(08-05-2020 05:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: (08-05-2020 04:49 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: I would say WVU is a more natural fit for the ACC. They have a ton of history with former Big East members and independents Pitt, Syracuse, VT, Miami, and BC. They would resume a pretty natural rivalry with Louisville. They are close to UVA, and they would love playing against the NC schools, Clemson, and FSU. They fit into the ACC geographically way better than they would the SEC. Some may say WVU academics aren't up to ACC snuff, but on the last school to be invited to the ACC was Louisville. And, what kind of history do they even have with SEC schools?
I've said this before, but not every school from a small town that's good at football has to be in the SEC. I've read many times that Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia should be in the SEC. If anything, maybe it is the other way around. Maybe schools like Florida and Vanderbilt, as academic strongholds, should be in the ACC. I'll throw in South Carolina and Georgia, too.
Completely agree. WVU is a natural for the ACC...so is UMD.
Also, the southeastern schools from Florida, Georgia and South Carolina seem very similar...regardless whether they are in the ACC or SEC. If they could split-off from their respective conferences, they would be a cohesive powerhouse.
Back in '92 I was not convinced at all that any of the conferences should pursue the dangling carrot of market footprint subscription pay models. Content has always bee a big driver in ratings and ratings (no matter how collected) have always been a driver of advertising rates.
What most still do not grasp is that had South Carolina rejoined the ACC and Georgia Tech rejoined the SEC and Florida State moved to the SEC from independence both conferences would have had more natural fits, with ownership of rivalry games that are worth watching every year. But it didn't happen that way because ESPN saw an opportunity to split the larger markets between conferences and sought early on to do so. What they saw was that they could maximize ad rates by owning the top schools from each state, but not have to pass along that profit if those states were split. They had in deliberately making sure Florida was split, in formulating the idea of N.C. State and Va Tech to the SEC and trying to sell it, of luring Texas A&M out of the Big 12, all in an effort to max the ad rates for themselves without giving any one conference the hammer in any of those large market states. North Carolina and Virginia protected their self interest by in large because they product was already in the conference. Tennessee, Mississippi, and Alabama weren't market giants so splitting them didn't make sense.
They want Notre Dame badly because Notre Dame is an advertising back door into many Big 10 cities where ESPN could collect without having to buy another majorly expensive product like the SEC. Right now having 48-9% gives them enough access to Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State to make them happy.
It was clear even before the last contract negotiation for the SEC that ESPN wanted all of our rights, and look at what they hold with the AAC. The control markets from New England past the Mississippi River into the Midwest and Southwest and all the way to the Keys and they don't have to truly pay any one conference for the major states other than 2 states in the ACC and then they are predominantly basketball products so the cost is still relatively low.
Most message boards focus on "Conference Acquisitions". People should take the time to plot the rights that ESPN holds on a map. Then they would see the farce of Market Footprint Subscription adds for what they were, a sucker's move to bribe conferences out of their most natural fits and to keep them from acquiring dominance in any large markets.
In fact if the old model of expansion which was originally predicated on geographical fit, and cultural fit (think agreeing with sports priority) were what mattered then realignment might well have been quite different and a bit more pleasing to the average fan.
For instance in the very early 70's Bear Bryant was willing to extend an olive branch to Georgia Tech and wanted Bobby Dodd to reapply to the SEC and Alabama would sponsor their membership. If Georgia Tech reapplies in '72 then Florida State likely joins the SEC in '92. At approximately the same time Kentucky was rethinking their future in the SEC. With expansion looking every more to the Southeast and Southwest UK saw their culture as being somewhat an outlier even though they relished the easy path to the NCAA tourney that they had in the SEC. So let's assume that after Georgia Tech rejoins the SEC that Kentucky decides to join the ACC.
The SEC is now a 12 team conference as of 1992 and may have taken Florida State in the mid to late 80's when Bowden first applied if Georgia Tech had become the 11th member in the early 70's.
So the SEC goes to 12 teams half a decade earlier:
SEC East: Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt (Remember Tennessee seldom played Florida or Georgia prior to '92 but they played Alabama every year.)
SEC West: Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee (And in keeping with regionality and the rise of another Florida school and given that all SEC teams at this time were becoming concerned with recruiting trips to a growing Sunshine State, Miami becomes the 6th team in the West.
The 8 team ACC in the mid 70's is this: Clemson, Duke, Kentucky, Maryland, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Wake Forest.
With rivalries already fearful of the growth of realignment and 12 team conferences for the sake of having a Championship game which was the brain child of Roy Kramer, South Carolina reapplies to the ACC in an effort to remain with Clemson. Becoming the 9th school in the ACC. Virginia Tech seems natural for 10th. West Virginia and Pitt are added to move to 12 and to have the playoff.
ACC North: Kentucky, Maryland, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
ACC South: Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina, Wake Forest
The Big 10 expands naturally as well. It is not lost on the Big 8 that they they can't survive even regionally with a conference that small.
Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, and Oklahoma join the Big 10 taking them to 14.. Oklahoma is not worried about the Texas game because they aren't in the same conference anyway.
Big 10 West: Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Big 10 East: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Purdue
The PAC sees the moves and makes a play for Texas but the SWC hasn't yet decided to call it quits. The add the two Arizona schools to move to 10.
Things rock along this way until Texas realizes that a 2 state conference, no matter how well they like it just won't work. They are in talks with the PAC but A&M doesn't want to head West and Broyles is scared of Arkansas being left out.
Texas agrees to join the PAC along with Colorado to take the PAC to 12 only Rice has not stepped back in football and they become the Horns travel companion to the PAC and with another needed Utah gets the nod anyway. The PAC jumps from 10 to 14. Arkansas and Texas A&M join the SEC taking them to 14.
Penn State has some thinking to do as does Notre Dame. The ACC is at 12 and the Irish refuse to head to the Big 10 and Penn State seems a bridge to far given the expansion thus far and the limited slots left for the Big 10. So Penn State and Notre Dame join the ACC especially since as things are shaping up we truly are going to have a P4.
Now we have a P4 of 56 schools:
SEC West: Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Miami, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
SEC East: Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
ACC North: Kentucky, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
ACC South: Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest
Big 10 East: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Purdue
Big 10 West: Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Wisconsin
PAC South: Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Colorado, Texas, Southern Cal, Rice
PAC North: California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Utah, Washington, Washington State
The money winds up being better because of the match ups inside and outside the conference.
Every conference moves to a 9 game conference schedule playing 6 in division and either 2 permanent rivals and rotating 1 or rotating 2 and playing 1 permanent rival.
Each conference has 2 OOC P games to keep rivalries or vary schedules. Texas plays A&M and Oklahoma. Notre Dame still keeps USC a Deep South game, and plays Navy as their non P OOC game.
And before you get bent out of shape over Rice they were full members playing the major sports in the SWC prior to its breakup and academically they would have been acceptable to the PAC.
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So Georgia Tech Swagger since all of the moves get started with Bear's olive branch to Dodd Georgia Tech has nobody but itself to blame that something like this didn't happen.
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Best fit after move into a new P5
