To me, it would have been wise for the Great Midwest and Metro to just create a scheduling alliance and have 2 autobids among the 14 schools.

To create a conference that sponsored football.

Higher impact marketing under the CUSA banner.

The merger was an afterthought. They formed the football conference first. Tulane, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Southern Miss. Then they added the basketball schools.

(07-01-2020 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  The merger was an afterthought. They formed the football conference first. Tulane, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Southern Miss. Then they added the basketball schools.

The goal was to take the best of both and create a better basketball conference they hoped could rival the Big East. They also wanted the new conference to offer a place for the schools to park their FBS teams since the Metro didnt offer football. Pretty sure that basketball actually started first, beginning play in 1995. Football didnt begin until 1996 when Houston arrived. While Houston was a founding member, it was committed to the SWC until the end of the 1995-1996 season, so the conference only had 5 football playing members in 1995, which was one short of the 6 they needed for an FBS conference. They had several non-football members in addition to the 5 football playing schools---so the olympic sports side of CUSA was able to crank up in 1995.

Why did Cincy and Memphis leave the Metro in the first place only to basically rejoin it under a new name of Conference USA

If they never left the Metro could have just sponsored football as soon as Houston was free from the SWC

But a merger wasn’t necessary to start playing football against each other. The Metro could have easily just made Houston their 8th member and then allowed Memphis and Cincinnati to play football as affiliates while maintaining a scheduling alliance with the Great Midwest in basketball.

With 7 members apiece they could easily play double round robin against their conference and then single round robin against the other conference for a total of 19 games.

I think the real reason was that Louisville had learned their lesson after trying to lord over the Metro. Cincinnati and Memphis got tired of their crap and went and built a better conference without the Cardinals. Louisville was stuck eating crow but too cheap to leave behind their credits and pay the exit fee.

(07-01-2020 10:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  But a merger wasn’t necessary to start playing football against each other. The Metro could have easily just made Houston their 8th member and then allowed Memphis and Cincinnati to play football as affiliates while maintaining a scheduling alliance with the Great Midwest in basketball.

With 7 members apiece they could easily play double round robin against their conference and then single round robin against the other conference for a total of 19 games.

I think the real reason was that Louisville had learned their lesson after trying to lord over the Metro. Cincinnati and Memphis got tired of their crap and went and built a better conference without the Cardinals. Louisville was stuck eating crow but too cheap to leave behind their credits and pay the exit fee.

lol...Thats funny, because they didnt really learn their lesson. They refused to go along to get along when the rest of the league wanted to add Army and ECU. The divisions between the league and Louisville got so bad at that point that the rest of the league held a meeting without the Cardinals present and kicked Louisville out. I think this was Tom Jurich's first week on the job---in fact, it may have even been his first day on the job. At any rate, Louisville threatened to sue and it all ended up getting smoothed over. Louisville didnt get booted and they agreed to go along with the ECU and Army additions. lol...I guess Jurich was better at working with the other schools than his predecessor had been.

(07-01-2020 11:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 10:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  But a merger wasn’t necessary to start playing football against each other. The Metro could have easily just made Houston their 8th member and then allowed Memphis and Cincinnati to play football as affiliates while maintaining a scheduling alliance with the Great Midwest in basketball.

With 7 members apiece they could easily play double round robin against their conference and then single round robin against the other conference for a total of 19 games.

I think the real reason was that Louisville had learned their lesson after trying to lord over the Metro. Cincinnati and Memphis got tired of their crap and went and built a better conference without the Cardinals. Louisville was stuck eating crow but too cheap to leave behind their credits and pay the exit fee.

lol...Thats funny, because they didnt really learn their lesson. They refused to go along to get along when the rest of the league wanted to add Army and ECU. The divisions between the league and Louisville got so bad at that point that the rest of the league held a meeting without the Cardinals present and kicked Louisville out. I think this was Tom Jurich's first week on the job---in fact, it may have even been his first day on the job. At any rate, Louisville threatened to sue and it all ended up getting smoothed over. Louisville didnt get booted and they agreed to go along with the ECU and Army additions. lol...I guess Jurich was better at working with the other schools than his predecessor had been.

Wasn't a lot of that Denny Crum machinations? God knows the Metro coaches grumbled about him. I wonder if they would have gone through with booting UL over Army and ECU? Were they really that much of a pain in the ass or was it meant as a wake-up call?

I remember being a VCU student and school paper reporter and wondering what the hell UNCC and South Florida had that VCU didn't. It eventually worked out, though going from Louisville and relevant Tulane to American and William & Mary was a real shot to the nether regions.

(07-01-2020 08:58 PM)esayem Wrote:  To create a conference that sponsored football.

The need to find a home for their Division I-A football independents may foster a merger between the Metro and Great Midwest conferences.


Metro, Great Midwest conferences plan merger - Associated Press CHARLOTTE, N C. - A merger of the Metro and Great Midwest conferences may occur by next week, perhaps creating a 16-team, all-sport super conference, says former NCAA executive director Dick Schultz. Merger talks have been spurred by a lucrative television contract negotiated with Liberty Sports, a Texas-based company that televises games through the Prime Network. Prime distributes college sporting events nationwide. “It makes sense to merge the two conferences,’’ Schultz, who has been working as a Metro consultant and negotiated the contract, told The Charlotte Observer on Wednesday. “I think folks are looking a lot harder at doing just that. They should make a decision by early next week.” Schultz said a decision must be made quickly because Liberty’s contract offer expires next week. The contract is for a larger all-sports Metro Conference, but could be readjusted if the merger is done, said Liberty group vice president Dave Almstead. “There’s a lot of variations on how many teams who would join, but basically this contract proposal is a multiyear proposal for an all-sports Metro that is in an enhanced fashion," Almstead said. “If they do merge ... we would try to sit down and make it work.’’ Details are still being sorted out. Still unclear is how many teams in the league would play Division I-A football, and which school would be the 16th member. The Metro and Great Midwest have seven members each. They would joined by East Carolina and possibly Houston. The Metro’s members are North Carolina Charlotte, Louisville, South Florida, Southern Mississippi, Tulane, Virginia Commonwealth and Virginia Tech. The Great Midwest consists of Alabama-Birmingham, Cincinnati, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Memphis State and St. Louis.

I followed the Metro and Great Midwest closely back in the day, but my memory is weak now. I seem to recall Cincinnati and Memphis wanted to align with DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, UAB and Dayton so as to boost their basketball fortunes.

C-USA (and the original Metro, for that matter) was a much better conference than some folks realize. The basketball was rather strong.

I miss the days that Memphis, Cincy, DePaul, Marquette and Louisville were aligned.

(07-02-2020 01:56 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 11:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 10:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  But a merger wasn’t necessary to start playing football against each other. The Metro could have easily just made Houston their 8th member and then allowed Memphis and Cincinnati to play football as affiliates while maintaining a scheduling alliance with the Great Midwest in basketball.

With 7 members apiece they could easily play double round robin against their conference and then single round robin against the other conference for a total of 19 games.

I think the real reason was that Louisville had learned their lesson after trying to lord over the Metro. Cincinnati and Memphis got tired of their crap and went and built a better conference without the Cardinals. Louisville was stuck eating crow but too cheap to leave behind their credits and pay the exit fee.

lol...Thats funny, because they didnt really learn their lesson. They refused to go along to get along when the rest of the league wanted to add Army and ECU. The divisions between the league and Louisville got so bad at that point that the rest of the league held a meeting without the Cardinals present and kicked Louisville out. I think this was Tom Jurich's first week on the job---in fact, it may have even been his first day on the job. At any rate, Louisville threatened to sue and it all ended up getting smoothed over. Louisville didnt get booted and they agreed to go along with the ECU and Army additions. lol...I guess Jurich was better at working with the other schools than his predecessor had been.

Wasn't a lot of that Denny Crum machinations? God knows the Metro coaches grumbled about him. I wonder if they would have gone through with booting UL over Army and ECU? Were they really that much of a pain in the ass or was it meant as a wake-up call?

I remember being a VCU student and school paper reporter and wondering what the hell UNCC and South Florida had that VCU didn't. It eventually worked out, though going from Louisville and relevant Tulane to American and William & Mary was a real shot to the nether regions.

I'll be honest, UL is not a team I really support because of how much of a pain they were during the CUSA formation and trying to stiff Army and ECU. And when Memphis and ECU couldn't get a sniff from the Big East, it wasn't very hard to guess who might have been standing in their way. Mad respect for the basketball program (factory) they have and the fans, but just never a personal fan of it. But, that's politics and higher ed.

As an A10 fan first, I'd say we came out ahead with what happened with CUSA eventually, even if some had to make other stops along the way before getting here. And it was able to shed a program that never lived up to its potential in UNCC.

Can anybody really say Louisville was wrong to oppose Army? Looking back on the results, I think they knew it was not a good idea at the time.

SMU should have been admitted with TCU, like originally planned.

(07-02-2020 08:26 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I followed the Metro and Great Midwest closely back in the day, but my memory is weak now. I seem to recall Cincinnati and Memphis wanted to align with DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, UAB and Dayton so as to boost their basketball fortunes.

ESPN I'm sure had a significant role in saying what was the perfect marriage was with where those programs were at the time.

Then CUSA made the decision to become a southern focused FB conference taking in attractive pieces from the MAC/WAC. I guess that was ESPN's next advice focus on FB.

(07-02-2020 07:39 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:58 PM)esayem Wrote:  To create a conference that sponsored football.

The need to find a home for their Division I-A football independents may foster a merger between the Metro and Great Midwest conferences.


Metro, Great Midwest conferences plan merger - Associated Press CHARLOTTE, N C. - A merger of the Metro and Great Midwest conferences may occur by next week, perhaps creating a 16-team, all-sport super conference, says former NCAA executive director Dick Schultz. Merger talks have been spurred by a lucrative television contract negotiated with Liberty Sports, a Texas-based company that televises games through the Prime Network. Prime distributes college sporting events nationwide. “It makes sense to merge the two conferences,’’ Schultz, who has been working as a Metro consultant and negotiated the contract, told The Charlotte Observer on Wednesday. “I think folks are looking a lot harder at doing just that. They should make a decision by early next week.” Schultz said a decision must be made quickly because Liberty’s contract offer expires next week. The contract is for a larger all-sports Metro Conference, but could be readjusted if the merger is done, said Liberty group vice president Dave Almstead. “There’s a lot of variations on how many teams who would join, but basically this contract proposal is a multiyear proposal for an all-sports Metro that is in an enhanced fashion," Almstead said. “If they do merge ... we would try to sit down and make it work.’’ Details are still being sorted out. Still unclear is how many teams in the league would play Division I-A football, and which school would be the 16th member. The Metro and Great Midwest have seven members each. They would joined by East Carolina and possibly Houston. The Metro’s members are North Carolina Charlotte, Louisville, South Florida, Southern Mississippi, Tulane, Virginia Commonwealth and Virginia Tech. The Great Midwest consists of Alabama-Birmingham, Cincinnati, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Memphis State and St. Louis.

In practice a merger is basically what happened except they cut VCU and Dayton out of it. VA Tech was wanted but they had that Big East football affiliation they wisely were not giving up.

It crazy that they had to do all of these machinations to get the end result of CUSA, which was basically the Metro playing football. If Louisville wasn't so difficult to work with then Cincy and Memphis never would have had to leave and create the Great Midwest.

What should have happened in 1991 after Florida State and South Carolina left was for the Metro Core (Louisville, Memphis, Cincinnati, USM, and Tulane) to invite the schools that were targeted by the Great Midwest to strengthen basketball (UAB, St. Louis, DePaul, Marquette, and Dayton). Virginia Tech was still there too and could have been asked to leave/voted out like they were on real life since they didnt want to bring football over. The goal should have been to start a football conference when UAB was ready to be a D1A program giving them a 6-4 split. Then Houston could have been #11 and ECU or TCU number #12 to make an 8-4 split when the 8 all sports members became a requirement.

(07-02-2020 09:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  Can anybody really say Louisville was wrong to oppose Army? Looking back on the results, I think they knew it was not a good idea at the time.

SMU should have been admitted with TCU, like originally planned.

The lore goes it wasn't Army they were truly against, but expansion with ECU, and that Army got stuck in the middle. And UL would have to recognize that in their eventual home, the Big East, that Navy and Army were chasers for the conference, because they were schools that the old guard had wanted and worked with in the past.

From the lens of Memphis and ECU fans, UL played politics as well as anyone could. You could resist ECU in either CUSA or the Big East because they were and are so god awful in basketball in a state where it flourishes, and then use the academics to keep their football down as well. When you get to the Big East, you could kick Memphis down with their inconsistent and sometimes lousy football, and, again, use academics to withstand their basketball. Only in CUSA did UL not have the pull. It got much easier to find willing ears when they moved on and up to the Big East.

(07-01-2020 09:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  The merger was an afterthought. They formed the football conference first. Tulane, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Southern Miss. Then they added the basketball schools.

The goal was to take the best of both and create a better basketball conference they hoped could rival the Big East. They also wanted the new conference to offer a place for the schools to park their FBS teams since the Metro didnt offer football. Pretty sure that basketball actually started first, beginning play in 1995. Football didnt begin until 1996 when Houston arrived. While Houston was a founding member, it was committed to the SWC until the end of the 1995-1996 season, so the conference only had 5 football playing members in 1995, which was one short of the 6 they needed for an FBS conference. They had several non-football members in addition to the 5 football playing schools---so the olympic sports side of CUSA was able to crank up in 1995.

Basketball "play" started first since Houston was still in the SWC until 1996. But football was organized first in 1994. As they moved further along in the planning, they added the basketball schools to the plan.

In the end, it can be summarized in one word: "GREED".

What was Louisville’s beef with ECU football? It’s not like they were horrible in the early 90s.

(07-02-2020 12:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  The merger was an afterthought. They formed the football conference first. Tulane, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Southern Miss. Then they added the basketball schools.

The goal was to take the best of both and create a better basketball conference they hoped could rival the Big East. They also wanted the new conference to offer a place for the schools to park their FBS teams since the Metro didnt offer football. Pretty sure that basketball actually started first, beginning play in 1995. Football didnt begin until 1996 when Houston arrived. While Houston was a founding member, it was committed to the SWC until the end of the 1995-1996 season, so the conference only had 5 football playing members in 1995, which was one short of the 6 they needed for an FBS conference. They had several non-football members in addition to the 5 football playing schools---so the olympic sports side of CUSA was able to crank up in 1995.

Basketball "play" started first since Houston was still in the SWC until 1996. But football was organized first in 1994. As they moved further along in the planning, they added the basketball schools to the plan.

Non-football schools were part of the original plan. The way I understand it, the merger plan actually began in 1992---well before anyone knew the SWC collapse was imminent. Houston wasnt even part of the plan---they basically just fell in their laps when the SWC went down in early 1994.