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OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
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pesik Offline
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Post: #1
OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
https://sports.yahoo.com/should-teams-ac...49908.html

many players have been discussing catching covid now, isolating themselves and trying to reduce the risk of missing games in the season.. noting that almost no athlete to date have received major symptoms that require hospitalization, most have been asymptomatic

there is a belief that teams with high breakout numbers now will actually have an advantage in fall ..

multiple experts discuss this in the article...
all say Unequivocally not to do it for different reason...
- that its immoral and perverse to even consider (purposefully infecting teenagers)
- little is known of the immunity/antibodies of corona - how long it last or if it even prevents re-infection..they assume it does but that is solely based off research of other coronavirus not this one
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 01:28 PM by pesik.)
07-01-2020 11:16 AM
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smu89 Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 11:16 AM)pesik Wrote:  https://sports.yahoo.com/should-teams-ac...49908.html

many players have discussing catching covid now, isolating themselves and trying to reduce the risk of missing games in the season.. noting that almost no athlete to date have received major symptoms that require hospitalization, most have been asymptomatic

there is a belief that teams with high breakout numbers now will actually have an advantage in fall ..

multiple experts discuss this in the article...
all say Unequivocally not to do it for different reason...
- that its immoral and perverse to even consider (purposefully infecting teenagers)
- little is known of the immunity/antibodies of corona - how long it last or if it even prevents re-infection..they assume it does but that is solely based off research of other coronavirus not this one

The Clemson Plan
07-01-2020 11:28 AM
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ArmoredUpKnight Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
Let’s see the coaches and ADs do it first, lead by example.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 12:04 PM by ArmoredUpKnight.)
07-01-2020 12:01 PM
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invisiblehand Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
They're young adults and they feel impervious. After the first one or two dies due to complications you'll see them freak out.
07-01-2020 12:35 PM
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StillJonesing Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 12:35 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  They're young adults and they feel impervious. After the first one or two dies due to complications you'll see them freak out.

I've read studies that even 50% of asymptomatic people have lung damage and scaring. Some young people develop chronic fatigue syndrome that can affect the rest of their life, others have clots and damage their heart, or need amputations. A couple of examples of that and you might see a change in mentality but probably not. Football players play a sport that gives them brain damage so they are probably dumb enough to think that way but the reality is it could impact a football career if you don't have lung damage.

Rudy Gobert I read had damage in the blood vessels or nerves in his feet and no sense of smell still I was reading. There are potential cost even if the risk is low of dying to their age group that could cost them careers or possibly affect the quality of life the rest of their life. I don't think I'd be playing around with trying to catch when they estimate immunity is only around 4 months for people that don't get really sick. It's not worth it especially with little known about the longterm effects.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 01:29 PM by StillJonesing.)
07-01-2020 01:27 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 12:01 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Let’s see the coaches and ADs do it first, lead by example.

Zero chance the universities would publicly support this in any way. Some Clemson running back will get blood clots and have to get a leg cut off, and an email will surface from the coaching staff putting together a little chicken pox party for the team. Bankrupt program overnight.

I'm ok with this happening to Clemson, but not any of us.
07-01-2020 03:02 PM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 01:27 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 12:35 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  They're young adults and they feel impervious. After the first one or two dies due to complications you'll see them freak out.

I've read studies that even 50% of asymptomatic people have lung damage and scaring. Some young people develop chronic fatigue syndrome that can affect the rest of their life, others have clots and damage their heart, or need amputations. A couple of examples of that and you might see a change in mentality but probably not. Football players play a sport that gives them brain damage so they are probably dumb enough to think that way but the reality is it could impact a football career if you don't have lung damage.

Rudy Gobert I read had damage in the blood vessels or nerves in his feet and no sense of smell still I was reading. There are potential cost even if the risk is low of dying to their age group that could cost them careers or possibly affect the quality of life the rest of their life. I don't think I'd be playing around with trying to catch when they estimate immunity is only around 4 months for people that don't get really sick. It's not worth it especially with little known about the longterm effects.

I'm calling BS on this.

If asymptomatic people were requiring amputations and your other list of various and sundry maladies, I'm pretty sure the first I heard of it wouldn't come from the AAC board.

And I searched the Rudy Gobert thing.

1. The most recent thing I could find was from April.
2. He's been cleared to play in the NBA... alleged nerve damage and all.
3. His lost sense of smell and taste were just temporary symptoms from when he first got it.

So I can see you're one of those people who like to hear about all bad things. Doesn't make it so.
07-01-2020 05:07 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
from the NY Times:

"These Athletes Had the Coronavirus. Will They Ever Be the Same?

Von Miller of the Denver Broncos called the disease a “surreal” experience and said he struggled at first to work out. Other athletes have endured lingering lung and other health issues.


By Andrew Keh

May 29, 2020

It was the end of March, and Josh Fiske, a urologist from Livingston, N.J., was in the hospital fighting an uphill battle against the coronavirus. Just a week earlier, he had easily jogged a five-mile route around his neighborhood. But his body was failing him now.

His oxygen levels dipped dangerously low, and his fever rocketed to a worrying 104 degrees. Shifting his body in bed exhausted him. Walking a few steps felt like “hiking in thin air.” Opening a bottle of iced tea was “a huge task.”

Fiske kept fighting, though, and eventually, with the help of his doctors, he turned a corner. Yet even as he did, even as he seemed assured of avoiding the worst outcomes of the virus, a different sort of anxiety consumed him.

“I started to think, ‘Am I going to be able to run again? Am I going to be able to walk the golf course?’” said Fiske, 46, who does a marathon or half-marathon every year. “These are things I love to do.”

The coronavirus has infected millions of people around the world. Athletes tend to view themselves as perhaps better equipped than the general population to avoid the worst consequences of the disease the virus causes, Covid-19.

Yet interviews with athletes who have contracted the virus — from professionals to college athletes to weekend hobbyists — revealed their surprise at the potency of its symptoms, struggles to reestablish workout regimens, lingering battles with lung issues and muscle weakness, and unsettling bouts of anxiety about whether they would be able to match their physical peaks.

And with sports leagues around the world scrambling to restart play, more athletes could soon be taking on a significant amount of risk.

“It definitely shook me up a bit — it was very surreal, you know?” Von Miller, a linebacker for the Denver Broncos who contracted the virus, said in an interview. “My biggest takeaway from this experience is that no matter how great of shape you are in physically, no matter what your age is, that you’re not immune from things like this.”

Miller, who has had asthma his whole life, said he was left shaken up by shortness of breath and coughing when he tried to sleep. He said he felt himself “fatiguing faster” when he first tried working out again in his home gym, but that now he was training “full-on” again.

Denver Broncos linebacker Von Miller, left, called his experience with the virus “surreal” and says he struggled at first to work out again.


Experts warn that the virus does not discriminate.

That was the lesson Andrew Boselli, an offensive lineman at Florida State, learned as members of his family — including his father, Tony, 47, a former N.F.L. lineman — began showing symptoms in March.
Latest Updates: Global Coronavirus Outbreak Updated 13m ago

As the U.S. reports record numbers of new cases, states and localities halt reopenings.
California closes indoor operations for restaurants for more than 70 percent of the state’s population.
As cases surge, Trump says he believes the virus is ‘going to sort of just disappear.’


“I knew I was young and healthy,” said Boselli, 22, who moved home to Jacksonville, Fla., after the university closed its doors. “I play Division 1 football, and I’ve been training my butt off all winter and spring. I thought I had no worries. I wasn’t going to get it.”

That bullish attitude faded days later, when he awoke feeling sluggish and short of breath. That night, his body temperature climbed to 104.

“It was the sickest I’ve ever felt,” said Boselli, who continued to feel shortness of breath and fatigue for about week and a half.

In Italy, Paulo Dybala, an Argentine player with Juventus, described his own unnerving experience dealing with respiratory symptoms.

“I would try to train and was short of breath after five or 10 minutes,” Dybala said in an interview with the Argentine Football Association, “and we realized something was not right.”

Panagis Galiatsatos, a pulmonary physician and assistant professor at Johns Hopkins, said that, like much about the disease, the long-term consequences for athletes who contract it are not fully understood. Athletes, though, represent interesting case studies for doctors, given their generally good baseline health and nuanced awareness of their own bodies.

“Patients who are athletes, I love them, because they will pick up subtle changes sometimes way before even the tests identify a disease,” Galiatsatos said.

Galiatsatos singled out three complications from Covid-19 that could be of particular concern to athletes.

First, coronavirus patients, like anyone with a serious respiratory infection, were at risk for long-term lung issues. He often saw patients “who three months ago had a bad virus and still can’t get their breathing back to normal.”

“Sometimes a bad virus creates an airway disease similar to an asthma,” he said. “They can ravage the lungs, where the lungs were rebuilt, but not well, and patients are stuck with an asthmalike reactive airway disease situation.”

Paulo Dybala, center, of Juventus, described severe respiratory problems.

Another complication that Galiatsatos considered particularly concerning to athletes, and one that experts were still trying to wrap their heads around, was the high incidence of blood clots that doctors were seeing in coronavirus patients. People diagnosed with blood clots, and prescribed blood thinners, are typically discouraged from participating in contact sports.

Finally, Galiatsatos said people unfortunate enough to be placed in intensive care could deal with “I.C.U. acquired weakness.” Patients placed on ventilators and confined to a bed often lost between 2 and 10 percent of their muscle mass per day, he said.

Ben O’Donnell, a triathlete who lives in Anoka County, Minn., lost 45 pounds during a four-week hospital stay during which he was placed on a ventilator and a short-term life support machine.

O’Donnell, 38, a former college football player who completed an Ironman race a couple of years ago and was planning on doing another this fall, said he was pulled back from the brink of death after struggling with dangerously low levels of oxygen and kidney and liver failure in the intensive care unit.

Ben O’Donnell, an Ironman triathlon competitor, was on a ventilator after contracting the disease caused by the virus. He still has lingering effects.

O’Donnell was told he may never regain his full lung capacity.

In mid-February, in anticipation of ramping up his training, O’Donnell had completed a two-day, comprehensive physical exam and received a clean bill of health. Doctors believe he contracted the virus five days later.

Back at home after his harrowing month in the hospital, O’Donnell has set his sights on competing in an Ironman race in Arizona this fall. He acknowledged it was a lofty goal.

“They’re not sure if I’ll ever get full lung capacity back,” he said. “I may or may not.”

Had he not contracted the virus, O’Donnell, an executive at a chemical company, would be doing three runs, three swims and three bicycle workouts per week at this point in his training cycle. But the virus derailed his life plans.

After returning home, he needed a walker just to go out to the mailbox at the end of the driveway. In his first attempt to exercise, two days after he left the hospital, he walked for seven minutes at a speed of 1.2 miles per hour using supplemental oxygen. He has been trying to add a minute of time, and a bit of speed, each day.

O’Donnell said he was struggling with “a fair amount of doubt” about his ability to get back in shape for the race. But he has motivated himself with the secondary goal of raising money for coronavirus relief, and he has been repeating the same mantra ever since he was struggling in his hospital bed: “Don’t stop. Don’t quit. Keep moving forward.”

This mentality has helped other athletes who have been hit with serious symptoms.

The 29 days Tsang Yee-ting spent in the hospital were the most she had been away from a karate mat since being introduced to the sport at age 6. A member of the Hong Kong national team, Tsang, 27, contracted the coronavirus in March while preparing to qualify for the Summer Olympics.

For the next month, she battled a range of symptoms, the worst a searing pain that engulfed the lower half of her body. Walking was a struggle. Lying down offered no relief. As she fought a virus that doctors were still learning about, “all sorts of thoughts” about her body and about her future spiraled through her mind, she said.

“Of course I was worried,” Tsang said. “Karate is my life.”

But even as the virus and isolation from her family levied an “emotional toll” on her, Tsang resolved to stay as active as possible to keep herself sane. She acquired elastic bands and, on days when her body felt strong enough, completed mini-workouts in the tight confines of her hospital room."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/sport...letes.html
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 07:06 PM by jedclampett.)
07-01-2020 07:00 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
.

The Wall Street Journal

Nobody in Sports Knows the Long-Term Effects of Covid-19

Athletes are returning to their sports uncertain about what happens if they contract the virus—or what happens next

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-long-...1593161922
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020 07:05 PM by jedclampett.)
07-01-2020 07:05 PM
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IamYourDad Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
These players should listen to medical professionals who actually know something about the virus. It has been causing complications to perfectly healthy people, and even NFL players such as Ezekiel Elliot I heard we’re having these complications. Those complications can have lasting effects on your lungs. They’re free to do what they want, but be careful what you wish for
07-01-2020 07:22 PM
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maybeimhere Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
I do want to echo the thoughts about it still being very early with not nearly enough data to declare anything final about this virus, but that also applies to nonsense like "life-long lung damage." The longest people have had this disease is 6-7 months, at the most. Maybe chill a little with that.
07-01-2020 08:15 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
50,000 new U.S. cases today, by far the highest since the pandemic started.

It was announcd today that Americans will not be permitted to fly to Europe, due to the severity of the Covid-19 pandemic in the U.S.
07-01-2020 08:53 PM
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8BitPirate Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 08:53 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  50,000 new U.S. cases today, by far the highest since the pandemic started.

It was announcd today that Americans will not be permitted to fly to Europe, due to the severity of the Covid-19 pandemic in the U.S.

It's not the cases that matter but the hospitalizations. 07-coffee3
07-01-2020 09:01 PM
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TIGERCITY Online
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 09:01 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 08:53 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  50,000 new U.S. cases today, by far the highest since the pandemic started.

It was announcd today that Americans will not be permitted to fly to Europe, due to the severity of the Covid-19 pandemic in the U.S.

It's not the cases that matter but the hospitalizations. 07-coffee3

It ain't about either it's about me. I'm a real American concerned about my real freedoms. I own the outdoors and if you don't like it stay in your house.

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07-01-2020 09:14 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 09:14 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 09:01 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 08:53 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  50,000 new U.S. cases today, by far the highest since the pandemic started.

It was announcd today that Americans will not be permitted to fly to Europe, due to the severity of the Covid-19 pandemic in the U.S.

It's not the cases that matter but the hospitalizations. 07-coffee3

It ain't about either it's about me. I'm a real American concerned about my real freedoms. I own the outdoors and if you don't like it stay in your house.

Signed,
A real American and a Real Man

That's a funny statement: "I own the outdoors." 03-woohoo
07-01-2020 09:32 PM
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goodknightfl Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
I expect like many nasty flu strains, it takes weeks to a couple of months for the body to completely recover. I wouldn't be surprised to find out it leaves behind problems that are much more long lasting. Bottom line is eventually most of us will end up getting it, Vaccine or no vaccine. It isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. Many of the flu strains we get today, are off shoots of the 1918 Spanish flu.
07-02-2020 06:46 AM
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StillJonesing Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-01-2020 05:07 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 01:27 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 12:35 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  They're young adults and they feel impervious. After the first one or two dies due to complications you'll see them freak out.

I've read studies that even 50% of asymptomatic people have lung damage and scaring. Some young people develop chronic fatigue syndrome that can affect the rest of their life, others have clots and damage their heart, or need amputations. A couple of examples of that and you might see a change in mentality but probably not. Football players play a sport that gives them brain damage so they are probably dumb enough to think that way but the reality is it could impact a football career if you don't have lung damage.

Rudy Gobert I read had damage in the blood vessels or nerves in his feet and no sense of smell still I was reading. There are potential cost even if the risk is low of dying to their age group that could cost them careers or possibly affect the quality of life the rest of their life. I don't think I'd be playing around with trying to catch when they estimate immunity is only around 4 months for people that don't get really sick. It's not worth it especially with little known about the longterm effects.

I'm calling BS on this.

If asymptomatic people were requiring amputations and your other list of various and sundry maladies, I'm pretty sure the first I heard of it wouldn't come from the AAC board.

And I searched the Rudy Gobert thing.

1. The most recent thing I could find was from April.
2. He's been cleared to play in the NBA... alleged nerve damage and all.
3. His lost sense of smell and taste were just temporary symptoms from when he first got it.

So I can see you're one of those people who like to hear about all bad things. Doesn't make it so.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic...amage.html

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing...b9ba1.html

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/coronaviru...-symptoms/

Dozens of other articles as well I could post. These guys are athletes, they need their lungs to function highly last I checked.

As far as Gobert.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/25...t-100-perc

https://www.tctmd.com/news/covid-19-auto...-spotlight

Endothelial Damage, that's blood vessel damage.

Blood clots and amputations.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronaviru...-1.4907290

There are a lot of issues that could directly affect athletes as well as average joes regardless if it doesn't kill you it could end your career easy or diminish your quality of life the rest of your life. They are just learning the potential long term affects so perhaps it's smart to avoid it if at all possible until more is known. Meanwhile you got idiots having covid parties in Alabama to see who can catch it first.
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2020 09:02 AM by StillJonesing.)
07-02-2020 08:47 AM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-02-2020 08:47 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 05:07 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 01:27 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(07-01-2020 12:35 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  They're young adults and they feel impervious. After the first one or two dies due to complications you'll see them freak out.

I've read studies that even 50% of asymptomatic people have lung damage and scaring. Some young people develop chronic fatigue syndrome that can affect the rest of their life, others have clots and damage their heart, or need amputations. A couple of examples of that and you might see a change in mentality but probably not. Football players play a sport that gives them brain damage so they are probably dumb enough to think that way but the reality is it could impact a football career if you don't have lung damage.

Rudy Gobert I read had damage in the blood vessels or nerves in his feet and no sense of smell still I was reading. There are potential cost even if the risk is low of dying to their age group that could cost them careers or possibly affect the quality of life the rest of their life. I don't think I'd be playing around with trying to catch when they estimate immunity is only around 4 months for people that don't get really sick. It's not worth it especially with little known about the longterm effects.

I'm calling BS on this.

If asymptomatic people were requiring amputations and your other list of various and sundry maladies, I'm pretty sure the first I heard of it wouldn't come from the AAC board.

And I searched the Rudy Gobert thing.

1. The most recent thing I could find was from April.
2. He's been cleared to play in the NBA... alleged nerve damage and all.
3. His lost sense of smell and taste were just temporary symptoms from when he first got it.

So I can see you're one of those people who like to hear about all bad things. Doesn't make it so.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic...amage.html

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing...b9ba1.html

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/coronaviru...-symptoms/

Dozens of other articles as well I could post. These guys are athletes, they need their lungs to function highly last I checked.

As far as Gobert.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/25...t-100-perc

https://www.tctmd.com/news/covid-19-auto...-spotlight

Endothelial Damage, that's blood vessel damage.

Blood clots and amputations.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronaviru...-1.4907290

There are a lot of issues that could directly affect athletes as well as average joes regardless if it doesn't kill you it could end your career easy or diminish your quality of life the rest of your life. They are just learning the potential long term affects so perhaps it's smart to avoid it if at all possible until more is known. Meanwhile you got idiots having covid parties in Alabama to see who can catch it first.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2938...-diagnosis

"Overall, he said, "I feel like I'm in good shape," and that he doesn't feel more tired than usual."

"Describing his symptoms a month and a half ago, Gobert said he had some "little things" that scared him, such as feeling as if he had "ants in my toes." He said he had only "very slight" inflammation in his lungs when he went running in the mountains two weeks after his diagnosis."

"Worse than the physical symptoms, he said, were the stress and fear that came with the virus."

Just keep shoveling the manure that Rudy Gobert is on death's doorstep.
07-02-2020 09:31 AM
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StillJonesing Offline
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-02-2020 09:31 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Just keep shoveling the manure that Rudy Gobert is on death's doorstep.

Where did I say that? I said he lost his smell and had damage to his feet which is true. He honestly was the least of my examples which is why you focus on him I'm sure. I only posted that because he was one of the first to get it and recently talking about it and could put a face on some of the side affects. Smell is something people don't think about but it kind of important to quality of life also I don't care to have "ants in my toes" either , hey but go try to suck up this virus. The broader point is you don't know what you are signing up for potentially for the rest of your life.

You completely ignored all the other more serious points of my post or studies about blood clots or where 50% of ASYMPTOMATIC people they say have lung damage and scaring. Do you really think a professional athlete is going to come out and say, yeah I can't breathe as well or am always tired now to the public or teams listening? That IS their career at stake and unfortunately I think there is a good chance we will find there are consequences especially to athletes who need a high level of lung function. I know of people that one now has heart failure and is on 2 drugs for it, and one that's still on oxygen 24/7 since march and they are both 38 years old they lived but not without consequences. It's not something to play around with trying to catch IMO.
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2020 10:13 AM by StillJonesing.)
07-02-2020 09:53 AM
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RE: OT: Many players want to catch COVID now, not in the season, experts discuss
(07-02-2020 09:53 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(07-02-2020 09:31 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Just keep shoveling the manure that Rudy Gobert is on death's doorstep.

Where did I say that? I said he lost his smell and had damage to his feet which is true. He honestly was the least of my examples which is why you focus on him I'm sure. I only posted that because he was one of the first to get it and recently talking about it and could put a face on some of the side affects. Smell is something people don't think about but it kind of important to quality of life also I don't care to have "ants in my toes" either , hey but go try to suck up this virus. The broader point is you don't know what you are signing up for potentially for the rest of your life.

You completely ignored all the other more serious points of my post or studies about blood clots or where 50% of ASYMPTOMATIC people they say have lung damage and scaring. Do you really think a professional athlete is going to come out and say, yeah I can't breathe as well or am always tired now to the public or teams listening? That IS their career at stake and unfortunately I think there is a good chance we will find there are consequences especially to athletes who need a high level of lung function. I know of people that one now has heart failure and is on 2 drugs for it, and one that's still on oxygen 24/7 since march and they are both 38 years old they lived but not without consequences. It's not something to play around with trying to catch IMO.

This 50% of asymptomatic is still nonsense. No one has any idea how many asymptomatic people there are. Who is "they" in they say? Your links are all secondary or tertiary quotes of unidentifiable stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for wearing masks and getting vaccinated when one becomes available, but there's no need to fear monger.
07-02-2020 11:12 AM
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