turning EMU to the tampa bay rays.

Really Dan? Please DO NOT open that bottle, it will be impossible to put the genie back in it. I respect and revere the ability of any American to leverage their efforts and talent to their greatest economic benefit. If a young athlete enrolls at a NCAA institution, his benefits are clearly defined, scholarship players receive free tuition, room, board and an opportunity to showcase their talents for the professional leagues while being a BMOC and enjoying the associated benefits of such. It is a great deal for a young athlete.

The success of NCAA sports is hardly dependent on the quality of its athletes. Due to the the fact that today's NCAA players can leave school to the pro leagues prior to graduation, the quality gap in play between pro and amateur sports has become immense. Jordan, James Worthy and Sam Perkins played together for more than one year at UNC, yet their accomplishments were not earthshaking due to the competition they encountered. Today all three would be one and done.

Still the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided despite the diminished talents of its participants. The revenue generated from NCAA football and basketball is NOT dependent on the participants, B1G fans would buy just as many season tickets, the TV contracts would be just as huge and everything would remain as the status quo if their roster and conference opponent quality assimilated those in the MAC. Why would I want to turn that system on its head?

Force the Pro Leagues to establish minor leagues for those players demanding compensation, leave the University's alone.
08-24-2020 06:00 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #77
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-24-2020 06:00 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:38 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:01 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 11:59 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Ask those who have to borrow and work to get a college degree while paying assessments for athletic programs that can't support themselves. Talk about a bad business model. The many supporting the few

do students other students generate a product of value for the university? theres a report out there that iowa is losing out on generating about 100 mil from their football team. who earns that money?

There are two 'models' for college athletics:

"The Haves":

Football (and sometimes) basketball helps support the so-called Olympic, non-revenue sports.

Some of these schools (mostly in P5 conferences) cover their costs and are not a financial drain on their schools.

Others, not so. Iowa mentioned because of the loss of CFB monies this fall. Maryland is deep in the whole. I believe Rutgers is also.

These are like the "major leagues" - some make money, but some lose money.

"The Have Nots"

These are schools which flat out do not raise enough revenues to cover direct or indirect costs of running the programs.

If they were run on a 'business model' they would have to cut all Olympic sports and try to cover the cost of FB, MBB and WBB. Cut all the Olympic sports and folks would howl because the schools are acting more like minor leagues for the pro leagues rather than college sports entities.

may i offer a counter proposal? all football and basketball players in division 1 unionize and redistribute a salary across all team through revenue sharing just like the pros. smaller schools would benefit greatly from this arrangement - thus turning EMU to the tampa bay rays.

Really Dan? Please DO NOT open that bottle, it will be impossible to put the genie back in it. I respect and revere the ability of any American to leverage their efforts and talent to their greatest economic benefit. If a young athlete enrolls at a NCAA institution, his benefits are clearly defined, scholarship players receive free tuition, room, board and an opportunity to showcase their talents for the professional leagues while being a BMOC and enjoying the associated benefits of such. It is a great deal for a young athlete.

The success of NCAA sports is hardly dependent on the quality of its athletes. Due to the the fact that today's NCAA players can leave school to the pro leagues prior to graduation, the quality gap in play between pro and amateur sports has become immense. Jordan, James Worthy and Sam Perkins played together for more than one year at UNC, yet their accomplishments were not earthshaking due to the competition they encountered. Today all three would be one and done.

Still the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided despite the diminished talents of its participants. The revenue generated from NCAA football and basketball is NOT dependent on the participants, B1G fans would buy just as many season tickets, the TV contracts would be just as huge and everything would remain as the status quo if their roster and conference opponent quality assimilated those in the MAC. Why would I want to turn that system on its head?

Force the Pro Leagues to establish minor leagues for those players demanding compensation, leave the University's alone.

so im not sure that the argument that the quality of the product has gone down totally tracks. a top rated high school senior (in any sport) is better now than they were 20-30 years ago due to modern training techniques and nutrition etc.

but you actually sort of make my point later in your post. the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided over the years. the revenue generated may not be dependent on the specific workers - but the revenue is generated and the workers should have the same rights that other workers in fields similar to their own have - such as the right to collectively bargain and unionize. unpaid internships should be illegal. if you do labor you should be able to barter that labor on open market.
08-25-2020 06:38 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #78
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-25-2020 06:38 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 06:00 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:38 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:01 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  do students other students generate a product of value for the university? theres a report out there that iowa is losing out on generating about 100 mil from their football team. who earns that money?

There are two 'models' for college athletics:

"The Haves":

Football (and sometimes) basketball helps support the so-called Olympic, non-revenue sports.

Some of these schools (mostly in P5 conferences) cover their costs and are not a financial drain on their schools.

Others, not so. Iowa mentioned because of the loss of CFB monies this fall. Maryland is deep in the whole. I believe Rutgers is also.

These are like the "major leagues" - some make money, but some lose money.

"The Have Nots"

These are schools which flat out do not raise enough revenues to cover direct or indirect costs of running the programs.

If they were run on a 'business model' they would have to cut all Olympic sports and try to cover the cost of FB, MBB and WBB. Cut all the Olympic sports and folks would howl because the schools are acting more like minor leagues for the pro leagues rather than college sports entities.

may i offer a counter proposal? all football and basketball players in division 1 unionize and redistribute a salary across all team through revenue sharing just like the pros. smaller schools would benefit greatly from this arrangement - thus turning EMU to the tampa bay rays.

Really Dan? Please DO NOT open that bottle, it will be impossible to put the genie back in it. I respect and revere the ability of any American to leverage their efforts and talent to their greatest economic benefit. If a young athlete enrolls at a NCAA institution, his benefits are clearly defined, scholarship players receive free tuition, room, board and an opportunity to showcase their talents for the professional leagues while being a BMOC and enjoying the associated benefits of such. It is a great deal for a young athlete.

The success of NCAA sports is hardly dependent on the quality of its athletes. Due to the the fact that today's NCAA players can leave school to the pro leagues prior to graduation, the quality gap in play between pro and amateur sports has become immense. Jordan, James Worthy and Sam Perkins played together for more than one year at UNC, yet their accomplishments were not earthshaking due to the competition they encountered. Today all three would be one and done.

Still the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided despite the diminished talents of its participants. The revenue generated from NCAA football and basketball is NOT dependent on the participants, B1G fans would buy just as many season tickets, the TV contracts would be just as huge and everything would remain as the status quo if their roster and conference opponent quality assimilated those in the MAC. Why would I want to turn that system on its head?

Force the Pro Leagues to establish minor leagues for those players demanding compensation, leave the University's alone.

so im not sure that the argument that the quality of the product has gone down totally tracks. a top rated high school senior (in any sport) is better now than they were 20-30 years ago due to modern training techniques and nutrition etc.

but you actually sort of make my point later in your post. the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided over the years. the revenue generated may not be dependent on the specific workers - but the revenue is generated and the workers should have the same rights that other workers in fields similar to their own have - such as the right to collectively bargain and unionize. unpaid internships should be illegal. if you do labor you should be able to barter that labor on open market.

And high school athletes? 03-idea Are high school athletes (FB, basketball, baseball) employees because they provide entertainment like the pros and fans are charged admission (ala the NFL)?

Would junior high school sports be shut down under child labor laws?
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2020 07:17 AM by emu steve.)
08-25-2020 07:14 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #79
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-25-2020 07:14 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-25-2020 06:38 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 06:00 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:38 PM)emu steve Wrote:  There are two 'models' for college athletics:

"The Haves":

Football (and sometimes) basketball helps support the so-called Olympic, non-revenue sports.

Some of these schools (mostly in P5 conferences) cover their costs and are not a financial drain on their schools.

Others, not so. Iowa mentioned because of the loss of CFB monies this fall. Maryland is deep in the whole. I believe Rutgers is also.

These are like the "major leagues" - some make money, but some lose money.

"The Have Nots"

These are schools which flat out do not raise enough revenues to cover direct or indirect costs of running the programs.

If they were run on a 'business model' they would have to cut all Olympic sports and try to cover the cost of FB, MBB and WBB. Cut all the Olympic sports and folks would howl because the schools are acting more like minor leagues for the pro leagues rather than college sports entities.

may i offer a counter proposal? all football and basketball players in division 1 unionize and redistribute a salary across all team through revenue sharing just like the pros. smaller schools would benefit greatly from this arrangement - thus turning EMU to the tampa bay rays.

Really Dan? Please DO NOT open that bottle, it will be impossible to put the genie back in it. I respect and revere the ability of any American to leverage their efforts and talent to their greatest economic benefit. If a young athlete enrolls at a NCAA institution, his benefits are clearly defined, scholarship players receive free tuition, room, board and an opportunity to showcase their talents for the professional leagues while being a BMOC and enjoying the associated benefits of such. It is a great deal for a young athlete.

The success of NCAA sports is hardly dependent on the quality of its athletes. Due to the the fact that today's NCAA players can leave school to the pro leagues prior to graduation, the quality gap in play between pro and amateur sports has become immense. Jordan, James Worthy and Sam Perkins played together for more than one year at UNC, yet their accomplishments were not earthshaking due to the competition they encountered. Today all three would be one and done.

Still the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided despite the diminished talents of its participants. The revenue generated from NCAA football and basketball is NOT dependent on the participants, B1G fans would buy just as many season tickets, the TV contracts would be just as huge and everything would remain as the status quo if their roster and conference opponent quality assimilated those in the MAC. Why would I want to turn that system on its head?

Force the Pro Leagues to establish minor leagues for those players demanding compensation, leave the University's alone.

so im not sure that the argument that the quality of the product has gone down totally tracks. a top rated high school senior (in any sport) is better now than they were 20-30 years ago due to modern training techniques and nutrition etc.

but you actually sort of make my point later in your post. the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided over the years. the revenue generated may not be dependent on the specific workers - but the revenue is generated and the workers should have the same rights that other workers in fields similar to their own have - such as the right to collectively bargain and unionize. unpaid internships should be illegal. if you do labor you should be able to barter that labor on open market.

And high school athletes? 03-idea Are high school athletes (FB, basketball, baseball) employees because they provide entertainment like the pros and fans are charged admission (ala the NFL)?

Would junior high school sports be shut down under child labor laws?

high school sports do not generate the level of income that that collegiate athletics do but hey there are labor laws for child actors - why not create a framework for kids? should the need arise that is.
08-25-2020 07:39 AM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Posts: 3,687
Joined: Oct 2017
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I Root For: EMU
Location: Ann Arbor
Post: #80
RE: MAC CANCELS FALL FOOTBALL
(08-25-2020 07:39 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-25-2020 07:14 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(08-25-2020 06:38 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 06:00 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(08-24-2020 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  may i offer a counter proposal? all football and basketball players in division 1 unionize and redistribute a salary across all team through revenue sharing just like the pros. smaller schools would benefit greatly from this arrangement - thus turning EMU to the tampa bay rays.

Really Dan? Please DO NOT open that bottle, it will be impossible to put the genie back in it. I respect and revere the ability of any American to leverage their efforts and talent to their greatest economic benefit. If a young athlete enrolls at a NCAA institution, his benefits are clearly defined, scholarship players receive free tuition, room, board and an opportunity to showcase their talents for the professional leagues while being a BMOC and enjoying the associated benefits of such. It is a great deal for a young athlete.

The success of NCAA sports is hardly dependent on the quality of its athletes. Due to the the fact that today's NCAA players can leave school to the pro leagues prior to graduation, the quality gap in play between pro and amateur sports has become immense. Jordan, James Worthy and Sam Perkins played together for more than one year at UNC, yet their accomplishments were not earthshaking due to the competition they encountered. Today all three would be one and done.

Still the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided despite the diminished talents of its participants. The revenue generated from NCAA football and basketball is NOT dependent on the participants, B1G fans would buy just as many season tickets, the TV contracts would be just as huge and everything would remain as the status quo if their roster and conference opponent quality assimilated those in the MAC. Why would I want to turn that system on its head?

Force the Pro Leagues to establish minor leagues for those players demanding compensation, leave the University's alone.

so im not sure that the argument that the quality of the product has gone down totally tracks. a top rated high school senior (in any sport) is better now than they were 20-30 years ago due to modern training techniques and nutrition etc.

but you actually sort of make my point later in your post. the interest in NCAA sports has not subsided over the years. the revenue generated may not be dependent on the specific workers - but the revenue is generated and the workers should have the same rights that other workers in fields similar to their own have - such as the right to collectively bargain and unionize. unpaid internships should be illegal. if you do labor you should be able to barter that labor on open market.

And high school athletes? 03-idea Are high school athletes (FB, basketball, baseball) employees because they provide entertainment like the pros and fans are charged admission (ala the NFL)?

Would junior high school sports be shut down under child labor laws?

high school sports do not generate the level of income that that collegiate athletics do but hey there are labor laws for child actors - why not create a framework for kids? should the need arise that is.

I think we have exhausted the subject of player compensation. Dan is indeed passionate about the subject and while few may agree with him, I do respect his passion for such.
08-25-2020 06:14 PM
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