(08-06-2020 11:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-06-2020 12:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  We can unquestionably survive the "crypto-socialist/communist" - I'm not an expert on their policy positions, but something tells me Harris/Rice would both be considered moderate in most Western European political arenas, and we haven't see those countries fall apart yet.

No, they wouldn't, and I'm getting really tired of this. They would be considered moderate in their welfare proposals, but not in their sources of funding.

Here's the big difference. European "social democracies" see social programs as a safety net, kind of an insurance policy where everybody pays premiums and everybody draws benefits. They do not see them as income redistribution schemes, and in fact they tend to make their tax structures very competitive to attract investment and growth. They may have some redistributive effects, but those are not the primary intention.

American "democratic socialists" see tax and welfare as ways to redistribute income and wealth.

If you want to reduce inequality, there are two ways--make rich people poorer or make poor people richer. European social democrats seek to make poor people richer, US democrats seek to make rich people poorer.

"Democratic socialists" and "social democrats" sound kind of alike, but it kind of matters which is the noun and which is the adjective.

You've said all this before, so I think he must not be listening.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...li=BBnb7Kz

If Biden wins, I want an investigation into China-Iran--Biden collusion.

(08-07-2020 05:09 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...li=BBnb7Kz
If Biden wins, I want an investigation into China-Iran--Biden collusion.

If democrats control congress, you'll never see it.

(08-07-2020 05:09 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...li=BBnb7Kz

If Biden wins, I want an investigation into China-Iran--Biden collusion.

And as an illustration of the bias in certain MSM outlets, here is the NYT article:

Russia still trying to help Trump

Selective editing and reporting. But it will fool a lot of the Democratic base.

At this point, we are in Cold War II, and the enemy is China, not Russia.

In that regard, I would be far more worried about any China connections than I am about any Russian connections, alleged or real.

But worrying about China does nothing to advance the ultimate goal of getting Trump.

(08-08-2020 11:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  At this point, we are in Cold War II, and the enemy is China, not Russia.

In that regard, I would be far more worried about any China connections than I am about any Russian connections, alleged or real.

I feel like we have two main issues to deal with - Russian interference in our political life, which filters down through our society, and Chinese interference in geopolitics and the economy, which does the same.

I think we need to be worried about how both candidates interact with both countries and manage their relationships.

Thank goodness Biden has an expert on China he can consult in Hunter.

Just read a long article in the Times that references the one you posted - it’s basically a summary of how Trump has influenced the intelligence agency in such a way that officials there often adjust how they present intelligence to POTUS, and often times what makes it in to statements. It calls out the statement that is the basis of that article as a perfect example of the politicizing of intelligence, primarily due to Trump’s perspective that the intelligence agency is working for him, and not the USA. I highly suggest reading it.

A statement at the end was very sobering.

Quote: It called to mind something the former C.I.A. acting director Michael Morell said several months before, when we were discussing Russia’s interference in the 2016 election. “This is the only time in American history when we’ve been attacked by a foreign country and not come together as a nation,” Morell said. “In fact, it split us further apart. It was an inexpensive, relatively easy to carry out covert mission. It deepened our divisions. I’m absolutely convinced that those Russian intelligence officers who put together and managed the attack on our democracy in 2016 all received medals personally from Vladimir Putin.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/08/magaz...gence.html

(08-08-2020 11:58 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Thank goodness Biden has an expert on China he can consult in Hunter.

Unlike Trump, my guess is Biden will not place his own family members in positions of power within the WH.

(08-08-2020 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 05:09 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...li=BBnb7Kz

If Biden wins, I want an investigation into China-Iran--Biden collusion.

And as an illustration of the bias in certain MSM outlets, here is the NYT article:

Russia still trying to help Trump

Selective editing and reporting. But it will fool a lot of the Democratic base.

The statement put out by intelligence agencies basically laid out very specific accusations of Russian meddling, and then some broad, handwavy descriptions of China/Iran.

Quote: While both Beijing and Moscow have a preference, the Chinese and Russian influence campaigns are very different, officials said.

Outside of a few scattered examples, it is hard to find much evidence of intensifying Chinese influence efforts that could have a national effect.

Much of what China is doing currently amounts to using its economic might to influence local politics, officials said. But that is hardly new. Beijing is also using a variety of means to push back on various Trump administration policies, including tariffs and bans on Chinese tech companies, but those efforts are not covert and it is unclear if they would have an effect on presidential politics.

Russia, but not China, is trying to “actively influence” the outcome of the 2020 election, said the American official briefed on the underlying intelligence.

“The fact that adversaries like China or Iran don’t like an American president’s policies is normal fare,” said Jeremy Bash, a former Obama administration official. “What’s abnormal, disturbing and dangerous is that an adversary like Russia is actively trying to get Trump re-elected.”

(08-08-2020 12:05 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 05:09 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...li=BBnb7Kz

If Biden wins, I want an investigation into China-Iran--Biden collusion.

And as an illustration of the bias in certain MSM outlets, here is the NYT article:

Russia still trying to help Trump

Selective editing and reporting. But it will fool a lot of the Democratic base.

The statement put out by intelligence agencies basically laid out very specific accusations of Russian meddling, and then some broad, handwavy descriptions of China/Iran.

Quote: While both Beijing and Moscow have a preference, the Chinese and Russian influence campaigns are very different, officials said.

Outside of a few scattered examples, it is hard to find much evidence of intensifying Chinese influence efforts that could have a national effect.

Much of what China is doing currently amounts to using its economic might to influence local politics, officials said. But that is hardly new. Beijing is also using a variety of means to push back on various Trump administration policies, including tariffs and bans on Chinese tech companies, but those efforts are not covert and it is unclear if they would have an effect on presidential politics.

Russia, but not China, is trying to “actively influence” the outcome of the 2020 election, said the American official briefed on the underlying intelligence.

“The fact that adversaries like China or Iran don’t like an American president’s policies is normal fare,” said Jeremy Bash, a former Obama administration official. “What’s abnormal, disturbing and dangerous is that an adversary like Russia is actively trying to get Trump re-elected.”

What does “actively influence” mean? Buying some ads? Seriously, tell me.

Bash is well named. Former Obama official? I wonder where his loyalties lie?

Seriously, Lad, what do you and/or Bash mean by “actively influence”? Are there Russians sneaking into courthouses without ID and voting multiple times for Trump? Maybe the Russians are bribing election officials with wheelbarrow loads of rubles?

You tell me something concrete, else this is just more empty innuendo.

Got anything?

(08-08-2020 12:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:05 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 09:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 05:09 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...li=BBnb7Kz

If Biden wins, I want an investigation into China-Iran--Biden collusion.

And as an illustration of the bias in certain MSM outlets, here is the NYT article:

Russia still trying to help Trump

Selective editing and reporting. But it will fool a lot of the Democratic base.

The statement put out by intelligence agencies basically laid out very specific accusations of Russian meddling, and then some broad, handwavy descriptions of China/Iran.

Quote: While both Beijing and Moscow have a preference, the Chinese and Russian influence campaigns are very different, officials said.

Outside of a few scattered examples, it is hard to find much evidence of intensifying Chinese influence efforts that could have a national effect.

Much of what China is doing currently amounts to using its economic might to influence local politics, officials said. But that is hardly new. Beijing is also using a variety of means to push back on various Trump administration policies, including tariffs and bans on Chinese tech companies, but those efforts are not covert and it is unclear if they would have an effect on presidential politics.

Russia, but not China, is trying to “actively influence” the outcome of the 2020 election, said the American official briefed on the underlying intelligence.

“The fact that adversaries like China or Iran don’t like an American president’s policies is normal fare,” said Jeremy Bash, a former Obama administration official. “What’s abnormal, disturbing and dangerous is that an adversary like Russia is actively trying to get Trump re-elected.”

What does “actively influence” mean? Buying some ads? Seriously, tell me.

Bash is well named. Former Obama official? I wonder where his loyalties lie?

From the DNI statement itself:

Quote: They may also seek to compromise our election infrastructure for a range of possible purposes, such as interfering with the voting process, stealing sensitive data, or calling into question the validity of the election results. However, it would be difficult for our adversaries to interfere with or manipulate voting results at scale...

RUSSIA – We assess that Russia is using a range of measures to primarily denigrate former Vice President Biden and what it sees as an anti-Russia “establishment.” This is consistent with Moscow’s public criticism of him when he was Vice President for his role in the Obama Administration’s policies on Ukraine and its support for the anti-Putin opposition inside Russia. For example, pro-Russia Ukrainian parliamentarian Andriy Derkach is spreading claims about corruption – including through publicizing leaked phone calls – to undermine former Vice President Biden’s candidacy and the Democratic Party. Some Kremlin-linked actors are also seeking to boost President Trump’s candidacy on social media and Russian television.

OMG! All you have is denigrating Biden? By publicizing his record. Oh, how devious. Makes underwing Hillary by publishing he yoga schedules positively amateurish. Whoop-ti-do.

Another nothingburger amplified by the DNC to prey on fears that the DNC is amplifying to, ahem, denigrate Trump.

Do you read any of this critically, or just swallow it?

(08-08-2020 12:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  OMG! All you have is denigrating Biden? By publicizing his record. Oh, how devious. Makes underwing Hillary by publishing he yoga schedules positively amateurish. Whoop-ti-do.

Another nothingburger amplified by the DNC to prey on fears that the DNC is amplifying to, ahem, denigrate Trump.

Do you read any of this critically, or just swallow it?

Do you know where the quote I just posted came from?

Here is the previous assessments take on Russia:

Quote: Today, we see our adversaries seeking to compromise the private communications of U.S. political campaigns, candidates and other political targets. Our adversaries also seek to compromise our election infrastructure, and we continue to monitor malicious cyber actors trying to gain access to U.S. state and federal networks, including those responsible for managing elections. However, the diversity of election systems among the states, multiple checks and redundancies in those systems, and post-election auditing all make it extraordinarily difficult for foreign adversaries to broadly disrupt or change vote tallies without detection...

Russia’s persistent objective is to weaken the United States and diminish our global role. Using a range of efforts, including internet trolls and other proxies, Russia continues to spread disinformation in the U.S. that is designed to undermine confidence in our democratic process and denigrate what it sees as an anti-Russia “establishment” in America.

(08-08-2020 12:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  OMG! All you have is denigrating Biden? By publicizing his record. Oh, how devious. Makes underwing Hillary by publishing he yoga schedules positively amateurish. Whoop-ti-do.

Another nothingburger amplified by the DNC to prey on fears that the DNC is amplifying to, ahem, denigrate Trump.

Do you read any of this critically, or just swallow it?

Do you know where the quote I just posted came from?

Here is the previous assessments take on Russia:

Quote: Today, we see our adversaries seeking to compromise the private communications of U.S. political campaigns, candidates and other political targets. Our adversaries also seek to compromise our election infrastructure, and we continue to monitor malicious cyber actors trying to gain access to U.S. state and federal networks, including those responsible for managing elections. However, the diversity of election systems among the states, multiple checks and redundancies in those systems, and post-election auditing all make it extraordinarily difficult for foreign adversaries to broadly disrupt or change vote tallies without detection...

Russia’s persistent objective is to weaken the United States and diminish our global role. Using a range of efforts, including internet trolls and other proxies, Russia continues to spread disinformation in the U.S. that is designed to undermine confidence in our democratic process and denigrate what it sees as an anti-Russia “establishment” in America.

Oh dear. It really is a conspiracy against the Democrats.

(08-08-2020 12:46 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  OMG! All you have is denigrating Biden? By publicizing his record. Oh, how devious. Makes underwing Hillary by publishing he yoga schedules positively amateurish. Whoop-ti-do.

Another nothingburger amplified by the DNC to prey on fears that the DNC is amplifying to, ahem, denigrate Trump.

Do you read any of this critically, or just swallow it?

Do you know where the quote I just posted came from?

Here is the previous assessments take on Russia:

Quote: Today, we see our adversaries seeking to compromise the private communications of U.S. political campaigns, candidates and other political targets. Our adversaries also seek to compromise our election infrastructure, and we continue to monitor malicious cyber actors trying to gain access to U.S. state and federal networks, including those responsible for managing elections. However, the diversity of election systems among the states, multiple checks and redundancies in those systems, and post-election auditing all make it extraordinarily difficult for foreign adversaries to broadly disrupt or change vote tallies without detection...

Russia’s persistent objective is to weaken the United States and diminish our global role. Using a range of efforts, including internet trolls and other proxies, Russia continues to spread disinformation in the U.S. that is designed to undermine confidence in our democratic process and denigrate what it sees as an anti-Russia “establishment” in America.

Oh dear. It really is a conspiracy against the Democrats.

This seems like a weird deflection - the DNI is outlining these concerns and clearly identifies Russia as the most aggressive in terms of concrete actions, since they don’t even try and identify concrete actions by Iran/China.

We also know Russia tried to hack election infrastructure in 2016, so history tells us if that general concern exists in 2020, it likely is associated with Russia again.

This really doesn’t matter who is favored by which country, but rather which country is most likely to take concrete, overt steps to interfere.

(08-08-2020 12:52 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:46 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  OMG! All you have is denigrating Biden? By publicizing his record. Oh, how devious. Makes underwing Hillary by publishing he yoga schedules positively amateurish. Whoop-ti-do.

Another nothingburger amplified by the DNC to prey on fears that the DNC is amplifying to, ahem, denigrate Trump.

Do you read any of this critically, or just swallow it?

Do you know where the quote I just posted came from?

Here is the previous assessments take on Russia:

Quote: Today, we see our adversaries seeking to compromise the private communications of U.S. political campaigns, candidates and other political targets. Our adversaries also seek to compromise our election infrastructure, and we continue to monitor malicious cyber actors trying to gain access to U.S. state and federal networks, including those responsible for managing elections. However, the diversity of election systems among the states, multiple checks and redundancies in those systems, and post-election auditing all make it extraordinarily difficult for foreign adversaries to broadly disrupt or change vote tallies without detection...

Russia’s persistent objective is to weaken the United States and diminish our global role. Using a range of efforts, including internet trolls and other proxies, Russia continues to spread disinformation in the U.S. that is designed to undermine confidence in our democratic process and denigrate what it sees as an anti-Russia “establishment” in America.

Oh dear. It really is a conspiracy against the Democrats.

This seems like a weird deflection - the DNI is outlining these concerns and clearly identifies Russia as the most aggressive in terms of concrete actions, since they don’t even try and identify concrete actions by Iran/China.

We also know Russia tried to hack election infrastructure in 2016, so history tells us if that general concern exists in 2020, it likely is associated with Russia again.

This really doesn’t matter who is favored by which country, but rather which country is most likely to take concrete, overt steps to interfere.

The attempts to influence 2016 were ineffectual, and I expect 2020 to be no different. All we hear from the Dems is Russia, Russia, Russia. The 1980’s want their enemies back.

(08-08-2020 01:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:52 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:46 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-08-2020 12:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  OMG! All you have is denigrating Biden? By publicizing his record. Oh, how devious. Makes underwing Hillary by publishing he yoga schedules positively amateurish. Whoop-ti-do.

Another nothingburger amplified by the DNC to prey on fears that the DNC is amplifying to, ahem, denigrate Trump.

Do you read any of this critically, or just swallow it?

Do you know where the quote I just posted came from?

Here is the previous assessments take on Russia:

Quote: Today, we see our adversaries seeking to compromise the private communications of U.S. political campaigns, candidates and other political targets. Our adversaries also seek to compromise our election infrastructure, and we continue to monitor malicious cyber actors trying to gain access to U.S. state and federal networks, including those responsible for managing elections. However, the diversity of election systems among the states, multiple checks and redundancies in those systems, and post-election auditing all make it extraordinarily difficult for foreign adversaries to broadly disrupt or change vote tallies without detection...

Russia’s persistent objective is to weaken the United States and diminish our global role. Using a range of efforts, including internet trolls and other proxies, Russia continues to spread disinformation in the U.S. that is designed to undermine confidence in our democratic process and denigrate what it sees as an anti-Russia “establishment” in America.

Oh dear. It really is a conspiracy against the Democrats.

This seems like a weird deflection - the DNI is outlining these concerns and clearly identifies Russia as the most aggressive in terms of concrete actions, since they don’t even try and identify concrete actions by Iran/China.

We also know Russia tried to hack election infrastructure in 2016, so history tells us if that general concern exists in 2020, it likely is associated with Russia again.

This really doesn’t matter who is favored by which country, but rather which country is most likely to take concrete, overt steps to interfere.

The attempts to influence 2016 were ineffectual, and I expect 2020 to be no different. All we hear from the Dems is Russia, Russia, Russia. The 1980’s want their enemies back.

You know the DNI is not the DNC, right?

They are pointing to three countries that may try to influence the upcoming elections, and it’s clear that Russia is likely to be the most overtly acting country.