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temchugh Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
A nice win over UTSA (non-conference game) yesterday in miserable, cold, rainy weather. Our goalie, Bella Killgore, is taking the free kicks this year. Yesterday, she scored our lone goal on a free kick from a little bit closer than mid field.
02-12-2021 08:35 AM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-12-2021 08:35 AM)temchugh Wrote:  A nice win over UTSA (non-conference game) yesterday in miserable, cold, rainy weather. Our goalie, Bella Killgore, is taking the free kicks this year. Yesterday, she scored our lone goal on a free kick from a little bit closer than mid field.

That had to have been a pretty incredible goal. Is there any video of it?
02-12-2021 02:02 PM
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temchugh Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-12-2021 02:02 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 08:35 AM)temchugh Wrote:  A nice win over UTSA (non-conference game) yesterday in miserable, cold, rainy weather. Our goalie, Bella Killgore, is taking the free kicks this year. Yesterday, she scored our lone goal on a free kick from a little bit closer than mid field.

That had to have been a pretty incredible goal. Is there any video of it?

A good video clip was posted to the Rice Soccer twitter account:

https://twitter.com/RiceSoccer

(Just scroll down a little bit)
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2021 02:06 PM by temchugh.)
02-12-2021 02:06 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-12-2021 02:06 PM)temchugh Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 02:02 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 08:35 AM)temchugh Wrote:  A nice win over UTSA (non-conference game) yesterday in miserable, cold, rainy weather. Our goalie, Bella Killgore, is taking the free kicks this year. Yesterday, she scored our lone goal on a free kick from a little bit closer than mid field.

That had to have been a pretty incredible goal. Is there any video of it?

A good video clip was posted to the Rice Soccer twitter account:

https://twitter.com/RiceSoccer

(Just scroll down a little bit)

Thanks! Fabulous!! Here's the video link: https://twitter.com/i/status/1360002455069671427

(Should it have been an "own goal" because a UTSA defender headed it into the net? What are the rules regarding such goal-scoring attribution?)
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2021 02:19 PM by Almadenmike.)
02-12-2021 02:16 PM
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gsloth Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
In looking things up, it appears that an own goal on a free kick is actually not suposed to be a goal, but instead is supposed to be a corner kick. Doesn't matter if it is a direct or indirect free kick. That's according to the Laws of the Game (FIFA rules).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_kick_..._football)

Not sure how, if at all, these rules are different in college soccer. I cannot find reference to that. But I cannot believe they would be that different.
02-13-2021 06:17 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-13-2021 06:17 PM)gsloth Wrote:  In looking things up, it appears that an own goal on a free kick is actually not suposed to be a goal, but instead is supposed to be a corner kick. Doesn't matter if it is a direct or indirect free kick. That's according to the Laws of the Game (FIFA rules).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_kick_..._football)

Not sure how, if at all, these rules are different in college soccer. I cannot find reference to that. But I cannot believe they would be that different.

According to the NCAA rule book (which you can download online for free), it's a goal. Here are the pertinent rules....

13.1.3 Indirect free kick. An indirect free kick is one from which a goal cannot
be scored unless the ball has been touched by a player other than the kicker
before going into the goal.

A.R. 13.1.3.a. A player takes a free kick from 20 yards. The player passes the ball
back to his or her goalkeeper who does not touch it, and the ball goes into the goal.
RULING: Corner kick.

A.R. 13.1.3.b. A player taking a free kick inside his or her penalty area inadvertently
kicks the ball into his or her goal. RULING: Because the ball was in play, a corner
kick shall be awarded.

A.R. 13.1.3.c. The ball from an indirect free kick touches an opponent and enters
the net. RULING: Goal.
02-13-2021 06:30 PM
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gsloth Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-13-2021 06:30 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 06:17 PM)gsloth Wrote:  In looking things up, it appears that an own goal on a free kick is actually not suposed to be a goal, but instead is supposed to be a corner kick. Doesn't matter if it is a direct or indirect free kick. That's according to the Laws of the Game (FIFA rules).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_kick_..._football)

Not sure how, if at all, these rules are different in college soccer. I cannot find reference to that. But I cannot believe they would be that different.

According to the NCAA rule book (which you can download online for free), it's a goal. Here are the pertinent rules....

13.1.3 Indirect free kick. An indirect free kick is one from which a goal cannot
be scored unless the ball has been touched by a player other than the kicker
before going into the goal.

A.R. 13.1.3.a. A player takes a free kick from 20 yards. The player passes the ball
back to his or her goalkeeper who does not touch it, and the ball goes into the goal.
RULING: Corner kick.

A.R. 13.1.3.b. A player taking a free kick inside his or her penalty area inadvertently
kicks the ball into his or her goal. RULING: Because the ball was in play, a corner
kick shall be awarded.

A.R. 13.1.3.c. The ball from an indirect free kick touches an opponent and enters
the net. RULING: Goal.

Thanks for finding that. My search criteria did not pull up the rulebook, for some reason. I've found football and basketball rules before, but this didn't show up when I looked for it.

And the more I'm thinking about it, I think I'm misinterpreting own goal in this description. I think they're using Own Goal in the terms of the goal/net, and not the scoring ruling of an own goal. And in the scheme of everything, I think that makes sense. In this case, even in the case of an indirect kick, it touched a player before going in the goal, so it should count.
02-13-2021 07:51 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-13-2021 07:51 PM)gsloth Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 06:30 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  According to the NCAA rule book (which you can download online for free), it's a goal. Here are the pertinent rules....

13.1.3 Indirect free kick. An indirect free kick is one from which a goal cannot
be scored unless the ball has been touched by a player other than the kicker
before going into the goal.

A.R. 13.1.3.a. A player takes a free kick from 20 yards. The player passes the ball
back to his or her goalkeeper who does not touch it, and the ball goes into the goal.
RULING: Corner kick.

A.R. 13.1.3.b. A player taking a free kick inside his or her penalty area inadvertently
kicks the ball into his or her goal. RULING: Because the ball was in play, a corner
kick shall be awarded.

A.R. 13.1.3.c. The ball from an indirect free kick touches an opponent and enters
the net. RULING: Goal.

Thanks for finding that. My search criteria did not pull up the rulebook, for some reason. I've found football and basketball rules before, but this didn't show up when I looked for it.

And the more I'm thinking about it, I think I'm misinterpreting own goal in this description. I think they're using Own Goal in the terms of the goal/net, and not the scoring ruling of an own goal. And in the scheme of everything, I think that makes sense. In this case, even in the case of an indirect kick, it touched a player before going in the goal, so it should count.

My original question (clearly not stated in sufficient detail; mea culpa) was not whether the goal counted for the game's score, but rather whether it should be credited to the kicker (in this case, Rice's goalie, who made the free kick) or as an "own goal" (since it was headed -- a glancing blow -- by a defender, which redirected it toward the corner of the net).
02-13-2021 08:21 PM
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gsloth Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-13-2021 08:21 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 07:51 PM)gsloth Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 06:30 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  According to the NCAA rule book (which you can download online for free), it's a goal. Here are the pertinent rules....

13.1.3 Indirect free kick. An indirect free kick is one from which a goal cannot
be scored unless the ball has been touched by a player other than the kicker
before going into the goal.

A.R. 13.1.3.a. A player takes a free kick from 20 yards. The player passes the ball
back to his or her goalkeeper who does not touch it, and the ball goes into the goal.
RULING: Corner kick.

A.R. 13.1.3.b. A player taking a free kick inside his or her penalty area inadvertently
kicks the ball into his or her goal. RULING: Because the ball was in play, a corner
kick shall be awarded.

A.R. 13.1.3.c. The ball from an indirect free kick touches an opponent and enters
the net. RULING: Goal.

Thanks for finding that. My search criteria did not pull up the rulebook, for some reason. I've found football and basketball rules before, but this didn't show up when I looked for it.

And the more I'm thinking about it, I think I'm misinterpreting own goal in this description. I think they're using Own Goal in the terms of the goal/net, and not the scoring ruling of an own goal. And in the scheme of everything, I think that makes sense. In this case, even in the case of an indirect kick, it touched a player before going in the goal, so it should count.

My original question (clearly not stated in sufficient detail; mea culpa) was not whether the goal counted for the game's score, but rather whether it should be credited to the kicker (in this case, Rice's goalie, who made the free kick) or as an "own goal" (since it was headed -- a glancing blow -- by a defender, which redirected it toward the corner of the net).

And I started down that road, and ran across an interpretation that suggested something that wasn't right.

What I determined on that is that there is no standard. It's often at the discretion of the recordkeeper for the match (or maybe the referee? I saw a couple reference to that, but didn't quite understand the context) to say own goal or give it to the goal scorer. I saw a few examples where a post-game challenge changed it to give credit to the offensive player, though that isn't always changed.

So I say she gets the credit, although that certainly looked like an own goal, as the defender seemed to be trying to head it out of bounds, past the goal.
02-13-2021 10:47 PM
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temchugh Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
I believe that the kick was a direct (not an indirect) free kick. In other words, there was no requirement that the ball touch another player before going into the goal.
02-14-2021 08:18 AM
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Jonathan Yardley Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(02-12-2021 02:16 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 02:06 PM)temchugh Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 02:02 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 08:35 AM)temchugh Wrote:  A nice win over UTSA (non-conference game) yesterday in miserable, cold, rainy weather. Our goalie, Bella Killgore, is taking the free kicks this year. Yesterday, she scored our lone goal on a free kick from a little bit closer than mid field.

That had to have been a pretty incredible goal. Is there any video of it?

A good video clip was posted to the Rice Soccer twitter account:

https://twitter.com/RiceSoccer

(Just scroll down a little bit)

Thanks! Fabulous!! Here's the video link: https://twitter.com/i/status/1360002455069671427

(Should it have been an "own goal" because a UTSA defender headed it into the net? What are the rules regarding such goal-scoring attribution?)

Should 100% have been an own goal. NCAA standards can be quite a bit different from professional, especially because it's usually up to the home team scorer, so there's quite a bit of leeway for crediting the attacking player rather than punishing the defender. NCAA assist totals, in particular, are highly suspect.

Even at the professional level, there has been a move recently to really factor intent, so that even a shot going wide and deflected in can be credited to the shooter. In this case, however, she was not shooting, the ball went on a completely new angle after the touch, and iwould not have gone in without the defender's involvement. So I would not hesitate in saying it's an own goal.

That said, the industry standard in college soccer is probably to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking player, so I don't fault anybody or expect it to be changed. Everybody loves a goalkeeper goal!
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 11:24 AM by Jonathan Yardley.)
02-14-2021 11:19 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
It seems to me that what would be appropriate is to charge the defender with an own goal, while giving credit for a goal to the shooter. I don't see why it has to be either/or. On virtually any own goal, the shooter at the very least had to put the ball in a position of extreme danger for the defense.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 02:05 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-14-2021 02:04 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
Rice beats Texas Southern, 8-0.
02-21-2021 05:13 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
Rice improves to 4-0 with a 3-2 win at UTSA.

Game vs UH on Wednesday has been PPD due to COVID issues at UH.
02-28-2021 04:56 PM
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gsloth Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
Reading the recap on RiceOwls, sounds like the goalie got another goal on a long free kick from near the center circle.
03-01-2021 08:57 AM
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Jonathan Yardley Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(03-01-2021 08:57 AM)gsloth Wrote:  Reading the recap on RiceOwls, sounds like the goalie got another goal on a long free kick from near the center circle.

Rice posted the video this afternoon. It's closer than I expected, enough for her to be shooting, as opposed to last time. While this is a goalkeeping mistake on UTSA's part, it would definitely be credited as a goal anywhere in the world. Here's to a couple more this year!

https://twitter.com/RiceSoccer/status/13...8129969155
03-01-2021 04:15 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
I realize that she is a weapon as a free kicker. But that does seem a bit far upfield for a keeper to be taking a free kick that late in a 2-2 match. Of course the video frame does not show whether any defenders were dropped back to protect in case of a save and a swift return kick.

I would presume that, if we have a situation where a drawn match lead to PKs (possibly in post-season knockout rounds), she would take one of the kicks.
03-01-2021 04:31 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(03-01-2021 04:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I realize that she is a weapon as a free kicker. But that does seem a bit far upfield for a keeper to be taking a free kick that late in a 2-2 match. Of course the video frame does not show whether any defenders were dropped back to protect in case of a save and a swift return kick.

The video (https://twitter.com/RiceSoccer/status/13...8129969155) shows 7 Owls in front of our goalie goal-kicker and one just behind her. Since 11 players should be on the field, I presume that there would have been two others out of frame closer to the Owl's net.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2021 01:42 PM by Almadenmike.)
03-02-2021 01:41 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
(03-02-2021 01:41 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 04:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I realize that she is a weapon as a free kicker. But that does seem a bit far upfield for a keeper to be taking a free kick that late in a 2-2 match. Of course the video frame does not show whether any defenders were dropped back to protect in case of a save and a swift return kick.
The video (https://twitter.com/RiceSoccer/status/13...8129969155) shows 7 Owls in front of our goalie goal-kicker and one just behind her. Since 11 players should be on the field, I presume that there would have been two others out of frame closer to the Owl's net.

That was my impression as well, and was hoping for some clarification.
03-02-2021 09:57 PM
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Texasowl Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Rice Soccer 2020 Schedule
Rice has lost two straight and playing Texas A&M soon. Just how good is this team ? Seems like we are regressing from last year
03-15-2021 08:06 PM
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