(07-01-2020 03:23 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:31 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:52 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Let's be real this is not your dad's Big East only have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown as original members.

No conference games against Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc.

UConn will still have new (and far) teams at home and away including Butler, Creighton, and Xavier

The BIG EAST has six founding original members of the league within the conference. In comparison, here are the other power conferences for comparison:

ACC: six (South Carolina and Maryland are no longer members)
B1G: six (Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue, Wisconsin, Michigan)
Big 12: eight (Texas A&M, Colorado, Missouri and Nebraska are no longer members)
PAC: 4 (California, Washington, Oregon and Oregon State)
SEC: ten (Georgia Tech, Tulane and Sewanee are no longer members)

Syracuse and Pittsburgh were staples of the BIG EAST, and, unfortunately, are no longer members, yes. Louisville was also an elite BE program and brand too, even before and after its scandal. However, Butler made more national championship games this decade than Pittsburgh had in its history (and has been much better in the BE than PITT has been in the ACC). West Virginia's basketball success has been replicated by Xavier, in tournament appearances and success. Creighton, with its fan support and top-25 potential, is a more than suitable replacement long-term.

At the end of the day, yes - the Big East lost elite-level programs in Syracuse, Louisville and UConn; UConn has come home. The league lost strong upper-tier programs in PITT, WVU and Notre Dame, but those have been replaced by Butler, Creighton and Xavier, with no harm or loss. However, the league also lost a number of bottom-tier teams (at time) in Rutgers and USF, which has also given rise to programs like Seton Hall and Providence. Overall - the league is much more balanced and overall competitive. Now having two anchors at the top in Villanova and UConn, with an incredibly strong and consistent middle, and singular bottom (DePaul, but they at least have been recruiting very well) is well-rounded for the future growth of the league.

It's also worth noting that UConn ticket sales are soaring. Huge win/win for the BIG EAST and UConn.

I could be wrong but I count five original members. Villanova joined in 1980

If I recall correctly Villanova was officially on board prior to the first season tipping off but had to complete a final season in the now-A10 first. Not including them in discussion of the original membership is semantics at best. I include Pitt in the original group as well even though they joined a couple years into things.

I am curious if the Big East would possibly add UMass or SLU as a 12th member. UMass and their history seem like a perfect fit for the Big East in my opinion. SLU could help bridge the gap to Creighton and are another private religious institution.

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(07-02-2020 12:11 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  I am curious if the Big East would possibly add UMass or SLU as a 12th member. UMass and their history seem like a perfect fit for the Big East in my opinion. SLU could help bridge the gap to Creighton and are another private religious institution.

The challenges for SLU and UMass are more their present-ry than their history.

(07-02-2020 12:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 12:11 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  I am curious if the Big East would possibly add UMass or SLU as a 12th member. UMass and their history seem like a perfect fit for the Big East in my opinion. SLU could help bridge the gap to Creighton and are another private religious institution.

The challenges for SLU and UMass are more their present-ry than their history.

Yea, I expect the Big East stands at 11 members for the foreseeable future. I don't think Providence and UConn want a third team in New England - UMass/URI being in the A10 and BC being permanently affixed at the bottom of the ACC gives UConn/Providence a leg up on everyone else nearby. Providence supposedly wasn't even totally wild about UConn coming back.

In the unlikely event the Big East expands again in the 20s, the short list is probably just Dayton and Saint Louis, with Saint Louis having fewer stumbling blocks in their way. Only other add I could see would be in a very goofy scenario where a Big 12 team somehow shook loose.

(07-02-2020 12:11 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  I am curious if the Big East would possibly add UMass or SLU as a 12th member. UMass and their history seem like a perfect fit for the Big East in my opinion. SLU could help bridge the gap to Creighton and are another private religious institution.

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I doubt the Big East expands further but I wouldn't mind UMass being added. I think it would help elevate the UConn UMass rivalry in other sports including football. We're already conference rivals with them in Hockey East. I also think getting back into MA could be beneficial from a market perspective for the Big East.

I would say that St. Louis and VCU are other programs that would bring in nice new markets.

I think all three programs would be elevated with Big East affiliation.

I am on record as favoring the Big East to expand to 14. My top two choices are Saint Louis and Dayton. The third could be either UMass or VCU.

DePaul was once aligned with SLU and Dayton in the Great Midwest and those two make sense for the BE on so many levels. The third team ideally would be located in a Mid-Atlantic or Northeast state. Thus UMass or VCU (though I like Duquesne, too).

I have a tough time buying the conference wading into the public school territory again beyond UConn. UConn's a legacy member, and I think the distinction of this version of the Big East is otherwise quite deliberate. Plus, I don't see UMass winning any points now that UConn's back in. Where it comes to hoops, UConn will not have UMass on the same line as them.

But, this is has been cool for the Big East. Welcome back, UConn. Also of note, maybe with the retirement of DePaul's athletic director, that program turns a corner, too.

(07-02-2020 08:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I have a tough time buying the conference wading into the public school territory again beyond UConn. UConn's a legacy member, and I think the distinction of this version of the Big East is otherwise quite deliberate. Plus, I don't see UMass winning any points now that UConn's back in. Where it comes to hoops, UConn will not have UMass on the same line as them.

But, this is has been cool for the Big East. Welcome back, UConn. Also of note, maybe with the retirement of DePaul's athletic director, that program turns a corner, too.

How she stayed in that job so long is truly baffling. I can only guess she was very well connected with the top DePaul admins and boosters or else was a really skillful organizational politicker, much better at that than she was as an AD, to keep the job so long with such poor performance by their flagship athletic program.

Reminds me of Matt Millen with the Detroit Lions in the 2000s.

(07-01-2020 08:59 AM)Blazer4Life14 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:52 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Let's be real this is not your dad's Big East only have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown as original members.

No conference games against Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc.

UConn will still have new (and far) teams at home and away including Butler, Creighton, and Xavier

Yeah, but the competition is unquestionably better than the AAC, and they’re playing other schools that are committed to having a quality basketball program. In the AAC, you only got that from Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita St., and then the occasional UCF, SMU, Temple, etc. That’s why UConn is excited. Hell, I’m excited as a CBB fan, I look forward to UConn being relevant again.

Speaking about the competition being better, what does that say about UCONN considering the were lately middle of the pack in the AAC? They are a has been. Women's hoops are another story.

(07-02-2020 09:39 AM)otown Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:59 AM)Blazer4Life14 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:52 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Let's be real this is not your dad's Big East only have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown as original members.

No conference games against Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc.

UConn will still have new (and far) teams at home and away including Butler, Creighton, and Xavier

Yeah, but the competition is unquestionably better than the AAC, and they’re playing other schools that are committed to having a quality basketball program. In the AAC, you only got that from Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita St., and then the occasional UCF, SMU, Temple, etc. That’s why UConn is excited. Hell, I’m excited as a CBB fan, I look forward to UConn being relevant again.

Speaking about the competition being better, what does that say about UCONN considering the were lately middle of the pack in the AAC? They are a has been. Women's hoops are another story.

Eh, the program was in a bad state when Ollie left. The rebuild is coming along nicely, in a normal world environment they'd be in position to spend the season on the fringe of the top-25 this coming year. I have no idea what this coming season looks like or if it even gets played, but long-term they're set up nicely to challenge for Big East titles again.

(07-02-2020 09:39 AM)otown Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:59 AM)Blazer4Life14 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:52 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Let's be real this is not your dad's Big East only have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown as original members.

No conference games against Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc.

UConn will still have new (and far) teams at home and away including Butler, Creighton, and Xavier

Yeah, but the competition is unquestionably better than the AAC, and they’re playing other schools that are committed to having a quality basketball program. In the AAC, you only got that from Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita St., and then the occasional UCF, SMU, Temple, etc. That’s why UConn is excited. Hell, I’m excited as a CBB fan, I look forward to UConn being relevant again.

Speaking about the competition being better, what does that say about UCONN considering the were lately middle of the pack in the AAC? They are a has been. Women's hoops are another story.

Kevin Ollie had 4 20 win or better seasons with 2 NCAA appearances and 1 National Championship. He had 2 really bad seasons by UConn standards and was let go. Hurley was on track to make a run back to the tourney last season. If UConn is a has been with an NCAA title from 6 years ago, I'd hate to see who else is a has been.

Regarding any potential future expansion for the Big East, I will always be in favor of anything that can add value to the conference and to its members. As many of already highlighted, the BE will undoubtedly stand pat at 11 for the foreseeable future. UConn's addition by itself adds value to more conference games, a bump to 20-conference games, more OOC games (television purposes), more BET games, a NE-centered program (w/ NYC exposure/following) and an elite national championship-winning athletics program. In addition, UConn's inclusion to eleven members now - in theory - also elevates the average number of bids annually and/or their seeds (again, in theory).

Many will argue and support that any future addition to the BE needs to be similar to UConn (a home run, undeniably valuable addition). I personally believe, over time, the BE can still add value to the conference by adding strength to its middle (in the form of a UD, SLU, VCU, etc.). Doing so would allow the league to eventually move past the round robin (thereby selectively scheduling conference games to further help boost tournament resumes), add more TV content (in form of conference and OOC games), add to the average number of tournament bids annually (also possible to help seeds) and, finally, add to the number of sessions to be held at the BET at MSG. IMO, any future addition does not need to have a national championship pedigree like UConn - the BE already has four different programs that have won NCs (Nova, UConn, G'Town and Marquette). What any new member needs to do, however, is demonstrate a consistent ability to make the tournament (with occasional runs), have modern facilities (every BE program has access to arena that is 9k/10k) and have strong fan support (not just for home games, but also ability to travel for road games and BET - this is one of many reasons Creighton was added originally).

Dayton/Saint Louis/VCU are each on that path already. They are successful basketball-first programs that are not already boosted by a power basketball conference and have shown they can be competitive without the banner of one. If they continue those trajectories, I would not be surprised to see one (or more) of them in the BE by the mid-2020's, possibly. The good news is that even if one of them were to choose to move to the AAC (and who knows if those schools would make that move), the BE has now firmly and clearly established a pecking order where it can grab a non-football AAC school, if it so desired. This might very well be why the AAC has not added a non-football member to replace UConn yet (fear of potentially losing that member, long-term, again to the BE).

Regardless, it will be fun and exciting to watch programs in the coming years invest and continue to grow. It is undeniable that there are non-power conference programs putting in the work and effort to get there one day. It is good for the fans, it is good for the schools and it is good for the competition within college basketball.

(07-01-2020 08:59 AM)Blazer4Life14 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:52 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Let's be real this is not your dad's Big East only have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown as original members.

No conference games against Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc.

UConn will still have new (and far) teams at home and away including Butler, Creighton, and Xavier

Yeah, but the competition is unquestionably better than the AAC, and they’re playing other schools that are committed to having a quality basketball program. In the AAC, you only got that from Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita St., and then the occasional UCF, SMU, Temple, etc. That’s why UConn is excited. Hell, I’m excited as a CBB fan, I look forward to UConn being relevant again.

First of all, the AAC was not responsible for UConn's irrelevance. The AAC is a power basketball conference that earns multiple bids every year with several teams capable of challenging for a title. The Big East has no more programs that are national powers than the AAC does...Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton, St. John's, and DePaul are no more national powers than the middle of the AAC. They find a nut here and there, and that's it. There's no consistency at all. They're living off ancient history and having been aligned for four decades with Villanova and Georgetown (of the remaining members) + Marquette.

UConn's irrelevance was their own doing with Kevin Ollie, who incidentally had a significantly better winning percentage than the two coaches that preceded Jim Calhoun. UConn is an athletic department drowning in debt because of their own mistakes (Pasqualoni & Diaco being chief), and they're not going to return to national prominence in MBB anymore than their FB team is going to become Notre Dame as a football independent.

I look forward to treating them like the FCS program they are and dropping 60 on them during our buy game in a few years.

(07-01-2020 11:06 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:11 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:05 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Remember when this news was broke late on a Friday night by some random, no-name website?


As a fan neutral to the Big East, this is great for college basketball. Even greater if Xavier/Dayton becomes a Big East rivalry one day -- the league could use some bad blood.

If Dayton isn't getting invited to the Big East after a season where they could have won the national championship (we'll never know if they would have), they'll likely never get invited. I bet the league is going to be content with the 11-team, double round robin for quite some time.

College presidents won't invite a program based on one spectacular season. Dayton's argument was and continues to be that they're a Catholic institution with consistent basketball excellence, strong fan support and geographic congruity with the rest of the conference. Last year's run is a cherry on the sundae, but if they went .500 in whatever passes for this season, it wouldn't move the needle either. They are who they are.

But I agree with you that the move toward 20-game conference slates and UConn's return slams the door on expansion for the foreseeable future. Dayton's in the A10 for the long haul, unless at some point they and St. Louis (and possibly Duquesne) try to gin up a spiritual successor to the Great Midwest, but that's just fantasy realignment talk. You'd never see that on a board like this.

Well, Butler got invited more or less on two excellent seasons. Dayton has a stronger argument than Butler overall as a program for sure.

Congrats UConn! Any update for FB on 09/03?

(07-02-2020 03:19 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  UConn's irrelevance was their own doing with Kevin Ollie, who incidentally had a significantly better winning percentage than the two coaches that preceded Jim Calhoun.

Ollie's a funny case. With a national championship, three AAC title game appearances, and an AAC championship, he somehow managed to be both the most successful coach in AAC history and get himself fired.

Congrats to UCONN

(07-02-2020 03:19 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:59 AM)Blazer4Life14 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:52 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Let's be real this is not your dad's Big East only have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown as original members.

No conference games against Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc.

UConn will still have new (and far) teams at home and away including Butler, Creighton, and Xavier

Yeah, but the competition is unquestionably better than the AAC, and they’re playing other schools that are committed to having a quality basketball program. In the AAC, you only got that from Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita St., and then the occasional UCF, SMU, Temple, etc. That’s why UConn is excited. Hell, I’m excited as a CBB fan, I look forward to UConn being relevant again.

First of all, the AAC was not responsible for UConn's irrelevance. The AAC is a power basketball conference that earns multiple bids every year with several teams capable of challenging for a title. The Big East has no more programs that are national powers than the AAC does...Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton, St. John's, and DePaul are no more national powers than the middle of the AAC. They find a nut here and there, and that's it. There's no consistency at all. They're living off ancient history and having been aligned for four decades with Villanova and Georgetown (of the remaining members) + Marquette.

UConn's irrelevance was their own doing with Kevin Ollie, who incidentally had a significantly better winning percentage than the two coaches that preceded Jim Calhoun. UConn is an athletic department drowning in debt because of their own mistakes (Pasqualoni & Diaco being chief), and they're not going to return to national prominence in MBB anymore than their FB team is going to become Notre Dame as a football independent.

I look forward to treating them like the FCS program they are and dropping 60 on them during our buy game in a few years.

As somebody with personal/family ties to Cincinnati and Memphis in the AAC and DePaul and Georgetown in the Big East — and who wants both leagues to fare well and who views them both objectively and reasonably — I am tempted to respond to the absurdity, inaccuracy and bias of the below comment. But I'm prepping for a beer session and don't have the mental energy at this moment.

Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton, St. John's, and DePaul are no more national powers than the middle of the AAC. They find a nut here and there, and that's it. There's no consistency at all. They're living off ancient history and having been aligned for four decades with Villanova and Georgetown (of the remaining members) + Marquette.

(07-02-2020 03:48 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 03:19 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:59 AM)Blazer4Life14 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:52 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Let's be real this is not your dad's Big East only have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown as original members.

No conference games against Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc.

UConn will still have new (and far) teams at home and away including Butler, Creighton, and Xavier

Yeah, but the competition is unquestionably better than the AAC, and they’re playing other schools that are committed to having a quality basketball program. In the AAC, you only got that from Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita St., and then the occasional UCF, SMU, Temple, etc. That’s why UConn is excited. Hell, I’m excited as a CBB fan, I look forward to UConn being relevant again.

First of all, the AAC was not responsible for UConn's irrelevance. The AAC is a power basketball conference that earns multiple bids every year with several teams capable of challenging for a title. The Big East has no more programs that are national powers than the AAC does...Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton, St. John's, and DePaul are no more national powers than the middle of the AAC. They find a nut here and there, and that's it. There's no consistency at all. They're living off ancient history and having been aligned for four decades with Villanova and Georgetown (of the remaining members) + Marquette.

UConn's irrelevance was their own doing with Kevin Ollie, who incidentally had a significantly better winning percentage than the two coaches that preceded Jim Calhoun. UConn is an athletic department drowning in debt because of their own mistakes (Pasqualoni & Diaco being chief), and they're not going to return to national prominence in MBB anymore than their FB team is going to become Notre Dame as a football independent.

I look forward to treating them like the FCS program they are and dropping 60 on them during our buy game in a few years.

As somebody with personal/family ties to Cincinnati and Memphis in the AAC and DePaul and Georgetown in the Big East — and who wants both leagues to fare well and who views them both objectively and reasonably — I am tempted to respond to the absurdity, inaccuracy and bias of the below comment. But I'm prepping for a beer session and don't have the mental energy at this moment.

Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton, St. John's, and DePaul are no more national powers than the middle of the AAC. They find a nut here and there, and that's it. There's no consistency at all. They're living off ancient history and having been aligned for four decades with Villanova and Georgetown (of the remaining members) + Marquette.

Providence - has greatly benefitted from the ACC teams leaving; they're actually in their best run in program history having made 5 tourneys (none past the Rd of 32) in 6 years (excluding 2020). Before this run, made the tourney 4 times in 20 years.

Seton Hall - like Providence, has benefitted from the reduced competition in the Big East, having made 4 tourneys in a row (excluding 2020), but 2 tourneys in the 15 years prior.

Depaul - 2 tourneys in the past 20 years.

Creighton - Since moving to the Big East, 3 tourneys in 6 years, the last two out in the first round. Before that in the MVC, made the tourney 9 times in the previous 20 years, only twice getting out of the first weekend.

St. John's - 5 tourneys in the past 20 years

So tell me how those schools are some sort of national power.

(07-02-2020 09:33 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 08:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I have a tough time buying the conference wading into the public school territory again beyond UConn. UConn's a legacy member, and I think the distinction of this version of the Big East is otherwise quite deliberate. Plus, I don't see UMass winning any points now that UConn's back in. Where it comes to hoops, UConn will not have UMass on the same line as them.

But, this is has been cool for the Big East. Welcome back, UConn. Also of note, maybe with the retirement of DePaul's athletic director, that program turns a corner, too.

How she stayed in that job so long is truly baffling. I can only guess she was very well connected with the top DePaul admins and boosters or else was a really skillful organizational politicker, much better at that than she was as an AD, to keep the job so long with such poor performance by their flagship athletic program.

Reminds me of Matt Millen with the Detroit Lions in the 2000s.

She’s a legend. Anyone who can keep their job that long with that many scandals and last place finishes is a legend. Unprecedented in college sports what she pulled off.